Bands that have been mocked by the critics from the start, and still have managed to build a longer career, without ever gaining the critics' respect

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Bit influenced by the "uncool" thread: How many of those are there? They would need to have a somewhat lasting career (I mean, obviously, Modern Talking never had a good review, but they didn't last very long either, at least not unless you count their reuinon into the career span)

Barclay James Harvest and Saga, maybe, although at least a guy like Colin Larkin likes some early material by the former.

Black Sabbath were mocked in the beginning, but have earned the critics' respect later. Kiss were generally mocked, but did receive good reviews for "Destroyer".

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Status Quo, for example?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Status Quo did get good reviews for their debut, which is very different from everything they did afterwards.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Rush
Insane Clown Posse

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

There have been good reviews here and there but the Stereophonics have never been critical darlings.

A good way to spot this: when a band has been going for a bit and got very popular some critics will still slag off each new record but in terms which make it look like they liked the old stuff (they didn't of course) i.e. "The energy and drive of their earlier work seems to have vanished..." etc.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

The last Q I read (plane journey and I'd put my book in the hold luggage OK??) had a great example of this for Blink 182 - of course they used to be a fun breath of fresh air but now they are stale and awful, AS IF he'd ever liked their earlier stuff.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Westlife and Boyzone, probably the only two major pop acts of the past ten years who haven't, and never will, get a critical reappraisal.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh they will get a critical reappraisal. Just the result will be the same.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Correct about Stereophonics, but they haven't really lasted for long yet.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I dont know Dom - some of the Westlife generation are going to become features editors, lifestyle columnists etc etc., a reappraisal in the 'nostalgic lookback' sense isn't unlikely. Of course it's quite possible they'll still be going.

Geir they've been going almost 8 years - that's the same length as the Beatles dammit!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference being that a lot more albums were released by an act during an 8-year career in the 60s than is the case now.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Even so 4 albums is enough I think, it's 'established', it's one above the 3 which is typical of the successful boy/girl group and two above the standard middle-ranking-indie-band tally.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Modern Talking released 6 albums in 2 years :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Modern Talking fits your definition fine, Geir. 11 albums between 1983-1987 and 1998-2003.

Celine Dion comes to mind too.

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and P.Diddy?

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

How has P Diddy been treated in the hip-hop press though?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Placebo.

― Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Creed?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Bon Jovi?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

How has P Diddy been treated in the hip-hop press though?

i would've thought he was praised (as a producer and svengali rather than as an MC and lyricist) for the most part prior to 'I'll Be Missing You' and then treated with indifference thereafter

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Cardiacs - Universally hated by critics and DJ's alike (excepting Janice Long) 27 years in the biz.

― mzui, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

SCOOTER

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Genesis. The critics were right.
Your turn, Geir.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Bush?

― hmmm, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Feeder do remarkably well for a band that no-one ever admits to liking.

― laticsmon (laticsmon), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Even so 4 albums is enough I think

Four Stereophonics albums is more than enough, thanks.

Mansun? Gene?

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

THAT NEW EMO BAND - JANET JACKSON'S TIT was REVILED at first but now everyone SEEMS TO LOVE THEM!

― Jimmy the Saint (Jimmy the Saint), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

The first Stereophonics record is generally well-liked, if not loved by the likes of Q and the NME, although what I've heard of it is only approaching the dregs of mediocre (so they have gone downhill then).

― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Gary Numan never really had the most favorable reviews, and his career is of course long. Lately he's gotten some critical acclaim, even though I think his new stuff sucks.

― Patrick South (Patrick South), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

How has P Diddy been treated in the hip-hop press though?

Does that matter? Even Modern Talking received tons of positive press in the teen/pop mags in their days.

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Nickelback of course. And The Offspring were never really liked even pre-'Smash'. And Motley Crue. It's amazing how long they lasted, really.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

DEPECHE MODE

― rw, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Siegbran it does matter unless you're going to take the 'rock press' as the sole fount of critical wisdom.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, there was a time when Rush got critical props. I remember in the '82 edition of the Rolling Stone record guide, they had three or four four-star records, and the reviewer (can't remember if it was Consindine or Marsh) was saying how they were making metal mature or something.

Anyway, my vote goes to Queen, who I'm not sure ever had any kind of critical support (at least in the US) while they were going.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

the Vengaboys

― Huckadelphia (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Matchbox twenty owns this thread, even given their relatively short run so far.

― Lee G (Lee G), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

do grammys count as critical whatsit?

― Huckadelphia (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

http://avocadia.net/library/images/buckethead.jpg

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It'd be nice to read one review of one of Buckethead's dozens of albums that didn't mention "he's got a bucket on his head".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

http://home.clara.net/antoni/kj_logo.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

It'd be nice to read one review of one of Buckethead's dozens of albums that didn't mention "he's got a bucket on his head".

B-b-but he does have a bucket on his head. If he didn't want people to dwell on that, he would take it off.

― Huckadelphia (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Calling himself 'Buckethead' might tip them off a bit too.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Ugh.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

When a guy releases at the very least 3 albums a year for like ten years straight you'd think critics would realize by now that, yes, WE KNOW HE HAS A BUCKET ON HIS HEAD.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Rush seems to mostly get good reviews these days. (And AFAICT they were always venerated by outlets like Guitar Player or Modern Drummer, which has to count for something.) Ditto Depeche Mode (the good reviews part). Queen also seem to get decent critical respect now though you may be right that they didn't during their career. Bon Jovi seems like a good answer but didn't Christgau actually give Slippery When Wet a pretty good review? (Def Leppard, on the other hand, seem to have always been critic's darlings.) Journey? Styx? Collective Soul? George Thorogood? Michael Bolton? Celine Dion? Barry Manilow? Tom Jones? Amy Grant? Bryan Adams? Did ELP ever get good reviews?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Weren't Led Zep pretty much ridiculed and reviled by the critics until the mid 70s?

― pete s, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Not universally, mostly just at Rolling Stone, I think. Lenny Kaye wrote a glowing review of the fourth album, for example. Either way, the "until the mid-70s" part would disqualify them. Lots of bands started out with critical disdain and grew to gain respect as they went on.

Kenny G!

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Heart?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Nearly Every Heavy Metal Band Ever!!!

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but that's what metal mags were invented for

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

alphaville's still going strong, aren't they?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Shed Seven

― pete s, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I also remember reading the original Rolling Stone review of Funkadelic's review asking, "who needs this shit?"

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

(first album, that is)

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Uriah Heep.

― George Smith, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Ahem... Grateful Dead, Phish, DMB, every other jam band ever to thread kthx

― DougD, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

AC/DC.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

neil hamburger

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Duran Duran

― Huckadelphia (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Grateful Dead and Phish have gotten some very good reviews of certain albums (see: American whatsit by the Dead, Billy Breathes by Phish for examples).

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the classic examples of this is Grand Funk Railroad, who really didn't get that many positive reviews (except for the odd single like "We're An American Band", or the the ocasional bit of praise from somebody like a Lester Bangs or a Chuck Eddy) during their heyday or even now.

― Doobie Keebler (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Iron Maiden

The guy used the bucket to get him noticed and unfortunately that is what people remember. Would David Torn, Elliot Sharp, Bill Frisell, James Blood Ulmer or Steve Tibbetts be more recognizable if they wore a KFC lid? Perhaps, but they probably would always have mentioned they are wearing a chicken bucket on their head. It has definitely sold a bunch of weird guitar music to kids who would never get into such music otherwise, so I guess it worked. Live by the prop, die by the prop.

― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I was JUST about to suggest `Maiden.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

As inspired by this thread, what about the Cure? They've gotten by without much critical support over the years, haven't they?

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave Matthews Band
Kansas
Savage Garden

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Pop magazines loved Savage Garden for a few years.

P Diddy's treatment in the hip-hop press is basically "Shitty musician, but great celebrity".

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Genesis. The critics were right.

Genesis hardly ever received a bad review until the mid 70s.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Bauhaus never got much respect during their existence.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Celine Dion is a good call btw. Possibly Mariah Carey too, although I seem to recall that here debut wasn't too harshly received (and Whitney Houston's debut definitely received some praise from critics hailing her as the new Aretha Franklin - I can even see why, as "Saving All My Love For You" is still a great song)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no it's not....it's a shrill dog-whistling aural trial!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

This is true re: Bauhaus -- the clippings collection I have as well as Behind the Mask do have some positive reviews (including a great one from Alan Moore for The Sky's Gone Out) and some friendly interviewers, but not many. And then of course there was the legendary Bauhaus/Steve Sutherland confrontation on-stage as well as the snippet from the Bauhaus/Paul Morley interview then used in "Party of the First Part" and...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

alphaville's still going strong, aren't they?

They didn't sell records for long.

And with younger generations growing up and becoming critics, "Forever Young" (excellent album btw) has seem some reappraisal in retrospect.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen Raggett, don't try to cozy back up to the undead Goth Nation after you've slighted everything they stand for. VOUS ETES UN CHIEN QUI EST BETTE!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I stand by "Saving All My Love For You" being a good song. The production was terrible though, and it would have benefited a lot more from having a classic Billy Holiday-influenced arrangement instead. Because if you strip away all the sugar and candyfloss in Masser's production, you will find that the song does sound a lot like some 30s or 40s jazz standard.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen Raggett, don't try to cozy back up to the undead Goth Nation after you've slighted everything they stand for.

Yay!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

you will find that the song does sound a lot like some 30s or 40s jazz standard......being sung by a rabid she-hyaena in heat.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe, Alex, maybe... :-)

Although Houston's voice is considerably less annoying than Carey's...

Of course it would have sounded better if Billy Holiday had performed it - the problem being she had been dead for almost 30 years...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Genesis hardly ever received a bad review until the mid 70s.

"until"

― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, when Peter Gabriel left the band, the critics suddenly decided they sucked (which wasn't true until at least five years later)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Although Houston's voice is considerably less annoying than Carey's...

That's like saying that being kicked in the crotch with a steel-toed boot is considerably less anyong than being kicked in the crotch by a two-ton moose.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Black Sabbath maybe?

― Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

less anyong

less annoying.

Les Anyong sounds like a Vietnamese lounge singer.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

True.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, when Peter Gabriel left the band, the critics suddenly decided they sucked (which wasn't true until at least five years later)

My point was that the critical view somewhat changed, not that they didn't get good reviews at some point.

― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

But then they don't fit into the thread since the thread was about bands who have always had bad reviews.

In retrospect, I think most critics (I am not speaking of those that generally oppose prog here) would say that at least as long as Steve Hackett was in the band, their output was still great.

Critics do agree with the band's fans that their material from the late 70s onwards has been considerably weaker though, with "We Can't Dance" an obvious low point.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

But then they don't fit into the thread since the thread was about bands who have always had bad reviews.

Yes I know. I suppose my point was how far the critical view had decreased. It was a rubbish post to be fair. I should know better than to claim any knowledge of Genesis.

― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the main hook of "Saving All My Love for You".

Sabbath, AC/DC, and Maiden have surely become hard rock canon? I actually think at least Maiden has become a touch overrated.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Maiden has become a touch overrated.

Guards! Throw him to THE LIONS!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I *heart* Huckadelphia.

And just in case you didn't catch it before:

DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, DURAN DURAN, AND DURAN DURAN!

I've only seen a desert stream-like trickling of positive reviews for the band's output throughout their career, and one of maybe three reviews of their music that I felt I could actually point to and say, "Hey, look! I DON'T listen to shit so TAKE THAT!" was one that was written by our own Ned Raggett.

― Mellow Dee (Dee the Lurker), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Duran Duran were usually given a hard time during the 80s, but these days at least their earlier records have found their reappraisal.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 5 February 2004 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Apart from the occasional re-release, they still get bad reviews though. But that is because their current output does suck.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 5 February 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Stone Temple Pilots have done all right for themselves.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Thursday, 5 February 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

...behind bars.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 5 February 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I also remember reading the original Rolling Stone review of Funkadelic's review asking, "who needs this shit?"

Somebody PLEASE let me see the original review. PLEASSE!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 5 February 2004 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Apart from the occasional re-release, they still get bad reviews though. But that is because their current output does suck.

Geir, m'buddy, I was thisclose to becoming one of your most fervent apologists before you said this. However, since you're dealing with Miss Medazzaland here, I'm sorry to say that you missed out on that opportunity. Sorry, buh-bye, you lose, no parting gifts here, that sort of thing.

― Mellow Dee (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 5 February 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Apart from the occasional re-release, they still get bad reviews though. But that is because their current output does suck.

You suck.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 5 February 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

one of maybe three reviews of their music that I felt I could actually point to and say, "Hey, look! I DON'T listen to shit so TAKE THAT!" was one that was written by our own Ned Raggett.

Just out of curiosity, were you talking about this?

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 5 February 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

YES! And Mr. Snrub, I *heart* you too.

― Mellow Dee (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 5 February 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

ozric tentacles?

― see ar (see ar), Thursday, 5 February 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

http://home.online.no/~omelby/s_puppy/splogo.gif

― rejoinder, Thursday, 5 February 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I have the impression that most acts do get at least one positive album review on AMG though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 5 February 2004 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you're right.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 5 February 2004 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, except for Attilla, of course.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 5 February 2004 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't realize Billy Joel had a side-project.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 5 February 2004 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

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