"There is not enough of nothing in it"

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John Cage once said of another composers work "there is not enough of nothing in it". I take this to mean the the emptiness or void at the centre of the music can clearly communicate the "soul" or the meaning of the piece and that he found that absent in the composer's work: it was so full that the music obscured the heart of the thing.

Some random examples of music that i think have a sufficient amount of "Nothing" in them for this to form the centre of the music. some obvious examples some, perhaps, less so:

Most of Morton Feldman; Much of AMM's output; Talk Talk's "Laughing Stock" ("Spirit of Eden" less so) and Mark Hollis's solo record; Murcof's "Martes"; Luomo's "Vocalcity"; Much of Photek's output especially something like "Ni-ten-ichi- ryu" or "Yendi" (but also some of the later house things); Plastikman's remix of La Funk Mob's "ravers suck our sounds" (as well as alot of "Consumed"); Vainquer; The Junior Boys' "Last Exit"; some Tricky stuff, especially "Stugglin'" and Aftermath.

I dont suppose i am specifically looking for music with alot of silence in it (like much of Cage's own work) though feel free to recommend me some, but more for music that has some kind of sense of NOTHING at the centre of it.

I'm not really sure what i am asking for here - help me get closer to the idea or just recommend me some music you think fits in with this general theme.

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 6 June 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Plenty of dub and innumerable dancehall rhythms. Also, nearly everything Timbaland has ever done.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 June 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I particularly like how Underworld have slowly put less and less into their records over time (in a sense). An Hundred Days Off is full of nothing; there's hardly anything there, and yet it's amazing.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Sunday, 6 June 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Come to think of it John Martyn in places: One World, Bless the Weather, Inside Out.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Sunday, 6 June 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Pan Sonic are really good at nothing. Or at least the nothing inbetween their somethings always sounds really good.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 6 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Sigur Ros -- {}
Thomas Brinkmann, Motor, Radboud Mens and lots of similar minimal techno as well.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 6 June 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Discordance Axis.

No, really. Put one of their albums on and stop paying attention. You will be confronted by the void.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 6 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Stars of the Lid, Basic Channel and its descendants, Voicecrack, an infinite number of experimental electronic artists I guess. And I once had a very weird epiphany involving Alexander O'Neal and his utter emptiness.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 6 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

mother sky/halleluwah - can

― peter smith (plsmith), Sunday, 6 June 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Bob Dylan's "Too Much Of Nothing"

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Sunday, 6 June 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Jed needs to check out Firmament II by Main -- very unsettling, very sparse. It's all guitar manipulation, though you'd never guess it from just listening to the record.

Robert Ashley's Automatic Writing could work, too. Utterly terrifying stuff; you just *know* it's pushing awful, awful buttons in your subconscious mind but you'll be damned if you can put it into words.

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Jed needs to check out Firmament II by Main -- very unsettling, very sparse. It's all guitar manipulation, though you'd never guess it from just listening to the record.

And remember the key thing about Main -- rhythm. Obsessive, focused rhythm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

ha! Automatic writing yes! i just got hold of the whole thing last week after only having heard a ten minute edit of it (on the Ohm compilation) truly fascinating stuff. I havent got round to listening to the whole thing in one sitting yet (in the dark, of course). I'll check out main too, cheers.

i used to eye those Main Elpees up in my local record shop years ago but i never got round to hearing any - were they connected to Labradford in some way?

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

The two bands did play together at points in the mid-nineties, but otherwise no -- Main is Robert Hampson from Loop.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

This will probably have a lot of silence in it but try radu malfatti (sp?) and his duo with taku sugimoto. got it but haven't heard yet.

http://www.japanimprov.com/indies/imj/futatsu/index.html

I think cage is talking abt 'clutter' (there's a manny farber essay abt this, but this is looking at movies) or overcompsing. Also cage's 'cartridge music' was the best thing he did as far as exploring the whole 'isn't gaps of silence great music' aesthetic.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Definitely Labradford. All about the space.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

La Monte Young, "Trio for Strings"

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Tony Conrad with Faust "Outside the Dream Syndicate"
Also, John Cale's "New York in the 1960's" series on Table of the Elements.
All three discs are pretty great, but I especially like the first disc for the guitar and organ tracks.

― Sean Witzman (trip maker), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

floaty = avant-garde

― m. (mitchlnw), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

rhythm and sound! rhythm and sound! rhythm and sound!

esp. Imprint. 18 minutes of what is basically a static loop. They know it's perfect so they just loop the fucker and change not a thing. Brilliant.

― damian_nz (damian_nz), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

also check:

Markus Guentner - Lost Paradise
Gentle People - Journey (Aphex Twin mix)
Sutekh - Privacy; Recession Clouds

On the guitars with beautifully sparse production tip, The For Carnation's self-titled LP is superb.

― damian_nz (damian_nz), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

For me the kings of nothingness have always been Steely Dan and Roxy music. And I don't mean that in a bland sort of way.

― jim wentworth (wench), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a Dali's Car song called "Cornwall Stone" that has a real epic, stony feel to it thanks to its deliberate pauses between each verse, and a total drop to silence towards the songs end. It's like listening to sombre religious music, wonderful.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 05:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Shellac should have been mentioned ages ago, but here I am, doin' m'duty

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Circle, I think, have an excellent awareness of the note-not-played.

― briania (briania), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Ca Plas Pour Moi - Plastic Bertrand?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

"The note not-played"- i like that.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Tangerine Dream - Zeit!!!!!!!!!!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

detroit techno

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

All of it ronan?

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

no I guess not all of it. but as a general pronouncement. I was listening to Laurent Garnier as I read the thread title and the sense of emptiness in alot of the tracks he uses is very strong. laboratoire mix, specifically.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a Dali's Car song called "Cornwall Stone" that has a real epic, stony feel to it thanks to its deliberate pauses between each verse, and a total
drop to silence towards the songs end. It's like listening to sombre religious music, wonderful.

Why, I was listening to that album yesterday. IT IS TRUE YOU ARE GOTH.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Now that Ronan mentioned Detroit Techno... definitely check out Carl Craig's More Songs About Food and Revolutionary Art.

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

Robert Ashley's Automatic Writing I definitely agree with...my do I...

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

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