T/S: Japan - Vs - Ultravox

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Bowie-obsessed new romantic glam kidz FIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTEEEEE!!!

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

John Foxx Ultravox or Midge Ure? I give it to Japan if Midge Ure Ultravox, but only by a whisker.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

japan grew more interesting as they went along, ultravox less so. which is a slightly different way of saying the same thing that colin did immediately before me -- one's choice will all come down to how much midge ure one can stand.

besides, japan's best records all sound much more fresh and forward-looking NOW than ultravox ever did (including the john foxx-era stuff). i wonder if this perception is a flip-flop of how folks thought about these 2 groups when both were still going concerns (during the early/mid 80s). anyway, at their airiest and most abstract japan would not sound at all out of place compared to any random kompakt group while ultravox will ALWAYS sound of their time and era (which isn't necessarily a BAD thing, just that their sound dates them).

besides, points MUST be deducted from ultravox for "daaaaaaaaaaaancing with TEEEEEEEARS in my EEEEEEEEEYES!!!"

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

t/s: billy currie v. mick karn.

(inside joke for colin et. al.!)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, let's just say all of it. Foxx and Ure. I don't hate Midge like some people do though. Oh, and I would pick Ultravox. Mainly, cuz I was just listening to "Young Savage" and I love that song to death.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post to Colin.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha ooh that's a tough 'un (x-post to Eisbar).

I really like The Thin Wall, what a tune!!! But Gentlemen Take Polaroids and Tin Drum are the ones to beat. John Foxx really came into his own after he left the 'Voxx - but not before Gary Numan had listened very closely to Systems of Romance and made some notes.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 1 August 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

(gary numan is, of course, that shadowy fellow hiding in the corner in this conversation. whether one sees mr. numan as a pasty blade runner android or as a fedora-wearing inspector gadget when he finally emerges from the shadows probably has some bearing on whether one prefers ultravox or japan.)

i'm not slamming ultravox (w/ either foxx or ure, though i have limited patience for mr. ure's vocal showboating), of course. i'm just saying that of the two, i find japan's sound more interesting (from quiet life onwards) -- i hear new things when i listen to them even now -- while ultravox became more of a one-trick pony as they went onwards (thanks to mr. ure, no doubt), though their music almost always sounded alluring.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 1 August 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with you, Eisbar. And if I pick Ultravox it is mainly because I tend to play the early stuff a lot more than I play Japan. Lately, anyhow. But I do love a lot of Japan. And they do come out smelling like a rose for the most part. No real missteps.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 1 August 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Ultravox I loved earlier. But Japan I love more now. And John Foxx is definitely some kinda genius.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 1 August 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Who's heard Mr Foxx's new stuff - Cathedral Oceans etc?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 1 August 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I've heard some of it, and it's quite peaceful.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 2 August 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Does he still rhyme 'glimmer' with 'shimmer'?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 2 August 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, how does that not rhyme in the first place?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 2 August 2004 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I vote Japan also.

I'd rather have seen a T/S of Japan vs Duran Duran, mind you.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 2 August 2004 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

b/c of this thread, i just threw on a midge-era ultravox best-of. there's so much cheez-whiz on the damn thing, it's practically a philly cheesesteak! looked at in that way, it has its pleasures -- "sleepwalk," "vienna," "the voice," "reap the wild wind," and (god help me) even "dancing w/ tears in my eyes" in particular stand up pretty well musically -- but there are some real clunkers esp. on the lyrical side. besides midge's now-infamously ridiculous emoting on "dancing w/ tears in my eyes," even the otherwise-fine "reap the wild wind" has the following lyrical atrocity -- "give me an inch and i'll make the best of it." WTF? and "waiting" sounds like it could've been on a freakin' GENESIS record or something.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 2 August 2004 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

john foxx's solo rekkids, though, are but one of the things on an already tortuously-long "must listen to" list of mine. to those in the know, how do they stack up against david sylvian's solo records?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 2 August 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

last thing for a short while anyway ... though japan v. duran duran SEEMS to be an obvious point of comparison, for some reason i think that comparing them to bauhaus would be just as (if not more) fruitful. nothing against duran duran, mind you, but not only is their the extracurricular connection (dali's car), but a spiritual affinity of sorts -- they took aspects of what messrs. bowie/eno/ferry were doing (particularly the glam-slam as well as murphy's and sylvian's vocal quirks) but twisted them in their own peculiar ways (japan going from latter-era roxy sheen to a more abstract and sorta-ambient bent, while bauhaus toyed w/ a alladin sane/diamond dogs freakshow).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 2 August 2004 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I can sort of see what you're getting at there. Japan/Bauhaus did seem to come from the same root influences, but as you say went off in somewhat different directions.

The fact this comes crashing back together in the form of Dalis Car is one of the delights of the 80s, for me. I love that album.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 2 August 2004 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a great album. Got bad reviews at the time for some reason.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 2 August 2004 05:15 (twenty-one years ago)

John Foxx solo rekkids: Metamatic and The Garden are a good place to start. The Garden is as romantic and pastoral as David Sylvian but a good deal colder and more bizarre as well. Metamatic is just cold and bizarre and the true font of all male vocal electroclash.

There's also a string of ultra-cold singles between 1979-81 (eg, Burning Car), not sure if they ever appeared on any compilations.

Raggett, Foxx loves to rhyme 'glimmer' and 'shimmer' - count the occasions. It's one of his little quirks.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 2 August 2004 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

"the voice,"

The much-missed John D once posted about how this song was actually a striking allegory for fascism -- Big Brother in cartoon/pop terms -- and I have to say I can't listen to the song any other way now. Right now to that one squelchy drum break.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 2 August 2004 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i remember that john d post too, ned, and i also hear that song that way nowadays. maybe that's why i picked it as a stand-out (or the pseudo-red army choir, which kinda feeds into the big brother thing).

and colin, pursuant to AMG the 2001 edsel reissue of metamatic appears to have "burning car" and a buncha other bonus songs. are any of these the ones to which you were referring?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 2 August 2004 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, unless my memory is failing me, all those singles are tacked on the end, after but not including 'Touch and Go'. My my, that's a must-have, cos those tracks are all in the same vein as Metamatci.

From the review: "On Metamatic, Foxx cultivates a curious air of disinterest that never seems truly bored" - very true. From interviews at the time it seems he was trying to imitate Kraftwerk, but really it's a sound all its own, not so much like Kraftwerk in hindsight, more like The Normal's 'Warm Leatherette'.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 2 August 2004 06:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Ultravox! > Japan > Ultravox

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 2 August 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

ultravox with foxx definately. ultravox produced by conny plank definately. ultravox after rage in eden, less so (with few exceptions)japan less so but definately with moroder and including oil on canvas and gentlemen take polaroids. and ghosts as performed on the old grey whistle test.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 2 August 2004 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ultravox! > Japan > Ultravox"

No.

Ultravox! > Japan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ultravox

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 2 August 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I could never get into David Sylvian's voice, and all that fretless bass gets annoying after a while, so it's deffo Ultravox for me - the original Conny Plank era especially (not the terrifying 1986 CP era).

― Kent Burt (lingereffect), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Differentiating betwen incarnations of Ultravox(!) according to who the producer was rather than who the vocalist was, does seem to be quite extraordinarily perverse / obsessive / elitist / pedantic....

Yup, OK, that sounds good to me!

I vote for Steve Lillywhite.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)john foxx's solo rekkids, though, are but one of the things on an already tortuously-long "must listen to" list of mine. to those in the know, how do they stack up against david sylvian's solo records?

Eisbar - Quality of Sylvian's solo stuff vs. Foxx's is mostly better, I think. Sylvian's stuff, particularly the first three solo records and his stuff with R. Sakamoto, is just so lovingly crafted without ever being boring whereas only Metamatic and The Garden really seem to hold my interest. After those two Foxx's stuff just seemed to go a little bland.

There's a really cool recent live set with Louis(?) Gordon on SLSK you should track down, though. Some of the newer things on there are a'ight.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

that's good to know - I was so pissed of with The Golden Section and sorta lost track after that. I've been told he's come back a bit, like Gary Numan.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

MUCH thanks to colin for the tip on john foxx's "burning car" -- AMAZING! if i didn't know better, i'd say that this song INVENTED both fischerspooner AND felix da housecat!!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

it should also be added to a list that includes pil's "fodderstompf" and goodly portions of gary numan's pleasure principle as a song that makes me wanna sneak it on a hip-hop station in hopes that it becomes a BIG urban radio hit.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

pil's "fodderstompf"...in hopes that it becomes a BIG urban radio hit.

?!?!?! Are you on crack?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

?!?!?! Are you on crack?

i prefer to say, "sharing the wealth"

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

if i were to somehow get on a hip-hop station and put on PiL's "Fodderstompf," do you think I'd get away with it?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

I think the first two albums each by Ultravox, Japan and Tubeway Army all fulfill a specific mood. Although the former two actually have a bit of Stones influence mixed with the Bowie and Roxy.

― Fastnbulbous (Fastnbulbous), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 13:09 (eighteen years ago)

I like Ultravox a lot, but they really can't compare with the greatness of "Gentlemen And Polaroids" and "Tin Drum", two of the best albums of the entire 80s.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 13:43 (eighteen years ago)

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