I agree with those such as Dadaismus that say Scotland hasn't produced anything worthwhile. This 'nation' of unionists has never produced anything other than copies of superor work or middle of the road trash like Travis, Texas, Deacon Blue, Simple Minds etc. And joke bands like The Proclaimers and Marmalade. Compare scotland with somewhere like Manchester. Scotland just doesnt cut it as a musical nation. Wonderful inventors and explorers but pathetic musically. If the best it can do is have american bands like Talking Heads and Garbage et al claimed as scottish then something is wrong.Even the so called best bands from scotland like Mogwai & Primal Scream are just rip ofs of superior bands and ideas. For a country of 5 million its truly surprising that it hasnt produced someone innovative. -- George Richardson (george_king_richardso...), October 21st, 2003.
Just why is a city like Manchester able to produce better bands than an entire country 10X the size of it. Why is Scotland so inept at producing quality bands?
Only scottish band I ever liked was Orange Juice.
― George Richardson, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)
bert jansch, belle and sebastian, the delgados, arab strap, beta band, mogwai, teenage fanclub, miles davis, ballboy, the list goes on... maybe it's just my melancholy slighly folky bias skew...
― Sean M (Sean M), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― George Richardson, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― Persecution Smith, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Sundance, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― joni, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)
ha ha ha ha ha!
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― DarrensCoq, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)
AereogrammeLowlifeAC AcousticsSlamBowsCindytalkChristBoards of CanadaLapsus LinguaeLong Fin KillieUnder the Dome [ambient band that sound like vintage Tangerine Dream]
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― DarrensCoq, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)
SCOTLAND, 86--01: Search and Destroy
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)
THE JESUS AND MARYCHAIN!!!
don't forget Neil Landstrumm.
― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)
...
what?
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)
Yes, I like all the British bands that music-loving Brits profess undying hatred for.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)
― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― robin (robin), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)
Miles Davis is from Stourbridge - I thought everyone knew that.
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― Sonny, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)
i'm a little put off by the implied 'lack of pioneering' by scots. primal scream have always been way ahead of trends, teenage fanclub were the first big-star rip-offs, JAMC were the pioneers of shoegaze... geeez people, come on!
and as much as i agree that manchester has an excellent roster of hometown bands, a lot of them don't exactly have staying power, do they? black grape? pursessence? and i rest my case with northside... most of the scots we've discussed will still sound respectable way off in the future. a lot of manchester bands stay within a narrow margin, whereas the scots are all over the place, which i think is healthy...
― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)
???!
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)
If we include the Scream and JAMC in the equation then I think Scotland wins hands down.
― Persecution Smith, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)
i agree ripping of big star isn't pioneering, but they were cultivating that sound before it became so, er... bandwagonesque. (thank you, thank you... i'm here all week)
with primal scream i was implying that they tend to re-invent themselves constantly from album to album before it becomes a flavour of the week, unlike manchester bands, who tend to be very same-y. to be frank, i haven't liked a primal scream album since 'give out but don't give up' *ducks to avoid sniper fire*
― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)
Who needs pioneers? The best genres already exist anyway
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)
I just looked up "Artists and Groups from Manchester, England" and the first name that appeared on the list is Stuart Adamson (The Skids, Big Country).
I thought he came from Dunfermline?
Mind you, the list also includes Level 42 and I'm almost positive they all came from the Isle Of Wight!
Again fwiw, other Manc. bands not mentioned so far: Charlatans, Colourfield (apparently - I always thought they were from London), Crispy Ambulance, George Formby, 808 State, Wayne Fontana & The Mindbenders, Freddie & The Dreamers, Hollies, Inspiral Carpets, Ludus, Magazine / Howard Devoto, Mock Turtles, M People, New FAD's, 10CC.
For me personally, I'm sorry but the combination of Buzzcocks, The Fall, Joy Division, New Order and The Smiths carries it.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)
Travis aren't fit to lick the soles of Mr. Frame's boots.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)
The Proclaimers are not 'a joke band' btw. Yes, they're geeky looking twins who sing with Scottish accents, and their worst song launched a million awful 'laugh at the Scots' drunken renditions. Listen to 'Sunshine On Leith'.
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)
I saw Baby Chaos support the wildhearts once. I cant even remember what they sounded like. Apparently GUN have reformed but I assume its not the original line up. Hated them with a passion.
― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:44 (seventeen years ago)
the hermit crabs -- RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007
yes, 1 April
― the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:45 (seventeen years ago)
I have never heard Long Fin Killie. Am I missing out? Blue Nile just played a gig didn't they?
― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 20:02 (seventeen years ago)
The GUN reformation was the one thing that Scotland, indeed Britain, indeed the world, needed, indeed was crying out for.
― the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 22:23 (seventeen years ago)
i wonder if it's GUN or G.U.N. since they changed their name after the Dunblane Massacre
― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 22:24 (seventeen years ago)
pinefox otm
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 13 July 2008 01:11 (seventeen years ago)
AC Acoustics. OMG I wonder if I still have their CD I liked a lot.
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 13 July 2008 03:00 (seventeen years ago)
It's called "Understanding Music". Fucking fantastic album. Only really good thing they ever did, though, to my knowledge.
Wow...Long Fin Killie. I haven't heard them in a billion years. I wonder if they're on You Tube...
Lowlife are/were from Scotland?? I guess I didn't realize that, despite the involvement of Will Heggie. (right?)
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 13 July 2008 03:02 (seventeen years ago)
Dunno them
― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 13 July 2008 15:03 (seventeen years ago)
A man has suffered 'horrific' multiple stab wounds and another has died at Scotland's biggest music festival.
― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 13 July 2008 18:45 (seventeen years ago)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/07/14/horror-as-fan-is-stabbed-11-times-at-t-in-the-park-86908-20642937/
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 07:52 (seventeen years ago)
aw shit. Where's Grimly Fiendish I wonder?
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:28 (seventeen years ago)
nowhere near t in the park im sure. he hates most of the bands that play there i think.
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:33 (seventeen years ago)
haha apparently the flat i stayed in in glasgow was next door to one of that band
― electricsound, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:35 (seventeen years ago)
Any good new Scottish bands around?
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 14:49 (seventeen years ago)
heh! i'm slightly concerned about the juxtaposition between this comment and "stabbing horror at T in the Park", but hey.
i was at work, subbing all the reviews as they came in. it sounds like it might have been OK this year. still never been, though.
good new scottish bands: we mentioned a couple of T Breakers but a) "good" is obviously subjective; b) i can't remember their names.
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 15:29 (seventeen years ago)
"good" is obviously subjective
This is like the dirty little secret of ILM innit?
― Bimble, Monday, 14 July 2008 16:28 (seventeen years ago)
Ayrshire's (one time) best kept secret.
http://www.nyahfearties.co.uk/
― MaresNest, Monday, 14 July 2008 16:46 (seventeen years ago)
My flatmate is a Hermit Crab! :)
The circles contract...
Anyway, threads like this mean my ILX silence must end...
My favourite Scottish band of the momemnt are Tattie Toes. They're fucking amazing, unlike anyone else in Glasgow at the moment. Flamenco/gypsy/math/punk/skronk/jazz/folk shenanigans. Reference points include Gang Gang Dance, This Heat and The Ex at their most adventurous. A really wonderful band.
Wounded Knee - One man and his voice, a loop pedal, delay and very little else. Inlfuence by folk, Albert Ayler, minimalism and minimal techno. http://www.myspace.com/iamwoundedknee
You'll probably have heard of Dananananaykroyd, Errors and RememberRemember, but they're always worth mentioning. The latter two are on Rock Action, as are the mighty De Salvo, freaky metal titans, fronted by a large bald man in a butcher's apron and gimp mask who is fond of humping the monitors and doing obscene things with his tongue. www.myspace.com/desalvoland
The ubiquitous Alex Neilson is involved in a number of musical projects. Directing Hand is freeform vocal and drum stuff with Lavinia Blackwell - hair raising and often beautiful. http://www.myspace.com/directinghand He's also got a more "songy" outfit, Trembling Bells, who are playing London on Saturday. Features Ben Reynolds and Simon from Lucky Luke. No myspace yet, but hopefully we'll get to hear some stuff soon. And then there's his free jazz outfit with David Keenan and others, Tight Meat. http://www.last.fm/music/Tight+Meat+Duo
Nackt Insecten - Glasgow's king of psychedelic drone. www.myspace.com/nacktinsecten
Kylie Minoise - deranged noise aktions! www.myspace.com/kylieminoise So much good stuff right now! Just a shame that the stuff that's getting the big money behind it is insipid jangle pop (Attic Lights), graceless retro plod (Glasvegas) or god awful sub-Killers shite (Dykeenies).
― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:09 (seventeen years ago)
http://www.atwarwithfalsenoise.com
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:31 (seventeen years ago)
What he said. AWWFN's Glasgow Implodes fest earlier this year was great fun. Black Sun are indeed Scotland's finest doom-mongers.
― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:35 (seventeen years ago)
i second the love for tattie toes. wonderful. nerea, the singer is an yma sumac for the 21st century.
― stirmonster, Monday, 14 July 2008 18:15 (seventeen years ago)
tight meat are always so much better with george lyle. shame there's not as much alex nielsen stuff on up here these days. and, yeah, desalvo are great - they and their pig snout were the best thing about hygomp last year.
i find a lot of that minoise/usurper/chocmonk stuff kinds tiresome though
new issue of beardmag due soon?
― yungblut, Monday, 14 July 2008 20:24 (seventeen years ago)
oh, and props to eye shaking kingdom!
Yes, believe it or not! We've been pretty busy with the radio show on Subcity (it's all archived on http://beardmag.blogspot.com) this past year but we're getting our shit together. I'm going back to uni in late September, so it has to be out by then! Don't want to give away all our secrets just yet, but it'll include interviews with James Blackshaw, Tattie Toes, Team Brick, and a legendary French composer/arranger...
Agree that Tight Meat are better with Lyle. The Sonny Simmons gig was fantastic - Keenan's furious blurts and shrieks provided an effectively crude counterpoint to Simmons' more lyrical style. And the Lyle-Neilson rhythm section were on fire that night.
Eye Shaking Kingdom have been excellent the last couple of times. Nackt Insecten is playing tomorrow night at the 13th Note. I might pop along to that.
― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 21:19 (seventeen years ago)
the mighty De Salvo, freaky metal titans, fronted by a large bald man in a butcher's apron and gimp mask
fucking AWESOMELY GREAT BAND.
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 22:27 (seventeen years ago)
(also: good to see you round these parts again, stew.)
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 22:38 (seventeen years ago)
De Salvo are supporting Converge tomorrow! Fuck yeah!!! Mayhem will surely ensue.
I have been lurking, but I thought I'd mislaid my log in, so wasn't posting. Anyway, all seesm to be working again, so it's nice to be back!
― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:01 (seventeen years ago)
OH, WHAT? for fuck's sake. i go part-time at work and i still end up missing this bloody gig. shitehawks.
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:01 (seventeen years ago)
I'll third (or whatever) the love for Tattie Toes. Glad to hear they're still on the go, saw them 2 or 3 years ago and loved them.
I like Copy Haho and Findo Gask.
― MichaelJLambert, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:39 (seventeen years ago)
I couldnt afford Harvey Milk the other night or Converge :(
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)
i quite like strawberry whiplash
― electricsound, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)
Nearly 300 posts and no mention of the Exploited? :(
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:56 (seventeen years ago)
I enjoy take a worm for a walk week.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38051644
― jim, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:59 (seventeen years ago)
alex in nyc posted an exploited thread back in the beginning i think
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:02 (seventeen years ago)
Heh yes he did post a picture of Troops Of Tomorrow, which is their "best" album
― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:10 (seventeen years ago)
has anyone seen/heard jacob from uncle john & whitelock's new band yet? no tracks up on their myspace. loved uj&w back when they were a going concern (got the dvd n everythin :D)
stereo on sun: tawfaww coverin it all up, eugene oxbow takin it all off
― yungblut, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:12 (seventeen years ago)
has anyone seen/heard jacob from uncle john & whitelock's new band yet?
yes. they played at a barn dance we put on the other week. they were really, really good. there's obviously still a lot of uj&w dna running through them but it's a lot more countrified and a lot darker. i can't wait to see them again.
nice to see findo gask getting a mention. they have a super 12" available from all good record shops. :-)
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:42 (seventeen years ago)
I still haven't picked up the Findo 12", but keep meaning to.
I have to admit having played a few shows with them when they were but young lads and sounded nothing like they do now.
― MichaelJLambert, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:07 (seventeen years ago)
I think the premise for this thread is a bit off. A quick wikipedia check reveals Scotland to have about 5 million inhabitants and Greater Manchester to have about 2.3 million. So Scotland's only slightly more than twice Manchester's size, population-wise, which is what's important here. And density counts for something, especially back in pre-internet days. (I mean, the Sad Day We Left the Croft comp LP notwithstanding, there's never been a huge Isle of Lewis scene....)
(You can't say that Scotland's population is ten times the City of Manchester's and then go including bands not from within Manchester city limits—I mean, Joy Division were from Macclesfied, no? If you want to include such bands, you have to up the population number, right? The issue here is that Scotland has borders, whereas Greater Manchester's are less precise.)
What we're really talking about is a couple of big Manchester bands like Joy Division, New Order, The Smiths, Happy Mondays, The Fall, and maybe the Buzzcocks, that Scotland probably can't match, but the overall level of activity (and competence) probably isn't that disparate.
For what it's worth, I've got 2543 Scottish songs in iTunes, 1827 Manchester songs. Of course, 1523 of those are by The Fall....All joking aside, it's a pretty amazing output for one city. Probably could only be surpassed by London and New York (which are filled with expat Scots like David Byrne, Mark Knopfler, Annie Lennox, Sheena Easton, Shirley Manson, Jimmy Somerville, Midge Ure, and so on). Even LA would have a hard time competing, and a high percentage of its bands would be from elsewhere.
― Michael Train, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:37 (seventeen years ago)
FWIW, only Ian Curtis was from Macclesfield. The rest were Mancs/Salfordians, but your overall points are fair, I think.
― Lostandfound, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:45 (seventeen years ago)
Very true. I did what I hate others doing: focusing on Ian and playing down the vast contributions of the rest of the band. Worst offender? The movie Control, which would have Ian the tortured genius and the other guys a bunch of louts much given to fart jokes. Well, maybe they were a bunch of lads given to fart jokes, but they made other sounds too.
― Michael Train, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 02:24 (seventeen years ago)
But only a record of Ian farting on it would sell!
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 11:37 (seventeen years ago)
is there a thread of hatred for mancunian music/culture/etc
― fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 00:43 (fourteen years ago)
here
― miss pansy twist (electricsound), Saturday, 19 February 2011 01:01 (fourteen years ago)
lol
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:03 (fourteen years ago)
think imma have to do separate ilm/ilx/ilf threads for hatred of the different aspects of mancunian culture
― fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:05 (fourteen years ago)
I dont think there's an anti-manchester music thread on ILM yet 2 on scotland in the early days of ILM. I remember when both of these threads started but i think the reason no-one will say they hate Manchester on ILM is because New Order are *the* ILM band. Scotland doesn't have a band everyone can agree on (except that a lot hate primal scream)
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:08 (fourteen years ago)
i will be happy to support a "Tell Manchester to Fuck Off" thread
― fat balls for wild birds (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:10 (fourteen years ago)
JESUS CHRIST...MANCHESTER...
― fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:10 (fourteen years ago)