What to make of Neil Young's "Greendale?"

It's been covered a couple of times here, but I'm too lazy to search out the links.

It's a grower, and a very good but not great record. I agree that it is sort of a brand new animal made of old parts. Your reaction is, I think, typical.

The movie got a pretty good notice in NYTimes Toronto film fest article yesterday.

I won't link them all individually, but this thread from a couple weeks ago has Dastoor linking to the other 4 threads about Greendale, a couple posts down:

'Greendale' - what do we think?

Monotonous as hell; not a hook in sight. Blues drone, beginning to end -- listening to this and thatnew *On the Beach* reissue over the weekend made me think that Neil might actually BE a blues artist, which is something that never occured to me before. (And *On the Beach* is way way way better, as is *Reactor,* which also just got reissued. Back-to-back play proved this to me.) But but but, thing about *Greendale* is, it's still pretty entertaining to listen to (once, maybe twice, MAYBE more than twice thought I can't vouch) in the CAR, if you have to drive for three hours and don't have to go too fast. There's an actual STORY to the damn thing, and you can indeed follow it -- which is more than I could say for, like, *The Wall* or *Operation Mindcrime* or *OK Computer* (assuming that last one was a concept album - -I forget) or maybe even *Tommy*, who knows. Best character: the grandpa who dies on the porch and doesn't like anything on TV except *Leave it To Beaver.* It's also pretty funny when the girl whose older brother goes to jail for shooting that cop 'cause of the cocaine in his glovebox and weed in his trunk winds up strapping herself to the beak of an eagle statue at the top of some corrupt corporation's building. Lamest song: the first one on the record. Prettiest song: the last one. Better than the My Morning Jacket album, which despite at least a COUPLE catchy songs (tracks 2, 3, 5) turns into complete amorphous Blood Sweat and Tears horns Up With People chorus retard moosh about six songs in (okay, on track seven or eight there's an okay guitar part, big deal.) And *Greendale is also better than Warren Zevon's latest album, which peaks with its very first song (the only track that could suggest to an innocent bystander what exactly there is to miss about the damn guy) but in the interest of good taste (plus I fucking really DO miss the damn guy) I won't complain about the corny-assed song about partying all night long or the even cornier Springsteen backup on track #2 or those absolutely anti-climactic "open up open up"'s at the end of that completely pointless "Knockin on Heaven's Door," or point out that nothing's even half as good as his hockey song from last year. Best Neil Young album of 2002? Probably either Party of One or Grandpa's Ghost. Hard to say, but I'm leaning toward Party of One.

Chuck is OTM except for Reactor which is as bad as almost anything he's ever done. No way is it better than Greendale.

>Lamest song: the first one on the record.

This is indeed the single biggest problem and a typical Young perversion.

[Agnostic on Re.Ac.Tor]

And I'll check out Party of One on your recommendation, Chuck, but it better kick or I'll remind you of the time you tried to claim some country album was hot by saying it was better than Costello's *Almost Blue.*

*Reactor* is the best Neil LP I've heard since *Rust Never Sleeps*, give or take *Trans.* It's his heaviest album ever (okay, maybe not counting that Metal Machine Music thing he did a few years back), and it actually has a groove to it, for crissakes. Plus it's very funny.

Re: Neil album of the year. Maybe Drive By Truckers count, too; I dunno. They never actually *sound* like Neil Young, as far as I can remember, though maybe I'm being dense. (Does "Birmingham" have Crazy Horse style guitar? Maybe. But that was last year.) But they talk about him. (But that was last year too, so never mind, maybe.)

I actually put *Almost Blue* in my top ten back in 1981 (in college) or whatever year that was. I think it's just that I had never heard most of those songs before. ("A Good Year for the Roses," "Success," what else? "Hot Burrito Number Something Or Other," I guess. "Tonight the Bottle Let Me Down," maybe? I think he sang that one even worse than Cracker do.) His inability to sing them somehow didn't bother me.

Also re *Reactor*: That song "Shots" is fucking INTENSE, man. It always reminded me of Detroit, for some reason. (And that album had other Detroit stuff on it, too. I'm a sucker for that, sometimes.)

I dig it. "Falling From Above" is a fine song, in the Ragged Glory style, I think. I agree much of it is same-y - similar tempos, riffs - you can basically sing "How can all these people / afford so many things" over almost every riff on the album. But I really like it, especially in the car. It slays ReAcTor, which I hate. Neil is still king.

All that said, since you mention the Truckers, Decoration Day slays anything Neil's done since Ragged Glory. THAT album, my friends, is quite possibly the best of the year (along with the Keith Hudson reissue, Dizzee's album, and the new Hella EP...).

I want to return to Chuck's comment about the story, as compared to other concept records. He's right on - how many so-called "concept records" are actually parseable as stories? Hell, the Wall movie isn't even a story.

The story is a huge part of Greendale's impact. I'll be damned - Neil actually does a hell of a job creating characters and a setting that you begin to feel for. He sure as heck breathes life into those dull two-chord vamps.

Agreed. I myself have a bit of a crush on Sun Green.

Chuck -- you've nailed my biggest problem with Greendale ... there's no like real *songs* on it, except for maybe two. But, yup, lyrics are fun. You almost get the sense he's goofing on environmentalists more than anything. So you wanna love it, but you can't, becuase of the one-chord, tuneless shit that makes too much of the record. DBT absolutely is the best Neil album of the year -- some kick-ass rock pathos stuff on there.

And I have to respectfully disagree on MMJ ... I like that record, with the exception of a couple things in the middle which stretch out way too long or get plain dumb. Jim James is a really good songwriter, and his use of reverb is pretty exciting, considering the genre. May wind up in my top 10 for the year.

And Re*ac*tor, Chuck? With the exception of "Shots," a personal Neil fave of mine, that album blows! Zuma and Ragged Glory are the best of the Crazy Horse workouts. Best of the reissues is On The Beach by a mile, followed by American Stars & Bars.

>Jim James is a really good songwriter<

How the hell can you *tell*, through that mushmouth of his*? (I'm not kidding; even in the songs I LIKE, I have no idea what the words are.)

* -- assuming he is in fact also the singer; I never checked.

Also: "Opera Star," "T-Bone," "Southern Pacific," "Motor City," and Rrrrrapidd Trrrrransit" do not "blow" by any stretch of the imagination. I forget what *Ragged Glory* sounds like, though.

And I still get stars and bars and hawks and doves mixed up. (Hey, I never said I was an EXPERT or anything. I just know what I like. And I know that Neil fans quite often settle for mere professionalism. I tend to like him better when he gets *weird*, I think. Plus it's nice when once in a while he decides to have a sense of rhythm -- I always wished he did more Stones-shape things like "Mr. Soul.". But I notice nobody's argued with me yet about *Trans*. Which is lovely, I swear.)

Oh, forgot that T-Bone's on that record too. K, beyond that, it's just not his most inspired song-set. Ragged Glory has this really clean but massive sound, like they're jamming on an empty stage in the middle of a football field, and the songs and the soloing are just killer. As a guitarist, Neil was just on.

Yeah, with MMJ, takes a while to get use to the distracting vocal reverb ... requires sitting down with the lyric sheet, kinda how you gotta do it with some of Dylan's "Infidels" and "Love and Theft." James (who, yes, does sing) does a lot of lost-soul, tear-in-my beer stuff, which helps sustain some of the longer, more stretched-out, nine-minute long shit.

(And I will also admit right here that I've made no real attempt to keep up with the old coot for the past couple decades. Which would be pointless. And why it's such a surprise that *Greendale* drew me in.)

chuck is completely OTM t/o. first of all they showed zevon and his studio buddies singing that "party the rest of the night" (or whatever) song as the ending of that vh1 documentary. ack. i plugged my ears and thought good thoughts like, "he looks like he's having fun."

i iked 1/2 of "reactor" upon hearing it, but i can't say i go back to it ever. although maybe that's because i have it on cassette.

i was sort of astonished that the miniatures in "greendale" actually hold up as storytelling. I always figured young's flakiness would defeat him here as elsewhere. as for the music, he hasn't really written a good hook for a decade now so what was everyone expecting? the hookiest songs on his recent albums all seem to have 1980s/early 90s copyrights.

i'm saving "trans" for a rainy day.

American Stars and Bars has "Like a Hurricane" and "Star of Bethlehem" on it. Hawks and Doves is half hardcore country with a fiddler named Rufus Thibodeaux; it also marks Young's first foray into Reaganism.

And Trans is my fave Neil record. Songs on it are just amazing. His weird records (and I'm including the '70s Horse records, which didn;t bother with things like tuning) are the most inspired.

There was a period of about 10 years where Young WAS completely irrelevant, and he's been bordering on that again with the erractic recent offerings (Silver & Gold -- yes, Are You Passionate -- no, Broken Arrow -- hell no). So indifference is understandable. I just happened to discover Neil in the middle of the grunge explosion, which happened when I was still in high school. He was making amazong albums during that period, so I guess I caught the bug by osmosis.

For more strong opinions on the new Neil Young, Warren Zevon, and My Morning Jacket albums (okay, less so Neil Young maybe), see below:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0337/christgau.php

I always think my tastes and critical view are in line with the high-brow elite writers ... and then shit shows up as Dud of the Month. :-)

Then again, I'm not that big on the Zevon record -- good jokes, bad songs. So one man's feast ...

I kinda dig the new CG format, btw. Makes Honorable Mention more enjoyable to read.

Best not to trust the opinion of ANYone who enjoys Kimya Dawson on any level whatsoever. I swear to Christ I'd rather listen to Russell Crowe's band.

I love Neil Young, and I'm not claiming that Re Ac Tor is his best album or anything, but I do think its a great album, one that I return to again and again. I play it a lot more than some of his other stuff that I theoretically rate more highly. It's not as though it's some wild stylistic departure like some of his later genre experiments either. Cool production, too!

Kimya Dawson? ick...

Re: Broken Arrow, I like 3 songs on that one: "Scattered", "Big Time", and "Music Arcade". Those songs hold up wonderfully. The album's a mess though, and unless I'm mistaken it's the first one he made in ages w/o David Briggs, who had died the year before. Maybe that's one reason...

>I tend to like him better when he gets *weird*

Stubborn, John Lee Hooker-ish two chord drones are the latest weird from Young. Enough of a shift for me. Like Hooker (plus that rasp voice), grows on you.

"Danger Bird" is my very favorite song. Any other stoner Canadian exiles feelin' me?

Hah, everyone was lobbing the same criticisms at On The Beach first time round (no tunes! not like Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere!). Greendale is clearly bonkers and brilliant; Son House meets Robert Ashley.

Wow - great analogy Marcello. With one sentence you've ensured I have to hear this thing.

Chuck should like it then because he made the great "South Bound Suarez" / Perfect Lives connection!

Son House would reach for his bottle of hooch if he was forced to listen to this thing. The lyrics are simply, plainly awful. Young has turned into the sort of cranky old coot you try to escape from at family reunions. I am amazed that anyone could even get through the whole thing ONCE, let alone repeated listens. To compare it to 'On The Beach'--when Young was actually involved with the world of the living, no matter how much it frightened and repulsed him--is a bad joke.

but WWRAD?

Okay, so I've heard Party of One's "Caught the Blast" and while I tentatively like it after one go-through and am sure that "Snap You Like a Twig" is a dandy name for a lead-off cut, I don't hear how it's a Neil Young album.

You have to see the show to fully appreciate Greendale.

agree with max. I saw the show before i heard the album. The 3 and a half songs were meh, but then it got really good REALLY fast. he does a lot more melodic harmonica and guitar riffing live than he does on the cd. the cd is very tame musically. even the enclosed DVD of him is better musically than the dvd.

it IS cheesy, the songs go on sometimes forever, but the lyrics make it listenable. Nothing on the CD versions of the songs stands out, but when you put it all together, it works. if i just had the cd, I wouldn't rate this album very highly, but hearing the live versions, I consider this one of his best collections to date.