What do you think? Even a stopped clock or more of the same?
TMFTML
― TMFTML (TMFTML), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)
― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)
― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)
Of course he doesn't want other people becoming music journalists. I mean, god forbid they might end up competing for his meagre column inches and paycheck.
When will people tire of thinking up new ways to say "Music Journalism, in fact, the whole of the Music Industry is a foetid pile of stinking shit"? Probably never.
Cute to see ads for the Sidewalk Cafe, though. :-)
― kate, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)
well. I WAS a whore, but freelance submissions have been cut down this ear, so not lately.
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)
― bucky wunderlick (bucky), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)
Kingfish, times are tough, but another Van Gogh incident?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)
hey, you tell Woodstra & Wilson to start allocating more space for reviews of weird indie rock bands, or else he'll be getting more than just that ear in the mail.
p.s. Here's to Ben!
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)
NB: the quotes selected at the beginning practically deep-six everything that comes afterward. The Mink Lungs one is hype, obviously. But the second two are just butt-ordinary descriptions -- I'm happy to assume the rest of both articles was pretty limp, but there's nothing so head-shakingly damning about either of the quotes.
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)
― Lucky Charms Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)
Do you think, like, gardening enthusiasts complain about how freelancers write terrible hype pieces about how begonias are in this season? I mean, they might -- nobody likes turning to something for information and detecting that they're reading publicity work instead. I certainly don't mean to defend that sort of "journalism" in the least -- just think this particular article acts like it's pulling the veil off of something that we all know exists. (I mean, really, it's not like more than 5% of the population could watch Entertainment Tonight wide-eyed and treating it as hard news; people know how fluff works.)
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)
running into him at some local nightclub where my buddy was DJing and witnessing him try to dance and impress some glittered-eye'd booty next to him was turly a memorable* scene.
*memorable in that the image was inexorably seared into my retinas, never to be removed, with using hydrogen peroxide & disposable razors.
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)
Sure, but nobody cares. Most people still don't look for alternatives to what Entertainment Tonight and Entertainment Weekly hand them. If the media says Shania Twain is great, they'll probably go along with it. (See also the lack of evidence supporting an invasion of Iraq.)
This would've been a funny article if the guy didn't whine so much. I think it's hilarious that people pay $65 for a seminar like this. As for the seminar itself, it's stupid but hey, this is what music journalism has become - why is he bitching so hard about a symptom of that problem?
― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)
― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)
This woman did seem to be way too compliant; it was as if she was inviting the novices to be self-censoring and ass-kissing. I don't believe that actually gets you work, just a reputation as a bit of a stooge. As we already know, the golden rule when dealing with a conservative and censorious regime is 'give them an inch, they'll take a mile'. So start as you mean to continue, by being your own best judge while dealing as politely with middlemen as is possible. If your subject/their boss respects you and finds your questions/approach interesting, and tells people, PRs tend to follow (for ex the girl from the Kills is going around telling people she really enjoyed being interviewed by me, and it's come back to me through her PR, a band she toured with, and various other people. Who was the most chuffed? Her PR). After all, their default setting is to do what the boss says to.
RONAN, what's the commission?
― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)
It would take a lot less than three hours for her to convince anyone with integrity to walk away from the business, and I would’ve paid a lot more than $65 to be talked out of this business back when I was younger.
― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)
― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)
Not to mention the fact that I get the impression that music writers (and the music business in general) often operate from the perspective that their industry is significantly unique. Nothing could be further from the truth.This kind of whoredom is prevalent throughout journalism, and rampant among industries across the spectrum.
― don weiner, Thursday, 29 May 2003 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)
NY Press to thread! [caveat: I wrote for the Press for a couple years, so I suppose I shouldn't really talk]
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 29 May 2003 05:09 (twenty-two years ago)
― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 29 May 2003 07:52 (twenty-two years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)
Somebody, after all, has to note that N.E.R.D. is getting critical acclaim for ripping off bands like Styx and Slipknot.
Nothing J.R. Taylor says should ever, ever be taken as anything even tangentially connected to "truthful" or "reasonable", as I learned months ago.
― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)
Actually, I was gonna say earlier that the only reason Taylor can assume the cloak of righteous indignation is because he can say the music press wasn't always like this, that there was a time when the press could maintain something of a critical (though it seems for Taylor this only means adversarial) position against the music industry and get away with it (which probably only reinforces its safety-valvishness -- if it was really so damned adversarial why did music companies tolerate it?). The canonical example here would be the Lester Bangs/Lou Reed interviews.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)
in the UK the car-industry equiv of meltzer = jeremy clarkson (haha i don't read uk car mags either, possibly clarkson is despise as a shill right across the motor journalism trade)
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)
Phrased that way, I'm sure there's a few resident curmudgeons out there who may mix spleen and boring 'objectivity', but, no, you're right, professional handbiters "paid to do nothing but bite the hand that feeds" seem unlikely. Meltzer does seem like an aberration. Though, I don't know, maybe not a *complete* aberration. Hunter S. Thompson still gets paid (though I don't know dick about him).
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)
To those of you who are a little naive, whoredom exists because publicity/p.r. tactics are fairly universal. They are time tested and cross boundaries of industry easily. It's just more colorful and interesting in the entertainment industry because of the celebrity element.
Matos, I wouldn't lose sleep because you've written for the NYP--as long as what you wrote had some integrity. The difference between the that publication's whoredom and any other in the relevant range are comparatively minimal.
― don weiner, Thursday, 29 May 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)
My personal favourite type of publicist-meddling is 'PR Who Tries To Sit In On Interview'. Usually it's a more corporate kind of publicist who does this, so I don't deal with 'em very often, but AAARGH.
― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 29 May 2003 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 29 May 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 29 May 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)