Northern Soul - what is it?

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Can someone help me identify what exactly Northern Soul is? Those records seem to go for obscene amounts of cash on EBAY. What qualifies something as Northern Soul and what's the best stuff to check out? Thanks, Dan

― Daniel Hewitt, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

imgaine a whole bunch of '60s/early '70s soul that sounds like Motown but not as good and therefore "rare." now imagine a cult that worships it.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

But it was all about resisting The Man down in London and not giving in to trends. Which means you need to start the subgrunge Seattle scene.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Kinda on the mark, with some exceptions. Thornton Sisters, Lou Bond, Leon Haywood all spring to mind. There are a million compilations out there, maybe start with that?

I know a guy who makes a VERY NICE living locating these records in thrift stores and selling them for prices I wouldn't pay for a liver transplant.

― roger adultery, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 01:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I learned a lot about Northern Soul from reading Last Night a DJ Saved My Life.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Same here, actually -- until then I knew the general idea, but not the specifics, and it was an intriguing example of what could be called 'rockism' writ large and put into a social context (and made danceable, so in ways it was the anti-High Fidelity).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds like Motown but not as good

harumpf!
nuther vote for the chapter in Last Night A DJ... book. it was fun finding out Ian 'Frank' Dewhirst's involvement in the scene, since I already admired the guy for Mastercuts, Deep Beats, etc.

you may not need to devote your life to hunting down all the records, but everyone should at least hear the classic ones - some of which like "Tainted Love", "There's Ghost In My House", "Seven Days Too Long" - most of us already know.

it's been mentioned in a thread before, but that Virgin TV double: Best Northern Soul Allnighter In The World Ever! is a great introduction. some great comps on Goldmine too and then there's Kev Roberts book if you want to take it further. Goldmine and John Manship are good sources for the vinyl records/reissues.

― Paul (scifisoul), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

is Kicker northern soul? cause i love Kicker. where's the new album?

― keith (keithmcl), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

delayed

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Paul, I love you.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 05:53 (twenty-two years ago)

not here... not now... not here, not now (sniffle)

― Paul (scifisoul), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, it's Motown but a bit edgier. And better. Go here and get all these: Top 100: Northern Soul songs and then get more and finish off the list.

― Affectian (Affectian), Thursday, 24 July 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i have an old piece i wrote on it on my hard dreive somewhere - it's not the best norther soul aricle ver done, but it's not bad and i can't be arsed to retype it here, so will send it on to ytou if yr email works, ok!?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 24 July 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

jeezis, cna't ufkcing tpye tdoay!!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 24 July 2003 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to see that piece, don't you fancy putting it up on here Dave?

― Ian SPACK (Ian SPACK), Thursday, 24 July 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm about to kick off a new scene here in Edinburgh called Northern NWOBHM where we have a big club playing rare tracks by Saxon, Iron Maiden and the like. Anyone up for it?

― Keith Watson (kmw), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

question: is northern soul unique in that it's a genre defined by where it was listened to rather than by where it was made (Philly soul, etc.), how it relates to another genre ( post-rock, NWONW, NWOBHM, NWOFA), or what it sounds like (er, most everything else) ?

― bucky wunderlick (bucky), Thursday, 24 July 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

no, it's defined by who later collected the records. essentially "northern soul" is anything that got played at northern clubs like wigan casino et al. the chapter on it in last night a dj saved my life really does tell you what you need to know about it. as for the "edgier...and better" comment, HAHAHAHAHA!!!

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 24 July 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean a lot of NS trax ARE good-to-great, and some of those rank with Motown's best (several already mentioned), but as a whole? Motown in its prime was probably the most quality-controlled record label EVER--there was a four-CD Motown box set a few years back that barely scratched the surface; you'd need at least twice that for all the good-to-great singles. I really doubt you could say that about NS, which has as much to do with the fact that most of the artists were one-shots, the labels a lot more fly-by-night, etc....the whole POINT of the scene was how rare the records were, not necessarily how great they were, and while there was a lot more overlap than there probably ought to have been, one /= the other.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 24 July 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, now I'm thinking about my logic above and it's faulty for this reason: considering how many labels et al popped up around the country then (or, hell, now) it's ENTIRELY reasonable to think there are more good-to-great NS records than there are Motown, simply because the numbers favor the former. So points to the believers. I think my larger point stands, though

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 24 July 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, I don't agree. Sure, the NS scene came about through dreary record collector oneupmanship but it doesn't mean that has to define it. If you're gonna do some % stat about best tracks of each then yeah, Motown rules the roost. But if we take the ten best NS tracks and put them against the ten best Motown tracks, I'd prefer the NS - better to dance to (more pounding beat), better vocals (esp the females, I'd chose Etta James over Gladys Knight any day - 'passion' over technique?), more varied sound (put Reggie Garner next to Ruby Andrews and see), and where Motown was pretty slick a lot of the best NS tracks sound rushed, squashing a dozen hooks into one song.

I grew up on Motown and only discovered NS about 2 yrs ago so maybe it's just the novelty that makes me love it more. Either way, they've both got an awesome sound and it's odds on if you like one you'll like the other.

― Affectian (Ian SPACK), Thursday, 24 July 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

a very semantic difference, mm.

it's been years since i read last night, but i'm under the impression that there's nothing inherently non-NS about any number of Motown sides except that they're not obscure enough to have been of interest to the djs.

― bucky wunderlick (bucky), Thursday, 24 July 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

but that's sort of my point, bucky--many NS tracks are in fact straight up Motown ripoffs (I'm exaggerating to make a point, but not by much), and even when the records are great (which plenty of 'em are, absolutely) it's their proximity to Motown w/o actually being Motown that made them attractive to collectors. whereas if you're not familiar w/NS as a concept they just sound like non-Motown Motown records.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 25 July 2003 05:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with MM - it's not so much a genre as a scene.

― Jim Eaton-Terry (Jim E-T), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:05 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not a genre at all, nevber was - by the time the scene itself started the records were already old and deleted, so toward the tail end of its heyday some really dud records were fetching luduicrous prices just becaus they were what were/are knon to be "newies" (not new records but new discoveries) however some good tunes are still beiong turned up - the scene still exists and it's pretty interesting to see/check out now and again. matos i think you're hugely off-beam saying that the whole POINT of the scene was how rare the records were, not necessarily how great they were. you're talking about the collectors and djs here, not the dancers. the scene itself was far more driven by finding records with solid backbeats and soaring vocals to dance off all thoise pharmaceutical-grade amphetamines to, rather than particularly giving a shit abt the raririty value of a record, only problem being working-class northerners, being bit slow on the uptake sometimes (i am one, so this is ok!), co-opted these sounds after they had stopped being made - thus meaning there was a finite supply of music to be mined and as trime went on the records got more obscure. this was just because supplies weere dwindling rather than being the raison d'etre of this movement - after all, way back at the start in the days of the twisted wheel, they were playing pretty big motown records...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 25 July 2003 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i hope that makes sense i am dying from the world's worst hangover today....

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 25 July 2003 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

and thus really cannot type at all...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 25 July 2003 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry if someone's already mentioned it, but some of the biggest Northern Soul records are on Motown (!)
(but weren't the big hits, so yeah we know what yer sayin')

― Paul (scifisoul), Friday, 25 July 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i just did!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 25 July 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't the Northern Soul scene split into two factions, one of whom would play anything if it sounded good - which resulted in some obscure songs that were motown ripoffs by very unhip english acts getting included - though the DJ would often give made up name for it. The other faction essentially staying true to the original approach and rejecting all that nonesense about it being ok if it were fun.

And then there were attempts to get soem fo the original singers out of retirement to record new stuff. I got one comp of stuff like that which just don't cut it.

― tigerclawskank, Friday, 25 July 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it did it was basically split between people like russ winstanley (the former) and folks like keb darge and dave evison (the latter). i actually quite like the fact that some northern tracks are possibly the worst produced records in the world and sound like they were made in a corrugated iron shed, but the songs themselves still work... btw, my piece isn't on my hard drive i'd have to retype it and it's about 3,000 words long so sorry folx!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 25 July 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

It's the 4 hour, 30 years of the Wigan casino sets that I recorded on Sunday night - absolutely amazing stuff.

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

For a further explanation of what is Northern Soul, go to the website "The Northern Soul Night Shift" at:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/stephenbardsley/

Regards
Stephen Bardsley

― Stephen Bardsley, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

six months pass...

thanks Stephen Bardsley!

― Bumfluff, Thursday, 29 July 2004 04:55 (twenty-one years ago)

what I think is interesting is that one of the biggest NS tunes '...Ghost in my house' (see above) sounds to my ears closer to 60s garage punk than soul

― bham, Thursday, 29 July 2004 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

It always seemed to me that were parallels between the NS and 60's garage scenes:

"Shit, no-one really makes this kind of music anymore"
"Well, there IS all this other stuff people more-or-less ignored at the time . ."

― Soukesian, Thursday, 29 July 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.soulsurfin.currantbun.com/soul/topten.htm
not that impressed i have to say .. i always thought i was missing out not knowing too much .. but some of these sound pretty bad to be honest .. suspect that there is some excellent stuff .. but theres just too goddamn many comps !

― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

the kicker album is out this fall. yay.

― keith m (keithmcl), Friday, 30 July 2004 04:17 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

I am reviving this because I like Veronica's question below:

I've always been somewhat befuddled by the term. why
are mostly obscure American soul artists/singles from the '60s and '70s
referred to as such? because a bunch of pilled-up mods from the north
of england championed them? if I bought and hoarded a bunch of
Indonesian gamelan records, and then a bunch of my fellow new yorkers
did the same, and we had parties where we danced and listened to them,
could we call it "New york gamelan"?
what am I missing? can any english people explain this?

-- veronica moser (rp...), May 9th, 2006.

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 10 May 2006 00:05 (nineteen years ago)

According to wiki, Chuck, it's also because the favored artists were of the Detroit-Chicago school as opposed to Memphis.

― pleased to mitya (mitya), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 00:23 (nineteen years ago)

'the war of northern aggression' was already taken

― eff 5, Wednesday, 10 May 2006 01:42 (nineteen years ago)

so I kept on collecting Northern Soul, but the main reason is:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000C83ZL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

my fave comp of the past 3 years...

the music that partly supplanted the original 60's stompers - Ian Levine's progressive policy helped open the scene up to slinkier 70's sounds from Philly, New Jersey & elsewhere. his comp also includes some underground disco classics.

I also like this 6DVD collection, which is really for diehards:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000087I1I.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Paul (scifisoul), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 02:12 (nineteen years ago)

Are those DVDs the ones with latter-day lipsyncs of the old singles?

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 02:38 (nineteen years ago)

yes, but even the arrangements of the originals are sometimes tampered-with/rerecorded! I can see how this would bother people, but the sheer excitement of seeing the original artists get into their neglected classic is worth it for me - plus great interviews with the DJs, journalists & scenemakers.

interestingly, one of my faves The Montclairs - I didn't even notice it wasn't the original backing track - so exhilarating was it to see Phil Perry sing. when I checked back later, I realised my mind had filled in the blanks and allowed me to experience it that way anyway.

also worth the price of admission (but let's have the vinyls - eh, Ian?): new versions of Ian's own productions, of which the standouts for me are Bettye Lavette - "Good Luck" and Archie Bell & The Drells - "Look Back Over Your Shoulder", now sounding MUCH better than the 'Karma-Chameleon esque' original 80's productions...

― Paul (scifisoul), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 02:54 (nineteen years ago)

That Ian Levine comp is the absolute dog's fucking bollocks.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 03:02 (nineteen years ago)

Ask Mark E. Smith. He invented it.

― S- (sgh), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 03:32 (nineteen years ago)

seven years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZKBZ0X5ktk

― Call me Shitmael (CompuPost), Saturday, 30 November 2013 01:45 (twelve years ago)

one year passes...

anyone care to make an educated guess at how many northern soul songs there are?

― NI, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 06:50 (eleven years ago)

or even how many are in this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Northern-Soul-Price-Guide/dp/0953929191 and how comprehensive is it?

― NI, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 06:52 (eleven years ago)

over 25000 apparently

― don't ask me why i posted this (electricsound), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 06:55 (eleven years ago)

thanks! where'd you get that stat from?

― NI, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 07:00 (eleven years ago)

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