Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

Later, post-Born Again-era Sabs? Eh, not so much.

except for the classic, vintage lineup's last couple albums. technical ecstasy, anyone? anyone???

There's a thread in the archive on this very subject.

Taking sides : Zeppelin or Sabbath

Taking Sides: Led Zeppelin Vol. 4 vs. Black Sabbath Vol.4

Anyways one of the best love songs of all time is "Sweet Leaf."

robert christgau

yeah, he just made my case. if there were a meter for classic, the red part would go 0 +1 +2 BLACK SABBATH.

My favorite all time UNDER-mentioned Sab songs: "Hand of Doom" "A National Acrobat" "The Thrill Of It All" "Junior's Eyes"

-- steve hise (shistee...), October 27th, 2004.

Sweat Loaf comes ridiculously close to bettering it though.

OK, unless you're really not into heavy rock or metal. Is this the case for you Myonga?

[I couldn't believe that Sabbath even deserved the classic/dud treatment, because I couldn't believe that ANYONE considered 'em duds. I was gonna post an are-you-kidding? reply immediately after my "DUD" assessment. But just before I did, I read Xgau's little blurb about "drug-impaired reaction time" and thought it would be HIGH-larious to wait awhile before changing my opinion, then finally changing it FOR REAL, and then blaming my long delay on...yep, you guessed it! It might've been funnier if I'd waited a day or two, but I've always been terribly impatient.]

Anyway, again, CLASSIC through first six albums; and even the inferior Dio and Gillan lineups produced a great LP between 'em.

Finally, one of these days I'm going to finally buy Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, just to see if they're really as bad as they're reputed.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), October 27th, 2004.

Finally, one of these days I'm going to finally buy Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, just to see if they're really as bad as they're reputed.

-- Myonga Von Bontee (scottyfield...), October 28th, 2004.

Never heard Technical Ecstacy, but Never Say Die is grebt for the:

- Cover art
- Title track
- The start of 'Air Dance'

The rest is decent, listenable stuff, just not as good as what came before (and it's got synths, not that that's necessarily a bad thing).

Please someone tell me they know the two songs on "The Ozzman Cometh" comp: "Black Sabbath" ('70 Basement Tapes) and "War Pigs" (1970 Basement Tapes).

Both of these songs are clear evidence that BIMBLE IS MORE GOTH THAN YOU.

Um there's actually more than two basement tapes on that comp (if you get the 2xcd version). Don't forget the awesome versions of "Fairies Wear Boots" and "Behind the Wall of Sleep".

I love the production of those tunes and all the alternate lyrics and verses. Total godhead.

yeah I will have to get the 2xCD version.

A goth's work is never done.

is that "war pigs" the "walpurgis" version with the satan/witch themed lyrics? i love that.

yeah that's what it is, dude.

That...

Just... No. Ugh.

<3 cindy und bert <3

Dehumanize is good too people.

heaven & hell did a dehumanizer song that was pretty good. i only knew it was dehumanizer because they put the cover to that album up on the big video screen

Probably Computer God. Maybe TV Crimes.

Back in 2007 Heaven and Hell played "After All (The Dead)", "Computer God", and "I"...the latter of which sounded really great. That song's held up very well.

I is definitely great. I don't know if they played Computer God at the Radio City show I was at.

You've got to be kidding me.

http://www.reuters.com/article/peopleNews/idUSTRE54T00420090531

Advantage: Iommi.

The reaction on dffd and probably all the other boards was "Sharon Is A Cunt"

that should infact be a poll

poll w/ one option

im sure theres x-factor viewers on ILX who like her. but someone do it to find out!

You're it Herm, i have no idea how to do it.

you click on where it says new poll
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/Poll/EnterPollInformationControllerServlet?boardid=41

Instead of that, I'll just say that the vocals have always been the least important of the idea and ethos of what is "Black Sabbath". In Sabbath, it's:

mountain-moving guitar riffs and sound > thunderous but suprisingly agile rythym section >>>>>>>>> whoever the fuck is singing the lyrics the bassist wrote. Sorry Ozzy, but you now officially suck.

If as Ozzy alleges Iommi's trying to claim "ownership" of the Sabbath name, why would he be recording and touring as Heaven and Hell?

i mean it's true but once he got on stage he had to finish what he started

Did they even consider inviting the Melvins?

Don't forget that Rock & Roll Doctor is Sabbath's own cheeseball rawk song.

I have to flinch while I admit Steven Tyler absolutely ruled - when they swung into Whole Lotta Love I got a body rush, and Walk This Way was so chaotic good I finally got it. Bettencourt was fantastic throughout and it was great to see Ron Wood having such a great time.

Also loved Ozzy’s naked emotion throughout

So the real disappointment of the day was all bands too cowardly to get a damn harmonica and give me THE WIZARD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yTZ_uEvTv0

Day: made. Kind of wish Max got some screen time on that, though.

Halestorm’s “Perry Mason” cover kinda ruled tho?
Ozzmosis was not on my bingo card, its been a minute since i heard that in the wild

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, July 6, 2025 11:53 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i’m trying to view this but all the vids have been taken down
i’m very pro-Ozzmosis and saw him on that tour
the songs are really solid, the production is hilarious, the highs are not as high as No More Tears but it’s overall more consistent
basically, i think he/they missed a golden opportunity to do an ILM ballot poll-style fake last song and play a few bars of Zombie Stomp ahead of the intro to Crazy Train.

try this one
shot from the nosebleeds unfortch but gives you a feel for it & decent quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUhPFSpw_kk

Thank you so much VG
And damn, she killed it

Very faithful cover but her voice and vocal style are perfect for this

yeah i’m def a fan after seeing their set, and her guest vox in the supergroup

this is Lzzy w the supergroup incl Jake E Lee doing Ultimate Sin (also v good)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok5JpWdg7AY

Well, damn.

Likewise i am instantly a fan and want to hear her/their originnal material right away.

I got a little misty seeing Jake on Ultimate Sin.

same! esp after he was in that awful shooting last year.

Awesome to see Mike Bordin in that supergroup!

right? also props to Nuno for some pretty tight guitaring through that pretty varied set.

watching Pantera now.
Phil sounds like he’s seen better days, and had all the excitement of one recently electroshocked. Charlie Benante & Zakk Wylde made the set really, Phil wasnt giving a whole lot (but also fuck him forever anyway)

Tool were perfect. Rewatching it, they're so mind-bogglingly precise yet groovy live, but we NEVER get pro-shot footage like this. Seamlessly going from Forty Six and Two, into Hand of Doom (my fave Sabs track, so it wrecked me), and then a scorching Ænima. Tee hee. Seriously though, they were on fire, and Maynard sung the hell out of Hand of Doom.

yeah 100 agree. i love it when they’re so locked in like that

and Hand of Doom is such a perfect choice — like GNR doing Never Say Die, you really feel their Sabbath dna when the cover song the band fits so well

Tom Arraya = thrash Santa <3

Stuart Maconie did a Sabbath Freakzone last Sunday, including lots of interesting cover versions:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002f7cb

I love that they had to fly out so many giant metal drum kits for just three songs apiece.

yeah i was fascinated by all the setups. the rotating stage was a great idea - mr veg said they did something that for LiveAid back in the day

Pretty great:

https://www.metalsucks.net/2025/07/08/black-sabbaths-back-to-the-beginning-raised-nearly-200-million-for-charity-and-local-hospitals/

fucking awesome!!

That’s amazing

o_O!

guess I was on my own enjoying Steven Tyler

xps a third of that is enough for the Acorns children’s hospice in Birmingham to operate for 4 years just from this donation - amazing stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e9HorPz4wM

I wonder if he's still sitting on his throne?

Man Iommi and Geezer are in such fine form. And these days it's more exciting to hear some like Ward who's from another era and has a unique feel than an amazing and tight drummer from the click & youtube era (similar to Lars).

The thing that strikes me most about Ward's drumming is he is just a tad behind the beat, like Scott Asheton in the Stooges. Duke Ellington considered being slightly behind the beat the essence of swing, and thise guys fuckingn SWING.

The Charlie Watts factor too, I'd argue.

Ward swung way harder than Watts.

That I won't argue against!

I think behind the beat is relative to who you're playing with, you can't have everybody behind the beat or else that's not swinging, it's dragging. Same for the reverse.

But yeah, my main takeaway from that set was that Ward was suuuper behind the best in a very confident fashion.

Jazz drummers will talk about certain bassists being very ahead of the beat, like Ray Brown, which let the drummer lay back and create a wide-feeling beat (that the lead voice could lay back on and still have a sense of propulsion). Or, Tony Williams being pretty on top of the beat and wanting the bassist to play even more on top.

But yeah, for backbeat music laying back gives it a sense of weight and groove (essential to Sabbath for sure), I just think it's contextual based on the music and what everyone else is doing.

Scott or UMS or somebody else in a Mott thread made a great point about the lost art of Brit drummers of that era (Ward, Watts, Fleetwood, Buffin etc.), particularly their dues paying in wedding bands, youth club combos and the like allowing them to get a feel for tons of styles and building from there.

The march of time. Try to find a rock drummer who at some point hasn't listened to Metallica, et. al. since then.

This is a great breakdown of Bill's style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkL05mggaCM

Great view from the side of the stage at BTTB if you see how it all works together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLMjV4nLS8

Went down a Ozzy/Sabbath YT rabbit hole last night and discovered this live performance of "Over the Mountain" with Randy Rhodes that I didn't know existed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57k3AezB2HE

I love that montage over “sabbra cadabbra” at the start of their set. Bittersweet

that Bill Ward drumeo video is great, thx Elvis!

i borrowed Martin Popoff’s “Black Sabbath: Doom Let Loose” from the library. Kind of a kooky writer, but his enthusiasm for the subject is undeniable & has a lot of great primary source material. i’m already well hooked by Ch 2.

Farmers in Northern Scotlsnd pelting the lads with pennies heated over an open flame!? ozzy said they stuck to yr skin. ugh. now that is some real creative effort. Color me impressed lol