If Prince & Bruce Springsteen were British...

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― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"Born in the USA" would have made even less sense

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

asking 'if prince were british' is like asking 'if george washington were british' - a hypothetical too far

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Geo. Washington was technically British.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

George Washington WAS British. Well, at least until the Revolution.

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, before Horace can beat me again:

Jesus WAS Jewish.

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince could pretty easily be British without much changing, I don't think of his music as particularly "American." But Springsteen is pretty hard to fathom -- America is at the core of his music, same way it is at the core of the writers he admires (Flannary O'Connor, Bobbie Ann Mason, Philip Roth)

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

We'll swap one of our princes for yours. You can have Edward - he's very talented, you know.

― James Ball (James Ball), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Who is the British Springsteen? Roger Waters?

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

But surely Prince would've had little success in the U.S. if he were a Brit. On some level, don't you think some people still viewed him as some weird boy from Minnesota?

(I had a long talk with a friend about this earlier this week. I'll post his thoughts later)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince could pretty easily be British without much changing, I don't think of his music as particularly "American."

?????

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

?????

!!!!!

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

????? = hstenciltype for "That's just about the dumbest thing I've seen on ILM in what was probably the dumbest week of ILM ever."

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

The British Springsteen is Billy Bragg. But while Bruce has got 'Thunder Road', Billy's got 'A-13 Trunk Road to the Sea'.

― James Ball (James Ball), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Springsteen = Bragg was what my friend proposed, but I completely disagree. Springsteen's unaware of conditions outside those he sees right in front of him, while Bragg only wants the big picture (hence I buy Bruce but not Billy).

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but who's the British Billy Joel?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Elvis Costello.

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince would obviously come from Brighton if he was British, but where would Bruce come from? Newcastle?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I getting visions of "Tales of Springsteen" replayed with a cockney accent

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

George Washington was a Southerner muhfuhs, it ain't where you from it's where you at

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought of Prince as so deep into his own world that it didn't really matter where he was from. I know that his music is v. American in terms of the traditions he draws from, but that's true of plenty of UK artists as well. But the themes & lyrical details of Prince's music seem more universal.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Bruce would surely come from Sheffield ...

― Jay K (Jay K), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

aargh, if no one else will - "MAGGIE TALK TO ARGENTINA"

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Taking Sides: Bruce Springsteen vs. David Bowie
What the Brit/American Equivalent of....

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

in the interests of maintaining the world's deadliest alliance I will note that I like Bowie more than Springsteen and Queen more than Meatloaf.

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks for those, Fritz, tho I wasn't looking for a "Who's the UK equiv to..." thing. More about how national identities influence/further/hinder/expand Prince's & Springsteen's aesthetic and ideology. (tho admittedly i haven't done much to further these ideas thusfar in this thread...)

"bowie > springsteen" = blount delirium, but "queen > meatloaf" suggests sanity. confusion!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

In Springsteen's case the influence is total, don't you think? Every album is about the characters' place in America. Does Springsteen ever mention another country in his songs? I don't have his last 3 or 4 albums, but I can't think of one.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

The influece is total, Mark, and, more importantly, it's so specific. Every Springsteen song = cars, wide open space, a struggle to survive. Cars + wide open spaces is a distinctly American property (especially how he uses it)(is there any wonder that he based Nebraska on Badlands considering how the Great Plains were shot?) that, to my mind, does not have a British equivalent -- directly or indirectly.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Well what about Prince? I mean, I could see sheep grazing above a rocky cliff on "Old Man Johnson's Farm."

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

If Prince had been British -- and, by extension, his numerous female proteges -- then a substantial portion of the budget of "Purple Rain" would've gone toward "dental work" on the Apollonia character's front teeth... :-)

...plus, he would've been even less of an initial hit in the States than he was, in reality, on his first U.K. tour (which was ultimately cancelled due to low sales)...

If Bruce had been British??? Ahhhhh......... I don't know.... he certainly wouldn't have made an album in reaction to 9/11, that's for sure... (y'know, since all those nasty, evil, imperialist American slobs going to their jobs at evil, white, capitalist corporations brought all that nasty airplane business on themselves, due to the foreign policies THEY implemented... *scoffs*... bloody stupid Americans...)

― Scott Kos (Scott Kos), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know Prince well enough to answer that. I was hoping Matos might have something to say. I was arguing to my friend that Prince might not have even been a musician were he a Brit, but I have no idea where that idea comes from.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm trying to remember how "America", Prince's response to 'Born in the USA', went. I just remember that the live clip of it BET used to show had Prince doing a drumsolo (which rocked).

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

God BET used to show alot of Prince liveclips that were just amazing, there's a clip of "Baby I'm A Star" that something like 12 minutes long that's just mindblowing, VH1 Classics will show it every now and then.
Frankly there's no way the English could ever get that funky.

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 25 April 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

"Teacher... why won't Jimmy pledge allegiance?"

By all accounts I've stumbled across, a completely un-ironic, straight-faced little rave-up.

Yes, I remember those wonderful BET clips, as well.

― Scott Kos (Scott Kos), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but who's the British Billy Joel?

Elvis Costello.

God that's so OTM.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince would obviously come from Brighton if he was British, but where would Bruce come from? Newcastle?

He does, he's called Mark Knopfler.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

That's what I was kinda getting at. Obviously, it ain't workin'.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

...than 1984 wouldn't have been the best year for pop radio evah

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

They'd be uncut.

― maria b (maria b), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

is there something you'd like to share with the rest of us amazing maria?

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 25 April 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

If Prince were British, Janet Jackson would still be struggling to rival Rebbie's popularity.

― Rich, Friday, 25 April 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

OMG Jody NOTM

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

If Bruce Springsteen had been British, then he would have been Billy Bragg.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but who's the British Billy Joel?

Billy Joel is the American Elton John

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, personally I think that if Bruce Springsteen had been British, then he would have been Billy Bragg.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought Springsteen would have been an Essex boy, yeah (if London was NYC, Essex would certainly be New Jersey)

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

OMG AHF

(oh my god amateurist hates fun)

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Robin, is that what Jaye Davidson meant when he said "Fuck off back to Essex" in The Crying Game?

― maria b (maria b), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

ISTHMUS

(i so think hstencil missed, uh, something)

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

If Bruce Springsteen had been British, then he would have been Billy Bragg.

Geir in perfectly reasonable assertion shockah!

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 16 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Jody Beth Rosen = the American Garth Hudson.

Waah! I wanna be Richard Manuel!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yancey in misvaluing-the-pleasure-of-brief-but-only-brief-asides-that-reference-the-absolutely-bonkers-statistical-madness-that-is-The-Geir-and-also-using-profanity-to-boot shockah!

Why would you wanna die?

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't make me answer that.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, by being Manuel, thereby being a suicide nutjob, and dying. Wait, confusing posts!

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Hstencil-in-confused-how-Sasha-can-be-such-a-good-writer-and-use-all-them-damn-hypens shockah!

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the hyphen is your friend

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

What is this thread about? Shockah? I have no idea.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The Band

"I decided last night they were the North American Roxy Music."

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm, if i had to pick a "british springsteen" it would have been either (a) faces-era rod stewart (don't laugh -- "laddish" outlook, gritty voice, fondness of writing lyrics about "losers"); or (b) paul weller (though it would take some doing to explain away the style council years).

i dunno if i can really think of a british equivalent of prince, to be honest.

― Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

british springsteen is freddie mercury. and the british prince is freddie mercury.

― matthew james (matthew james), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

who's the british freddie prinze?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

british prince = adam ant?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

in the visual sense, totally.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

winning combination of sex appeal AND showmanship AND songwriting talent, both were prolific in their prime and released a streak of really strong singles, both pretty much MIA now

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

also: the Ants vs. the Revolution

Bow Wow Wow/Monochrome Set vs. Vanity 6/Apollonia 6

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

fine, fine, as long as we admit that Prince's prime was a hell of a lot longer.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

British Prince (except he was American born) = Terence Trent D'Arby

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Vanity 6/Apollonia 6

or maybe Wendy & Lisa (as a solo act) is a better parallel

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

come to think of it, i think that Marc Almond could be passed off as a British Prince -- but that would have to be "Sex Dwarf"-era Marc Almond, not Jacques Brel-era Marc Almond.

― Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Who's the American Roland Gift?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Freddie Mercury=part David Bowie, part Robert Plant, part Little Richard, part Pavarotti, part Liberace

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Springsteen has sex appeal? ::winces::

― maria b (maria b), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Roland Gift, on the other hand, I would hand my body over to on a platter.

― maria b (maria b), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Adam Ant works a HELL of a lot better as a British Prince than Terence Trent, who's the British D'Angelo.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Adam Ant = Army Of Lovers

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Jackie Wilson = the American Roland Gift

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

...they would use more chords and Geir would lurve them.

― man, Friday, 25 April 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Terence Trent, who's the British D'Angelo.

D'Angelo vs. D'Arby

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

When Neil Tennant reviewed 1999 in Smash Hits he called Prince an "American Gary Glitter."

― s woods, Friday, 25 April 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Michael Jackson is the American Gary Glitter. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Army of Lovers = the Swedish Flux Information Sciences

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The Band are obviously the American Blur, Squeeze, XTC or The Jam anyway, computing typically American music the same way Blur, Squeeze, XTC and The Jam have been computing typically English music.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

When Neil Tennant reviewed 1999 in Smash Hits he called Prince an "American Gary Glitter."

Except for this statement, Tennant is genioose. Most of these Prince = statements ignore the depth of his pop songbook, which does overshadow his funk, not his strongest feature.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Sure, I mean.. Prince = Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, John Lennon, David Bowie, Little Richard, Freddie Mercury, Barry Gibb and John Holmes all in one.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

does anyone notice geir slipping in and out of character lately?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Sasha, I may have misrepresented slightly (I'm looking in vain for the review, but no such luck). First, I'm thinking now it might have been the song "1999" he was reviewing, and I think his reasoning was that he heard glitter-rock in the song's beat. (Also, you gotta give him a little leeway; though Prince was critically lauded at that point, it wasn't totally obvious to everyone how much depth of song catalog still lurked around the corner.)

― s woods, Friday, 25 April 2003 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

yep, Maria - I've never seen The Crying Game, but Essex has this sort of "downmarket white lumpen prole" image in the UK, which is what I imagine that line is meant to evoke.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Friday, 25 April 2003 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, Prince used to have the Revolution rehearse "Cars," so maybe he's the American Gary Numan instead

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 25 April 2003 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Paul Weller could qualify as the Bruce.

He wishes he could, but thank God Springsteen's greatest hits is actually listenable (and not called "Modern Classics", eurgh) and Springsteen didn't spend the 90's hyping up Fastball or whoever the U.S. equivalent of OCS were.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 25 April 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

dude, Springsteen sang with the Wallflowers on MTV. How about that? And I'd definitely include the Jam as his "E Street Band."

Then again, he sang on "One Headlight," easily their best song, and maybe he was aware that with your eyes closed it was impossible to tell which voice was Dylan and which was Springsteen and he was just fucking around.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 April 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess: Geir in second accepted-wisdom-yet-OK-for-all-that shockah! The Geirbot is obviously being jimmied manually by some infidel.

Scott: I could see it around "1999" but I would offer that Dirty Mind all by itself should have clued Tennant to what was going on.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Lewis Taylor is the nearest thing to a British Prince at the moment. Multi-instrumentalist (and similar guitar style), studio dabbler, multi-tracked vocal trickery, songs about obsession, working at the interface between rock and soul, not very tall.

― James Ball (James Ball), Saturday, 26 April 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Both great live, but Lewis can't dance like Prince. Plus, he's not a mentalist.

― James Ball (James Ball), Saturday, 26 April 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince = the American Bowie?
The Time = the American Slade?
Ready For The World = the American Suede?

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 26 April 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

c'mon, Suede weren't THAT good

― James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 26 April 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

true true... Suede never did a "Ruff N' Ready"

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 26 April 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

Prince would obviously come from Brighton if he was British, but where would Bruce come from? Newcastle?

birmingham? he seems like he would be a very good brummie ...

― Eisbaer, Saturday, 8 December 2007 23:33 (eighteen years ago)

Big Bruce aka the Springsteen driver

― Heave Ho, Saturday, 8 December 2007 23:49 (eighteen years ago)

-- James Ball (James Ball), Saturday, 26 April 2003 13:08 (4 years ago) Bookmark Link

lol

― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 8 December 2007 23:54 (eighteen years ago)

I have to agree with hstencil that I said some dumb things on this thread.

― Mark Rich@rdson, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

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