Anyone here know about indian music?

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I've been listening to lost of Panjabi Hit Squad, RDB DJs, Tigerstyle stuff lately and someone's asked me to write about it. Stuff that's going on now I can handle really well as I can see how it works and comes together in terms of contemporary British street culture - eg the convergence of bhangra and 2step garage/R&B/hip-hop etc. However, being white English I have realised that I have several HUGE knowledge gaps that need plugging... can anyone recommend any good stuff to read on more trad forms of bhangra and Indian music as a whole? (Concise and to the point with a good geographical, sociological and cultural bent that would be fab.) Also if anyone can explain a few key terms to me I'd be forever indebted - like what exactly is "desi"?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I dig me crazed Bollywood music -- the more incongruous and musically adventurous the better.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 27 April 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

A "desi" is a native, i.e. someone of Indian pure extraction, whether immigrant or not.

I probably have very litle else info of use, but what else do want to know?

this may be of litte or no interest:

In the early nineties, (1993-1995) I conciously avoided hanging out with the Asian posse at my university. The Asian posse typically dressed in black. Listened solely to urban music (swing, hiphop primarily, with little time for more house or drum n'bass). The had few white friends and obviously felt they had an affinity with any black people they knew.

― Nik (Nik), Sunday, 27 April 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

re the definition of "desi", that's what i figured. so it's not a musical style as such, then? as I have understood it in the reading i've done, "desi" when applied to music simply means purist/traditional. is this somewhere approaching right? also what language is it from?

re the other things, i'm just interested in the religious/geographical roots of bhangra and would like to read up on/be told how it grew into an partially electronic dance genre. ie where is it from (religions/regions), who played it originally, on what instruments and what how did it become indian club music? just basic history stuff, i mean it's stuff i hear all the time walking down th eroad an i own a little chunk of it, but i know precious little about it from a cultural/sociological point of view!

re this, can i take it you're asian yourself? not for any other reason than that a mate of mine at university (in london at about the same time) used to say pretty much the same thing...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

yes i is azian

― Nik (Nik), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i think "desi" is just a hindi word.

bhangra comes from the panjabi community. The punjabis are from north india. They have clubs in the day time so all the kids with strict parents can hav' it and still get home in time to their homework and help their mums. At least, that's what I remember being told/finding out a few years ago.

I imagin bhangra is borne out of a more traditonal style of populist music and the electronic/urban variation became inevitable when the next generation of kids just came along with their Ataris and Cubasis, etc.

― Nik (Nik), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah you sounded like my friend - we met through both being very into jungle!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i'mon the right track then, as what you've said is what i've understood so far but i stillneed to do a lot of reading and have some pretty in-depth chats with the artists in question as there's potential galore to fuck up here... will be interesting to research though as i like the new stuff a lot...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

not an expert, but here are my two cents

bhangra was originally a punjabi folk dance based around harvest. started developing in 70s with ppl beginning to mix pop they were listening to with stuff from home/they grew up with. bhangra being more upbeat and dance oriented to begin with lent itself easier to this fusion than other forms. (the only early group i know from this period is Alaap.) bhangra continued to evolve, becoming more dancey in 80s (not familiar enuf with those folk either to recommend ppl) and '90 a Bally Sagoo remix album really blew up. I think his was the first bhangra tape I heard in about '91 or so in NYC and it seemed to be everywhere i went then.

I'll ask a cpl of friends for sugested reading on traditional stuf and I seem to remember some discussion of this on a thread a while back, maybe do a search in the archives

― H (Heruy), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks such a lot... and you too nik... as i said, any help very much appreciated

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.danishrahi.com

Pakistani.

― jm (jtm), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

are you writing on bhangra only? and then london scene only or the whole asian massive?

― H (Heruy), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

the crews i mentioned above appear to be more punjabi and their specific sounds are mixing UK garage and R&B with bhangra, so that would limit my work to bhangra i think (which is a good thing as i have a lot to learn on this one style alone!)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

as i said, i am a total dilettante in this respect and it's the links with garage in particular that got me into buying this stuff, plus from what i can gather this style of music has its roots in quite a different tradition to, say, the asian underground stuff of talvin singh, nithin sawney et al?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the emphasis is on british, but the interesting thing is that there's only one london crew out of the above bunch... it appears to be more provincial, but if you know of any people in the US then i'd love to hear about them

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 27 April 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the rough guide to world music is a pretty handy reference. not too heavy.

― gaz (gaz), Sunday, 27 April 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, was just asking 'coz i didn't know if your piece was going to be on the whole asain underground - indian music + club beats or focus specifically on bhangra and how that has developed.

thr rough guide would provide a basic start, biut don't think it gives references in it for other places to look, would give you names of other 70s, 80s bands to maybe explore.

I wonder how much overlap there is between the london scene and stuff getting played on MTV India, I was always amused by the Mad Punjabi when I used to get Mtv India.

sidenote, last fall saw Achanak perform (London band who i think were/are pretty significant in bhangra scene) It was an abysmal live show, actually wanted to get up and drag 'em off stage. when the piece is done post a link, I'd be interested to read it.

― H (Heruy), Sunday, 27 April 2003 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

instruments -- there's a whole bunch but the key ones are the dhol which is a kind of two-headed drum that's the heart of the beat, and the tumbi which is a one-stringed mandolin thing which makes those eighth note whatevas that run throughout. there's a coupla flute-like things which make occasional appearances and of course the bloopy-sounding tabla drum.

lyrics often are derived from traditional boliyan ballad-things.

listen a bit to figure the rhythms out fr yrself, and also check Panjabi MC's "Challa Track".

There are a few dudes working on the house tip here in Chicago as well as DJ Banti who's got a hiphop crew of sorts. B21 and stuff are really working the "so solid" type crew angle too.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 28 April 2003 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Jaan Pehechaan Ho" by Mohammed Rafi, found on the Ghost World soundtrack but originally from a 1960s Indian rock and roll movie, is a cross between Dick Dale and a burlesque show.
And the video clip is a scream.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 28 April 2003 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Pandit Jasraj is your man.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 28 April 2003 05:24 (twenty-two years ago)

B21 and stuff are really working the "so solid" type crew angle too.

Yeah, I forgot to mention B21 at first - quite like 'em... all this info is proving really useful though, so thanks a lot, all of you. Thought i might have to grab a Rough Guide sooner or later anyway, so it looks like now's the time!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 28 April 2003 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Try this other thread for more info on Bhangra.

Truth Hurts - Addictive; Hey, what's the name of the Indian song playing in the background?

― Dhiraj, Friday, 2 May 2003 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

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