is "experimental music" a ghetto?

expanding on this, i think 'idm' as a signifier used to have an academic/futurist currency that made it a favorable genre for brainy mainstream co-option, with radiohead being the most obvious perps. now that idm has lost its lustre, will 'experimental' step in to become the next onesheet spice of choice?

Or is this a new, particular use of "experimental" that has some kind of recent connotations?

will 'experimental' step in to become the next onesheet spice of choice?"

yes, and it probably already has become a meaningless term, and maybe always was.

floaty = avant-garde

by all rights "experimental" should qualify not the sounds themselves but the process of making them. by which understanding "experimental music" has no monopoly on experiment.

i have this problem with "experimental film" too, and it engenders some of the same troublesome notions among its fans.

I'm going to go over to www.tzadik.com, they're pretty aggressive about selling their stuff, I wonder what kind of words they use ...

Masada: Sanhedrin [#7346-2]

Twenty-nine sterling studio performances never available before from what many consider to be one of the most important instrumental ensembles of the past quarter century. Over two and a half hours of rare alternates, many even more exciting than the original releases, were handpicked by Zorn from the legendary sessions of 1994-1997 and are accompanied by a lush booklet filled with photos, scores, written tributes and remembrances. This pioneering band, that spearheaded Radical Jewish Culture and helped bring Jewish music into the 21st Century, continues to inspire Jews and music lovers the world over with an original musical language of honesty, imagination and originality drawing on many pasts and looks toward a myriad of futures. This is where it all began.

John Zorn: Filmworks XVI [#7347]

Zorn’s latest soundtrack is scored for percussion and electronics, and features two masterful musicians who have been working with him consistently since 1981: Cyro Baptista and Ikue Mori. The subject of the film is quite remarkable—men who work life-threatening jobs—and as the settings jump from Java to China, Nigeria to the Ukraine, so does the music. Steaming sulphur mines, the bloodbaths of a brutal slaughterhouse…these are just a few of the scenes that are evoked in this unique score that blends dynamic rhythms with ambient soundscapes.

Composer Series
Jacques Coursil: Minimal Brass [#8016]

The first recording since 1969 from one of the legends of the New York experimental music scene who has collaborated with Anthony Braxton, Sunny Murray, Perry Robinson, Albert Ayler and many others. After two astounding albums incorporating serial techniques into the angry energy of free jazz, Jacques Coursil dropped out of the music scene and returned to his native Martinique to teach linguistic theory…but he never stopped playing and never lost his connection to the music. Minimal Brass is a new beginning for this remarkable maverick [MAVERICK - ALWAYS A FAVORITE], a fabulous suite incorporating sound, noise and texture into a swirling masterpiece of overdubbed trumpets. Circular breathing, French philosophy and soulful lyricism from one of modern [MODERN'S GOOD TOO] music’s lost masters.

Time of Orchids: Sarcast While [#8013]

Time of Orchids blurs the line between metal, classical and industrial with stunning technical prowess and this new CD is their most ambitious work to date—a powerful suite exploring complex harmonies and chaotic textures with remarkable intensity and ghostlike beauty. Featuring the remarkable Julee Cruise from Twin Peaks on guest vocals, Sarcast While is an avant-rock masterpiece. Haunting synths, manic shrieks and jagged guitar/bass/drums interplay from a young band pioneering a complex and vibrant new rock sound.

this statement is so far outside the contemporary ilm-esque discourse on music that it made me laugh in total awe.

on the other hand, real-life fans of experimental music i've encountered have had some of the most open-minded, genre-hopping tastes of anyone i know, usually guided by very music-specific characteristics (unique form, texture, etc., as opposed to "indie band i hate it" or "jock music i hate it"). this may be because it takes a big leap of faith (in my experience at least) to jump into something "experimental" and figure out you enjoy it on a gut level, like learning a new language or something. from here, learning other languages is easier--and you can think much more clearly about music in general + why you like it + why you don't.

me: sonic youth -> derek bailey, AMM -> bob marley, missy, britney

and its only a fiver :-)

I know what you mean abt the first part of yr post Bob but I think the idea that an artist demands more is surely to do with the increased closeness between him/her and the audience. also you're right the general impression I get (from reading stuff here also) is the more engaged to the mainstream needn't exclude the notion that experimentation could occur => certain sounds in new contexts can provoke shifts just as much as new processes manufactured by an avant-garde. But I also love many non-song forms too (whether new or not).

John Peel not adequately replaced
Mixing It axed from Radio 3
and now BBC has axed the Experimental Music section of it's website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/experimental/

The 'Experimental' genre is no longer being updated by the BBC Music team. You might find what you're looking for in either Dance & Electronica, Rock & Indie or Jazz & Blues.