Theoretical Girls

But to answer one question, yeah, this material is not only completely different from what's on the Branca collection, but completely different sounding. It's varied, some of it's just cool punk rock and roll, some of it's killer no-wave organ driven stuff, some of it's "avant-garde" sounding. I love it.

To answer a question nobody asked (yet), there is a Jeffrey Lohn LP of a piece he did for a dance performance, that I think he wasn't even happy with. However, Jeffrey also has more recordings of some pretty cool stuff that's way more "serious", or at least, less "punk rock" and one day I'd like to be able to release that as well.

On the Static side, there was a release that doesn't get mentioned much, an "Audio Arts" tape recorded at riverside studios London. 1 half is the Static, the other half is Dan Graham. I didn't know it existed untill Alan Licht made me a copy. More recently, Glenn lent me his copy of the tape, so maybe that will come out some day.

Personally, I love U.S. Millie to DEATH and unfortunately, the other songs sound little like it. However I do love the other songs very much, especially Loving in the Red)both versions) and Computer Dating. I also want to say that, working on that CD and spending a lot of time listening to all the stuff, that it's a shame there isn't better recorded versions of songs like Mom and Dad and Europe Man. I know I can be picky sometimes and don't listen to stuff where it's too lo-fi, or at least don't spend the time I should with them, but hidden under the reverb and fuzz are some great damn pop songs.

I also regret the lack of liner notes in the CD, as it was the first time I'd ever done anything like that. I promised myself that I'd make up for it on the Acute website, which has yet to materialize. (soon...) Also, the first batch of Theoretical Girls CDs has the songs Computer Dating and Loving in the Red switched on the back. Jeffrey's lyrics were great, and they'll be posted online soon as I get the site up.

All I can say is, listen at maximum volume. Listening to it again right now, I'm really proud I got to take part in that release. It's been overshadowed at times by the 2 Glenn Branca CDs we did, but this is something very different, and I'm glad people are still checking it out.

Damn a lot of it sounds like Sonic Youth, though!

I remember walking in Brooklyn with it in the cdman for the 1st time and thinking (even more than the branca stuff evoked the thought) "well, heres where sonic youth came from."

the TG stuff is still my favorite of the "no wave" stuff. I could never really enjoy Swans, but i love the pure punishment that come from "no more sex".

pick up the Acute release and then dig up the Atavistic one.

(btw: Dan, we (err, I) reviewed the TG cd at the time of release. did Todd ever get the review to you? if not shoot me a line at bb at repellentzin dot come and ill get the copy over to you. it wasnt included in our last print issue but was up on the web for a while)

btw, have we met? Forgive me if I forget. I've gotten to know Ihu a bit since she booked me to DJ Rothko, and now I see her out all the time, she came to my last party at Capone's to drop off Start It Up flyers. I also notice now Johan writes for you guys, small world, he used to live with an ex-college housemate of mine.

anyway, Jeffrey had strong opinions about what was or wasn't "no wave". Of course that's an old debate that I spent much time on at some points, and Tim here practically made a career out of it! Just kidding, Tim. Some would consider debating whether Swans had anything to do with No Wave, though they certainly came up in the wake. There's a second generation of bands in the 80s that came after that probably held closer to the experimental nature of no wave, perhaps V-Effect or Elliot Sharp's stuff. Jeffrey definately didn't consider it a "scene", but a specific sound, if I remember correctly he thought of the No Wave sound as the more experimental aspects of that stuff. He'd say most of the Theoretical Girls material was just Rock and Roll. But fot that reason, it's definately more accessible then most of the other music that was considered No Wave, whether the primary No New York bands, or the lesser known Soho bands. And I agree, while Mars definately put a permanent hole in my head, I certainly find myself rocking out and singing along to Theoretical Girls more often.

Spencer, the Theoretical Girls has very little in common with what Branca would later do. If you take "Lesson #1" and maybe imagine it as only a few moments at the end of a punk-rock/proto-Sonic Youth 4 minute song, you get a better idea. There was/is this debate about where those sounds came from, who originated what, but at some point, all coming from slightly different places, Jeffrey Lohn, Glenn Branca and Rhys Chatham all started playing with the idea of "extended" guitar pieces. Whether the influence came from classical music, contemporary avant-garde, minimalism, prog-rock, whatever, it must've made some sense to all at the time. Listen to the last minute and a half of Computer Dating and you can hear some of that. On Chatham's mid/late 80s release Die Donnergotter, there is a later recording of a piece he composed in 1977 called Guitar Trio, which is definately a minimalist rock band workout. To further show the incestousness of the scene, the 1981 recording of Guitar Trio features David Linton, who was in Lee Ranaldo's pre-Sonic Youth band, the Flucts, and Nina Canal of SY's fave, Ut. Nina was also in Chatham's no wave band The Gynaecologists, which I've never heard, and supposedly was the woman responsable for introducing Brian Eno to all the artists on the no wave scene in the late 70s.

sorry spencer, I already wrote this response before seeing your disregard, so may as well post...

and thanks maria...I should be coming down to philly this summer, Dave P. and RVNG is putting out a Crazy Rhythms Mix CD!

http://www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/review/396

“For an art music audience, both 'Guitar Trio' and 'Drastic Classicism' were vigorous new strains of overtone-based minimalism, lyrical in content and structurally austere, which synthesized two different musics to arrive at a striking new form (…) what the musicians in my ensemble were hearing as a kind of viscous, gelatinous sphere of shimmering overtones, the rock community heard as an ear shattering wall-of-sound (…) Everyone heard the pieces in a different way.”
Rhys Chatham

Drastic Classicism is another cool guitar piece that can be easily found on the ubiquitous "New Music From Antarctica" compilation.

i cant find this antartica record anywhere... we have a copy at WPRB but id like my own. dude, you should reissue that.

Sorry to be less than clear earlier. I mentioned Swans because their work is so brutal i can't enjoy listening to it. That said, some of the purely pounding moments on the TG album make me very very happy.

The fact that pop music or rock is totally burried in rubble is what i like about TG. I think jeffrey's work is fundimentally different with the other things lumpedin with no wave.

Is this stuff available at all. And damn Lee and Thurston bringing it up in the invisible jukebox and making me want it.

and to totally clarify...i never connect Swans to no wave.

also, the ut album (or rather 2 x 12") that came out on blast first - 'in guts house' shouldn't be too hard to find. i haven't listened to it since it came out but might go and reinvestigate.

By later stuff, I'm referring to the two Blast First releases, which I believe were their last two records, the 2x12" In Gut's House and the Albini produced LP Griller. I don't know if they were still in print, or if there were just so many copies, but they kept turning up everywhere. I remember recently still seeing Griller at a place like Other Music. All of their stuff is fascinating, but the best tracks too me are when they get the poppiest and sound like the Raincoats evil twin sister or something. Keith, definately throw on the songs Evangelist and especially Mosquito Botticelli from In Gut's House.

One of the members, I think Jacqui Ham, had a more recent band called Dial who I got to catch at the Knitting Factory. More dark NYC-style guitar stuff.

The Swans, or any of those bands aren't far off, I mean, I'd imagine it'd be hard for many of those bands to shake the no wave shadow. Gira was previously in a band called Circus Mort with a guy who recently made a movie connecting the NY scene of then to today called Kill Yr. Idols. Haven't seen it yet, though.

While on this topic, I'd like to always bring up Live Skull, who never got the attention of Sonic Youth or the Swans, but had some great moments, especially later in the 80s when Thalia Zedek took over on vocals, the LPs Dusted and Positraction have some great moments not unlike Griller...brutal guitar noise with intense yet melodic and beautiful female vocals. I've always thought Live Skull's song 5D is one of the great songs of all time, and others have agreed!

As far as the earlier Ut material, I have a few of the records, Early Live Life, Conviction, and a 12" on Rough Trade, or through them I think, and I probably haven't listened to them enough, should give them some more spins. Sonic Youth were big fans, obviously, and the Wire listed Early Live Life on their No Wave primer, the original supplement that came with the New York Noise issue in the 90s, not the recent one from 2002(was it there as well?) The Wire then wrote that "Ut moved to england to be closer to the Fall"! I know Stuart Argabright from Death Comet Crew/Dominatrix was working on a follow up to the Gomma Anti-NY record and was possibly including some early Ut, but not sure about the status of all of that.

Maria, I'm not big enough a fan of the entire Antartica record, though I used to see it all the time, if I see it again, I'll pick it up. For more immediate post-No Wave compiling, look for the Peripheral Vision comp on Eliot Sharp's label Zoar. Some great stuff including V-Effect.

I did a thread on ut here -Ut c/d, s/d

I got this boot of a show they did in london in '82 (something like 25 mins) which was awesome. I love 'early life live' (I have side two of it and its my favourite ut - very oddly beefhearterian circa 'click clack') though 'griller' is gd too - except that its not readily available over here - at least I've never seen a rec from them over here.

love to hear some live skull but again never saw a copy of anything.

yeah dial is the post-ut thing. the reviewer of their london gig hated it. ut also did a track for the no-wave fest curated by thruston moore though I can't remember much abt it the cassette gave another side to that scene as in the range etc.

Sonic Youth thread had me go back and listen to the Theoretical Girls, which I haven't in a while, and damn if it doesn't totally rock.

I lost my Theoretical Girls disc somehow. :-(

http://www.itunes.com

i looooove "chicita bonita"

did you check out the unreleased live version recorded at the X Mag benefit?

http://acuterecords.com/releases/act001_theoretical.html

the greatest

For those of you in London-Jacqui Ham from Ut will be playing with her awesome band Dial at The Luminaire in Kilburn on July 1st. Should be fantastic !