Coldcut Journeys By DJ, classic or dud

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I'm leaning towards dud.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

It's kind of an ex-classic. At the time it sounded great (well the first 20 minutes did, after that it coasted nicely), now I'd probably not listen to it. I'm not sure whether that's because I've changed, or because the mid-90s music on it doesn't stand up that well.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I still reckon that its decent - I've noticed that since the re-release their seems to have been a bit of a backlash against it that I don't quite understand. I find it strange that people who heap praise upon 2 many DJs + DJ Rupture criticize this for being eclectic for eclectics sake, or a bit of a gimmick. Still, I guess that it ultimately comes down to taste - I love the coldcut and DJ Rupture, but find the 2 many DJs a bit grating for the novelty aspect!

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't listened to it for ages, but then it's just about the wrong age at the moment, isn't it?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I only got it as a present a few months back when it was re-issued. I don't think the music stands up very well really, also the cut up "i challenge you" samples really really didn't stand the test of time. I'm not sure it ever really does anything fun either, I mean it's all well and good building the tension but does it ever really go off? I don't think so, certainly not in the way 2 Many DJs does, ie up and down and up again through Soulgrabber and all the way on to La Rock.

Yeah I suspect "wrong age" is very on the money.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Like so much Ninja Tune stuff, it's just far too TASTEFUL for its own good. I suppose it was wide-ranging and original for its time (feel free to take me to task on this one, I can't verify this in the slightest!) but it gets dull to these ears very quickly. The first fifteen minutes or so still sound sublime, but after that it goes off the boil a bit and, as Ronan says, never really seems to go off on one.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont listen to it much these days but for fucks sake - total classic, whats wrong with you if you think otherwise?! it blew my mind a lot more at the time than 'as heard on radio soulwax' pleased me last year - favourite bits are many including the 'Han Do Jin' intro from Depth Charge, the Photek/Truper track over the 'wiki wiki' song , Plastikman's 'FUK' dropped over Jedi Knights (Middleton rules)'s 'Noddy Holder', the Joanna Law acapella over Luke Slater's 7th Plain, the Jello Biafra 'Martial Law' speech, Weatherall mix of Red Snapper leading into Dr Who theme and DJ Food's 'The Dusk' is great...nice outro too

i agree, to slag this off for being 'eclectic for eclectic's sake' (i think Coldcut's broad range of taste and styles is more intuitive than that, but then i think all mix CDs are calculated and whats wrong with that anyway?) or even sounding dated is a nonsense really...sure these things kind of burn themselves out soon, esp. if you love them as much as i did at the time and perhaps the same thing will happen to 2 Many DJs or the Avalanches mixes but they're still dance/club music history as much as the Coldcut mix but not really any more reverential for me

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

also, whereas 'as heard on radio soulwax' is unquestionably designed as a great party mix, '70 minutes of madness' is not - its designed as a general listening experience and exploration - granted this leaves it harder to pidgeonhole and its even frustrating that as Matt says, the first 15-20 minutes are probably the most full-on part of it with the dub and drum n bass followe by techno mixing, and you could definitely dance to that as much as Vitalic or whatever else...but then yeh an enforced lull sets in, everything goes weird - the direction of the mix is totally shifted and you're somewhere else...i dont really see that as a flaw as such - as long as you remember that its strictly not a dance mix

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

this earlier thread may be of interest in light of comments posted so far (includes Tom and jess on Coldcut)
Taking Sides: Gold Teeth Thief vs 2ManyDJs

― zebedee, Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

if COldcut were DJing in a backroom of a club...you know, like an alternative or supposed 'chill out' area i think this mix is perfect in that context...especially if its billed as Coldcut 'live' then it works...for me anyway

alternatively its just something imaginative/inspiring to listen to at home, either after a night out or just own your own whilst ironing, heh...at least it was back in 1997

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically I don't think a mix is any good unless it's got loads of pop songs, is what I was trying to say in that thread.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, thats fair enough! sorry, for a minute then it was like someone was asking me what purpose is there me being alive and i got all flustered

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

well i disagree with that, as decent claude young or jeff mills set shows...

as for coldcut, well, no, i dont like it, but then i dont really like 2manydjs either. with 2manydjs the pop fizz is somehow fizzled out and it just becomes a sludge, with coldcut there never was a fizz.

the ironic thing is, all this trip-hop affliliated midpaced 97 era stuff, it sounds brown to me. now, i love to wear brown, but brown music? no!

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i got this at the time but lent it to a mate who's tape recorder chewed it. subsequently it became a bit of a collectors item and i was thus happy with the reissue inspired backlash. not having heard it for years i couldn't comment on it musically but i do remember that i really enjoyed it. it's revisionist to call it eclecticism for eclecticism's sake as at the time it was pretty fresh to mix up the genres like coldcut did. now it's old hat and the hundreds of chill-out albums it directly inspired that clog the shelves of hmv show it in an unflattering light.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont like eclecticism in mix sets either

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

what bugs me is if people are gonna slate the Coldcut mix just because the pop and dance climates have shifted so much (as you'd expect) in the 6 years since that CD's original release as to make it sound dated...i say even if it is dated, doesnt make it bad. if you wanted it to make you dance but you find it doesnt thats cool...but i'd assume thats because you didnt like the kind of music on it at the time (or indeed now). i'm sure you could attack the mix on a technical level too (most of the tracks arent actually mixed into each other, and certainly not as smoothly albeit digitally as 2 Many DJs - but oops, they're DIFFERENT concepts) as Coldcut are literally old-skool DJs

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

That's what Tim's saying about "wrong time", maybe it'll all revive one day, for now there's a lucrative export trade to be had in shifting dumperloads of Headz 2 copies across the Atlantic where they don't quite seem to be over it yet.

Michael I still have my ex-valuable original copy thankyou very much and I got bored of it after a good few plays yes but before the chill out deluge. Eclecticism for eclecticism's sake as a criticism applies whether or not anyone else is doing it, anyhow. (I'm not sure it does work as a criticism though, its too vague, so I'm not going to defend it too much.)

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

the irony is that Coldcut did actually make great pop songs

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

no steve, i didnt like this stuff at the time. and all that mowax/headz stuff i disliked intensely, and still do

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah they didn't put any of the fuckers on JBDJ though! (There is great pop on JBDJ obviously)

I think the only way you can sensibly judge something is how it sounds now. Coldcut was a classic, now it's a dud, maybe it'll be a classic again someday soon, or never. If you don't assume your judgement has to be permanent you'll end up being far more honest about things ("you" as in everyone not as in you, steve!)

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i think eclecticism for eclecticism's sake as a criticism is rubbish because in these cynical times it seems to be applicable to anything that features several genres/styles together, which has always been for me a fundamental advantage to any performance, whether on an album, a dj mix, a party soundtrack, movie soundtrack...so its very natural and intuitive for me to want to hear that eclecticism and want to practise it myself. its not about saying 'oh i want everyone to know i like a bit of everything' (then again, whats wrong with that?) - for many people (most in fact) its an HONEST reflection of their musical outlook...i find it far more annoying when these people restrict themselves too much to one thing (e.g. checked out 45 minutes of Tom Middleton at Glasto last yaer but got totally bored because the 4/4 beat and tempo didnt seem to change at all for that entire time)...but i guess what that boils down to is i'm just not cut out for clubbing

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah this is what I meant by 'too vague'. I think you're completely right steve in that most people do listen to lots of stuff - what I was criticising was the kind of eclecticism that would only work by assuming that they *didn't*. Mixes where you get the idea that the DJs are sitting there thinking "hey I bet you never thought this would go with THIS" and obviously you did think that cos that's how you listen to stuff.

Now obviously 2ManyDJs does exactly this and that's not what I like about it, but for me they go to places Coldcut didn't - with Coldcut I found myself thinking in the second half of the mix, well if you're so fucking eclectic put on some handbag or rock or gabba or, I don't know, hip-hop with actual vocals in it then. So maybe what I'm criticising is acts who seem to make a virtue of their eclecticism when they're less 'eclectic' than most of the people I know.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

that's what i mean when i say revisionist, tom. coldcut's tape has kind of become the template for tasteful eclecticism. obviously, at the time it was something different; not just shorthand for "how cool am i?"

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

obv there's a difference between deciding something is Dud because you never liked it in the first place and something being Dud just because you find you dont like it anymore - now i've made the distinction all's right the world ;)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

this is all very well but it is not helping me get my copy of agharta back off matt black (he has now had it for 15 years!!)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

good point about Coldcut's mix Tom...but i think that proves that their mix isnt just eclecticism for its own sake otherwise there WOULD be pop and heavy metal in there too right?! haha...i think the reality is that in the mid 90s Coldcut were at their peak of snobbery and perhaps ashamed of their pop classics (wasnt there a general lack of passion for and belief in chart pop at this time?) and wanted to just incorporate the spectrum of 'IDM' and 'old skool flavour' into the mix and thats as eclectic as they got really

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

btw, how come Prodigy's 'Dirtchamber' mix doesnt get talked about as much...its the missing link between the Coldcut mix and the 2 Many Djs mix!

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it was a niggle even back then for me Michael but no, you're right, at the time it didn't spoil the mix for me.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

coincidence, i just re-minidisced this last night. i got the reissue and missed it the first time round, but it does have that feeling of being of its time. so i agree that it's prob unfair to compare this with 2mdjs (or yr dj yodas). we're now interested in different things -- not that we're listening differently (perhaps we are), but that we've moved on and embedded the attitude of the time and built on it. it's certainly not a dud for its content.

― Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

a lot of the artists on the COldcut album - Photek, Luke Slater, Plastikman, Red Snapper have all kind of stepped out of the limelight recently which makes the mix sound dated in that respect

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

by limelight i mean avid dance music press coverage i guess...none of them are as prolific as they were in the mid 90s tho eh?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

in the case of red snapper we can all be thankful for that.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

ha, unlucky for you michael, they're just releasing a collection of early works (tho red snapper + mc det = good i say)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I should stress 2 Many DJs is far from my favourite mix album. Tom's comment about pop tunes is kind of interesting, not sure if it was meant to be provocative or not but Coldcut is probably the least poppy mix I own, aside from Hell or Dave Clarke maybe.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

i can see i'm going to have to start defending 2 Many Djs now as well ;)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

btw, how come Prodigy's 'Dirtchamber' mix doesnt get talked about as much...its the missing link between the Coldcut mix and the 2 Many Djs mix!

the rightest thing on this thredd.

a lot of the artists on the COldcut album - Photek, Luke Slater, Plastikman, Red Snapper have all kind of stepped out of the limelight recently which makes the mix sound dated in that respect

Maybe the DBDJ mix does sound a little dated, but that's not the fault of the above artists. As Alan says, we're now interested in different things when it comes to mixes - Coldcut are very good at letting the tracks they use *breathe* and run around a bit; I never get/got the impression they were consciously trying to be clever in an "ooh, see these really different types of music *can* go together really well, yay me" kinda fashion - a feeling I often get when midway through a 2ManyDJs session.

I think in 2003 we can take it as read that music fans don't ghettoise themselves into genre constrictions as much as they used to; but in 1997, that idea was fairly new. Thus, in spite of its slight datedness (which I find quite endearing actually - hey, you try listening to Yoshimi in 2008 with the same awe), Coldcut JBDJ= totalclassicClassic.

― Charlie (Charlie), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

nb Luke Slater, out of the limelight? I've said it before and I'll say it again, Slater's Alright On Top is in my 2002 top 3 and you all need to hear it, if only so you can enjoy Ricky Barrow singing over fuck-off electro beats again!

― Charlie (Charlie), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i still havent heard 'Wireless' - help

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

If you don't assume your judgement has to be permanent you'll end up being far more honest about things

Mm, I'd have to disagree. I think you can be very honest about things and still maintain long-standing appreciations and grudges, if you like. Sure, I might end up thinking MBV are utter crap and RATM godhead, but I rather doubt it. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned you're confusing "not assuming judgements have to be permanent" with "assuming all judgements are impermanent". There are loads of things I've always liked and probably always will - no denying that. I just think that if you liked something 8 years ago you don't neccessarily owe it anything now.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

thats true, and i've found that my appreciation for albums i adored in the past such as Goldie's 'Timeless' and Faithless' 'Reverence' has waned a bit, altho not to the extent that I couldn't bear listening to them...but I still wouldn't go all out and call them Dud, I'd still go for Classic...so maybe I am locked in that feeling that I do owe them something, hmmm...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve - Wireless is amazing when Slater is doing his all out BOSH BOSH BOSH sci-fi breakbeat running-around-with-explosions-going-off thing, and deathly dull whenever the pace slows down a bit.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

he sampled Tears For Fears 'Mad World' for 'All Exhale' didnt he? niiiice

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

for slater, you must check 'Head Nodder'. great track

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

luke slater's best track is 'love' followed by 'time dancer'.

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

YES to 'Time Dancer'...'Freek Funk is a nice little album

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

He did an insane, I mean really insane screaming high pitched (more than the original obv) remix of La La Land.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Or else I was just really fucked and someone played La La Land at the wrong RPM and told me it was Luke Slater remix.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

revive!

I want to obtain every track they used in this mix, so that I can listen to them out of the context from which I've known them not in any other way. It is proving difficult.

The ones I still need:

1. Philorene - Bola (3:18)
2. Truper (Photek) - Street Beats, Vol. 2 (3:01)
4. Newcleus - Jam on Revenge (The Wikki Wikki Song) (1:11)
9. Coldcut - Mo Beats (1:16)
10. Bedouin Ascent - Manganese in Deep Violet (1:58)
11. Bob Holroyd - African Drug (3:14)
12. Air Liquide - Stratus Static (apparently always incorrectly listed as If There Was No Gravity) (1:55)
13. Coldcut - Beats and Pieces (1:47)
14. Coldcut - Greedy Beat (1:23)
15. Coldcut - The Music Maker (1:07)
16. Coldcut ft Queen Latifah - Find a Way (1:18)
18. Gescom - Mag (3:02)
20. Raphael Corderdos - Trumpet Riff (0:40)
21. Luke Slater's 7th Plain - Grace and Glory (1:02)
22. Joanna Law - First Time I Ever Saw Your Face (2:07)
23. Harold Budd - Balthus Bemused (1:57)
25. Boogie Down Productions - The Bridge Is Over (2:49)
26. DJ Food - Nu Blud (0:20)
27. Jhelisa - Friendly Pressure (2:38)
28. Hookian Minds - Freshmess [Bandulu Mix] (0:11)
29. Jello Biafra - Message from Our Sponsor (2:21)
30. Pressure Drop - Unify (1:57)
31. Love Lee - Again Son (2:17)

Don't suppose anyone has any of these in original full length form they could send?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

nine months pass...

haha xpost

― W i l l (common_person), Sunday, 7 May 2006 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

five years pass...

Still classic. As is this (the Coldcut / DJ Food Fight to be specific):

http://ninjatune.net/files/images/various-artists/two/zen26.jpg

When trip hop descended into middle-class dinner party soundtrack hell, I inadvisedly gave Ninja Tune a wide berth. But am glad to say, a lot of still stands strong.

― sam500, Saturday, 3 September 2011 01:51 (fourteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.