iPod/iTunes's shuffle -- is it really random?

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I swear my iTunes plays certain songs over and over again while neglecting others. At first I thought maybe it kept track of what I tend to skip, but it keeps giving me Beck's "Ramshackle" which I almost always skip.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

WHY DOES ITUNES SHUFFLE PLAY THE SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER

― Dr. Z Indahouse (AaronHz), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

i think about this all the time too - does it kinda lean towards replaying tracks you actually choose to play as well? there's no way its completely random - i'd prefer it if it was.

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops. Lock thread.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I just saw an article about this someplace (might have been the Wall St. Journal) -- Apple claims that the software does select songs at random. The article quoted someone as saying that their iPod passed a statistical test for randomness based on some number of plays. If I find the article I'll post the URL. . .

― Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, creating true random-ness is extremely difficult. No computer random-number generator is entirely random, and the cheaper (i.e. less processing power) a generator is, the less random.

The only way to actually, mathematically, do it is to use a laser and a photon-detector which ends up being a device the size of a shoebox, which would drain an ipod battery in about 30 seconds.

So it is extremely unlikely that it is "truly" random.

Having said that it shouldn't really play the same stuff over and over - differences should only be detectable using some really anal maths analysis. Though there could be a bug..

However, you do need to check your settings, as there is a checkbox which means it will favour recently played songs.

― Jacob (Jacob), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

What iTunes does, for me, at least, is create specific 'random' playlists, where, if I select a specific song while in shuffle, the sequence that follows is always the same. i've checked this against my 'most recently played' list, and this consistently happens, where i end up with the same list. It's not a big problem, because I can simply choose a different track to start from to avoid repetition, but it struck me as a very curious quirk.

― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 07:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, pseudo-random number generators, once started in the same state, continue in the same way as well. Could this be a seeding problem, ie the algorithm that decides where in the number cycle to start?

― OleM (OleM), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I read the same article, Jeff. It was in the USA Today insert in last Sunday's paper...no luck finding it online though. The article stated that you would hear every song once before it would repeat a song, but only if you listened to every song on your iPod in one sitting. When it's powered off, the random generator resets itself. Makes sense to me.

― jedidiah (jedidiah), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

However, you do need to check your settings, as there is a checkbox which means it will favour recently played songs.

on the ipod or on itunes. i don't have the latter installed here at work, but i can't find anything on the former...

― john'n'chicago, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Jed, that was the article I saw.

― Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

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