What is the original track sequence for Big Star's third record?

1.) stroke it noel
2.) downs
3.) femme fatale
4.) thank you friends
5.) holocaust
6.) jesus christ
7.) blue moon
8.) dream lover
9.) you can't have me
10.) big black car
11.) kizza me
12.) for you
13.) o dana
14.) nightime
15.) kanga roo
16.) take care

Although a different running order is indicated - but not given - in this thread.

Michael Stipe Joins Big Star’s Third/Sister Lovers All-Star Collective, Artist/Song List Announced

Featuring Chris Stamey, Mitch Easter Norman Blake of Teenage Fanclub, Jody Stephens of Big Star, R.E.M’s Mike Mills , Matthew Sweet, Tift Merritt

Saturday, March 26 at Baruch College’s Mason Hall, Presented by Scenic Presents

"…a Rosetta stone for a whole generation" Peter Buck

Big Star’s third album, Third/Sister Lovers, has long been revered by artists and critics as one of the most influential albums ever produced. Written and recorded when the legendary 70s band was primarily a studio project consisting of Alex Chilton and Jody Stephens, the third album was never been performed in public with the original string and wind orchestrations. That changed in December 2010, when an all-star band unearthed the original scores, assembled an orchestra and performed Big Star’s Third at Cat’s Cradle in Carrboro, NC. Performers that night included Jody Stephens (Big Star), Mike Mills (R.E.M.), Mitch Easter (Let’s Active), Chris Stamey (the dB’s) – the creative catharsis they experienced prompted plans for a historic concert in New York City.

Just announced is Michael Stipe of R.E.M. who'll join a mind-boggling array of indie rock all-stars to recreate Big Star's Third at Mason Hall at Baruch College on March 26th. Stipe will perform one of Chilton's most iconic songs, "Kanga Roo". The show's line-up of songs/performers is unveiled today as well (see below).

Michael Stipe (R.E.M.) Norman Blake (Teenage Fanclub), Mitch Easter (Let’s Active), Ira Kaplan (Yo La Tengo), Tift Merritt, Mike Mills (R.E.M.), Will Rigby (the dB’s), Matthew Sweet, Chris Stamey (the dB’s), Jody Stephens (Big Star) and will be joined by The Lost in the Trees Orchestra with Jane Scarpantoni, Django Haskins (The Old Ceremony), Brett Harris, Sidney Dixon and Matt McMichaels to recreate the original scores and breathe life into a bittersweet album that has impacted generations of musicians. As the evening unfolds, Chilton and Stephen’s musical ideas that were far ahead of their time 35 years ago will resonate in the hands of a collective of sympathetic, top-notch musicians. "We have been trying to create a concert piece that can have a life in years to come, trying to keep the spirit of the music and make it come across with the right emotions live," Stamey told Indy Week. "There's something about this record that connects with my generation, and apparently many generations."

The assemblage will perform Third/Sister Lovers in its entirety – fans can expect additional Big Star and Chris Bell songs as well. "It's easier as time passes to revisit that album because it came out of such a dark period," Big Star drummer Jody Stephens told the Raleigh News and Observer. "There were brilliant moments in the studio, especially Carl Marsh's string arrangements, which really take it to a whole other world. But it could be emotionally difficult to watch certain things happen. I was so close to it at the time that I could not see what it was."

Preparing for the performances was a challenge. “The original written scores for the record were long missing,” Chris Stamey says. “But John Fry at Ardent Records was able to supply us with elements of the original multitrack tapes. Composer Carl Marsh, who wrote the ground-breaking charts for the original record, used these tapes to precisely re-transcribe his arrangements. And I’ve orchestrated anew some other elements of the recordings for the players, in order to recreate live some of the aleatoric studio effects.”

SONGS/PERFORMERS

1. "Kizza Me" MATT MCMICHAELS (from Mayflies USA)
2. "O Dana" IRA KAPLAN (Yo La Tengo)
3. "For You" JODY STEPHENS (Big Star)
4. "Nighttime" NORMAN BLAKE (Teenage Fanclub)
5. "Jesus Christ" MIKE MILLS (R.E.M.)
6. "Take Care" IRA KAPLAN (Yo La Tengo)
7. "Big Black Car" MATTHEW SWEET
8. "Stroke It, Noel" NORMAN BLAKE (Teenage Fanclub)
9. "Blue Moon" JODY STEPHENS (Big Star)
10. "Femme Fatale" SINGER NOT CONFIRMED
11. "Downs" VARIOUS
12. "Dream Lover" TIFT MERRITT
13. "Holocaust" DJANGO HASKINS (The Old Ceremony"
14. "You Can’t Have Me" TIFT MERRITT
15. "Kanga Roo" MICHAEL STIPE (R.E.M.)
16. "Thank You, Friends" VARIOUS

PLUS: A RICH ENCORES LIST FEATURING THE ABOVE PLUS BRETT HARRIS AND FAN MODINE

BIG STAR THIRD
Baruch Performing Arts Center (at Baruch College) Mason Hall
17 Lexington (enter on 23rd St bet Lexington & 3rd Ave.)
Box Office: (646) 312-4085
Tickets go on sale at 11:00am Thursday, February 17th
www.ticketweb.com
www.baruch.cuny.edu/bpac
www.scenicnyc.com
Doors @ 6pm -Show @ 7pm

"Downs" VARIOUS
haha, is this going to be like a free noize jam? chilton would probably approve.

The track order is essential...and often wrong:

http://devonrecordclub.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/big-star-thirdsister-lovers-round-21-toms-selection/

Is there any consensus as to what the album was originally intended to be titled?

no

The PVC version is the one I'm most familiar with, and the one that makes the most sense to me.

xp

yeah I think the PVC sequencing is the best as well, but it bears little to no relation to the nonexistent "original" tracklisting

I got the record store day reissue last year, I thought that was the ”real” tracklist?

It was meant to be released as an album by the band 'Sister Lovers', cos Alex and Jody were dating sisters. It wasn't conceived as a Big Star record. So both titles are just convenient appropriations. And Chilton left the record for dead before sequencing it, so there is no 'real' running order. The PVC one that Tom played at our record club makes much more sense than the all-over-the-place Ryko CD, though.

Been talking to a load of people about this, for a piece I'm doing. Jody Stephens and John Fry among them. No one appears to believe there was any "real" running order, let alone in Chilton's mind. The one that became familiar from the PVC issue, John Fry told me, was the one that was pressed to a limited vinyl run to be shopped around labels, none of which were interested. That order was chosen by Jim Dickinson.

It can't really be surprising that there's no official tracklist, no official title. These were, after all, sessions that only came to an end when Fry told Dickinson he'd had enough of working on this record (an experience that more or less retired him from the business of engineering). Mitch Easter told me he'd heard the original multi-tracks, and it becomes apparent when you hear them that Fry is the hero of this album, somehow conjuring from tapes that at times make little or no aural sense a selection of what are recognisably songs.

One thing that did interest me: Chris Stamey says he got hold of the album in 1976, on a cassette from a small ad in the back of, I think, Trouser Press. He said he assumed it was a third generation dub of a dub until he heard an official release and realised it was meant to sound like that. Presumably it was a tape of the vinyl that was pressed up for shopping.

This is Fry on trying to work out when a song was actually finished: "Well, you really didn’t. It was one of these things where we kept recording and recording and recording and we’d get more and more tracks, and you really didn’t know when you were done, or when you were going to go back to a track and add something to it. Or modify it in some way."

Jody Stephens said the band name Sister Lovers had been mentioned, but there was nothing definite, and that as far as he was concerned it was aleways Big Star. Others have told me it was a Chilton solo album.

Was meant to speak to Leza Aldridge a few minutes ago. But she wasn't in. She said she would be.

very interesting. Where/when will the piece appear?

The Guardian. Some time before late May. Got hours of transcription yet to do.

Just found the relevant Jody Stephens line in this unending transcription about 3rd and whose record it actually was:

Well, I gotta tell you. I always had a sense of it being a Big Star record, except for a conversation with Alex with him saying: “Why don’t we call ourselves Sister Lovers?” And that would be the name of the band, not the album. It was a suggestion. Outside of that, I’ll leave it up to people to assess whether it is to all intents and purposes an Alex solo record. It wasn’t my understanding when we started the record, or at any point except when [we thought] we might call ourselves something else.

cool, thanks for sharing that. from what i've read, the big star moniker was a pretty fast n loose one from the very start anyway. i mean, there's "try again" from the first record that doesn't have anyone except chris bell on it (and i think was recorded as a track for another band entirely). and stephens doesn't play drums on a few tracks on radio city (richard roseborough i think). and obviously the third sessions were even looser.

look forward to the article ithappens!

Did anyone go to the NY thing posted above? - w. member of Posies, TFC, REM, Yo La Tengo is going to be at The Barbican, London in May. I'm interested.

Don't usually post things I've written, but I put a decent amount of work into this one about Third.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/may/03/big-star-third-chaos?intcmp=ILCMUSTXT9384

great! thanks for posting, will read later -- looks like an epic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvUuwKG0P4E&feature=youtu.be

not very revealing teaser for the "Complete Third" box set coming out this year ... will be interesting to see if they've dug anything cool up that hasn't been on previous releases.

When I interviewed Alex in 1981, he told me there never was any track order for the third album. Either he was in a good mood or he hadn't yet been hit with a million questions about it, but he seemed OK to discuss it. He also told me he thought "Thank You Friends" actually worked, because a little more planning went into it. For me, the PVC 1978 issue is the track listing that makes the most sense, and I made myself a burn of it a few years back that inserted "Dream Lover" and "Downs" on the downside of the record. Sounded logical and good to me.

just listened to that last disc of "complete third" for the first time; running order def. weird for anyone like me who basically only knew the Ryko one. Still think the Ryko running order is superior. The mixes on this are different as well; not better, or worse, just different.

“Ah we’re gonna get born…”
second drum track appears

There are some days, most days in fact, that I think 'Stroke it Noel' is the best song in the world.

Extensive descriptions, takes on thee engrossing xpost Complete Third here: Big Star