TS: The Fall vs. Pavement

*ducks and runs*

I've never been able to get into The Fall as much as I thought I should. I admire their longevity, and like a couple of their songs, but I grew up with Pavement on my stereo, so my vote (however sentimental) goes to them.

Inch!

also, album covers

1. Cover art 'homages' to Hex Enduction and other Fall recs
2. 'Two States'

Early on, I think Pavement mined the same sonic ground as the Swell Maps and Wire, vs. the poppier NZ stuff, which I think they only started to really delve into on Crooked Rain. The Fall comparisons are mostly cosmetic.

DUH!

See in particular this post, where I expressed much the same opinion as Shakey Mo expressed above. I admire the Fall a great deal, but I listen to Pavement more.

Yeah, I was afraid I'd like Pavement less (or at least "respect" them less or something) once I found how much they ripped off the Fall, since that's what so many articles implied. Then I investigated the Fall and found happily that they sound almost nothing alike, aside from a few song-specific "homages"; Pave's integrity survives! Plus, also happily, the Fall rule (though in a very different way).

Cut it loose Stevie...Maybe you'll end up sounding like The Dead C, but I doubt it...

Whatever, I pick The Fall and I'd like to be reminded again of why Pavement was so popular. I don't dislike them, but I've gotten so bored with them! It's like I got into Pavement for the grey indie rock lo-fi beats and the interesting lyrics, then split into liking The Fall for the music and the Silver Jews for the lyrics.

Blount's Malkmus anecdote above, priceless

Yes yes yes! The first thing I thought when I saw the thread title was, "The Fall, obviously -- better drummers."

No. Speaking of their last album, "Terror Twilight", which was actually quite nice. The rest of their output leaves me cold, but so does The Fall's entire output too.

Surely, you're talking about Pavement's studio work and not the live shows, then.

trying to rely on the "don't you just love me?" factor.

has kept Malkmus in BMWs since Gary left the farm. Not that you don't have a point about reaching-out artists and waiting-for-you-to-get-to-them artists (if that's not an unfair reduction of your reduction), but MES and SM both seem like they decided who they were early on and kept at it.

MES: Lover of chemicals that foment work (like Sartre: "This tube means I will process this many words in three days"); voracious reader of all things; fan of donnybrooks; lover of rock beats, loser of teeth; writer of irreducible, rhythmic goodness.

SM: Heir to good bones; expert on mid-20th century poets; slayer of rosewood; dropper of long-ass melodies; owner of pink oxford shirts; manager of the Work Is For The Little People Society. Both, in a pinch, geniuses. One in desperate need of medical attention; the other, probably some of whatever got the first one into so much trouble.

And donut bitch OTM like Jefferson's face.

oddly enough at least half the thread voted for Pavement!!

I had the chance to do that when I met him when Preston School of Industry played in Oxford, and he had nothing bad to say.

Both very obtuse, high-minded lyricists with a penchant for obscure references, but Malkmus had an emotional side that MES never quite cared to exhibit. But without The Fall, Pavement would never have been that interesting... Winner = The Fall.

So, The Fall = rhythm-based band, Pavement = melody based.

I think that melody > rhythm, pretty much always.

Also, I get the feeling that a lot of you who are putting down Pavement's live show only are familiar with pre-97 live shows. From 97-99 they were a pretty fucking great live band, and most everything from their final two albums is better live than on the studio recordings.

I would say Geir to thread but he's already posted.

wouldn't that contribute to more fanboy criticism of his 'ego'? and in a way, he did with the jicks. he knows that he has become the sound of pavement. it's a little guitar and his voice, that's all. so he did ... he reorganized the pavement members right out of the band.

The Fall, obviously, have produced brilliant challenging music for over a quarter of a century (disregarding the crap albums), and without Mark's bastardliness there would be no Creepers or Blue Orchids (or Ark, but the less said the better). Pavement had a few cool songs and some enjoyable albums.

while we're on the topic of bands pavement ripped off, my friend pointed out that pavement ripped "stereo" off from some Nation of Ulysseys song. anybody know what im talking about?

was that ripped off too?

It comes down to this, however; it was much more satisfying to discover Pavement than it was to discover The Fall.

That's awesome that you noticed that. I had a good laugh about that one Thursday night in 1996 or whenever and had no one to share my delight with.

Do you really have to ask?