What acts do you understand to be defined by the term "sophistopop"?

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Well?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

Sounds like a coinage to describe the likes of The Bathers and Divine Comedy.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

Momus, maybe.

― Jena (JenaP), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

Or Johnny Hates Jazz, Danny Wilson?

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

Stephen Merritt, Jazz Butchers

― David Allen (David Allen), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Dom, wherever did you find this darling little descriptor?

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Divine Comedy, Thomas Dolby, Prefab Sprout, The Blue Nile, Talk Talk, Japan, David Sylvian, late period Roxy Music, Pet Shop Boys, 10cc.

Plus lots of others.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

ahem ..

Level 42 C/D?

S&D: Sophistipop

― mark e (mark e), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

(x-post)

I ask because I always thought it meant stuff like Johnny Hates Jazz, Sade, Simply Red, yuppie hangover pop really. But I saw it applied to that "pop music that isn't popular" genre that houses Annie and Mania recently, which I always thought was "underground pop", but apparently "underground pop" is like a more "credible" "power pop". So I'm confused, and was hoping ILM could shed some light on the matter.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

Saint Etienne.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

junior boys

― manuel (manuel), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

Sophistopop is not a genre so can be applied as a descriptive term to two or more acts that sound very different from each other e.g. Pet Shop Boys (the ultimate Sophistopop imo) or Kate Bush or Moloko or Annie or Mania or Goldfrapp or...

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:22 (twenty years ago)

you may even contend that Sophistopop as a descriptive term can be applied to ANY track that follows general 'pop music' rules but at the same time deviates in terms of message (not just 'i would like to have sex with and/or marry you' or at least going all around the metaphorical and allusionary houses in saying it). i mentioned Kate Bush because 'Rubberband Man' is great, i have no idea what it's really about, it smacks of a certain sophistication and seems resolutely POP.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I'm w/ the notion of Saint Etienne or the Pet Shop Boys (& maybe Pulp, on the meta-sophpop tip?) being the standard bearers for "sophistopop", because of their cosmopolitan chi-chi voibe that's at once looking back (the fashion! the hair! the guest vocalists!) & looking forward (the bloopy bleeps!). Annie sounds a bit like Saint Etienne, but that's it re: similarities, so I really can't jive w/ her getting stuck w/ this label. So yeah, some of St3v3M, some of Dom, & the nod to Grout for me. (I don't know Kate Bush from President Bush, alas.)

Statement bitching about shitty-sounding hybridized genre terms here.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:31 (twenty years ago)

Annie may merit the term purely because of the way she is relentlessly championed by popist critics, hipsters etc. yet has failed to spark the useless British record-buying public's imagination on account of 'deviating' from the norm (including by simultaneously not being British or American but not being a jokey holiday act either) but within pop boundaries. But the production and songcraft is relatively sophisticated too without a doubt.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

Ha - SteveM, I just submitted a singles write-up to my erstwhile employers re: how "adventurous" UK pop music seems when compared to US "pop music" (hip-hop notwithstanding) (which is kinda silly for me to disregard - "yeah, outside from THE INDIGENOUS, HIGHEST-SELLING & MOST FORWARD-THINKING POP MUSIC OF THE LAND, US pop music is unadventurous" - but that's why I get hate mail).

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

The "not popular" term of course doesn't quite apply here either. It does for some of the acts, but obviously, during the late 80s, Pet Shop Boys were certainly anything but "not popular".

I would rather call it music that is pop but which still has some kind of artistic vision in addition, which means you could possibly lump more or less the entire early 80s New Romantics/synthpop scene in with them anyway. (I mean, OMD and Heaven 17, certainly)

Also, strange to see no mention of Scritti Politti, knowing how many fans of them there are on ILX.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

Good call on the Scrits Geir. I never really think of them that way but they really are.

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

Never heard of this but I thought it might be something like the Decemberists?

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

and how does this relate to "sophistofunk"?

― Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

Brand new Heavies
Ladytron
Sade

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

and how does this relate to "sophistofunk"?

Might be a good term for some of the stuff that Prince or George Clinton have done.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

Might be a good term to take out back and introduce to the wood chipper, too. (But of course I'd say that.)

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget The Style Council! First band I always think of when I hear sophistopop.

Also a bunch of Slave singles from the '80s ("Just A Touch of Love," "Watching You") I would define as sophistofunk.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

i thought that was PREFAB SPROUT that invented sophistopop.
http://www.yk.psu.edu/~jmj3/cd_pre_t.jpg

― cornelius crash (cornelius crash), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

I believe "sophistafunk" was a term that Little Feat used to describe their later stuff, around the time of "Last Record Album" and "Time Loves a Hero"?

Would say that Prefab is a great example, as is "Cupid and Psyche." Chic would be a good example of something that is both sophisticated pop and funk, seems to me. Roxy Music. Steely Dan. Some of Jack Nitzsche's stuff. The Ambitious Lovers maybe, and some of Arto's '90s stuff. Anything glossy like that.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

Geir's first post OTM. I always used the term to denote the music of late '80s English smoothies like Swing Out Sister, Johnny Hates Jazz, Curiosity Kiled the Cat, Breathe, etc. The genre owes plenty to late period Roxy Music.

The Pet Shop Boys transcend the label, but I'd include them.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

G.G. ALLIN

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

Some other acts that haven't been mentioned yet: Peter Gabriel, Joni Mitchell, Grace Jones, Blur (the only Britpop act other than Pulp that fits with the term), Suzanne Vega, Tori Amos, Deacon Blue, Danny Wilson, late period Madness, some Elvis Costello albums.

I am leaving out the most obviously 60s/psychedelia influenced stuff such as Squeeze, XTC and Crowded House, but they might also be included.

I also feel like Dubstar and Lightning Seeds were a bit too pure pop too fit quite into the term. The same goes for the entire Powerpop genre.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

oblivians

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

Also, New Order (minus their postpunk debut). Would also say the two Madonna albums from the second half of the 80s partly fit in.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

Black Dice

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

You guys are being too liberal, I think. Sophistopop DOES mean something, after all. As others have said: Sade, Simply Red, The Style Council, pre-Missing Everything But The Girl, etc. I mentally file the Pet Shop Boys under Hi-NRG.

You know, there's a list of associated artists over at AMG. I'd post it had I not forgotten my password.

― Atnevon (Atnevon), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

B-B-But. Simply Red were not sophisticated at all, just boring bland MOR.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

I was wondering about the gender breakdown on this. How often are men who make pop music proclaimed to be "sophisticated" versus women?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

Prefab Sprout, Tears for Fears, Simply Red, Blue Nile

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

basically, heavily-produced pop music that's dense with hooks and instrumental flourishes but still very light and airy sounding--usually doesn't date too well.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 23:36 (twenty years ago)

Stars, Stereo Total

― stoleyourbike (stoleyourbike), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 06:43 (twenty years ago)

Momus, maybe.

Sophist O' Pop.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 06:48 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

so Paul Mccartney has teamed up with Killing Joke's Youth as The Fireman - and turn into a sort of progressive pop rock hybrid of a-ha / Thomas Dolby / U2 on this track

The Fireman - Sing the Changes

― djmartian, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 12:37 (seventeen years ago)

That's actually quite an impressively tedious song. Really, there's some skill at work there to produce something so spectacularly dull.

― grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 12:42 (seventeen years ago)

I am predicting that this will be right up Geir's street

― djmartian, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 12:44 (seventeen years ago)

It is. But why The Fireman? This sounds very much like typical McCartney at his best to me. The Fireman I thought was his electronica side project, really.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 12:51 (seventeen years ago)

actually, there is a run down in the latest mojo that explains how the fireman project has morphed into run of the mill mccartney stuff.

― mark e, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 13:31 (seventeen years ago)

haha this is timely. i'm currently listening to prefab sprout's "steve mcqueen" for the first time in my life. and very refined it is too.

― sam500, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 13:49 (seventeen years ago)

Don't know what this term means, don't really want to.

― chap, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 14:23 (seventeen years ago)

Lambchop, 90% of Minty Fresh label stuff (Momus, Kahimi Karie, Orange Peels, Papas Fritas), High Llamas, to a degree Tortoise ...

The GG Allin and Oblivions posts above got me laughing ...

― BlackIronPrison, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 14:34 (seventeen years ago)

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