Eminem is ruining hip-hop production

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Let's talk about Eminem as a producer. What is he doing pushing those non-funky rock beats on his own and Obie Trice's album? Some of his tracks are great (Lose Yourself is a definite winner, duh) but that lame rock sound has to go before it takes over and ruims hip-hop as a funky music.

― JoB (JoB), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Lose Yourself is terrible, in my opinion

I heard everyone talking about what a great track it was, then I finally heard it and thought it was shit. =/

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Lose Yourself, the em production I hated was The Cross off of Nas's last one....butt-ass stiff classical faux harpsichord yuckiness with no swing its step whatsoever...also notable for Nas taking his "I-am-the-most-important-rapper-ever" meglomaniacal b.s. to new heights...

Did em produce, Without Me? I like that disco beat.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think he's just doing those kind of beats at all though,i mean
maybe he is doing a lot of them (i've only heard lose yourself,in which i though the production worked really well,and that aerosmith one,which wasn't so good) but have you heard that redman track he did?

― robin (robin), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

the obie trice track that is currently making the rounds on WJLB is fantastic.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i haven't heard anything by obie trice other than the track sampled at the start of without me,which i only heard once but i remember thinking it was good
amazed it didn't become huge,what a sly gimmick,sample the chorus of an up and coming artist on a track that's obviously going to get loads of airplay

― robin (robin), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

...Nas taking his "I-am-the-most-important-rapper-ever" meglomaniacal b.s. to new heights

How do you feel Nas measures up to JayZ?

― Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 25 September 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Jay-Z actually SOUNDS IMPORTANT when he talks his shit, that's the difference

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

that discussion doesn't belong here. it belongs here.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking especially of Don't Come Down and the risable Never Forget Ya on the Cheers album.

― JoB (JoB), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

don't think i've heard either of them...
i'd be disappointed if he did go in the direction of the kind of rockier production though,given how good the redman track was,i hoped that was a sign of things to come

― robin (robin), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't want to get into Jay-z vs Nas, but I guess what I meant is that I liked Nas's "I-am-the-most-important-rapper-ever" b.s. when he was the most important rapper (when Illmatic came out)....but now he's not, and imo been slipping lyrically for years.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

how is Got Some Teeth a rock beat?

― ejad (daje), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I like "Lose Yourself" as a song, but not so much for the beat, and I wasn't really feeling the goth-metal guitar stuff on the Eminem Show that I've heard, but he seems to have a deeper bag of tricks than just that stuff. Jay's "Renegade" and 50's "Poor Lil Rich" are pretty hot beats. I didn't think much of that Redman song, though.

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 26 September 2003 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

So's Kanye's "A Dream", sort of. But I'm big on neither this aesthetic nor "Lose Yourself", and "Without Me" got pretty annoying though I'm not sure if that had more to do w/ production or flow.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 26 September 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Lose Yourself sucks. Square Dance? Drips?

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 26 September 2003 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

This is kind of a false premise, don't you think? I mean, rock guitars in rap songs? Is that new?

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 26 September 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont think the suggestion is that there has never been guitars in rap before,merely that at the moment one of the most high profile people in rap is using a lot of guitars in his production,which could lead to others doing so,which is not a direction JoB would like to see hip hop go in...
not wanting to speak for him,of course,but that was what i took the premise to be...

― robin (robin), Friday, 26 September 2003 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't care about guitars. I was talking beats. That are not funky.

― JoB (JoB), Friday, 26 September 2003 07:27 (twenty-two years ago)

how is Got Some Teeth a rock beat?

It is not. But Sing For The Moment is, and those Obie Trice tracks I mentioned.

― JoB (JoB), Friday, 26 September 2003 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

his smartest production: renegade
his most competent: many men
his most promising: got some teeth
his most interesting: i see dead people/square dance
his most limited: the cross
his best: without me

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 26 September 2003 07:36 (twenty-two years ago)

ack, Many Men isn't even competent, it's a clunky, weak approximation of 'gritty' NYC piano loop boom bap.

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 26 September 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

But he sounds so good over huge, simple, heavy, relentless, militant beats. Possibly because his flow (can be) so syncopated and funky. I wouldn't necessarily want it to become the norm but it works for him.

Renegade is funky.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

i didn't know he produced renegade
that was a good production alright

― robin (robin), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, i just read this http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1479321/20030925/2pac.jhtml?headlines=true and I take back every nice thing I said, fuck him

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Why doesn't Eminem do guest raps? If he did a single with Justin Timberlake, it would be huge.

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Justin's too good for him.

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I Carry the Cross is the shit. and so is Doo-Rags. and Renegades. what's up with Jay-Z retiring, & will his parting shot be enough to perpetually ass out the prophet Nastradamus? Legacy! Retire Undefeated! It's how Big shoulda done!
what's up with that?

― autovac (autovac), Sunday, 28 September 2003 08:36 (twenty-two years ago)

He has done guest raps. "Forgot About Dre" and "Busa Rhyme" by Missy.

― Nick H, Sunday, 28 September 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Eminem's a great producer. He produced 4 tracks on the Tupac Resurrection. The single "Runnin' (Dying to live)" is on that doom laden "Amityville" vibe.

― Michael B, Thursday, 30 October 2003 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I still contend a Justin/Eminem single would destroy the Western hemisphere.

― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"Runnin' (Dyin' To Live)" is terrible, in concept and execution. lousy beat, and why is Em suddenly jocking the sped-up-vocal-sample-hook thing?

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

because sped-up vocal hooks rule? (n.b. I have not heard "Runnin'")

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

no they DO NOT rule.

what's that kanye song with the sped up hook? great song otherwise, but so annoying.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Through the Wire....what a great track.

My favorite Kanye track is "In Cold Blood" off of the Scarface album..."The Fix"

― ddrake, Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Was that it? It was a Kanye solo joint and I think it was more of a love song. Could be wrong.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Through the Wire is the Kanye track I see on TV all the time...its not really a love song. But it does show some "awwwwwww" cute video footage of Kanye when he was like 8. He also kisses his Chaka Khan poster.

― ddrake, Thursday, 30 October 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Jordan in cluelessness shoc...oh what's the use

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 October 2003 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

lose yourself was the first and worst of his non-breaks drum patterns...
personally, i find the neptunes to be closer to 'ruining hip hop production'...
their productionis too clean, uses no scratching, no looping, lots of live instrumentation, same guitar and drum sounds...a far cry from timbaland's weird synth stuff, which was going somewhere.

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 30 October 2003 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn Matos...I love Kanye and I love Em's productions, but whenever I hear the sped-up vocal hook thing I just find it so distracting that it's all I can listen to. The one on that Killer Mike tune grew on me, but it took awhile. Perhaps you would care to clue me the fuck in, then?

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 30 October 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

po-faced anything (like say "no they DO NOT rule" frown frown serious serious) always gets the ire out of me. sorry.

I'm a huge fan of squeak-vox hooks in large part because they're a staple of breakbeat hardcore, and in dance music generally. adds to the excitement-value of it lots of times. whereas lots of hip-hop fans (not necessarily you Jordan) dislike it because, I'll wager, it's too friggin' girly. bor-ing.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 October 2003 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

(and yes I am aware I'm ascribing the po-facedness to a statement that may not have been made in that spirit, apologies again)

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 October 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

S'all good. Yeah, I didn't mean to come across as didactic or anything, and now I'll most likely hear things a little differently the next time I come across it.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 30 October 2003 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

aw hugz!

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 30 October 2003 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Em made a guest appearance on Dead Wrong with Biggie a few years back. So I guess he has made a couple of cameos.

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Friday, 31 October 2003 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

well, this new fake Big/Pac collabo is really just an extension of the same revisionist history act that was that "Born Again" album. i dunno, does it seem dodgy to anyone else to posthumously cut-and-paste someone's unreleased onto a track with someone whose successful now and didn't even have a career back when the deceased was still around. i mean, if you think of it as like a label-sanctioned mashup, that's cool I guess, but it's like air-brushing new people into old pictures, it's just creepy. ok, i'm ranting and getting away from my point, but all i mean is, Pac and Biggie are the last 2 guys who need help maintaining a legacy in current hip hop, so the stunt-casting of the most famous rapper in the world to produce a track with a very trendy production trick is just unnecessary and lame, and the song would be completely worthless if the verses weren't hot, especially Big's.

and for the record, i'm not at all against heliumized vocal samples (although it's definitely heading into overkill territory and I hope Kanye and Just Blaze jump ship on the gimmick before it boxes them in), it just struck me as funny that even Eminem is doing it in his productions now.

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 31 October 2003 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

five years pass...

Joe Budden's self-titled comes to mind.

― makeitpop, Sunday, 23 November 2008 19:00 (sixteen years ago)

Suggest this user to be banned.

― Mikaael Jackson (The Reverend), Monday, 24 November 2008 02:16 (sixteen years ago)

Hey, I accidentally posted this twice. Totally my bad.

― makeitpop, Monday, 24 November 2008 03:14 (sixteen years ago)

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