What is Joy Division's worst song?

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Discounting the punkish Warsaw period, what is the worst song of Joy Divsion proper? I'll go for Novelty - after a great intro, the song settles into pedestrian plodding rock with what are possibly Curtis's worst lyrics.

― Meursault's head, Friday, 24 September 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

It's "Colony". That was decided years ago by a panel of experts.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 24 September 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Madness. Colony is fantastic. It's bound to be something off 'Still'. In fact, I'm sure this thread has been done already, and that's exactly what I said then.

― Jason J, Friday, 24 September 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it was their cover of the batman theme song.

― frankE (frankE), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going to upset some people, but I say it's Wilderness. I always thought the "what did you see there?" part sounded silly and the whole thing is basically one goofy riff.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"They Walked In Line" always seemed a bit silly to me. But of their 50-odd songs, very few are dud, maybe 4 or 5.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

no way are "wilderness" or "colony" their worst songs!

― tricky disco (disco stu), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

wilderness and colony and they walked in line and novelty are all classic!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

All right then. "As You Said" is a pointless bit of noodling.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

leaders of men

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah! wrong!

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way: DOO: Joy Division

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought of "Leaders of Men," too. But isn't that from the punkish Warsaw period we're supposed to be discounting?

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Nothing they did is less than fantastic, but I suppose to answer the question the least great songs are :

1. Leaders of Men - doesn't really get going.
2. Candidate - a little unnecessary.
3. Atrocity Exhibition - better live. A touch gruelling on recd.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"The sound of Music," probably. It's cool but so much of it sounds like sheep bleating.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"Novelty" I guess but I'm really not positive I feel that way.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm, looking at that other thread, i can kinda see where the komakino people are coming from. But i don't think it's BAD, just, um, not as great as most of the other stuff. or maybe I just don't listen to it as much as everything else.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"Komakino" maybe, too. I never skip any songs when listening to Joy Division, though.

x-post

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I know what you mean about Sound Of Music, Dr. Bill. The Peel version is much better than the Hannett one.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Songs nominated so far:

Novelty
Colony
Wilderness
They Walked In Line
As You Said
Leaders Of Men
Candidate
Atrocity Exhibition
The Sound Of Music
Komakino

... which would still make a fine CD.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I adore "Novelty". But it's just so intertwined with "Transmission" for me. So maybe it's just greatness by association.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

For me I always heard it in the context of the original Substance CD, grouped with the B-sides, so that connection isn't there.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"atrocity exhibition" is the one i might agree with.

― tricky disco (disco stu), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Like father like daughter:

http://www.media-arts.mmu.ac.uk/photo2004/StudentPages/nataliecurtis.html

― Akbar T., Friday, 24 September 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG! those audio clips are like the background noises from 'unknown pleasures'!

― zappi (joni), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Novelty is great. I like the plain (for Curtis) language and snarling delivery (What you gonna do/what you gonna do/when it's over). I like the tension between Hooky and Barney's Stoogey guitars and Steve's robo-drums.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Good on her for doing her own thing, I sez.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Atrocity Exhibition" I really can't stand, just about everything else I can think of is at least listenable, and of course, so much of it is great.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

robo-drums rule!!

― tricky disco (disco stu), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

one of my favorite scenes in 24 hour party people is the recording of "she's lost control" and then the playback of the results. genius!

― tricky disco (disco stu), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Atrocity Exhibition is great too! This thread makes me sad.

― Jason J, Friday, 24 September 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

If I say Atmosphere I'll get battered won't I

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Annoyman (Ferg), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Never reallly liked "These Days", actually.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, the bass on "These Days" is ace, so scratch that.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

You aren't allowed to say atmosphere or these days. you must try again, please.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

These Days is a touch weak. On the other hand, I don't see how you could like Joy Division yet think Atmosphere was their worst song.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

atmosphere is incredible. you're insane.

― drew, Friday, 24 September 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Those who are saying "Atrocity Exhibition" have clearly never heard any live versions of it (as Dr. C alluded to upthread).

My vote is for "Novelty".

"Candidate" doesn't work well on its own, but it's fine in the context of the album.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Jonathon, you cannot call "These Days" weak and counter with frigging "Atmosphere"!

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Friday, 24 September 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't really like "atmosphere" either.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"Komakino" def. I fucking love almost every other song on the thread.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

wasn't the sound of music finished much later by peter hook (like well into the 80's or something)?

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

like free as a bird?

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

New Dawn Fades

unmelodic and the singing is annoying

― Mr. Snrub, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you hate Joy Division? That's their best song.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, is Mr.Snrub Geir?! Why didn't anyone tell me?

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the Sound of Music. Ian singing "Love...of Life...is lifting me...HIGHER!" over and over again. Gives me chills.

Novelty's great if only for the guitar hook that seperates the intro from the song. I like Komakino as well.

Candidate is the peak of what bores me about Unknown Pleasures, dreary and plodding without the emotion of Day of the Lords for instance. They sound like they're on painkillers.

No, I still say Wilderness!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"Atrocity Exhibition"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, get away from "New Dawn Fades" and "Sound of Music." And leave "They Walked In Line" alone too, if for no other reason than the anecdote about Joy Division drunkenly singing "We Wanted Lime" at a bartender when the pub had run out of limes for lager.

"Wilderness" it is. Remember "Itchycoo Park"? "What did you do there? We got hi-igh! It's all so beau-ti-ful..." Ruins it for me every time.

― snazz, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

This "Wilderness" hate is putting tears in my eyes, TEARS IN MY EYES!

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 31 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

CORRECT.

― xero (xero), Sunday, 20 August 2006 10:24 (nineteen years ago)

possibly 'i remember nothing'

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Sunday, 20 August 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

listening to 'candidate' right now. fucken money

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Sunday, 20 August 2006 10:38 (nineteen years ago)

isolation is one of the better ones of that lot. but the keyboard sounds too much like new order for my ears. stephen morris does not play proper drums, it's the drum machine that i dislike most, i guess. the song has aged badly for sure. the tune is rather unnerving i find. curtis repeats "isolation" way too many times. maybe they shouldn't have tried dance music with ian curtis. that was supposed to be for new order. maybe i have listened to it for too many times. but i have listened to other jd songs as often. i guess the half-life of it is much shorter than that of most other of their songs.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 20 August 2006 10:41 (nineteen years ago)

funny: it never did a lot for me when i first heard it (1990 or so, i guess: i think i was about 15 when i became aware of joy division) and i wrote it off as a proto-new-order experiment. but very quickly it grew and assumed strange new dimensions, and i still think: "but if you could just see the beauty/these things i could never describe" is one of the greatest couplets curtis wrote. i absolutely love it: it'd be in my top five JD songs.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Sunday, 20 August 2006 10:55 (nineteen years ago)

x-post

i remember nothing live was pretty good. on disc 4 of heart and soul there is a version from a concert in bournemouth which is building up very nicely. when ian starts singing three minutes in it gets a little embarrassing. the end is instrumental again. the whole song would have been better without his singing. what is also great about this recording is when ian introduces the band. he had a mickey mouse voice!

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 20 August 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

He didn't have a mickey mouse voice IRL, but I know what you mean. There are some other live recordings where his voice sounds strangely high - it could be some wired acoustic effect or some mucking around from the mixing desk - maybe with a varispeed or an echopet or somesuch. Maybe a practical joke by the soundman Terry Mason?

For Ian's real voice listen to 'New Dawn Fades' on Les Bains Douche - "can you turn the foldback up please, Terry".

I obv don't agree about Isolation, alex!

― Dr.C (Dr. C), Sunday, 20 August 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

'WEIRD acoustic effect'.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Sunday, 20 August 2006 13:39 (nineteen years ago)

but on that interview at the end of the complete bbc recordings the second person also has a tinyish high-pitch voice. not sure if it is curtis or morris but i think it is curtis.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 20 August 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

Isolation? Fuck off.

― Domenico Buttez (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Sunday, 20 August 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

I'm with whoever said "love will tear us apart"... Its the only one that gets endlessly poorly versioned by shit indie bands on Jo Whiley... hmmm... It's the only song of JDs that I am utterly sick of.

― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 20 August 2006 15:46 (nineteen years ago)

Its the only one that gets endlessly poorly versioned by shit indie bands on Jo Whiley

interesting logic :)

i can understand why people might not like "atrocity exhibition" or "novelty" or even "isolation". but not liking "LWTUA" is like not liking oxygen.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Sunday, 20 August 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

So if the warsaw demo does not count and we discount Isolation from my not-so-hot-songs list, we are left with:

- Failures
- The Drawback
- Ice Age
- The Only Mistake
- Candidate
- From Safety to Where?
- Something Must Break

Which of these would anybody defend? I think my vote for worst song would go to From Safety to Where?. It is not really going anywhere. It would be ok as an interlude in the middle of an album though. It is not per se a bad song. Morris drumming with reverb effect is great as always. The more I think of it the more it becomes clear. There is no bad Joy Division song, not one!

I just realise that Failures is a pretty good punkish song, Dr. C. With some early 70s guitar jam wankery but still ok. I quite like Curtis voice on it. He doesn't shout but he doesn't really sing either. He ejaculates the words. Very punk. His voice sounds natural.

By the way I really love the instrumental As You Said which somebody nominated upthread. The hook reminds of that PIL song where Johnny Rotten repeats This Is What You Get all the time. Which came out after! A post-punk classic for sure. And the church organ like keyboards near the end are absolutely gorgeous.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 21 August 2006 17:32 (nineteen years ago)

Digital always bugged me as too repetitive. Which is strange because I usually like that. Natalie should post on Moize Bored.

― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Monday, 21 August 2006 17:54 (nineteen years ago)

ps Noize oops!!

― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Monday, 21 August 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

their cover of "Sister Ray"

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 21 August 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

covers don't count, obviously. and besides that their sister ray cover isn't too bad. not much worse than the original whose appeal has always escaped me anyways.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 21 August 2006 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

Hang on Atrocity exhibition is bloody great! Those cement mixer guitars, krautrockish groove, brilliant lyrics... great drum production, whats not to love (ok- its unpleasant, but that's deliberate...)

― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Monday, 21 August 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

their cover of "Sister Ray"

you should hear their version of "louie, louie"!

― literalisp (literalisp), Monday, 21 August 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

THe Only Mistake and Something Must Break are two of my favorite non-album tracks.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 21 August 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

All the people who said "Novelty" make me so sad.

― Sundar (sundar), Tuesday, 22 August 2006 01:11 (nineteen years ago)

"something must break" is an awesome, awesome song. urgency and synth riffage. "ice age" is like a slightly less good but still wonderful version of the same.

if someone held a gun to my head, i guess "from safety to where" would be my least fa ... no, actually, hang on, it's a good song. "just passing through till we reach the next stage" ... and that bassline ... ach. i can't pick a least favourite. alex is right. there is no bad JD song. there are just degrees of wonder.

FSTW is, i think, the only song they never performed live. how's that for trainspottery sadness?

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 23 August 2006 22:29 (nineteen years ago)

3way tie between she's lost control, transmission, and love will tear us apart

I actually do think 'She's Lost Control' is pants.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 24 August 2006 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

(def not their worst, though)

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 24 August 2006 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

I actually think "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is semi-pants. I only really like the Permanent mix.

― xero (xero), Thursday, 24 August 2006 01:27 (nineteen years ago)

OH MY GOD YOU MEAN I CAN GO ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT JOY DIVISION AND NO ONE WILL STOP ME???

Best not get me started...I will try to think of the worst song, though. Give me some time on this.

― A Cracker Jack On Crack (Bimble...), Saturday, 26 August 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

grimlord: besides from safety to where? they never played in a lonely place and the instrumental as you said live. in a lonely place only exists as unfinished rehearsal version, i think. besides new order's take of course.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Saturday, 26 August 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

I don't like "Atmosphere" much. There's probly more boring tracks on UP though.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Saturday, 26 August 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

I've always liked most of the songs dismissed on this thread. They're not all my favourites, but there is that je ne sais quoi...

I'm fond of the live version of "Isolation" on Still - especially when the keyboard pushes the levels into the red. I've always liked "Candidate." There's a lot of nice subtle production flourishes. The bassline on "From Safety To Where?" is wicked and can often be heard in bootleg soundchecks from JD/NO. And if we're talking about the Still version of "Ice Age" I am speechless. What's not to like? "Atrocity Exhibition" is fucking great - especially the live version from The Factory, 13 July 79 (see Heart & Soul disc 4). "Novelty" I can concede is a bit weak, but I still really enjoy it when it's on.

I like live versions or Peel session versions of tracks from Closer more than the album versions, but still kinda dig the album. Similarly, the Peel version of "Sound of Music" makes the version on Still seem rather flaccid.

All this being said, I am sick to death of "Dead Souls" and can hardly listen to it. The intro seems neverending. I also don't like the UP version of "She's Lost Control," but I do love the 12" version. Most everything else in their catalogue is my bag.

― Kent Burt (lingereffect), Saturday, 26 August 2006 23:36 (nineteen years ago)

I forgot to defend "Komakino." I love "Komakino."

― Kent Burt (lingereffect), Saturday, 26 August 2006 23:42 (nineteen years ago)

I want to fuck Joy Division records for breakfast.

― Joker! Hysterical! Face! (Bimble...), Sunday, 27 August 2006 01:42 (nineteen years ago)

Yes dead souls is just a boring track.

― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 27 August 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Sunday, 27 August 2006 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

You are repeating yourself there (see upthread), Kent. I have to disagree. Dead Souls is absolutely wonderful. The long intro with Stephen Morris rather subdued precise drumming is phantastic. There is something rather relaxed to the song. I get this feeling of bouncing around when listening. It feels like being on the ropes. The dense distorted guitar sound works like a closely meshed net for me. It keeps me from falling down. I could listen to it on repeat for hours.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 27 August 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

All the people who said "Novelty" make me so sad.

Well, I was kinda noncommital. Maybe I don't have a 'worst' song.

Claims that "Isolation" is a bad song are mocked, soundly and thoroughly, by me. Grr.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 August 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

Something else, concerning live Joy Division. Mostly I prefer live versions of the songs from Unknown Pleasures whereas I think the songs from Closer work better on the album. It may have to do with the fact that they are more upbeat and that Hannett's production as ingenious as it is squeezes the high energy out of them, dunno.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 27 August 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

You are repeating yourself there (see upthread), Kent.

Doh!

Well, it still holds true. I don't hate DS, I'm just tired of it.

― Kent Burt (lingereffect), Sunday, 27 August 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

See, this is the problem with threads like this because I find I have to struggle to remember the unmemorable songs. And I think probably JD's worst song was one of those early, very unmemorable songs like "You're No Good For Me" or maybe "At A Later Date".

Now having said this, I never appreciated their version of "Sister Ray", either.

― Joker! Hysterical! Face! (Bimble...), Sunday, 27 August 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

sorry, you have to try again. warsaw songs are supposed to be excluded (see question), covers as well as i understand. besides at a later date isn't too bad. and i haven't even listened to the live version at the electric circus which dr.c praised upthread.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 27 August 2006 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

you all forgot rudolph hess :(((((

― zappi (joni), Sunday, 27 August 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

**grimlord: besides from safety to where? they never played in a lonely place and the instrumental as you said live. in a lonely place only exists as unfinished rehearsal version, i think. besides new order's take of course.**

They also never played Something Must Break. The Kill (second version) may have been played in 1978, but there are no recordings or set-lists to prove/disprove.

As Kent said, Hooky used to like warming up with the FSTW bassline, but the song was never played as a whole.

I am still not computing this 'worst JD song' thing. I grudgingly came up with Failures upthread, but it's still rather fine and thrilling.

― Dr.C (Dr.C), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

according to the joy division fans club site both songs (something must break and the kill, #2) were played live but no recordings exist.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 20:41 (nineteen years ago)

You're right - I checked with Mark Johnson's book last night, as I had a feeling that there was a reference to SMB being played once. There's no recording of the Canterbury gig though. Likewise the second Bowden Vale gig where The Kill was supposed to have been played.

― Dr.C (Dr.C), Wednesday, 30 August 2006 09:08 (nineteen years ago)

four years pass...

my answer is 'autosuggestion'

― charlie h, Thursday, 2 December 2010 02:57 (fourteen years ago)

Colony is one of the most haunting things they ever did. I find I Remember Nothing pretty tedious

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Thursday, 2 December 2010 13:11 (fourteen years ago)

surprised noone has said "Eternal" yet — what a forgettable snoozer

― 'The Road'(a hundred less-than signs)'Taken' (bernard snowy), Thursday, 2 December 2010 14:05 (fourteen years ago)

they're all kind of bad with a couple exceptions, like Atmosphere. I feel embarrassed when I listen to the plodding, angsty, overwrought emotional content that makes up the bulk of their output.

― Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Thursday, 2 December 2010 15:32 (fourteen years ago)

yeah but most of 'em at least got grooves 'n shit

― 'The Road'(a hundred less-than signs)'Taken' (bernard snowy), Thursday, 2 December 2010 16:38 (fourteen years ago)

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