Are all non-classic Rolling Stones records underrated?

It's Only Rock and Roll- Classic. "If You Can't Rock Me", "Ain't Too Proud To Beg", title track, "Luxury", "Fingerprint File"- all gems.

Black and Blue- this one is a bit spotty (imo) but "Hey Negrita" and the "Cherry Oh Baby" cover are cool.

I own nothing after Tatoo You, but it seems that Undercover has been defended valiantly on this board.

POO: Rolling Stones post-1978
Post-"Tattoo You" Stones: S/D

Goats Head Soup: Not even close to my favorite Stones album but I genuinely enjoy Dancing w/ Mr. D, Doo Doo Doo, Angie (though I gotta be in the mood for it) and Star Star I knwo my buddy loves Winter.

Its Only Rock and Roll: But I like it... Aint too Proud to Beg, If You Can't Rock Me, Title Track, Dance Little Sister, and Fingerprint File all fucking rule. THIS is a great Stones album, and one I'd argue for being underrated. Perhaps overlooked for coming between Exile and Some Girls.

Black and Blue: One of my least favorite Stones albums. Does nothing for me, though I won't bash Memory Motel and Fool to Cry, but if the album never existed, they'd be no worse for it I don't think.

Love you Live: Worst version of Tumbling Dice EVER

Some Girls: Obviously classic, as you noted above...

Emotional Rescue: I could see this as being underrated... the title track, She's So Cold, INdian Girl, Dance (PT 1) are all good. Aside from that its a little forgettable I suppose, but I'm glad I've heard it.

Tattoo You: N/A

Still Life: I don't hate it, strangely... but I guess its not well loved.

Undercover: She Was Hot was good... and Wanna Hold You is as catchy a post-Tattoo song as you're gonna get. Have honestly forgotten most of the rest of the album.

Dirty Work: In my mind will ALWAYS be underrated, just because it has the fantastic cover of Harlem Shuffle. That, and my other memory fond of the album will always be ILM poster Adam Harrison-Friday singing the chorus to "One Hit to the Bah-Tay". I think I came to like this album so much because AHF always called it their worst one (and rightfully so, I suppose) and I had to keep listening to it to find something good. Thank god for Harlem Shuffle.

Steel Wheels: Best Stones album of the 80's. Sad Sad Sad, Mixed Emotions (Fucking GREAT GREAT GREAT song), Hearts for Sale, Rock adn a Hard Place, Slipping Away kick major ass. THIS is an extremely underrated album.

Flaspoint: Its live, its alright... it gets what it deserves.

Voodoo Lounge: Mediocre, but has "You Got me Rockin" which really has got me rockin. Through and Through is good on that, as well.

Stripped: Extremely cool, has gotten its due praise. Love Street Fightin Man on that one.

Bridges to Babylon: Was a good album, but past Anybody Seen My Baby, Saint of Me, Out of Control, Flip the Switch its forgettable.

No Security: My my, somebody loves live albums... I MUCH prefer the Bridges to Babylon DVD, which features the outrageously sexy Lisa Fischer.

Basically, aside from Some Girls/Tattoo You... Its Only Rock and Roll, Steel Wheels are the two best post-Exile studios. Anyone who dismisses the band for being washed up after Exile is unfairly underrating these. No truly awful albums, although the live ones could all go. They haven't held up to the "Big Four" era, but thats only expected. I'd fairly call most of the later ones underrated by man. But thats enough from me.

"Do all of these records get short shrift simply because they're compared to the all-time heights of the late 60s/early 70s?"

I guess this is true, but why wouldn't people compare a band's low points to the same band's high points? Isn't that a valid method of evaluating the work? Anyway, I think critics in the years between Exile and Some Girls desperately wanted a good Stones record and in some cases may have even been too lenient towards those albums for that very reason (also because they didn't want to get burned the way so many were with Exile, thinking it was shit at first then changing their minds later). (I'm making a lot of this up by the way; is that allowed?).

There are definitely good moments on Goats Head Soup, It's Only Rock 'n' Roll, and Black and Blue, and their being completely devoid of mattering is actually what kind of appeals about them now: they're records full of okay Stones riffs, basically, but really nothing more. I mean, does the song "It's Only Rock 'n' Roll" say ANYthing? (Must it?) Black and Blue is second-tier Ohio Players and Only Rock 'n' Roll is second tier T-Rex, which is both what's good and what's lacking about them (Goats Heads Soup is mainly just shit, unfortunately).

Good tracks I can think of from these three records: "Angie," "Star Star," "Luxury," "Hot Stuff," "Fool to Cry," "If You Can't Rock Me"...

I gave Dirty Work a good review once, but it's really not any good. "Harlem Shuffle" and "One Hit to the Body" are two of their very worst singles. Don't know the other later albums, but "Mixed Emotion" is an okay track.

i just bought "black and blue," was initially quite disappointed. "cherry oh baby" is kind of appealing in its utter incompetence (for a band that usually tackled different genres pretty confidently). the ballads are of course fine, thought i prefer "fool to cry" to the oft-revived "memory motel."

"mixed emotions" is great.

Goats Head Soup: Winter (that's the essential song here).
It's Only R&R: Time Waits for No One, Fingerprint File, Dance Little Sister, etc. One of the best post-"Exile" albums.
Black & Blue: Melody NEVER gets mentioned.
Love You Live: Mannish Boy (this is a pretty lame album).
Some Girls: Far Away Eyes
Emotional Rescue: Indian Girl, Send it to Me, the title track. This is a pretty good album.
Tattoo You: The whole thing, especially Waiting on a Friend.
Still Life: blah.
Undercover: Check the whole album.
Dirty Work: One Hit to the Body. Maybe Sleep Tonight too.

Once it gets past "Dirty Work" I think the best songs on the albums tend to be sung by Keith.
Steel Wheels: Slipping Away, Can't Be Seen.
Flashpoint: I've only listened to this once.
Voodoo Lounge: Thru and Thru.
Stripped: best post-"Undercover" album. Most of it is very good.
Bridges to Babylon: You Don't Have to Mean It, Thief in the Night, Flip the Switch, How Can I Stop.

So the best albums are "It's Only R&R," "Black and Blue," "Some Girls," "Emotional Rescue," "Tattoo You," and "Undercover." "Stripped" is worth hunting down too. The rest are only worth it for certain tracks.

Mercy Mercy (LOVE Keith's little guitar wink in this one)
Hitch Hike (which Velvet Underground song rips this one off again?)
The Last Time (The best of the early Jagger/Richards compositions. It all hinges on Keef's circular guitar riff. The Glass Candy cover of this (which came out on Love Love Love this year), is nearly as good, but way different cuz it turns it into a dub track! Totally removes the guitar riff and just makes it this shapeless wail. Amazing stuff)
That's How Strong My Love Is (Along with "You Left the Water Running," this is my favorite Otis track. I love how Mick thinks he's doing a Southern accent when he sings this one: my = mah, is = ees. The way he does this track is 100% the basis of how I sing every Stones song (runner up in this regard: How Mick says "Keentuckeeeee Derrrrrrby Daaaaaaaay" in Dead Flowers))
Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man (Playfully mean, which makes it all the more believable. Nastier than "Sympathy")
Play With Fire (The first ballad attempt, yeah? Very awkward. I love it for that reason)

Those are the tracks that kill me. Other songs on my version: Good Times, I'm All Right, Cry to Me, Spider and the Fly, One More Try.

Best song on Goat's Head Soup: 100 Years Ago! Mick does Van Morrison!

Anyway, I've posted on this thread subject a million times on the many other threads devoted-to-it/when-it's-come up. Really been loving Steel Wheels and Voodoo Lounge for the last few years. Voodoo Lounge has some really great songs - less bombastic arrangements and a more intimate sound than Steel Wheels, but it expertly and judiciously expands the musical palette when called for (see the fiddle on "The Worst", the subtle string arrangement on "Out of Tears", the accordion on "Sweethearts Together"...) It gets docked a notch, though, for being overlong. Damn CD era.

Ronnie is playing some very nice steel these days.

Both those records are invested with better songwriting and greater emotional range than anything they did in the 80's.

I really like Tattoo You, Some Girls, and Goat's Head Soup (why has no one mentioned the great "1000 Years Ago"??)

and Emotional Rescue is great.

I don't think I've ever even heard Undercover all the way through.

The rest aren't even worth discussing, really.

"Fans have been abuzz this fall with word that famed rock band the Rolling Stones have made a “good” album (Tattoo You), as opposed to a “bad” album (such as last year’s Emotional Rescue). Buzz aside, however, no one has been able to explain why Tattoo You is a “good” album, save that it is generally agreed to sound “pretty good”. Announcing the Rolling Stones current American tour at an August 26 Philadelphia press conference, lead singer Mick Jagger denied that the good/bad consensus pointed to a “new artistic rhythm” in the work of the band. “Chacun a son gout, but really”,he said. “All right, Some Girls was good, Emotional Rescue was bad, this one’s good, I agree – though this one’s nowhere nearly so good as Some Girls. But don’t forget – between Exile on Main Street, which was a great album, and Some Girls, we came up with four bad albums, and a couple of those were terrible. Consumer Protection Agency investigations, class action suits, the whole bit. But anyway, “Jagger went on, “everybody will have forgotten about this one in six months. Sure it sounds ‘pretty good’, and it’s even got a ‘rockin’ side, and a ‘dreamy’ side, just like those ‘oldies but goodies’ lps, but I defy anyone to find a single song – what’s it called again? Oh yeah, Tattoo You, thanks – with a , as Sartre would have said, raison d’etre. L’enfer, c’est les autres, you know? We could have done these songs, or we could have not done them. Who’s know the difference? What people want is product. To assert that a tune carefully constructed out of half forgotten Rolling Stones hits for the sole purpose of assuaging the listener with a sense of familiarity disguised as high-tech contemporaneity could possibly be compared in terms of emotional impact or social metaphor to a record on the level of Elmore James’ ‘Done Somebody Wrong’ is merely to reify the sort of false consciousness that may well make revolution in our time impossible,” said Jagger, demonstrating the breath control that has made him a singing sensation on five continents.
Pulling himself together, Jagger pointed out that “the eighties are here”, and that he was therefore abandoning his “oldfashioned sixties habit” of dropping pretour hints that “this time” the Rolling Stones might surprise their huge audience with something “new and different”. “We’re going to do what we’ve always done”, Jagger said, “and when we’re finished, we’re going to do it again. Forever.”
The Response of KMET, the Los Angeles FM radio outlet that was broadcasting Jagger’s words live, was all too real. The station immediately scheduled an eight hour “Stones Special” for August 28 – a marathon that, at least for the two hours during which I remained within its signal range, was characterized principally by a nearly complete avoidance of any material more than five years old. This policy was perhaps predicated on demographic research indicating that a good proportion of KMET’s audience was not born when the Rolling Stones began recording in 1963 – there being no reason to clutter the airwaves with music that, might serve only to confuse many clear-thinking young men and women with unfamiliar sounds, arcane references, or outmoded values."

You cld slice off the gd songs from Keith's solo recs to make a pretty decent Stones lp, or compile a really gd 'best of' from the 'Steel Wheels' and after albs.

So they kind of retrenched, Mick and Keith apparently had a kind of rapprochement, and they got down to putting more effort into the songs, and attempted to use a little imagination in the arrangements. It may have ended up giving Steel Wheels a more "adult" patina or something - I'll grant you that while not giving a shit. It makes for a more sonically rich and rewarding record. And as long as Charlie's playing drums the records will retain some bite. And like I said, Ron's been working on his playing (his slide playing on "The Worst" is just beautiful).

"Some Girls" is pretty weak, too, I never understood why it was called a classic. The terrible production ruins it for me. "Tattoo You" seems lazy, I'll agree with that assessment. Though "Waiting On a Friend" is a classic.

I have "It's Only Rock and Roll" and "Voodoo Lounge", those are my favorites from this era.

I wonder...if the Stones had debuted in '73, never having released anything pre-"Goat's Head Soup", how would they be regarded? I think as a reasonably competent rock band, but nothing special overall. And probably playing festivals with Savoy Brown or something...

All you people in New York Cityah! I know you're all goin' broke! Yah HOTTT.

Side one took a longer to grow on me. I'll agree w/ the "lazy, tossed off" charge but that's kind of what i dig about it. I've got these "Paris outtakes" from the SomeGirls/ Emotional Rescue era full of great songs (sketches, really). I've always lamented the fact that none benefitted from proper studio treatment . I guess some of TY reminds me of those ("Slave" comes to mind), except fully realized.

My primary misgivings with the Stones post- Tatoo You* are production-related. It just doesn't sound good, in my infinitely humble opinion. Did they have weak tunes prior to 1980? Sure. But the irksome production (Im thinking more Dirty Work, Bridges to Babylon than Voodoo Lounge here) of their more recent works only exacerbates their weaknesses.

*I'll reserve judgement on Undercover, as I've only heard "She Was Hot" and the title track...

Now. Somebody show some love for Some Girls . Best pool hall juke box record ever...

"Emotional Rescue", "Black and Blue", "Undercover", "Tattoo You", "Dirty Work" etc are not without the odd gem... but they are few and far between. And looking for them can be hard work...

As a long-time Stones fan I've always been rather partial to "Mixed Emotions" from "Steel Wheels". One of the best late-era Stones songs.

steve - "Faraway Eyes" was one of the songs I was thinking of in disparaging Some Girls! Really, though I was just being "provocative". Something about the thread just bummed me out, because no one had really mentioned the 90s stuff and everyone had just accepted the thread's premise that Some Girls and Tattoo You were just obviously classic. Who decided that? Anthony DeCurtis or something? What happened to examining received rock-crit norms? Those two records house their biggest post-Exile hits, sure! But do they really hold up as albums you want to throw on and enjoy all the way through? Anyway, I tried to throw out a couple thoughts to add to thread, only to be followed up with a dismissive "they aren't worth discussing." I apologize for snapping at Roger, but I honestly wonder if he's examining his own opinions at times.

Of course I don't think Some Girls "sucks", but it is true that I never play it. I suppose that could be partially due to overexposure, sure. Still, "Miss You" and "Shattered" were fresh and inspired and still sound great to me. "Beast of Burden" I've never liked though. Ever. I just don't like Mick's vocal or the lyrics, and christ it seems like it goes on forever. "Just My Imagination" is an ok performance but it's yet another Motown cover so that's lazy. Even taken as a rocker, "Some Girls" just plods and needless to say sounds embarassing today. When the Stones did "Dear Doctor" and "Country Honk" they sounded lively and novel; "Dead Flowers" and "Torn and Frayed" were poignant and affecting; but "Far Away Eyes" just sounds pointless and parodic.

I don't know. It's still a great record - "When the Whip Comes Down" KILLS - I just never feel like listening to it.

Props to sucka! You and I seem on the same wavelenght w/r/t these guys. Though I usually avoid Undercover for most of the reasons you like it. But that's cool man - you know why you like it! Good on ya. I often just find the record suffocating, but I occasionally find it enjoyable to bathe in all that bile, to get into the vicious headspace of that record... And yeah, "Emotional Rescue" is one of my all time favorite songs of theirs as well.

Plus, The Stones are not the kinda band I get white-knuckled about either way, and if the imminent carpal tunnel syndrome can be held off a bit by me not replying frivolously to every debate, so be it.

Part of the reason I like Black and Blue so much is it sounds as clear as glass. For something taped almost 50 years ago it's extra impressive - I feel it should be some sort of yardstick for analogue recording idk.

I agree. Kudos to that mix. Charlie and those guitarists sound great!

It also really helps in why I think Cherry Oh Baby works, in its admittedly obtuse way. Charlie has clear problems relaxing for a reggae beat but if that's the case you might as well heighten this contrast until (hopefully) the effect becomes something else. Every beat of the drum, slide of the cymbal, sounds so sharp-edged that it suits the stiffness well, and pronounces the sudden silences and rhythmic dropouts even further. Mechanical reggae years before On-U Sound !

God, "Hand of Fate" is a sexy-ass song.

haha that G Marcus quote upthread is amazing

Part of the reason I like Black and Blue so much is it sounds as clear as glass. For something taped almost 50 years ago it's extra impressive - I feel it should be some sort of yardstick for analogue recording idk.

as someone born the year this record came out, this post briefly hurt me to my core to be reminded of the number of years that has passed.

I recently realised I unconsciously take about ten years off everything whose distance in time feels wrong. Because 38 years makes more sense than 48.

Pretty sure “Black and Blue” is my most listened to Stones album at this point. It’s kind of the perfect barbecue in backyard background music. “Hand of Fate” is upper echelon material.

Just spun it thinking of it as chill BBQ/Khruangbin/Mdou Moctor grooves, and yeah! I'd forgotten that it's annoying that there's no track list on the jacket or sleeve, only on the label. But that underscore that they're not crafting songs so much as vibes.