Jealousy

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Should jealousy exist, or is it completely irrational? Are u a jealous person?

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Jealousy? C or D

The NZ crew had some good things to say here.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Well basically I'm asking, is it ok to be jealous without good reason?

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Well no, why would it be?

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:09 (twenty-three years ago)

What if it's an emotion you cannot help?

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Well then that's a pisser.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:11 (twenty-three years ago)

People need to quit like analysing jealously and just like "feel it".

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I just wanted some feedback on it & see what other people felt about it. It's a difficult emotion to come to terms with when there is no rational reason to feel that way and you just do.

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:15 (twenty-three years ago)

you could say the exact same things about love, i guess. don't dwell on it, there's nothing you can do about it, i guess.

g-kit (g-kit), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

i guess i guess i guess. me so clever with words.

g-kit (g-kit), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I disagree - just to let yourself think "I can't help this emotion" seems to me to be a cop out. I felt this way for a long time, then realised like all things, your emotions need work on, even if you would PREFER to revel in jealously/hate/sadness whatever. And work DOES involve some analysis. A problem is keeping a grip and knowing which analysis turns into over-obsession, hopefully something I'm getting better at but god knows.

Perhaps I'm jealous of the people just letting themselves be run by their emotions. Or perhaps I'm fed up of getting hurt in the fall-out.

Sarah (starry), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I am not 'run' by a jealous emotion. It is merely lurking around & it bugs me as to it's purpose when there is absolutely no reason for it to exist.

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry if I am sounding heartless. It's just that jealousy has made me extremely miserable in the past and I don't have much time for the suggestion that it might be proof of real love or whatever (Wizard, I don't mean you were suggesting this).

Thankfully for all parties, I was neurotically jealous rather than psychotically jealous.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Sometimes it is rational, and can be a indicator of a threat to your interests. The key is to assess whether or not your sense of jealousy is springing from a realistic threat.

j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I would never act on it, don't get me wrong. It's just the whole male & female platonic friendship thing. In my opinion/experience this just does not exist in that one of the parties always wants more, whether they act on it or not.

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:34 (twenty-three years ago)

As far as I'm concerned there is no realistic threat & I don't doubt my b/f at all, but still there is always this little voice.

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah yes. Well, I think it's silly to say 'platonic male-female friensships don't exist' because I can point to many examples where they do.

On the one hand you say this and on the other you're saying there's no realistic threat. How can you believe both?

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:39 (twenty-three years ago)

They don't exist in my experience is what i'm saying. I don't think there is a realistic threat as I trust my b/f implicitly, but other females intentions are different.

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Well just cause you can't do it, doesn't mean other people can't either. Do you think your b/f would tell you if this girl came on to him?

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I think a lot of (not all but more than are admitted) platonic friendships secretly aren't on one or other side AT SOME POINT in the friendship. On the other hand I think when this is the case it either kills the friendship or burns itself out or both: the non-platonism gets sedimented over with the habits of friendship. (This is analogous to what happens when rivalry turns to friendship too).

Tom (Groke), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I am not saying it's just me that cannot do it. I mean with everybody that I know, this seems to be the case. Male & females can be friends without anything more ever happening, but that is not to say that one of the parties wouldn't want more.

Wizard, Monday, 7 October 2002 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I don't even believe that, sorry. By friends, do you mean *really close* friends, in which case maybe I can't think of examples from my own personal experience? (but I still think others manage it).

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 14:57 (twenty-three years ago)

But N. how do you know? I mean if the one who fancies or considers fancying or whatever never tells, then how can you be sure?

(I still agree that platonic friendships are possible though)

Tom (Groke), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes yes. Well I refuse to believe that say, Madchen, fancies me.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyway, if they keep it to themselves and know it's inappropriate, where is the problem?

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I think I'm extending the definition of non-platonic to include the potential of non-platonism being considered, i.e. it does not strike me as unlikely that when you first met either you or Madchen considered the other one's fanciability even if both answers were then 'no'. And following that it doesn't strike me as odd that Wizard is concerned when other girls are making those kind of 'assessments' of her boyfriend all the time, even if it's an unavoidable situation, because all it takes is for one of them not to know its inappropriate for her concerns to be justified. What I do think is that if she trusts her bf it's silly to be jealous about this.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I think I'm extending the definition of non-platonic to include the potential of non-platonism being considered, i.e. it does not strike me as unlikely that when you first met either you or Madchen considered the other one's fanciability even if both answers were then 'no'

Oh, well fair enough. I think I may even have fancied her for ten minutes.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:11 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a larger grappling of jealousy I've been dealing with for the past few months, and it's more a freefloating one, which makes it all the more obnoxious. Hrm.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Wizard, it really is useless to get all jealous over a possible situation that probably isn't going to happen. After all, YOU are your boyfriend's girl/boyfriend, not this platonic friend. Although for some couples this ain't sayin' much, it's still a waste of your energy to read into things. I have found that reading too much into things just leads to the relationship coming unraveled...

Mandee, Monday, 7 October 2002 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Jealousy: its there whether you like it or not. there's no escape HA HA HA HA!!!!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 October 2002 20:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Where've you been?
Who've you seen?
You didn't phone when you said you would!
Do you lie?
Do you try to keep in touch?
You know you could
I've tried to see your point of view
But could not hear or see for jealousy

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 October 2002 20:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Wizard, you ask if it's okay to be jealous "without good reason" when in fact, it appears that you are jealous and feel that your reasons for being so are simply not good enough. I think you'd find it more beneficial to not worry about whether or not your reasons are valid, and instead just focus on where your jealousy is coming from.

In a nutshell, all jealousy springs from insecurity. It's this very same fear that motivates people to lock their houses and cars. When people respond possessively to inanimate objects we call them bloody well clever, responsible and grown-up. When they do the same to animate objects -- specifically other people -- we suggest there must be something inherently wrong with them. Think of your jealousy as a red-flag, nothing more. It's simply telling you that you're scared.
Nonetheless, that fear can lead to tichiness in your relationship. People get scared by their s/o's behavior. They don't want to feel scared so they insist that their s/o halt the behavior. This in turn, makes the s/o feel controlled and unloved. They resist. Their resistance makes their partner feel unloved. They get angry. They start, "Iffing you really loved me..." etc. etc. Before you know it, a small scale armageddon is at hand.

I have an alternative suggestion. First of all, come to appreciate yourself. I'm sure you have numerous gifts and qualities that you bring to your boyfriend. Even if you lose him, you'll still be you, with those gifts of your own to share with another. (Which is not to suggest that the loss will be any less painful.) Second, get to know your boyfriend's platonic friend, and I mean *really* know her. Become part of the friendship. You love your boyfriend, he cares for her and by extention, you should care for that which he cares for. Obviously she must have some good qualities -- I mean, your boyfriend's got good taste, right? If their relationship is truly platonic, they are both going to love and admire your ability to rise above the primacy of your own jealousy and accept it. Meanwhile, keep an observant but not critical eye on the g/f -- she shouldn't be jealous of you. If she is, it suggests to me that she sees you as being in the place she wants to occupy, and that's a no-no in a platonic relationship. If she's truly a friend to your s/o she'll recognize how very important to him you are and she'll treat you with respect. And if the friendship is not platonic, you'll figure that out all the sooner for being "part of" the friendship as opposed to separate from. Either way, you won't be distressing yourself with imaginings.

As for the possibility that one or both of them might want more, I personally don't find that thought to be threatening. There's a whole lot more I would like to have in my life -- more money for instance, but I'm not willing to pay the risky price to rob someone to get it.

And that's my dime.

ragnfild (ragnfild), Monday, 7 October 2002 20:59 (twenty-three years ago)

That all sounds v.wise

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 08:31 (twenty-three years ago)

four months pass...
If you dislike someone/something and realise that you are jealous of them, does it invalidate your dislike completely or merely modify it?

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 11:27 (twenty-three years ago)

doesn't necessarily have to do either - the reasons you dislike them may be different to why you're jealous

(eg i hate such-and-such band because they're childish and they can't sing and i'm jealous of them because they're getting more attention than my band)

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 11:30 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
ghdfgfdc

hngfhfguj, Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm envious of d and g because they are always in your name.

what about that line MORrissey sings -- women only like me for my mind? but then they really like him, see, and why can't that be? i really like people for their minds. it becomes quite irrational!

youn, Friday, 25 June 2004 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

four months pass...
I think the slightly depressing thing was that I went to see if there was a jealousy thread and that my post above two years ago still applies to a degree.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 November 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

What prompted your search, Ned?

beanz (beanz), Monday, 15 November 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Would take a while to unpack! Let's just say on a sliding scale of things that the knowledge that you're reasonably well off and have an okay life -- no health problems, close family, tons of friends and more besides -- is not enough to tamp down the green-eyed monster when it feels like in other areas little is happening despite best efforts, and others you consider peers on many levels have seemed to find the right balance. As mentioned, a sliding scale -- in MANY areas and for many reasons, these are the kind of complaints I want to have as opposed to the ones I could be stuck with. A bout and a phase right now, it'll pass.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 November 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

You're not alone in feeling that, as I'm sure you're aware.

So-called 'negative' emotions are no worse than any others. It's what you do with it. You could be ecstatically happy and content in every way and could use that negatively, because it might stop you trying to improve things. I think there's always room for improvement. (Er... not directed at you personally btw) If being jealous can make you ambitious and your ambition isn't damaging, then jealousy is good. We've evolved with emotions because we can't survive without them. Then again, we've evolved only so we can reproduce so jealousy might just be more useful for that purpose.

beanz (beanz), Monday, 15 November 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Er... not directed at you personally btw

No worries, not taken as such! In my case, the ambitions are not damaging, the routes to achieving them laid out on the one hand and open enough to chance or surprise on the other.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 November 2004 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the part where you get the ache in your chest & then your mind starts telling you that your girlfriend, who's on a night out with her friends is up to no good with every passing chap in the nearest 5 miles.

lucifer, Monday, 15 November 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I always have trouble with my boy's past for some reason. Not really sure why, I just hate hearing about his exes!

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Monday, 15 November 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Specific jealousy is like a self fulfilling prophecy, if you act upon it your fears become real.

Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Good point, actually.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't get so jealous anymore. once when i was in a really pathetic flagging relationship, my old boyfriend would go and hang out with my arch-nemesis instead of trying to work out our problems. it drove me crazy. i doubt i would ever feel like that again, because i know its okay to be jealous, and although you can't control your significant other it really helps to feel safe to talk about your jealousy and insecurities with them and feel listened to and supported. with all that behind me, jealousy doesn't eat me up anymore.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

that won't work for everyone though.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure if I feel especially jealous towards people, certainly not if they've got a better job than me, or social life, or possessions or prospects. I fully admit that I'm to blame in the moments when life feels a little empty.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 15 November 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

what a horrible, poisonous emotion (i'm talking about jealousy in the romantic sense)

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 15 November 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

othellosy

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 15 November 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

the other jealousy thread, that N. linked to at the top, is embarassing, i'm totally cringing over what i wrote on there. i was in the throes of MAJOR jealousy when that thread was started and had absolutely no idea how to deal with it. what made jealousy unbearable for me is the guilt i used to feel - so many of us have this idea that feeling jealousy is wrong and so we feel guilty about it too. but its not the EMOTION that is wrong, its how you act on it. trying to control your partner is NOT a good way to let jealousy manifest itself. being able to talk about it honestly and have your fears allayed IS a good way to deal with it.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 15 November 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...
I find myself in a situation now re: jealousy which is causing me a lot of unhappiness. I have a close friendship with someone on the net, a message board pal, and over the years we've developed a bond of some kind. We email back and forth all day long, every day, plus IMs and phone calls. We're there for each other, offer mutual support, share a lot of personal and private stuff about our lives which we don't share with anyone else, and there's a lot of trust and affection between us. So far, so good.

But recently this friend of mine has been flirting very heavily with another girl on the same message board. I told him a while ago that this upset me a bit, and made me feel a little sidelined and humiliated even (as everyone on the MB knows we are really close friends). He says it's all in fun, a bit of a laugh, meaningless. He says they swap a few emails, and that she's cute and funny, but he doesn't talk to anyone else the way he talks to me. He says I truly am his best friend on the net, and he keeps everyone else at arms length.

I am consumed by hurt and jealousy, and I'm cross with myself because of it. I mean, this is an internet friendship so it's just words on a screen, it's not like real life friendships, right? I have no right to ask him NOT to behave the way he does, but I can't help feeling that he is being disrespectful to our friendship by doing this. Am I wrong to feel this way? How do I deal with it? I could walk away from the message board (and him) but we've been friends for five years, and I care about him very much. This hurts. Silly, I know.

Anyone got any helpful advice/shared experiences or anything?

loggedout, Friday, 4 February 2005 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not like real life friendships, right?

Of course it is.


I would distance myself from him and the message board for a while to see if I could get some fresh perspective on it.

kate/papa november (papa november), Friday, 4 February 2005 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I've been doing this week, but I'm not entirely sure what fresh perspective I am going to be able to come up with. I guess that since he knows I'm upset by this but he continues to do it anyway, I probably have a different view of what our friendship means (i.e. it means more to me than it does to him). Sad, really.

loggedout, Friday, 4 February 2005 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you want to be more than friends with him? Are you perhaps jealous that he may start dating this girl?

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Friday, 4 February 2005 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

As long as he's not treating you with any disrespect because of this other person, there should be no reason to feel the relationship is threatened.

That is, of course, on the condition that the answer you have to Pink's question is No? It certainly sounds like you value the relationship more or are perhaps expecting it to go somewhere further?

Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 4 February 2005 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

We've often talked about meeting up but since our lives are approx 12,000 apart, we've agreed it would be difficult to pursue anything romantically. In the five years we've known each other, we have both been in and out of real life relationships and have been honest with each other about those. Our friendship hasn't ever crossed over into anything inappropriate, nor would I want it to really because I value the closeness we have too much to compromise it (if that makes sense).

I don't think he would date this other girl. He says he wouldn't, anyhow. I'm still trying to fathom out exactly what it is which is causing me to be so upset - her hijacking every single thread on the message board we post on by following him round and starting flirty little chats all over the place with him, or the fact he always always responds to that, or the fact it is making me feel pushed out of his affections, or that our friendship/bond doesn't seem to be as important to him as I thought it was (although he insists it is). I don't really know.

He's loving the attention, that's for sure. He has some insecurities which make him seek attention/validation constantly, so maybe she's just bolstering his ego better than I can, or something.

Curious feeling, this.

loggedout, Friday, 4 February 2005 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)


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