Indie 'Ethics' - Classic or Dud

yes and no. theoretically yes, and in bands i have been it has been essential, but in practice perhaps not, the better music can often be made my those that have a vision they want to see through, but then much music is great from collaboration, gang spirit, spinning off each other, perhaps it is like a great football side, you want great people in your team, as long as they are not challenging you for your place in the side

b) promoting a band

i dont know, i can see how musicians are not particularly interested in this, usually this gets delegated out?

c) putting out a band's cd

well, depends, i think if its the curator type label, then no, but a gang label like suburban base was, the collaboration seems important, they were all on each others records, putting on each others events etc

d) writing about a band?

hmm, isnt writing a solitary experience? would the communality be with the bands (in which case risk some alienation from readers?), or communality with the audience? with the bands id have to say no communality otherwise you are just PR? with audience? well, i guess there has to be some communality or perhaps it might seem like they are being hectored or patronised? but probably not a huge amount of communality...

good suggestions all 'round.

a) not necessarily. that's up to the group of people. sometimes, the band really is one person's project and they've got all the ideas. they just need others to help play the instruments and be part of the deal. sure, when you bring any other person into something, you're giving them some ability to alter that central idea, but still. projects happen a lot of ways and enforcing an ethic seems as lame as those punk diy nonprofit purists like propaghandi and so on... their credits accounted for every dollar spent to prove there was no profit. it's overkill.

b) i think it's a lot cheaper to be communal. if you want success, you need ground swell first. i think indie does this out of necessity. major labels can afford to promote via various mass mediums... but indie groups HAVE to do this.

c) see b.

d) eh... it can help to have a clue about a scene and sort of be involved... but i think it can be very useful to have a distance as well. when you're writing about your friends, it becomes really hard to be truly critical. we all love to see our friends succeed. frequently that increases our cred ... so conflicts of interest abound as well. it's one of those reasons why as much as i hate having a very tight budget to buy records to review on the PRL... i think it's fortunate in many ways. being a consumer, i feel the hit when a record sucks. plus i'm not overwhelmed with a stack of 50 new cds in a couple weeks time, most of which might suck, and leave me jaded and fudgemouthed with no taste left for anything that's ACTUALLY good.

i suppose that's a big duality tho. cause on the flipside, promos are cool because you have actually heard record A and record B and perhaps can really have the statistical sample large enough to objectively say, record F actually is the best of the alphabet, while fanboys like me have to just rely on hoping we spidey sense our way to record F.

and what forked stick really brought us to F?
m.

if something is bad, do you want to be told, or would you rather the buck was passed to someone that will give it the good review? if everything gets good reviews, what is to separate journalism from PR? tell the public the truth

i know it's not a conflict of interest for others. but i'm just saying that would i know it's bad or not? critical judgement flawed. bang. no review.

and gareth - the amount of crap i get sent - believe you me - the public does get the truth!

the public must either trust you or not on your opinion. if they believe you about 6 records, they will believe you about the 7th. if you dodge, how will they know. what a person doesnt like is as telling as what they do like, it gives a more rounded picture.

i mean, just as the quantifiable and personal are present in yourself, do you not believe they are not present in your readers. they will have similar things themselves?

(PS. Strongo - I was going to actually type that and laughed when i said 'quantifiable merits'.)

this shd trump everything surely?

gareth - i wade through so much crap you don't want to know. it's heartbreaking. especially for a music lover.

Look! Look! A performing seal! It's so proud! Go on; feed it some fish.

i didnt know you had a lot of hatas doomie, im sorry to hear that (is this something to do with increased profile at nme?)

I'd hate to be hated by you, doomie old chum.

What a pathetic cop out answer. If you don't like thgem have the guts to say so and be unpopular (with all those Darkness fans).

ack. but because i know i can't seperate what i think is *my* truth (personal hatred of must destroy) and the universal truth (are any of those bands worthwhile???)= conflict of interest which at that point i take myself otu of the ball game.
i know it's not a conflict of interest for others. but i'm just saying that would i know it's bad or not? critical judgement flawed. bang. no review.

If you don't believe your opinion is right, you should stop now. There is no universal truth.
If you don't like it it, it _is_ bad.

Your reasons for liking/disliking bands are no more or less petty than other peoples. As those reasons are non-musical in this case you have an opotunity to bring others around to your point of view wheras usually you wouldn't as you can't change how something actually sounds.

So I guess there's an answer in there somewhere.

But when I'm out at a club I'll be fucked if I'm going anywhere near the indie floor.

having just seen the gossip live ... i can safely say that it's all indie rubbish ... my god ...beth is a bona fide star ... she destroys all that indie rubbish ...complete star. arrowe hill is an emi a & r guy's band ... pah ... beth is one sexy thang ...

They were great!

Mmmm bearfoot Beth Ditoo.

but WHAT IS THE BEST PURCHASE TO MAKE AFTER MOVEMENT ... i need to carry on my love ...

Well she's one hell of a little belter and though I know nothing about soul she WILL BE A SUPER STAR!

I said hi after the gig and asked if she got the mix CD I made for them ad yr right, she's really sweet off stage.

I saw PJ Harvey on Friday and she was wierd like that too. During the soundcheck she'd be fiddling with her pedals and talking to the band and crew in the sweetest silliest softest yokel voice then SNAP just switch on the southern midnight sex-death holler. Awesome.

That sound awesome - dude - where was PJ playing???

damn. edan project sounded fine.

And here's a closer view. Note the pink flip flops and very short blue denim dress which were later exchanged for high-heeled leather boots that went half way up her calves and had a metal ring around each ankle bone and a white slowing pixie dress, even shorter than the denim. So short in fact that from the crowd you could see right through the gap between her legs, near the top.

More importantly, did I mention the southern midnight sex-death holler, great band interplay and passionate songs?

http://www.meirion.lewis.btinternet.co.uk/pics/pjsoundcheck.jpg

"Who are you to judge whether I can go anywhere? I'm just suggesting that there are other ways of expressing / understanding it than just spouting the same stuff over and over again, positing certain unarguable buzzwords loaded with mimetic associations that cause most people to shudder backwards and say "oh, soul, well, yes" and turn off any critical discussion that might help us actually understand who we are, what we're doing and why we're here a bit better."

Yer elbow review was like Wuthering Heights.

I've never read Wuthering Heights. Is it good?

and nick, learn to take a little bit of criticism. christ knows i do .. wuthering heights is good - the ending flags alot for my taste.

let's leave this thread about the southern death-hollerers ...

(it makes me laugh though that people come onto this thread and think they are upsetting me ... i just think ... wot a bunch of bizarre net people ...)

but anyways ... ego shmego ... i'm waiting on mei.

[PS Mei was just there for his own enjoyment AFAIK]

(that was funny because that is my saying as well INSTEAD it's WE ARE JUST TWO MIXED UP KIDS IN LOVE ...)

Hm.

I think we should all meet Doomie.

I intended to spend all afternoon wandering around the domes but in the end just did a couple of hours before the gig. I came down on the train to St Austel and after eating lovely fish and chips and realising finding somewhere to stay was going to be too hard I cut my losses, boutght a sleeping bag in Argos (£7.49, bargain) and got the bus to the Eden Project.

Never been before and coming in my draw dropped AND my eyes popped. The bus sort of edged around the top of the roughly bowl shaped valley the EP nestles in and there's a lot of obvious earthwork been done. The domes at the bottom of the valley look HUGE and all the modern buildings and stuff make it look like a dimple on a terraformed moon.

The car parks and bus stops and stuff are near the top of one edge of the valley and called stuff like Apple-1 and Orange-3 making it even more sci-fi, then you zig-zag down the side to the very modern entrance section, still fairly high up like a ski lodge with bars and food and toilets and a shed to locker bags etc. in. Then walk on down and around to the gig sit and the domes near the base of the valley.

The guitar riff of the first track of Songs... was playing as I walked through the entrance section, got my wrist band etc. and I thought it was odd because I've never seen a roady play the main artists songs as a check, they always do Smoke On The Water or something. Then I realised it was actually PJ so I ran down to get closer, taking a couple of photos and generally nosing around flabberghasted. I saw about twenty minutes of her warming up and discussing and trying the setting for various songs, dropping in and out of character and chatting with the band and the technician guys. She had a bit of trouble with one of the other tracks off Songs... it's got her voice echoing at the start and at first she had too short a delay time and too many repeats. One of her guitars had a beer mat taped to the back to cushion her flimsy body from its bulk. After this chunk of sunlit magic she left and we were ushered away so the area in front of the stage could be set up.

That's when I went for a walk around the domes themselves, which seemed much smaller and less impressive on the inside. The temperate zone had tomatoes which I was very tempted to nick but therre were loads of workers around and I didn't want to miss PJ over a warm tomatoe. The tropical zone was a bit hotter but it was so hot outside that day anyway there wasn't really much of a contrast.

Probably great if horticulture is yr thing but I wanted animals running round. I'm sure they could get a few monkeys or swuirrels or something to liven the place up. They had bananas growing in the tropical bit.

I was going to go back in later, during Elbow who were total, total dross - who the hell chose them? - but then I bumped into a few people I know and started chatting.

The gig bit was great but if it had been raining it wouldn've been a nightmare. There's a flattish bit of tarmac that'll hold a couple of thousand ppl surrounded by fairly steep grass banking which would be a mud slide in the wet.

What else?

( But only if it's illegal, innit)

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