Ligeti: c'd, s/d

(I have a strange feeling you must already know all the more famous Ligeti pieces, just based on what else I know you listen to, so I hope someone shows up who can do the really early stuff more justice than I. Meanwhile, apologies if the rest of this post is all stuff you already know...)

Of the first works to bring Ligeti acclaim I like the big orchestral ones best, and I'd say they just get better and better, reaching a pinnacle with Lontano in '67. (I'd definitely also recommend Apparitions '59 and Atmospheres '61.) Big choral stuff like the Requiem is also powerful, but for me at least the "2001" associations stick a bit more for that piece and it's hard to hear it and not think movie music (even though it was written with no thought given to being used later in that movie!). As you probably know, Ligeti's project in these pieces was to create intricate textures -- "webs" of sound, he liked to say -- by superimposing dozens of independent, but carefully calibrated, melodic strands. The result isn't melodic, because all those layers become opaque, but the result isn't a dull gray either, because Ligeti varies the pitch content and the width and register and number of constituents to produce all sorts of colors and effects.

Some of the smaller-ensemble pieces do similar things, with glorious results in for example the second string quartet (1968). Obviously you're not going to have dozens of layers, but there's the same concern for composing detailed textures. That's also true for the solo pieces -- Continuum for solo harpsichord (also 1968) -- but the strategies are obviously different. 1962 was Ligeti's "dada" year, the year he wrote the piece for 100 mechanical metronomes and the highly theatrical vocal ensemble pieces Aventures and Aventures 2 (which might have been a bit later, actually?). The manic energy in late-sixties solo pieces like Continuum also reflects Ligeti's love of the absurd.

Some more recommendations without comments because I'm running out of steam after staying up all night writing grant applications.

Melodien
The opera Le Grand Macabre
Horn trio (early 80s)
Definitely, definitely the violin concerto (early 90s)
The piano etudes (book 1 is six pieces, book 2 is twelve, I've heard three from book 3 but maybe there's more by now) -- I have to say they start to sound a bit "samey" if you listen to more than five or six in a row

Must sleep now.

I ask bcz naxos has put out a disc of his etudes (will buy) so i wuz wondering.

''I kind of think of him as the Xenakis you could play to your girlfriend...''

that's funny but I'm sure women like the hard stuff as well.

dirty, dirty, dirty

Ligeti did make some electronic music while studying with Stockhausen in the mid-50s and while working at the Electronic Music Studio of Westdeutscherm, but I have not heard any of it. The piece I have read about is "Artikulation", from 1958.

Only the second movement from "Requiem" was used in the film... listening to the whole piece through, you'll forget that monolith.

Most people consider the Wergo releases to be the definitive early recordings, though the new performances on teldec's Ligeti Project are getting good reviews. I need to buy 'Edition II', yep I do.

In the good old days you couldn't copyright an audio recording, so (for that reason and others, too) electronic pieces were routinely published in the form of printed scores. Recognizing the uselessness of many of these documents, Ligeti decided HIS score was going to give listeners something pretty and meaningful to look at while they listened. (It was drawn by an artist/draughtsman named Wehinger and printed in color.) It would be awesome if the full score were reproduced in a CD booklet, but I rather doubt it's been done that way. Still, if you've got access to a good university library, it's worth hunting for.

explain?

''I'm obviously dating the wrong women Julio...''

I never date (I'm never asked) but I have 'faith' that women listen to the 'hard stuff' just like the men do.

yes.

''Compare the numbers of women ( if there are any there at all) with the numbers of geeky bearded blokes nursing half-pints of lager.''

hardly any lovely young women but plenty of bearded blokes (I was toying with the idea of growing a beard myself but not yet).

''Julio, you're never asked?''

no, never had the guts. it's a block I have (don't laugh).

''You need to get out more, my boy!''

yes, I do need to go to more improv gigs heh.

snoom- cheers. it looks like the wergo stuff is the way to go.

I was listening to Concert Romanesc last night and it's really on par with Messiaen's Turangalîla Symphony in its fresh conveyance of utter exaltation.

Other stuff I enjoy: Violin Concerto and the piece Continum for harpsichord.

'apparations' 'lontano' 'chamber concerto' have these incredible textures within them, his use of gaps of silence is actually triffic, when music would reappear it would often surprise me. Overall its great headphone music. 'Lux aetherna' and 'requirem' are mostly vocal pieces.

'Poeme electronique' I dig lots but not his actual electronic pieces 'artikulation' and 'glissandi' had nice tones but all meh, its telling he didn't compose much electronic music.

'aventures' and 'nouvelles aventures' excellent pieces of 'absurd'-ish type musical theatre ('62-'65). hope to get round to 'le grande macabre' soon.

I'm really digging some of Unsuk Chin's works (she studied w/Ligeti for a while), still have to get hold of the 'violin concerto'.

Also I'd like to ask about Gyorgy Kurtag - can't recall much talk of him anywhere on here but enjoying 'quasi una fantasia' so far.

can't go wrong with the Arditti Quartet. I've got the Wergo, but I think the Sony is an expanded reissue.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000029OY/qid=1137618627/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-3048447-4706548?s=classical&v=glance&n=5174

oh my rockness YOU HAVE FAILED ME

Sorry to be a knob but I have to make some corrections - Atmospheres is for orchestra, not organ; the Ligeti that Kubrick borrowed for 2001 (without, er, securing copyright) was the Kyrie from the Requiem, Atmospheres, Lux aeterna, and a bit of Aventures which Kubrick gave some heavy electronic treatment to (and didn't credit).

Julio - good call on Kurtag. He's a contemporary of Ligeti's, and they studied together for a while. His music is very different though. Quasi una fantasia is a good place to start; other recommendations would be the Jatekok piano pieces - there's an excellent ECM CD of these - the string quartet music (again, see ECM), and Messages of the Late R.V. Troussova. Grabstein fur Stephan and Stele are also recommended; they're on Deutsche Grammophon 447 761-2 coupled with Stockhausen's Gruppen - that's an essential record.

http://www.gyoergy-ligeti.de/

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=71hNl_skTZQ

the new ligeti project box is priced nicely at just over 30 bucks for 5 cds.

I would like to say that the Ligeti Edition vol 3: Piano Music is AWESOME!!! Who knew he was such a great piano composer? Apparently, most of this stuff is later works, and the etudes in particular were all from the 80s and 90s. Virtuosic, funny, mystical, even poignant. Kind of reminds of Prokofiev or Bartok in a weird way, but w/a more modern harmonic vocabulary, and hints of minimalism.

Isn't that the one performed by Pierre-Laurent Aimard? Beautiful stuff. You should hear his version of Messiaen's "Vingt Regards..." if you haven't.

happy birthday!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmuK8Wtux6Q

@ Sund4r

Ligeti's violin concerto, in addition to getting the oboes to play ocarinas, requests that one violinist and one violist tune themselves scordatura-- violin tuning slightly sharp, to the seventh-harmonic on the upright bass, viola tuning slightly flat.

I have spent so many times listening to this violin concerto along with the score and trying to determine the purpose and worth of this request and feel that it was superfluous. I adore scordatura strings but thought their implementation in this concerto was unsatisfying. (I've talked about this in other threads, where I have an aesthetic revulsion to unnecessary alternate tunings-- where I feel that the device is not exploited enough to justify the request-- or I feel that it's a substitute for an actually interesting idea-- I've talked about how Harry Partch made amazing instruments and had great ideas but made (mostly) music that didn't justify the great lengths his process involved-- or how Wychnegradsky went to such lengths to tune pianos by 6ths and 3rds of tones and then basically wrote Chopin nocturnes on top of them-- my own weird aesthetic frustration I guess)

But in comparison to Books 2 and 3 of the piano etudes, which are ~amazing~, wonderfully economical structural compositions, I don't really rate Ligeti's violin concerto so highly

I respectfully, vehemently disagree – I can't imagine Ligeti's violin concerto without the scordatura. I'm also a big fan of his etudes, but none of them are as uncannily moving.

How do you feel about Horațiu Rădulescu's string quartets?

I'll give them a listen this afternoon!

Nah I put it on right now and I've heard this but had forgotten and I adore this, this is perfect

Thinking about this now that I bought tickets to see this concerto live, for the first time. Is the issue that the alternate tunings are unsystematic and so the language doesn't feel unified or consistent? (It always worked for me, personally.)

I've never seen the concerto live... I have been meaning to re-listen to it since these posts!

@ pomenitul thanks again for the Radulescu wow I love it

My pleasure! I really hope Mode manages to finish its cycle of piano sonatas/string quartets with Stephen Clarke and the JACK Quartet.