Scotland: Why Is It So Musically Inept?/Why has Nothing Good Musically Come From A Nation 10 X the Size Of Manchester/.

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Ok taken from my posting here 100 best scottish albums according to the scotsman

I agree with those such as Dadaismus that say Scotland hasn't produced anything worthwhile. This 'nation' of unionists has never produced anything other than copies of superor work or middle of the road trash like Travis, Texas, Deacon Blue, Simple Minds etc. And joke bands like The Proclaimers and Marmalade. Compare scotland with somewhere like Manchester. Scotland just doesnt cut it as a musical nation. Wonderful inventors and explorers but pathetic musically. If the best it can do is have american bands like Talking Heads and Garbage et al claimed as scottish then something is wrong.
Even the so called best bands from scotland like Mogwai & Primal Scream are just rip ofs of superior bands and ideas. For a country of 5 million its truly surprising that it hasnt produced someone innovative.
-- George Richardson (george_king_richardso...), October 21st, 2003.


Just why is a city like Manchester able to produce better bands than an entire country 10X the size of it. Why is Scotland so inept at producing quality bands?

Only scottish band I ever liked was Orange Juice.

George Richardson, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i (a canadian) always thought scotland was one of the best musical breeding grounds in the world, so all this anti-scotland stuff here lately really perplexes me.

bert jansch, belle and sebastian, the delgados, arab strap, beta band, mogwai, teenage fanclub, miles davis, ballboy, the list goes on... maybe it's just my melancholy slighly folky bias skew...

Sean M (Sean M), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll give you Bert Jansch. John Martyn too.

George Richardson, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked that Scottish list - Scottish indie records seem to have worn much better than most others for me. Tom Wilson's compilations of goonish hardcore are some of my favourite dance records too. Also I am quite fond of the whole aspirational white soul thing - Scottish bands were so unapologetic about it.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I too think that Scotland's ploughed its own charming furrow for a long time now. Belle & Sebastian couldn't have come from anywhere but Glasgow and Teenage Fanclub, The Delgados, Arab Strap, Mogwai, Urusei Yatsura, AC Acoustics, Ballboy, Franz Ferdinand et al are all good bands. Also, magic seems to happen in Scotland. The whole rediscovery of Big Star can be traced back to one set of Bellshill schoolmates, but resulted in a truly wonderful thing like Alex Chilton being coaxed into playing at the 13th Note when he couldn't get arrestd elsewhere in the world. See also BMX Bandits getting Dan Penn to sing on one of their songs and convincing Kim Fowley to produce them. Together with the contributions of Postcard and Creation, I'd say that Scotland's pissed over Manchester's recorded contribution for the last 25 years.

Persecution Smith, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Pissed over Manchester? Have you taken leave of your senses? Please tell me where exactly. here's a reminder of Manchester's contribution: Joy Division, (the list could end here and Scotland's trainer would have the towel ready to be flung), New Order, The Smiths, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Doves, The Fall, Ruthless Rap Assassins, Elbow, Paris Angels, Durutti Column, Black Grape, Northside, A Certain Ratio, The Chameleons, James, Buzzcocks, Alberto Y Lost Trios Paranoias, Hanky Park, 39 Phoenix, Puressence, 808 State.

Come on Scotchland had Wet, Wet,Wet and The Proclaimers in?!?!?!?!

Sundance, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm lying in the gutter/And I'm wishing I was lucky"

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that Scottish musicians rarely seem to be pioneers, in the traditional understanding of the word, at least. Maybe they are too in love with classic old records for that. But at their best (Orange Juice, Belle & Sebastian) they can turn this to their peculiar, beguiling ends and come up with something untouchable.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll see your wet wet wet and raise you with simply red

joni, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

well, we do have some of the best djs on the planet!

stirmonster, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Northside

ha ha ha ha ha!

stirmonster, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Inept? *snickers*

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all about the Mary Chain, kids - aaall about the Mary Chain.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I agree Scottish music isn't exactly world changing but the stuff I do happen to be obsessed with (Arab Strap mostly) has a really intimate connection w me. And Scotch-phila, because it's pretty involving and not altogether pretty, is so much better than the regular North-American anglophila that usually coexists w a weak personality or unremarkable tits or general disinterest re: black people.

DarrensCoq, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

'Scotch' should be used in connection with whisky and nothing else.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

'Unremarkable tits' should be used in connection with all things.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

some others from Scotland:

Aereogramme
Lowlife
AC Acoustics
Slam
Bows
Cindytalk
Christ
Boards of Canada
Lapsus Linguae
Long Fin Killie
Under the Dome [ambient band that sound like vintage Tangerine Dream]

DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry bro!

DarrensCoq, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

another scottish artist: One Dove

DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

also:

SCOTLAND, 86--01: Search and Destroy

DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I know Charlie already said it, but

THE JESUS AND MARYCHAIN!!!

don't forget Neil Landstrumm.

Disco Nihilist (mjt), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

and The Associates

DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Supergrass! Yeah! Fuckin' A!

...

what?

nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

What have Supergrass got to do with this?!

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

geez does everybody here hate Primal Scream so much they don't even warrant a passing mention? (They are Scottish aren't they? I could've sworn Gillespie was a Weegie...) And the Verve goddammit.

Yes, I like all the British bands that music-loving Brits profess undying hatred for.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Supergrass were from Scotland. Why, I don't know.

nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

since when is miles davis from scotland?

robin (robin), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Nate, it's OK - the Camden scene is the arsey London cousin of the Scottish central belt.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(I have no idea if Supergrass ever actually lived in Camden but you know what I mean)

Miles Davis is from Stourbridge - I thought everyone knew that.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

this is funny...I was going to ask why all of England hasn't produced as many good bands in the last 10 years that can compete with most Scottish bands.
England's idea of new music these days is The Darkness...enough said.

Sonny, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)

>And the Verve goddammit
er... they're from Wigan, England.

i'm a little put off by the implied 'lack of pioneering' by scots. primal scream have always been way ahead of trends, teenage fanclub were the first big-star rip-offs, JAMC were the pioneers of shoegaze... geeez people, come on!

and as much as i agree that manchester has an excellent roster of hometown bands, a lot of them don't exactly have staying power, do they? black grape? pursessence? and i rest my case with northside... most of the scots we've discussed will still sound respectable way off in the future. a lot of manchester bands stay within a narrow margin, whereas the scots are all over the place, which i think is healthy...

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)

primal scream have always been way ahead of trends

???!

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Fwiw: Scottish bands

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sundance: our list contained some of the worst bands ever. Northside? Piressence? Paris Angels? The only truly great band in your list was the Buzzcocks.

If we include the Scream and JAMC in the equation then I think Scotland wins hands down.

Persecution Smith, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

good house music from Glasgow's DJ Q - aren't Slam scottish as well?

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Supergrass are from Oxford.

William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Being "the first Big Star rip offs" doth not a pioneer make surely?

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, i went a bit overboard...

i agree ripping of big star isn't pioneering, but they were cultivating that sound before it became so, er... bandwagonesque. (thank you, thank you... i'm here all week)

with primal scream i was implying that they tend to re-invent themselves constantly from album to album before it becomes a flavour of the week, unlike manchester bands, who tend to be very same-y. to be frank, i haven't liked a primal scream album since 'give out but don't give up' *ducks to avoid sniper fire*

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Travis are musical geniuses, as is also Roddy Frame.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that Scottish musicians rarely seem to be pioneers, in the traditional understanding of the word, at least.

Who needs pioneers? The best genres already exist anyway

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is inept.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm confused.

I just looked up "Artists and Groups from Manchester, England" and the first name that appeared on the list is Stuart Adamson (The Skids, Big Country).

I thought he came from Dunfermline?

Mind you, the list also includes Level 42 and I'm almost positive they all came from the Isle Of Wight!

Again fwiw, other Manc. bands not mentioned so far: Charlatans, Colourfield (apparently - I always thought they were from London), Crispy Ambulance, George Formby, 808 State, Wayne Fontana & The Mindbenders, Freddie & The Dreamers, Hollies, Inspiral Carpets, Ludus, Magazine / Howard Devoto, Mock Turtles, M People, New FAD's, 10CC.

For me personally, I'm sorry but the combination of Buzzcocks, The Fall, Joy Division, New Order and The Smiths carries it.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Travis are musical geniuses, as is also Roddy Frame."

Travis aren't fit to lick the soles of Mr. Frame's boots.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Roddy Frame is great too. Yet, like Frame, Fran Healy is up there with Paul McCartney, Neil Finn and a few others among the greatest melody-oriented songsmiths ever.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir, all I can say is that there must be an extraordinary amount of room "up there" if it incorporates such a vast range of different ability levels!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

'Early Doors' is set in Manchester, but the theme music is from Scotland! Name one programme set in Scotland with theme music from Manchester. You can't, can you? I rest my case.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Scottish programmes are terribly parochial.

The Proclaimers are not 'a joke band' btw. Yes, they're geeky looking twins who sing with Scottish accents, and their worst song launched a million awful 'laugh at the Scots' drunken renditions. Listen to 'Sunshine On Leith'.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

that bootleg of '500 Miles' over 2 Bad Mice's 'Bombscare' rules also

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

N. there's nothing bad about being a joke band.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

the voice of experience?

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Baby Chaos support the wildhearts once. I cant even remember what they sounded like.
Apparently GUN have reformed but I assume its not the original line up. Hated them with a passion.

Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:44 (seventeen years ago)

the hermit crabs
-- RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007

yes, 1 April

the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:45 (seventeen years ago)

I have never heard Long Fin Killie. Am I missing out?
Blue Nile just played a gig didn't they?

Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 20:02 (seventeen years ago)

The GUN reformation was the one thing that Scotland, indeed Britain, indeed the world, needed, indeed was crying out for.

the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 22:23 (seventeen years ago)

i wonder if it's GUN or G.U.N. since they changed their name after the Dunblane Massacre

Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 22:24 (seventeen years ago)

The GUN reformation was the one thing that Scotland, indeed Britain, indeed the world, needed, indeed was crying out for.

pinefox otm

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 13 July 2008 01:11 (seventeen years ago)

AC Acoustics. OMG I wonder if I still have their CD I liked a lot.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 13 July 2008 03:00 (seventeen years ago)

It's called "Understanding Music". Fucking fantastic album. Only really good thing they ever did, though, to my knowledge.

Wow...Long Fin Killie. I haven't heard them in a billion years. I wonder if they're on You Tube...

Lowlife are/were from Scotland?? I guess I didn't realize that, despite the involvement of Will Heggie. (right?)

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 13 July 2008 03:02 (seventeen years ago)

Dunno them

Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 13 July 2008 15:03 (seventeen years ago)

aw shit. Where's Grimly Fiendish I wonder?

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:28 (seventeen years ago)

nowhere near t in the park im sure. he hates most of the bands that play there i think.

Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:33 (seventeen years ago)

the hermit crabs
-- RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007

haha apparently the flat i stayed in in glasgow was next door to one of that band

electricsound, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:35 (seventeen years ago)

Any good new Scottish bands around?

Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 14:49 (seventeen years ago)

aw shit. Where's Grimly Fiendish I wonder?

heh! i'm slightly concerned about the juxtaposition between this comment and "stabbing horror at T in the Park", but hey.

i was at work, subbing all the reviews as they came in. it sounds like it might have been OK this year. still never been, though.

good new scottish bands: we mentioned a couple of T Breakers but a) "good" is obviously subjective; b) i can't remember their names.

grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 15:29 (seventeen years ago)

"good" is obviously subjective

This is like the dirty little secret of ILM innit?

Bimble, Monday, 14 July 2008 16:28 (seventeen years ago)

Ayrshire's (one time) best kept secret.

http://www.nyahfearties.co.uk/

MaresNest, Monday, 14 July 2008 16:46 (seventeen years ago)

My flatmate is a Hermit Crab! :)

The circles contract...

Anyway, threads like this mean my ILX silence must end...

My favourite Scottish band of the momemnt are Tattie Toes. They're fucking amazing, unlike anyone else in Glasgow at the moment. Flamenco/gypsy/math/punk/skronk/jazz/folk shenanigans. Reference points include Gang Gang Dance, This Heat and The Ex at their most adventurous. A really wonderful band.

Wounded Knee - One man and his voice, a loop pedal, delay and very little else. Inlfuence by folk, Albert Ayler, minimalism and minimal techno. http://www.myspace.com/iamwoundedknee

You'll probably have heard of Dananananaykroyd, Errors and RememberRemember, but they're always worth mentioning. The latter two are on Rock Action, as are the mighty De Salvo, freaky metal titans, fronted by a large bald man in a butcher's apron and gimp mask who is fond of humping the monitors and doing obscene things with his tongue.
www.myspace.com/desalvoland

The ubiquitous Alex Neilson is involved in a number of musical projects. Directing Hand is freeform vocal and drum stuff with Lavinia Blackwell - hair raising and often beautiful. http://www.myspace.com/directinghand
He's also got a more "songy" outfit, Trembling Bells, who are playing London on Saturday. Features Ben Reynolds and Simon from Lucky Luke. No myspace yet, but hopefully we'll get to hear some stuff soon.
And then there's his free jazz outfit with David Keenan and others, Tight Meat. http://www.last.fm/music/Tight+Meat+Duo

Nackt Insecten - Glasgow's king of psychedelic drone.
www.myspace.com/nacktinsecten

Kylie Minoise - deranged noise aktions!
www.myspace.com/kylieminoise

So much good stuff right now! Just a shame that the stuff that's getting the big money behind it is insipid jangle pop (Attic Lights), graceless retro plod (Glasvegas) or god awful sub-Killers shite (Dykeenies).

Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:09 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.atwarwithfalsenoise.com

Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:31 (seventeen years ago)

What he said. AWWFN's Glasgow Implodes fest earlier this year was great fun.
Black Sun are indeed Scotland's finest doom-mongers.

Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:35 (seventeen years ago)

i second the love for tattie toes. wonderful. nerea, the singer is an yma sumac for the 21st century.

stirmonster, Monday, 14 July 2008 18:15 (seventeen years ago)

tight meat are always so much better with george lyle. shame there's not as much alex nielsen stuff on up here these days. and, yeah, desalvo are great - they and their pig snout were the best thing about hygomp last year.

i find a lot of that minoise/usurper/chocmonk stuff kinds tiresome though

new issue of beardmag due soon?

yungblut, Monday, 14 July 2008 20:24 (seventeen years ago)

oh, and props to eye shaking kingdom!

yungblut, Monday, 14 July 2008 20:24 (seventeen years ago)

new issue of beardmag due soon?

Yes, believe it or not! We've been pretty busy with the radio show on Subcity (it's all archived on http://beardmag.blogspot.com) this past year but we're getting our shit together. I'm going back to uni in late September, so it has to be out by then! Don't want to give away all our secrets just yet, but it'll include interviews with James Blackshaw, Tattie Toes, Team Brick, and a legendary French composer/arranger...

Agree that Tight Meat are better with Lyle. The Sonny Simmons gig was fantastic - Keenan's furious blurts and shrieks provided an effectively crude counterpoint to Simmons' more lyrical style. And the Lyle-Neilson rhythm section were on fire that night.

Eye Shaking Kingdom have been excellent the last couple of times. Nackt Insecten is playing tomorrow night at the 13th Note. I might pop along to that.

Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 21:19 (seventeen years ago)

the mighty De Salvo, freaky metal titans, fronted by a large bald man in a butcher's apron and gimp mask

fucking AWESOMELY GREAT BAND.

grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 22:27 (seventeen years ago)

(also: good to see you round these parts again, stew.)

grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 22:38 (seventeen years ago)

De Salvo are supporting Converge tomorrow! Fuck yeah!!! Mayhem will surely ensue.

I have been lurking, but I thought I'd mislaid my log in, so wasn't posting. Anyway, all seesm to be working again, so it's nice to be back!

Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:01 (seventeen years ago)

OH, WHAT? for fuck's sake. i go part-time at work and i still end up missing this bloody gig. shitehawks.

grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:01 (seventeen years ago)

I'll third (or whatever) the love for Tattie Toes. Glad to hear they're still on the go, saw them 2 or 3 years ago and loved them.

I like Copy Haho and Findo Gask.

MichaelJLambert, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:39 (seventeen years ago)

I couldnt afford Harvey Milk the other night or Converge :(

Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

i quite like strawberry whiplash

electricsound, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

Nearly 300 posts and no mention of the Exploited? :(

Colonel Poo, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:56 (seventeen years ago)

I enjoy take a worm for a walk week.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38051644

jim, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:59 (seventeen years ago)

alex in nyc posted an exploited thread back in the beginning i think

Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:02 (seventeen years ago)

Heh yes he did post a picture of Troops Of Tomorrow, which is their "best" album

Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:10 (seventeen years ago)

has anyone seen/heard jacob from uncle john & whitelock's new band yet? no tracks up on their myspace. loved uj&w back when they were a going concern (got the dvd n everythin :D)

stereo on sun: tawfaww coverin it all up, eugene oxbow takin it all off

yungblut, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:12 (seventeen years ago)

has anyone seen/heard jacob from uncle john & whitelock's new band yet?

yes. they played at a barn dance we put on the other week. they were really, really good. there's obviously still a lot of uj&w dna running through them but it's a lot more countrified and a lot darker. i can't wait to see them again.

nice to see findo gask getting a mention. they have a super 12" available from all good record shops. :-)

stirmonster, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:42 (seventeen years ago)

I still haven't picked up the Findo 12", but keep meaning to.

I have to admit having played a few shows with them when they were but young lads and sounded nothing like they do now.

MichaelJLambert, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:07 (seventeen years ago)

I think the premise for this thread is a bit off. A quick wikipedia check reveals Scotland to have about 5 million inhabitants and Greater Manchester to have about 2.3 million. So Scotland's only slightly more than twice Manchester's size, population-wise, which is what's important here. And density counts for something, especially back in pre-internet days. (I mean, the Sad Day We Left the Croft comp LP notwithstanding, there's never been a huge Isle of Lewis scene....)

(You can't say that Scotland's population is ten times the City of Manchester's and then go including bands not from within Manchester city limits—I mean, Joy Division were from Macclesfied, no? If you want to include such bands, you have to up the population number, right? The issue here is that Scotland has borders, whereas Greater Manchester's are less precise.)

What we're really talking about is a couple of big Manchester bands like Joy Division, New Order, The Smiths, Happy Mondays, The Fall, and maybe the Buzzcocks, that Scotland probably can't match, but the overall level of activity (and competence) probably isn't that disparate.

For what it's worth, I've got 2543 Scottish songs in iTunes, 1827 Manchester songs. Of course, 1523 of those are by The Fall....All joking aside, it's a pretty amazing output for one city. Probably could only be surpassed by London and New York (which are filled with expat Scots like David Byrne, Mark Knopfler, Annie Lennox, Sheena Easton, Shirley Manson, Jimmy Somerville, Midge Ure, and so on). Even LA would have a hard time competing, and a high percentage of its bands would be from elsewhere.

Michael Train, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:37 (seventeen years ago)

FWIW, only Ian Curtis was from Macclesfield. The rest were Mancs/Salfordians, but your overall points are fair, I think.

Lostandfound, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:45 (seventeen years ago)

Very true. I did what I hate others doing: focusing on Ian and playing down the vast contributions of the rest of the band. Worst offender? The movie Control, which would have Ian the tortured genius and the other guys a bunch of louts much given to fart jokes. Well, maybe they were a bunch of lads given to fart jokes, but they made other sounds too.

Michael Train, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 02:24 (seventeen years ago)

But only a record of Ian farting on it would sell!

Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 11:37 (seventeen years ago)

two years pass...

is there a thread of hatred for mancunian music/culture/etc

fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 00:43 (fourteen years ago)

here

miss pansy twist (electricsound), Saturday, 19 February 2011 01:01 (fourteen years ago)

lol

Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:03 (fourteen years ago)

think imma have to do separate ilm/ilx/ilf threads for hatred of the different aspects of mancunian culture

fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:05 (fourteen years ago)

I dont think there's an anti-manchester music thread on ILM yet 2 on scotland in the early days of ILM. I remember when both of these threads started but i think the reason no-one will say they hate Manchester on ILM is because New Order are *the* ILM band. Scotland doesn't have a band everyone can agree on (except that a lot hate primal scream)

Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:08 (fourteen years ago)

i will be happy to support a "Tell Manchester to Fuck Off" thread

fat balls for wild birds (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:10 (fourteen years ago)

JESUS CHRIST...MANCHESTER...

fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:10 (fourteen years ago)


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