new urban country? k sanneh's latest

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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/05/arts/music/05sann.html?

b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

can someone please cut and paste this?

ppp, Thursday, 5 May 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

the long form:

May 5, 2005
Ebony and Ivory Learn to Share Country Home
By KELEFA SANNEH
Late last year BET, the black cable channel, and CMT, the country music cable channel, found themselves in an unusual position. Maybe even an unprecedented position. They were both playing the same music video.

That music video is for the song "Over and Over," a collaboration between the hip-hop star Nelly and the country star Tim McGraw. For Nelly, the song was an adventurous excursion into country music, but Mr. McGraw told an interviewer, "Ain't nothing country about this song." Still, the song was not merely a hit but a strategic coup, a way for both men to expand their audiences.

The song was also proof of a curious phenomenon. Country music has been getting in touch with its roots - its black roots.

Last year, the white country duo Big & Rich sang "I'm a cowboy Stevie Wonder" while touring beneath a banner that says, "Country music without prejudice." Their friend and collaborator Gretchen Wilson proudly and loudly proclaimed herself a "redneck woman," but that didn't stop her from recording "Chariot," where she tries her hand at rapping - and, more surprising, doesn't embarrass herself. And right now the country duo Van Zant (Lynyrd Skynyrd's Johnny Van Zant along with his brother Donnie, of 38 Special) has a CMT hit with "Help Somebody." It starts off as a tribute to a "backwoods, backwards" grandfather (not a hip-hop fan, one presumes), but then mutates into a gleaming gospel song when the duo is joined by a black gospel choir.

On May 17, this trend will be taken one step further with the release of "Loco Motive" (Warner Brothers Nashville), the debut album from the Big & Rich protégé Cowboy Troy, a black rapper from Dallas who sells himself as a country act. The album's first video, "I Play Chicken With the Train," occasionally shows up on CMT. The album is full of fiddle and steel guitar, and even includes a chorus from a celebrated hip-hop veteran: Mr. McGraw. When, exactly, did country music get so black?

The answer, as more than a few Ray Charles fans already know, is that the history of country music has always been intertwined with the history of African-American music, sometimes subtly and sometimes (as with Cowboy Troy, who cheerfully describes himself as a "blackneck" and his music as "hick-hop"), very unsubtly. And while Cowboy Troy's new album shows how far these tangled roots can go, another new release shows how deep.

The same day that Cowboy Troy, "the last of the Bro-hicans," lands in record stores, listeners will also get a chance to buy "You Ain't Talkin' to Me: Charlie Poole and the Roots of Country Music," an indispensable new three-disc set released by Sony Legacy. The discs compile recordings that Poole made for Columbia Records between 1925 and 1930, and to hear him is to hear a singer and banjo player and bandleader exploring and inventing some of the raucous sounds that would help define country music in the decades to come.

Among the embarrassment of riches is Poole's recording of "If the River Was Whiskey," a masterpiece of mischief, melancholy and nonsense. His voice is gaunt and faintly conversational (as if he's not just singing but telling), and he begins, "If the river was whiskey and I was a duck/I'd dive to the bottom and I'd never come up."

This isn't the first box set to collect Poole's recordings.The British label JSP recently put out a more exhaustive four-disc set, "Charlie Poole With the North Carolina Ramblers and the Highlanders." But "You Ain't Talkin' to Me" doesn't just compile old Poole recordings: the second and third discs contrast Poole's versions with other people's.

The contrasts are particularly valuable for the minstrel songs, written in faux black dialect by and for white performers. Eddie Morton's 1909 version of "You Ain't Talkin' to Me," with its theatrical delivery and comical trombone slides, emphasizes racial caricature.

But Poole's 1927 version plays down the dialect and plays up the plight of the henpecked husband in the narrative. Poole's de-blackfaced version makes it easier to hear the song as autobiography, but he also makes it easier to ignore the role of race and racism in the song's history. This is music that has lost none of its power to confound or to thrill.

These thorny issues are built into all of Poole's recordings, not just the minstrel songs. Few of these songs are his alone. "If the River Was Whiskey" can be traced back to a compositions by the African-American blues pioneer W. C. Handy. And even Poole's instrument, in the banjo, was for decades identified as an African-American instrument. The vexed figure of the white banjo player was in some sense ancestor to the vexed figure of the white rapper.

And so it would be pleasant, for symmetry's sake, to report that Cowboy Troy's new album was triumphant, the debut of a double-crossover: a cowboy turned rapper turned country star.

Unfortunately, "Loco Motive" isn't much better than its title. The sung choruses are pretty good but the rhymes almost always fall flat; in yet another twist, it sounds as if Cowboy Troy's biggest influence is Kid Rock, the white rapper who crossed over to become a kind of country star.

But listeners looking for some good "hick-hop" needn't give up entirely. Just as the country world has been tentatively gesturing at hip-hop, so has the hip-hop world been gesturing back. Black Southern rappers proudly - even defiantly - call themselves country. A few years ago Bubba Sparxxx, a white rapper from La Grange, Ga., released an adventurous album called "Deliverance," a collaboration with the black producer Timbaland (from Virginia) in which the two invented a digitally mutated, beat-driven country-inflected sound. One song, "Comin' Round," was built around a sample of the Yonder Mountain String Band. And right now, one of the best songs circulating on Southern mix tapes is "Country Boy," a twangy collaboration between a couple of Houston rappers: Killa Kyleon, who is black, and Paul Wall, who is white, and who announces, "I'm a country boy, I speak Texas slang."

Maybe Cowboy Troy won't find himself on BET anytime soon, but "Country Boy" suggests yet another crossover. In an age of rapping cowboys and hip-hop-loving country crooners, why shouldn't Paul Wall and Killa Kyleon get a chance to flash their platinum teeth on CMT?

b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:19 (twenty years ago)

This convinced me to finally check out Cowboy Troy. I almost like it.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)

im now quite sure cowboy troy is going to make me dig a deeper hole to live in

b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

there are probably as many video hoes on cmt these days as on bet

strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

i think it's where all the girls in hair metal videos ended up

strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

in yet another twist, it sounds as if Cowboy Troy's biggest influence is Kid Rock, the white rapper who crossed over to become a kind of country star

I'm trying to sense if this is negative criticism or just intrigued observation (I hope the latter).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

cowboy troy is in no way as good a rapper as kid rock

strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

take that for what it's worth

strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

tho it is nice to see deliverance finally getting all this post-facto dap

strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

There is going to be a Cowboy Troy/Pastor Troy duet/album/tour at some point, I trust.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

>i think it's where all the girls in hair metal videos ended up

Klosterman beat you to this observation.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

See also, Cdn "hick-hopper" Ridley Bent, who sucks so much I started a thread about him yesterday.

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

Ridley Bent, C/D?

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

I actually kind of like the way Cowboy Troy's rhymes sound like they could be a vocal track from 1983.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 5 May 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

also, i think everyone is blowing this "blacks and whites! living together! making music TOGETHER!" thing waaaaaaay out of proportion. i would guess to most country fans rap still isn't music, and most rap fans view most country as cracker garbage.

strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

It's what made this country great!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

And "smart" kids the world over continue to tell anyone who'll listen that they like "Everything but rap and country."

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

xcept for public enemy and "good" country

b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

i threw this up after a curosry reading....id like to point out that the thread title is entirely off-base.

who(')s country now? k sanneh's latest is better

b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

strng:

i agree on the blowing, but this is a tendency that may actually have had and continue to help disolve some serious problems in this country. shifting the expectations of how race and culture correspond could lead to something like better.

but thats a "no kidding!!!" point.


b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

after 'hip-hop and r&b' and 'country and nu-grunge', 'country and hip-hop' are the two biggest genres with the most overlap between audiences i can think of. i love both genres so i'm glad to see some give and take going on there (even if it's not that unprecedented really - cf. country disco, and jerry reed, a better rapper than anyone mentioned in the article), but 'omg black people listening to country - CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE? DOES IT BLOW YR MIND?' is as much a shockah as 'omg white people listening to hip-hop - CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE? DOES IT BLOW YR MIND?'.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

It's like the Civil War is finally behind us.

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

Among the embarrassment of riches is Poole's recording of "If the River Was Whiskey," a masterpiece of mischief, melancholy and nonsense. His voice is gaunt and faintly conversational (as if he's not just singing but telling), and he begins, "If the river was whiskey and I was a duck/I'd dive to the bottom and I'd never come up."

Oblivious to popular success of Foghat in arenas 30 some years ago.

George Smith, Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

http://www.van46.com/images/cowboycurtis.jpg

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

Wasn't there another Cowboy on Pee Wee's Playhouse in later seasons?

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

wheres hootie?

how many instances of that photo exist in the anals of this forum?

b b, Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

Carefully phrased there, b b

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

Good god, I wish the Times music section wasn't so irredeemably high-concept. Might as well leave the pages blank, forcing readers to hear the noise of the silence between the lines, et al. "Black and white and read all over..." Or is it? Music writing to save busy urbanites the trouble of ever listening to music, or wanting to.

Anyway, the real McCoy:

http://www.furious5.net/cowboy2.jpg

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

I glad someone's finally combining the sentiments of "I'm an urban badass" and "I'm a rural badass".

darin (darin), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

k. sanneh is a really good critic, isn't he?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

i like how he can find a phenomenon interesting and write an interesting article about it...and include a critical appraisal...but not necessarily confuse the two things.

also that charlie poole thing looks awesome, i'm amazed it got on sony's release schedule at all.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

it's kind of insane when you think about it; someone in the catalogue department at sony music managed to convince the powers that be that aping revenant records was the way to go. classic.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

yeah sanneh's great, i may have mentioned this in my complaint department thing to chuck on the broooce thread (though i think maybe i didn't, it would've been piling on anyhow) but of the big three in new york - the big paper (the times), the big glossy (the nyer), the big alt-weekly - the time's and nyer's musiccrit is kicking the voice's ass. the times has usually had good rockcrit though, a better standard than their filmcrit at least.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 5 May 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

Columbia's put out loads of comps like that, though--see A Darker Shade of Blue: White Country Blues 1926-38 or whatever the dates are. In the early-mid-'90s, they reissued a fuckload of old blues, country, et al, with deep liner notes. The only difference is that they were aiming it at people who were already fans of the stuff and not indie kids who might be.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

though you're right about the version-contrast thing, I overlooked that.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

oh yeah, i have all those old columbia/legacy reissues. they sort of stopped around 1993-1994 and have slowly started again in recent years (actually just the past year or so). and you're right that the packaging seems a bit "hipper" than it was before, and i think in this sense they're following the lead of revenant and other independent labels (and esp. the folkways box set that sort of re-jumpstarted the market for this kind of stuff) in terms of how they're packaging it. and so i think the charlie poole box seems a bit more...obscure than even the "whiter shade of blue" thing (which is one of my favorite cds ever). and that was pretty much the most obscure set on the "roots 'n' blues" series (well, except for the emmett miller thing, which was one of the greatest--if not THE greatest--major-label fluke releases ever).

run on sentence!!!!

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

actually the reverend j.m. gates thing that came out last year was likewise totally unanticipated. i wonder who's running the show over there nowadays.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

if sony releases a box set of minstrel tunes i'm going to wet my pants

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

There's tons of awesome shit on Sony's Legacy imprint.

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

i know, hooray for globalization!

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

Music writing to save busy urbanites the trouble of ever listening to music, or wanting to.

Heh. Perfect description. Or the place for big thinkers who couldn't cut it as investigative journalists.

George Smith, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

I like that Sanneh thing, and I agree he's great (I've said that here repeatedly, and started publishing him before just about anybody else did, as I recall), but there are at least three pieces in this week's Voice alone (Hold Steady, Fannypack, Deana Carter, and probably one or two others come to think of it - Weingarten, Smith, Mariani, Hurt, somebody else?) that blow his Cowboy Troy piece and just about anything else written about music in the Times lately out of the water, James. And it's not like we've had a dearth of country-rap coverage, for crissakes. I've written better about Big and Rich than he has; Matt Cibula wrote better about Gretchen Wilson and Montgomery Gentry than him, too. But as I said, you're welcome to be bored.

xhuxk, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

xpost. And is it "proof of a curious phenomenon"? Or is that the Times' editorial voice interfering with an otherwise well-written article?

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

Actually, there's less awesome shit on Legacy than there was two or three years ago, when I got http://wwws.mmjbdata.com/graphics/www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/album_image/amg/drc900/c911/c91179ec952.jpg

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

And K definitely beat us to the rappers going country scoop, too!:

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0148,couch,30258,22.html

xhuxk, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

And is it "proof of a curious phenomenon"? Or is that the Times' editorial voice interfering with an otherwise well-written article?

More like standard top-of-the-daily-newspaper-heap features section-ese. The LA Times's Calendar section regulary finds "proof of curious or trendy or interesting or hey, we just thought of it" phenomena.

Hey, I'll read the stuff. I've always thought of it as the modern equivalent of "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" without the "thanx and a tip o' the hat" credit at the end.

George Smith, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I could write a feature-ese essay on how all the big CMT acts I saw last week in the prime dinner hours were channeling influences from Brownsville Station's "Yeah!"

The legacies of Cub Koda and Mike Lutz crawl into the new country home

George Smith, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

xhuxk, have you heard Ridley Bent?

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha, and Brownsville Station were rapping out of Detroit in "The Martian Boogie" a couple decades before Kid Rock, too!

xp

At any rate, anybody who doesn't find plenty of the Times's Sunday Arts Section celebrity-reporting-as-music-crit stuff of late embarrassing probably doesn't have a home subscription.

as for Ridley Bent, nope. (But Charlie Poole, *Whiter Shade of Blue,* *Mr. Charlie's Blues,* Emmett Miller, Dock Boggs, all those kinda guys -- I listen to them so much that they're in my blood by now.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

My favorite NY Times Sunday piece in the past few months was the one were Sufjan Stevens was said to have found his muse in a man riding around in a dogcart for thirty years.

George Smith, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

Ridley Bent is a Vancouver hillbilly rapper with lots of big metal riffs. I don't think his album has got US distro, so you might not get sent one.
It's got very slick production, a real Mutt Lange kinda thing, which is what I like about it. A lot of Canada's hipster critics are lumping it in with ("Loser" era) Beck and Buck 65, but to me, it's way more Big & Rich.

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

That sounds like I ought to search out a copy.

George Smith, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

I'd call "defensive" on you chuck, except yr. totally right. haha except two of the pieces you mention are kogan and the last is all a compendium of good lyrics. but the section *was* particularly on this week.

so anyway haha i gave this seminar presentation on the black atlantic diaspora and music today except the professor totally sidetracked me from my reggaeton/m.i.a./diwali transculturation riff and we had to get into it all over again about the "crisis" of hip-hop culture and yawn and next thing i knew i was just schooling everyone against the typical "hip-hop was political music then it sold out and white ppl. started listening to it coz it was full of racist stereotypes" argument again.

the professor did bring up the sanneh article tho, while i was going on a "minstrel" riff, is the point.

everyone also grooved on this sweet bhangra mix over "get ur freak on" that i have.

sterl, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

>the last is all a compendium of good lyrics<

Well, I meant the Gross Hold Steady piece, not the Jaswa sidebar. Though actually the sidebar ranks with just about any compendium of good lyrics I've read. And Rajiv's intro to it was pretty awesome!

xhuxk, Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

I just want stop for a minute and say how much I appreciate an editor pimping his writers like this. Too many editors I know act as if they couldn't find the time of day to give props to there writers, but xhuxk obviously takes a lot of pride in his work, and that's r-a-d.

Huk-L, Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

oh, yeah. haha oops.

sterl, Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha, Huk-L, well at least I didn't say that Mikael Wood has been writing as least as great as Sasha Frere-Jones lately. (Oops, I just did.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

Times's Sunday Arts Section celebrity-reporting-as-music-crit stuff

yeah, those are dreck. but sanneh is great. and pareles is often quite good. i actually *like* the faintly middlebrow, let's-patiently-explain-this-phenomenon-to-our-readers quality of the NYT's music journalism. (In fact the pieces I like the least are the ones that strain to adopt a more jivey, in-the-know style.) even if i already sort of know what they're talking about, i think it's a demand that forces the writers to be clearer, more concise, more clearheaded about what they want to say. we've talked about this on a few other threads. it's also one reason why sasha frere-jones's pieces in the New Yorker can be pretty great.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

i don't know what the difference is between "clearer" and "more clearheaded"--i wrote that in a rush.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

yeah, amst, I figured you were up on the C/L stuff like Whiter Shade (you are the person on here that likes the American Pop box as much as I do, though I'm sure others do too and I just didn't notice). I was just trying to expand the conversation some.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 6 May 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

yeah, those are dreck. but sanneh is great. and pareles is often quite good. i actually *like* the faintly middlebrow, let's-patiently-explain-this-phenomenon-to-our-readers quality of the NYT's music journalism. (In fact the pieces I like the least are the ones that strain to adopt a more jivey, in-the-know style.) even if i already sort of know what they're talking about, i think it's a demand that forces the writers to be clearer, more concise, more clearheaded about what they want to say. we've talked about this on a few other threads. it's also one reason why sasha frere-jones's pieces in the New Yorker can be pretty great.

-- Amateur(ist) (amateurist@gmail.com), May 5th, 2005.

totally OTM.

Al (sitcom), Friday, 6 May 2005 01:14 (twenty years ago)

And I still feel like I need someone to explain contemporary country to me. Because I don't fucking get it.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 6 May 2005 01:20 (twenty years ago)

yeah matos i knew, sometimes i sound cranky when i'm not trying to sound cranky. sorry. i'm going to go blast some frank hutchison in your honor.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 6 May 2005 01:49 (twenty years ago)

"after 'hip-hop and r&b' and 'country and nu-grunge', 'country and hip-hop' are the two biggest genres with the most overlap between audiences i can think of".-Blount

also, i think everyone is blowing this "blacks and whites! living together! making music TOGETHER!" thing waaaaaaay out of proportion. i would guess to most country fans rap still isn't music, and most rap fans view most country as cracker garbage.

-- strng hlkngtn

Blount vs. Jess Harvell/Strongo Hulkington

I wonder if there's any soundscan or poll data or whatever to back up either of these views re country and hiphop audience overlap. My personal experience is more in line with Jess.

Steve K (Steve K), Friday, 6 May 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

this is basically sanneh making a mountain of whats an insignificant, shitty, musically dearth-like molehill.

blahbarian, Friday, 6 May 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

"the last of the Bro-hicans,"

OMG

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 6 May 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)


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