Pazz, Jop

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http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/xgautest.php

― Sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to bed now

― Sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Anyone expecting me to claim that our Georgia-based winners resolve this dilemma should get serious. But the metaphors are there. My hot year in hip-hop wasn't like the critics' because it was more critical. Only four of the 13 hip-hop albums on the Dean's List are mainstream, and though both of my undie-rap top-10s are by nonblacks, all but two of the others are African American—unlike most undie-rap fans, and also unlike most name undie-rappers."

Wow, Xgau's undie AND black! How does he do it?!

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, and thanks for calling us all racist motherfucker! i love how you half-heartedly indicted yourself just to keep up appearances, only to return much later in the article to the fact that you listen to WAY more black people than the average Pazz 'n' Jopper!

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

josh- he's the DEAN!!!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

one more thing: fuck you for calling anyone "pathetic" who would vote for Ted Leo and Jigga over that mush-headed Lifesavas tripe.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

*cue Dean scream*

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

You do have to remember that your opinions don't count because he's a professional, and ILM's "rolls are larded with part-timers who buy many records and miss many more. And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio."

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The original was:

"Our rolls (Pazz & Jop) are larded with part-timers who buy many records and miss many more. And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio. "

But still his abuse of people who are just starting music criticism or people not paid to work fulltime on music criticism jars with me as obnoxious - he wants criticism to be filled with people like him who understand the truth.

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

reminds me of the utterly childish potshots he took at pitchfork last year...i'm not always a fan of the 'fork, but since I also write for a webzine it did hit a little too close to home.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

The thing is Robert Christgau DOES listen to more records than me! It's unarguable! It doesn't mean I trust him more (I'm a Europhile, he definitely isn't, for one thing) but all he was doing is saying that P&J reflects a certain consensus and that 'surprise' records don't often break through due to the weight of numbers who've not heard them.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ding ding ding

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean there's plenty of stuff i don't agree with in the essay (this is not a test as missy's first "real" album?? uh wtf; der deans usual myopia wtf-ness irt dance music) but let's at least pick the right ones.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Josh OTM

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and hey, much like democracy, p&j IS larded with the weight of the people: 1,400 entrants! that's too many by anyones standards, but i respect them not keeping it closed off to an internal cabal (ala, oh, every other magazines list.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean I almost didn't vote for albums this year, it's a mockery, I've only bothered listening to about 30 all the way through (same as any year to be honest). Singles on the other hand I feel I can talk about, but I voted for my albums anyway because i) it might be compulsory and ii) my #s 1 and 2 needed the points.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

but i respect them not keeping it closed off to an internal cabal (ala, oh, every other magazines list.)

But they do keep it closed! You have to be a professional rock critic to vote, right?

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not that I have a problem with hoping that people who vote in P&J have listened to a great deal of records, just with how it's phrased.

a) lot's of full-time music critics are happy to ignore most music as well

b) newbies are often more likely to listen to lots of new music

c) dismissing people who buy albums instead of being given them by record companies is just stupid.

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

But they do keep it closed! You have to be a professional rock critic to vote, right?

yes, and you have to be 18 and a citizen to vote in us elections...the indignities just never end, do they?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

But they do keep it closed! You have to be a professional rock critic to vote, right?

*ahem*

*looks innocent*

― Hardcore Amateurs (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Racist? Us? Can't be. It's just that Euro-Americans make more aesthetically commanding popular music than African Americans

Jeez, just because somebody happens to prefer music made be white people to music made by black people doesn't make them racist.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Xgau got clued in to Hongro!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, maybe hardcore amateurs should have their own poll - I'd love to see the results.

X-post x 2

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Do I read the essay correctly and see that Justified finished #46!? Below the friggin' perennial alt-losers the Jayhawks?!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I myself kinda thought Justin's been overrated last year, but c'mon!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

It got caught in the 2002/03 crossover period didn't it? Came out November - I didn't consider it for this one.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Anybody know when voting can start, and when it finishes?

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

well ballots are usually due in (very) early january...so really anything in the preceeding 12 month period is game.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not a professional critic and don't know anything about Paz and Jop except for the results, but I remember reading an article linked off an ILM board where the author was complaining about how hip hop press doesn't participate in the p&j poll, and noticed that Christgau comments on this (at least by my reading) with the following:

"Obviously the poll's imperfect. We never get out the hip-hop press."

Anyone know why the "hip-hop press" isn't part of the poll.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Doesn't Chuck always try to get a lot of the writers, though? I think he'd mentioned this before.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It's possible. Someone posted an article to another board where the author was criticizing the new Da Capo issue for having only three articles on black artists and only one or two written by women, and buried in that article was a comment that editors from The Source and I believe 2 or 3 other hip hop mags were never sent ballots for the p&j.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The article I am referring to can be found here by Jeff Chang:

http://www.sfbg.com/38/15/art_music_white.html

Near the bottom he mentions how writers of The Source and Vibe don't vote, but from re-reading this section, it could be that they just can't be bothered, which isn't P&J's fault.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Xgau I believe has always claimed in the past that they've sent out ballots to lots of hiphop writers but he's said that the writers have not been sending the ballots back. As you noted Jeff Chang touched on this on his blog and in his criticism of the Da Capo anthology.

I noticed that some writers for African, Latin, Caribbean world music magazine The Beat were not included in last year's list of voters. I don't know though whether they were sent ballots and didn't respond or just never received ballots.

Dave Marsh's Rock and Rap Confidential newsletter used to do a poll and he had an even larger voting membership. I believe he had a lot more contributors from around the world, while pazz and jop is/was largely American.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

And the end-result was that (IIRC) black music did even worse in those polls.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, maybe not worse. Even though Marsh had been fulminating against what he perceived to be a P&J Anglophilia/Fear of a Black Planet for years, there didn't seem to be any obvious difference between the rockrap and P&J results (though I think Kid A finished even higher than on P&J!) and I didn't notice any marked improvements in hip-hop representation.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry if I'm blind, but is the full P&J list online somewhere?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Not yet. By typing 'Christgau' (or whatever) in the Article Search box, you can get to see the Consumer Guide (or whatever) a day before it's actually listed on the front page. Which is how I found this article.

― slb, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

It will probably be up tomorrow.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess talks about 1,400 entrants but in that Christgau essay I think he says that only some 500 or so voted for singles.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"So though some 1,461 different singles were cited by the 508 voters (out of 732, up from 2002's 695, hubba hubba) who listed singles, the consensus naturally favored songs that had gotten through gates narrower than Google's or Kazaa's."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

How much more diverse/exciting/indie/undie/whatever it is that XGau hopes for do you think Pazz and Jop would be if voters submitted 20 albums rather than 10?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess OTM back there re: part-timers but that doesn't explain the rest of this:

And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio.

How does he know and who is he referring to? [which I dunno if I'm being defensive about this re: PFM (that would be a first for me!) - esp. after Xtgau's mostly correct Wrens/BSS/indie article - but of the six staffers that I know were invited to vote, not one of them falls into that category.]

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio.

This statement's also a bit hypocritical coming from a highly opionated huge dog in the process of yumming down puppy.

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

from a quick scan on second read, i did have trouble parsing a few sentences.

1. outkast
2. white stripes
3. fountains of wayne

4 or 5: yeah yeah yeahs

top 15: dizzee rascal

23. libertines

top 40: missy elliott, bubba sparxxx, warren zevon, drive-by-truckers, postal service, rapture, broken social scene, cat power

top 40? my morning jacket, ted leo, fiery furnaces, mars volta

― andrew s (andrew s), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

So does he want affirmative action? For every album by a white performer, you must nominate an album by a black performer, preferably in an identifiably "black" genre? I tell you, nothing will get critics listening to hip-hop faster than being told that not doing so brands them as racists. I know I'm sure gonna run down to Tower and load up.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess ilm's immediate response of covering ears and yelling I CANT HEAR YOU (or 'why are you talking about that!! stop talking about that!!') to anyone who wants to discuss racial issues irt music is par for the course for most rich yankee liberals but its still culturally irresponsible

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Christgau on a lot of points he makes here, but you guys are right, he shouldn't have said them. He should just keep his damned mouth shut, never be controversial, only ever prop up the prevailing system of reviewing, where people listen to and write about the stuff that they feel "most comfortable" with. Yeah, that's what it's all about. I mean, who the fuck is this old geezer to somehow think that he can tell us anything anyway? Let HIM put himself on the line sometime, let HIM write some reviews, and THEN he can talk shit!

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

or, b2d otm

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Rich?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i knew ppl wd be chiming in w 'but i only own 1500 cds and three vintage analogue synths!!', i grew up poor enough that rich means lower middle class or above so if you still care you can substitute 'well off' or whatever

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 468 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

And the day after we return all our unwanted gifts to the shops.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Ewing, how are you not a critic? This makes no sense to me at all.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

no paycheck

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that's his choice though, right?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

haha well he's probably making a good deal more than several of us "professionals"

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't say I wasn't one! I could hardly deny that. I just said that if you're using paid'n'published as the gatekeeping criteria (like JB was) I don't qualify. Apparently that isn't the criteria - I do remember getting an email though when I got my 1st ballot saying I should name a publication and the ballots still always get sent to "Tom Ewing, Red Pepper"!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't see why "publication" could not mean "website". People who write blogs publish THEMSELVES. Just like fanzine writers, many of whom also vote!

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

no votes for Love of Diagrams?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I never heard of Pitchfork before I stumbled onto ILM, but I'm not representative of anything.
Um, I hadn't either, so you're representative of me.

― M Deeds, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

A critic is someone who judges the merits of music, literature, et al. by some standard or criterion, which, to me, could be anyone from a blog writer to a pro.

― Christian Rawk (Christian Rawk), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, I've noticed I'm often a thread killer. I went to the bar almost two hours ago, come back and have seemingly stalled the thread of the day.

― Christian Rawk (Christian Rawk), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 06:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'll bump it.

A critic is someone who judges the merits of music, literature, et al. by some standard or criterion, which, to me, could be anyone from a blog writer to a pro.

This applies to anyone who listens to music, but if they opened it to anyone it would end up like some People's Choice award thing.

― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 08:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone ever actually vote for jazz records in this?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 08:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad Sean voted for Aphex Twin though. 26 Mixes is great!

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 08:28 (twenty-two years ago)

sundar- I think Phil voted for that 'jack johnson' boxset but that's the only thing i remember seeing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and marcello voted for lunge's 'strong language', was the only free improv I saw.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

In the cold light of morning, my "sheer reactionary terror" comment is kind of overwrought, caveat or no caveat.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm surprised Chocolate Factory didn't score higher and wonder how much that's got to do with RK's public persona.

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

BOO FUCKING HOO.

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone catch Xgau on NPR this morning decrying P and J?

If you missed, it's archived on the NPR (Morning Edition )website.

― paul c, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

what did he say?

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

'i'm hungry, gimme taco'

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate to sound like Ethan b/c I do love alot of "undie" hip-hop, but this list is just embarassing...where's Banner, Bubba, 50, Ludacris, Freeway, G-Unit, Joe Budden, anything?

note: I really do like several of those albums, esp. Buck 65, Brother Ali, Jean Grae, and Mr. Lif, but still!

2 Buck 65 Talkin' Honky Blues WEA IMPORT 19
7 Lyrics Born Later That Day . . . QUANNUM PROJECTS 5
10 Missy Elliott This Is Not a Test! ELEKTRA 5
16 OutKast Speakerboxxx/The Love Below ARISTA
18 Fannypack So Stylistic TOMMY BOY
27 Brother Ali Shadows on the Sun RHYMESAYERS ENTERTAINMENT
29 Lifesavas Spirit in Stone QUANNUM PROJECTS
33 The Black Eyed Peas Elephunk A&M
40 Timbaland & Magoo Under Construction Part II BLACKGROUND
42 Murs . . . The End of the Beginning DEFINITIVE JUX
44 Akrobatik Balance COUP D'ETAT
45 Panjabi MC Beware SEQUENCE
63 Jean Grae The Bootleg of the Bootleg EP BABYGRANDE
65 Mr. Lif Sleepyheads THOUGHT WIZARD

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

some of those i'm guessing he hasn't heard/made his mind up on maybe (he's working on a big book finally), some of those i know he just isn't that crazy about (eg. 50, i suspect the ludacris)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

He moaned that the poll was lacking in black artists, decried the Coldplay award. Here's the link; look for New music picks from Village Voice:

― paulc, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

sundar, I was thinking about that: was there more representation of jazz when this thing started?

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

D'oh

here the URL to copy and paste.

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=11-Feb-2004&prgId=3

look for New music picks from Village Voice

― paul c, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

What would P&J look like if the people who didn't vote for singles . . . ?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

''some of those i'm guessing he hasn't heard/made his mind up on maybe (he's working on a big book finally)''

sorry but who is?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

der deangle

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

A friend tells me my two comments that went missing yesterday are back on now, at least on the website. (I'll have to check the print edition.)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I know my concern sounds like blatant self-promotion, but I really like having something in the P&J I can show my mom & dad!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

haha mike the only time my mom gives a shit when i sell anything anymore is in the voice (f'in old hippies...)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

"But mom, my take on the new Young Gunz record will have a huge impact in the Greater Wilkes-Barre metropolitan area!"

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

>>if you count the "Get Low" remix as dancehall then MC Hawking is the closest there is to a rap single on the Xgau list! <<

Huh???? Closer than Fannypack, Outkast, Vybz Kartel, Justin Timberlake, or Panjabi MC featuring Jay-Z??? (Maybe you're right, though -- I've never heard anything by MC Hawking. But if you're implying that Xgau's list ignores hip-hop, that's just ridiculous.)

>>this list is just embarassing...where's Banner, Bubba, 50, Ludacris, Freeway, G-Unit, Joe Budden, anything?<<

He, uh, doesn't LIKE them?? Or at least doesn't like them enough? (He gave Ludacris and Budden's albums honorable mentions during the year, which is like a low B+ or high B; he gave two Banner albums duds. 50, he says right there in his essay, he doesn't like much. Freeway and G-Unit, who gives a flying fuck? Anyway, I don't agree with him on all those albums either -- Banner and Bubba both made my top ten, though I actually think he *overrated* Ludacris's worst album, and he likes Lifesavas and Lyrics Born and Jean Grae etc more than I do -- but so what? I'm not him, and he's not me. And he's not you, either, y'know?

(And yeah, some asshole will write "Eddy in defends Xgau Shocka." So I'll say "fuck you" early, since I argue with the guy about stuff we disagree on pretty much every day of the year. More than you can say.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

>>I'm surprised Chocolate Factory didn't score higher and wonder how much that's got to do with RK's public persona. <<

I bet his public persona HELPED him in the poll, since before most critics gave a shit about his persona, he never finished anywhere near this high in Pazz & Jop. (And his last couple albums weren't a lot worse than *Chocolate Factory,* so that argument won't help.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: P&J and jazz.

I have a friend, principally a jazz fan, who excludes his jazz favorites from P&J so as to have a bit more influence on the poll. A fair amount of voters, however, go ahead and pick jazz albums (Ben Ratliff is a name jazz critic who paricipates in the poll), and there's usually a few albums each year that manage to get five to seven votes.

― dylan (dylan), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, and uh, Tchad Blake-produced record with covers of Nirvana and Blondie as highest-ranking jazz album shockah! (Bad Plus at #60)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

So I'll say "fuck you" early, since I argue with the guy about stuff we disagree on pretty much every day of the year. More than you can say.)

So it's ok for CHUCK EDDY to argue/disagree with the great Xgau but not 'lil 'ol me?

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't say you shouldn't argue with Xgau, Josh, and I didn't say fuck you to you. (I said it to the asshole mentioned above.) I just said the point you were making was pointless. Which it was.

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(I made a "Eddy in defends Xgau Shocka" once, but decided it was a stupid joke, so I am a repentant asshole.)

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

>>He gave Ludacris and Budden's albums honorable mentions during the year, which is like a low B+ or high B;<<

Actually, this is wrong -- he gave Ludacris a B+, and gave Budden and Bubba Sparxxx honorable mentions. Either way....well, I was gonna say something about hip-hop experts who voted for Songs: Ohia and who think Ted Leo, Radiohead, and Broken Social Scene made the three best albums of the year calling the kettle embarrassing, but never mind.

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, I sort of read that singles list wrong. Oops. Sorry.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I give a frying flee about Fuckway

― Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuckway? Is that like a grocery store that stocks sex toys and edible underpants?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "Fuck" Eddie Clarke played in that band.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Either way....well, I was gonna say something about hip-hop experts who voted for Songs: Ohia and who think Ted Leo, Radiohead, and Broken Social Scene made the three best albums of the year calling the kettle embarrassing, but never mind.

So now I'm not allowed to have an opinion about hip-hop unless I listen to it exclusively? Thanks for narrowing the parameters yet again Eddy. My argument before wasn't that just Xgau listened to some shitty hip-hop, but that he was grandstanding about the apparent hip-hop/black music ignorance of P&J voters when his own preferences seemed to me to be milquetoast in the extreme.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Thursday, 12 February 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I do have to give you props Chuck for including Hitman Sammy Sam on your singles list, I had completely forgotten about that song and how great it is.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Thursday, 12 February 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

In Xgau's P&J essay in 1983, he seems to have been much more charitable to "part-timers" who "lard the rolls":

I still believe that if more voters had more access to more music they might feel better about things. No doubt narrow-minded trend-hopping pseudointellectual sloth--epidemic among rock critics, as any empty-headed out-of-it antiintellectual good-for-nothing could tell you--contributes to this problem. But have a heart--so do time and money. Most critics are now semiprofessionals who buy or if they're lucky trade for many of the records they hear, while those who remain on the mailing lists often work in offices where any noise louder than the muffled clickety of word processors is frowned upon. I was struck by the experience of Utility Poobah Steve Anderson, who got to know two of his top 10, Womack & Womack's Love Wars and the Local Boyos' Moments of Madness, only because I slipped him my extra copies. How was he to figure out on his own that he'd take to those and not to the Blasters' Non Fiction or Hilary's Kinetic, which I also gave him? Worse still, how is he to guess which of a confusing, ill-reviewed bin of reggae or hardcore or funk or Brit-hit records to take a flier on? Full appreciation of democracy's pluralistic bounty requires a pluralistic affluence which most rock critics are too marginal to enjoy.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

(http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pj83.php)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

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