Perform the Geir Hongro Challenge on some Beatles songs.

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The thread I'm referencing: At last the Geir Hongro Challenge!!

One of the highlights of this thread for me was O. Nate and Nabisco both breaking down the melody of "The Long and Winding Road" and explaining what doesn't work about it. I've always wanted to hear more about people's thoughts on the Beatles as songwriters, melodicists, composers, innovators (if you will) -- I'm not a huge Beatles fan myself and aside from a few well-articulated and potentially semi-convincing words from Leonard Bernstein I've always found fans' breathless accusations of brilliance a little insubstantial. Less fawning, please, more details, more infrastructure.

I would like to see O. Nate/Nabisco/Leonard Bernstein-style breakdowns of Beatles songs -- what's good (or bad), why it's good, how it all functions.

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Geir; it's a challenge for anyone here who thinks he can give a decent answer.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"Mother Nature's Son"

What Paul McCartney's detractors almost never care about is his skill & efficiency as a composer. He is a cornball, yes; his lyrics are usually beyond simple, verging on simpleminded. However, musically (at least with the Beatles), he's in a league with Brian Wilson and G.Gershwin, and I think a sight better than R.Davies, A.Partridge and E.Costello (to name three people I consider among the best pop songwriters of their times).

"Mother Nature's Son" is among the most simple songs McCartney ever wrote, yet because he knows how to place melody within an arrangement (in this case, just acoustic guitar - G.Martin's orchestral backing is largely just chordal accompaniment, though again, Martin certainly realized McCartney had done the vast brunt of the work with this song using just his guitar and voice, and wisely recognized all he needed to do was give him a little tonal "weight" with brass), it seems almost ornately performed. His guitar playing (also almost always underrated) isn't just nice, or accomplished, it provides an amoung of movement and counterpoint to his exceedingly simple vocal melody.

Listen to the way McCartney plays under the lines in the verse: "Born a poor young country boy" - this is the basically the most important line in the song, ultimately about nothing more than being a kind surrounded by a beautiful world, and being happy. McCartney knows this, and supplies only rhythmic strumming to support the line. Furthemore, the chord progression here, from I to IV back to I is probably the simplest possible movement - he only needed to move two fingers less than an inch! Then, as he introduces himself as the "mother nature's son", he briefly also introduces dissonance (via a flatted 7th on guitar, over his own sung 5th), and comes down to a "secondary dominant" - to non-theory people, this typically occurs when you want to modulate to another key (and hence, mood) - in P-Mac's case, he uses it to move to the "punchline" of his song.

And just in case that sounds to technical, he stops down for a very symphonic arpeggio on his guitar, moving upwards from its lowest register. The sequence moves from simple, clear introduction to brief tension, and because McCartney realizes he has lead you on to expect a downward turn, he offers the peace-pipe of the upward moving riff into - oi la! - the V chord and "all day long I'm sitting singing songs, for every--" And at that point, he brings the brief, tense tag back for "one", restating the entire journey of his short song in about 5 seconds. Furthermore, he has gotten through all of this in a vocal range of about 5 notes.

P-Mac: able to do more in one verse than most people do on an album.

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(lots of spelling issues here - amoung? - ask if you need me to try again somewhere)

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

amoung?

haha it took me a second to figure out what you meant by that!

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"Aumgn"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

That's exactly it. (some other people better post in this thread, or I'm going to look quite the fule)

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

one of the beatles' great innovations was the constant tension between the guitarists' amoung of movement and ringo's straightahead drumming. this eventually let the band to break up, when john, in addition to insisting on playing amoung on every song, decided to marry her.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

If Paul were here he'd say, "the greatest thing about 'amoung' is that it doesn't have to just mean one thing. It can mean whatever you want, and that's really my message. Peace, understanding and amoung."

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

of course there was that sad episode in 1966 when millions of people around the world burned their beatles albums after john declared that the beatles' "amoung" was bigger than jesus'.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

(oi, on my own i never would've figuered out ringo wz a woman. perhaps that's because i'm amo(u)ng the non-theory ppl m'self)

dleone - your macca-son post was great!

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"Mother Nature's Son" was an attempt to ape Donovan's early sound. It was never meant as a serious effort, and should be taken as nothing but pastiche.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Pastiche or not, it's still a good song.

Jole (Jole), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Not too good, no.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Classic if only for the John Denver version!

Jole (Jole), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

If you want detailed analysis of Beatle song structures etc, go here

mentalist (mentalist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks mentalist that site is awesome.

Jole (Jole), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir Hongro Performs Some Beatles Songs

is how I read this thread title

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Cheers, basically Pollack musicalogically analyses every Beatles song in categories like

Style & Form
Melody & Haromony
Arrangement
Verse
Bridge
Outro
Final Thoughts

of course some songs don't have all of these categories (hello, Revolution #9). But it is a rough structure that Pollack hangs his thoughts on. And he did it all for free!

So if anyone doubts the Beatles compositional skills just point them to Pollack :-)

mentalist (mentalist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

'"Mother Nature's Son" was an attempt to ape Donovan's early sound. It was never meant as a serious effort, and should be taken as nothing but pastiche.'

It's better than some other pastiches he wrote eg. 'Honey Pie', 'Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da', 'Rocky Racoon', 'Why Don't We Do It In The Road'.

pete s, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yesterday deconstructed

Jeff W, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

jody, have you read ian macdonald's "revolution in the head"?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i have not.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish I liked the Beatles.

Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)


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