ZZ TOP: Eliminator and Afterburner

p.p.s.: i don't think there's a ZZ Top thread here. i'm not into the early blues-boogie stuff owing to the fact that i don't much like it (i guess they do it OK if it's yer sorta thing). so talk about that, too, if you like. esp. since the good folks at AMG inform us that all eliminator and afterburner did was put an exclamation mark after this band's alleged mechanoid rhythm anyway.

Their best album: Deguello. Exactly halfway between Tres Hombres and Eliminator, with the best of both. And some really weird, funny lyrics.

Rock was better in the '80s so people were worried about not being around to enjoy it. These days...

Bigger similarity between Afterburner and Eliminator though, that's pretty prima facie.

Going New Wave on The Tube in 1983

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkBN6tgN9JQ

I remember when "Gimme All Your Lovin'" blew up (and even saw them at good ole Irvine Meadows in '83!) and didn't really think it was out of the ordinary, but this clip is pure WTF.

Everyone in this thread OTM.

heard "Thug" on the radio the other day, such a banger

The article on them in the November Mojo shines (selected) light on this era. Gibbons cites being on the Whistle Test in '81 or so w/OMD as a turning point;he says they ordered a synth rig right after, "losing" the manual after getting it out the box. They neglect to mention Ardent studios or Terry Manning at all.

Interviewed them the other week and BG said Eliminator was all about his obsession with finding perfect time.

And you know, this makes PERFECT sense too. Gibbons says this in the latest Record Collector:

I took a shine to Depeche Mode. I went to see them and it was SO heavy…it was rewarding to me as seeing James Brown in 1965….That inspired me and I was able to lightly steer the band.

i've always been partial to "sharp dressed man" and the bold reductionism of its stance toward the mystery of romantic attraction. "every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man."

Ha, he "lightly steered the band" right out of the studio. Gibbons is the only member on Eliminator.

Looking at their catalog in retrospect, both albums are pretty weak. I wish they wouldn't have been such a singles-oriented band, but when they got it right; damn! Still, the synths were a huge change to their sound and seems like a desperate attempt to remain relevant. I've listened to both of these albums once in the last 20 years (and that was only for the purpose of making a ZZ compilation ) but i doubt i'll ever listen to either again. But, the same could be said for their entire catalog. The Moving Sidewalks and American Blues material is worth checking out.

I don't think I've ever heard Afterburner. Eliminator is great. La Futura is also great. this band in general is amazingly solid.

I should get started on the catalog.

Afterburner btw was on the New Jersey thread.

w/ the exception of Rio Grande Mud I have everything of theirs on vinyl which all sounds great. it is kind of annoying how much of a mess their catalog is re: digital versions tho.

As I posted on the main ZZ Top thread, there's a 10CD box coming from Rhino in June that bundles their first 10 albums - everything from ZZ Top's First Album through Recycler - with the original mixes restored on all the '70s stuff. It's gonna be $60.

anybody recall an article/interview from a while back talking about how they created the now infamous drum sound on this stuff? something about frank beard holing up in a hot attic with a bud who had a linn and some triggers and just making these airtight beats?

I don't have the interview at hand, but I recall Terry Manning saying that the Eliminator drum sund was the sequencer plus matched live drums from himself and some session guys layered in post.

I do think Frank Beard was in a hot attic with a Bud while they were making it though.

badoom psss

I have a vague memory of this... included the anecdote about all hit songs being a certain bpm too iirc

There was a(n engineers'?) forum where Terry Manning posted a ton of inside Eliminator info a few years ago but I'm not able to locate it atm.

The infamous Six Pack used the acoustic drum tracks as triggers for replacement digital drums. iirc, Manning begged off the project, rightly sensing sacrilege.

word from my guitar teacher is that billy gibbons is very much NOT an improviser. like at all. i've never checked into it one way or another myself. not a knock on the guy, who is a bona fide genius imo, but it's an interesting trait for a blues-based guitarist. a total drilled studio-perfect kind of guy, i take it. which kind of explains all those tampered-with CD issues, in a way.

Ah, here's what I was looking for (in Archive form). Manning posts as "compass point."

I don't have the interview at hand, but I recall Terry Manning saying that the Eliminator drum sund was the sequencer plus matched live drums from himself and some session guys layered in post.

― Sheela-Tubb-Mann, You Real Know-It-All (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:17 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, I guess it can now be told, as long as you promise not to pass it on, but yes, I played the drums on "Legs," and in fact, almost the whole album. As mentioned, this song was recorded in my attic, except for Billy's lead guitar and vocal, which came from a previous studio version which was unsatisfactory. (Oh, if I could tell the whole, real story! Maybe someday...)

The drums were a combination of things. There was programming, on my Oberheim drum machine, and then a multitude of samples triggered in over the snare as well, using an AMS DMX, and very carefully manually trimming the input volume to catch every beat properly. The hat was a sound from the Oberheim mixed with some sampled things and some white noise, then gated and triggered from an arpeggiated spike. Then I one-at-a-time overdubbed certain other drums, some toms, and definitely cymbals. On some of the tracks of the album, I added to the tom sounds with a Simmons electronic kit, just barely mixed under the real ones, for tom 'fatness.' For the rest of the music track, a lot of it was programmed (step programming!) in my MemoryMoog. There was just barely enough memory in it to get a few things, then I'd have to re-program and punch in. I remember on one arpeg-16th sound, there was enough memory to do the whole song, but not to add any chord changes. So I would use a cassette case to hold down the tonic key (wedged in place using the F# black key as a 'holder') and then make the temperament changes with the detuning wheel. Not very easy, with the high technology available back then, but it forced you to be creative! I had to set the amount of detune for one change, then record the two passages, then re-set it for another change, start from the beginning every time, and punch in on the right spot. It took forever! The bass I played manually on a bass instrument, then doubled it in the manner mentioned above with the Moog. The rhythm guitar I played normally with a guitar, run into a Marshall head, then into my Harbinger speaker-booth-box (Ronny Montrose design out of SF). The pads and angel voices came from a Yamaha DX-9...I didn't want to spring for the whole cost of a '7'! The background vocals were done by me and Jimmy Jamison (who is now lead singer for Survivor, and can be seen on a new ad on TV, I think for Gateway or something like that). Jimmy did a lot of great BV's for me over the years. He can sound like whomever you put him with!

I mixed "Legs" from my Soundcraft 2" 24 track, through my Soundcraft 1200 console, onto my MCI 1/2" two track...I still have and use that 2 track today. Works like a hay baler, but actually records well...it's the tranformerless electronics version. The Soundcraft stuff I sold to Sun Studios, who put it into the famous old building. U2 recorded "Angel of Harlem" on it!

As for the drum fill, I would hate to take any credit as an inventor of a fill! Billy and I worked out most of the fills together...we were very into what type of fills would work in what places. We were expecially fond of the one you mention, and also were trying to find places where a fill could extend into the first couple of beats of the next bar, after a normal fill would have ended. I don't remember if we actually executed this or not...I'll have to listen to the whole Eliminator album now, just to see!

Anyway, that's some of the story. Thanks for your interest!

Regards,

Terry

that's a big long thread. where was it where someone was talking about how it took hours for Billy to get the right whh-pow! shot right after the "I've got to have a shot..." lyric.

Would love a full 33 1/3 book about this album

jfc @ the video for “velcro fly” (and the song itself)

not sure I’m ready to go in on afterburner, seems intense

Afterburner invented the New Jersey Album.

and then even the title of the next one recycler seems to acknowledge the jig is up lol

Stephen King is obviously a fan of 'Velcro Fly' as he wrote the tune into a section of The Dark Tower.

I think 'Delrious' kinda has a bit of a Prince vibe or I would believe that was a sound they were going to get.

What heaven it is when “planet of women” becomes reality