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.... where is production's cutting edge in 2004?

i'm not talking 0=0/Remarc edits or improv.

let's stick to linear styles for now.

i'm saying with hip hop/r&b/dancehall/grime/dubstep/4/4 garage/d&b/broken beat/house/electronica/techno/electro etc

Metalheadz had it at one point.

Timbaland and the Neptunes upped the stakes.

Akufen and Villalobos too.

Dizzee, Terror Danjah and Target are on it right now.

so where do people think the cutting edge of exciting production is?

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

baille funk

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, i couldnt say, at all. a year ago i would have answered target/danny weed/terror danjah/skepta/wiley/rapid immediately, but not so much in 2004.

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you kidding? Dizzee? Got it? Nope! Can't agree there! Since when is simply taking Billy Squire's "THe Big Beat" (Look Sharp...") and doing bugger-all with it considered "cutting edge".

You are more on the mark with NERD though!

― herbalizer12 (herbalizer12), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

that's crazy big beat loving grime

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

the production on "Face" is amazing...

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

dnftt

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i think Digital Mystikz, Distance and Kode 9 are pushing things too but i was just wondering what else people rate...

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

hey martin what digital mystikz tracks do you recommend? you talk about them all the time on ilm, but i've yet to find anything by them.

the most disorienting grooves i've heard this year have been sileni's "twitchy droid leg" and paradox's "i get a kickback," but i'm not sure if i could listen to a whole mix in that style.

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Loefah's EP on Big Apple is great, especially "Jungle Infiltrator."

Digital Mystikz' Oriental "Pathways" (Big Apple) is an anthem, as far as anthems within dubstep isn't an oxymoron

Mala's "Give Jah the Glory" and "Forgive" are on dub at the moment but are melodically mindblowing.

Mala's "Chaimba" (DMZ01) is glitchy, chopped and dirty, kinda like Basic Channel fighting some far east gong-wielding monks.

hold tight for DMZ02 and the 'Grime' 2 comp.

(btw i loved the Paradox LP, the time i heard it but it's hardly a new set of ideas, editing funk breaks)

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

This makes me wonder, what is cutting edge design these days? Because EVERYTHING is designed these days, so many more things are style conscious and high-concept. And everything is attractive aesthetically, generally speaking...

Is this true with music too? Was a point reached a few years back, as with graphic design and motion-graphic design, where the edge just faded and innovation was suddenly everywhere thus nowhere?

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe the ubiquity of r&b's innovation shot itself in the foot

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i think that might be it. when i read that, i was reminded something tim finney said about how self-conscious the explicitly machinic/sci-fi/robotic r&b felt/feels. like, there's a distinct difference between "what about us" and "milkshake" from "say my name," which just sounds like a bunch of funny sounds thrown together because they sounded good at the time. (which is why i think it will last longer than either of the two songs above.) the whole through-designed r&b phase probably peaked with, what, the second kelis record? the self-titled aaliyah album? the last few years have felt like not so much a retreat, but like everyone's too shellshocked by nasty-sounding beats on the radio so mmm here's some nice old funk to make everyone happy. (and not just kanye either...the timbaland beats for the brandy album are way more "naturualistic" than they would have been even a year ago, i think.)

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

even with dancehall this year..."coolie dance" is much more "naturualistic" (in its own queer way) than yr standard clank-clank-KLONK "streetsweeper" stuff

― jess, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh and that bothers me a little, in the same way that when all these rock bands started getting attention again just because it had been a while since the focus was on them so much (nothing about the actual sound justified special attention now as opposed to years before, apart from general production whizzbang/electronica influences creeping in here and there sometimes

then again, i've quite enjoyed hearing the older formula in hip hop recently of just taking a sample from the 60s/70s/80s and rhyming over it (e.g. Kanye, Mobb Deep)

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

so where do people think the cutting edge of exciting production is?

robag wruhme/wighnomy bros, le dust sucker, mathew jonson

stevem, i don't think style-conscious and high-concept necessarily imply cutting edge design. attractive aesthetics don't either.

― tricky disco, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Zinc.
Red Spyda, Just Blaze, David Banner. (not exactly cutting edge perhaps, but all three have a sound that recognisably describes their genre at the moment at least)
Rapid.
Dj Paul & Juicy J (the best producers in the world of any genre, period! crispest beats, most inspired samples, even electro sci-fi synths to appease the Tim fans, and they've been going for like 10 years now. There's a reason they're called the Super Producers! Stop sleeping!)

Robot beats are definitely still in i think, it's just alot of the robot sounds are slightly removed from Tim's electro influences, and sound more 90's if you know what i mean. (like Lil Jon using cheesy house keyboards and Red Spyda that phased trance-y synth sound). Perhaps has something to do with age? (although Lil Jon's quite old innit).

― scg, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i just DONT get the hype around Kanye as a producer. sped up soul samples - so what? gimme Timba or Neptunes or Little Jon anyday

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think style-conscious and high-concept necessarily imply cutting edge design. attractive aesthetics don't either.

you should say what does then. but i should've added that i think the functionality of things has improved generally as well.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"i just DONT get the hype around Kanye as a producer. sped up soul samples - so what? gimme Timba or Neptunes or Little Jon anyday"

this is precisely my problem with Kanye too (however much I'm loving "Jesus Walks"). Hmph.
[not helped by good ol' NME kindly telling me he's "saving hip hop music" - cheers, fellas - though, I'll admit..]

martin's 'ubiquity of r&b's innovation' point rings true too, however much I instinctivly want to say "no!"..but the more I think of it the harder it seems to be to deny (to some extent at the very least). Jess' point upthread suddenly made me think of the whooping spaceinvader noises in the Supremes' "Reflections" too, for some reason, I really wish I knew how people reacted to something so alien in such a song way back then... (that's derailing the conversation a bit tho)

― pete badmusik (pete badmusik), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i know i always mention dubstep but i think Kode 9's unreleased "Subkon" is pretty on it.

there's the half time-yet -135bpm skank, that suddenly rushes when the bongo break comes in,

there's the oriental sinogrime/sinodub style inspired by wiley and jammer yet hinting at Christina Millian's "dip it low"

yet those indian notes test your sense of key. is it tonal or atonal? both: some kind of in/out of key tussle - which r&b producers seldom dare yet once aquired, is v enjoyable.

― martin (martin), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

(stevem, sorry if my post was off-putting. here's a definition of design that sums it up pretty well for me - "the intellectual activity that produces material artifacts aimed at changing existing situations into preferred ones." that's taken from the last issue of dot dot dot btw. so my objection to style-conscious, etc is that those words seem to put too much weight onto the surface of things as opposed to the well-rounded whole. of course everything you mentioned can help achieve good design, but i just think it's deeper than that.)

― tricky disco, Tuesday, 3 August 2004 22:49 (twenty-one years ago)

vitalic, some kompakt stuff sometimes, certainly dizzee, to be fair basement jaxx's last album in places though perhaps it doesn't fit this thread title, probably lots of other stuff I'm forgetting.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

re: the initial question, please replace the term "Akufen" with "Todd Edwards" whenever talking about genius, thx.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

ok trickydisco but i was referring to design in purely aesthetic/visual terms anyway, and how while you still see examples of poor work, there's more awareness these days of both the need to and how to produce something visually appealing in line with general trends.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Villalobos, definitely.

great thread.

I'm not sure I agree about Terror Danjah, martin. I like him okay but he is a bit one-note. Target, though...

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The Areal stuff, as well. Some of it.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think we're really in an "innovative sound design" period across the board at the mo'. Even the mindblowing grime stuff tends to be mindblowing more because of the way it stretches towards more traditional melodics than because of some inherent technical mastery.

Dubstep is way too incremental in its advances to be a key innovator here - by that sort of yardstick you'd probably have to lump in any other genre with interesting production (which is still heaps).

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess also that's true, some people are pushing things to their limits or being rhythmically innovative but there's no real brand new thing is there except grime I guess.

It's infuriating/intriguing wondering about what the next big movement or mindblowing new sound will be. I guess it only appears gradually.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there anyone else that would sit alongside Villalobos in terms of "linear innovation" of this type? I personally wouldn't put Akufen there, even though he is grate.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I meant in microhouse/cliick house, whatever you want to call it.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Luciano?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

hot newsflash from Croydizzle: "this sunday... Mala( Digital Mystikz) & Kode9.....blacksheepbar Croydon......10.30 till 1.00..bringeveyone"

― martin (martin), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah target

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Danny Weed too.

― martin (martin), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

It's infuriating/intriguing wondering about what the next big movement or mindblowing new sound will be. I guess it only appears gradually.

that's only assuming there will actually be one.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

In 1986 were people sitting around waiting for Acid House in this manner?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

That's not facecious btw, just curious as to how the net has increased demand for constant evolution / reinvention etcetera.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate the idea of musical movements. It's very rockist of me. I mean, sometimes they're social, which is the worst, but even when they have something to do with the actual sound that comes out of yr speakers they often just have to do with the introduction of new technologies (electric guitars/808/MPC/software sequencers/playstation MTV music generator for god's sake). I hope that as the tech allows for more and more open-endedness and every person that sits down with a tool can make a completely different noise with it the idea of "exciting and new" musical movements that people like certain high profile bloggers drool disgustingly over either dissipates or changes, um, somehow, I don't know...

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I would be perfectly happy simply enjoying an infinitely multifarious bunch of musics whose only conjoining characteristic is that they're good to dance to even if it meant having to give up standing around with a bunch of other brainwashed kids looking over at each other orgiastically like "oh yeah dude/mate this is it; this means something, man!"

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

re: the initial question, please replace the term "Akufen" with "Todd Edwards" whenever talking about genius, thx.

Seconded.

Sometimes I wonder if all these people who proclaim Akufen as cutting edge have even heard of Todd Edwards (and also many 2-step producers).

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

just because todd invented the vocal-chop melody doesnt mean Akufen is invalid. Akufen took it up a level (and into a new sonic context), with the diversity of what he chose to chop. this is a progression that todd "self parody/stagnation" edwards could never have managed...

― martin (martin), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Brazilian favella funk or Puerto Rican reggaeton producers?

I don't know enough about either to make a case one way or the other, but perhaps they may push things forward in a interesting way...

― sk, Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i got the vauge impression favella funk was similar to miami/booty bass in structure, which never seemed that fresh... no?

what's reggaeton like anyone?

― martin (martin), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

martin, there are some threads about it. To my ears, it's basically a Puerto Rican take on ragga rhythms, though the vocals are maybe more hip-hop influenced.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Production-wise, I'm not remotely clued in enough to comment on reggaeton.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

tell me about Spanish language Dancehall

You got reggaeton in my salsa

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

What about mope?

― mope, Tuesday, 17 May 2005 06:32 (twenty years ago)

I'm more optimistic about the "sound design" quotient in post-microhouse/electrohouse now than I was a year ago. After a period when it seemed that the micro was gonna be abandoned it's come big again in the last twelve months, only situated within the context of massive toons.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

eg?

― Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

oh i dunno pick a tune any tune... dinky's "acid in my fridge" has been pleasing me lately! Also Alex Smoke's "You're A Bit Rough" (schaffel tune of 05) and another one on his recent EP. The Pier Bucci remix of "Safari" on Crosstown Rebels #2. Border Community stuff generally.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

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