german hip-hop, neo-nazis, misogyny, etc. in the new york times

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has anybody heard this stuff??!??

August 9, 2005
Germany's Rap Music Veers Toward the Violent
By ANDREAS TZORTZIS

BERLIN, Aug. 8 - Germany's most controversial rapper has five tattoos, stomach-churning lyrics, impressive record sales and, somewhat improbably, admirers among both immigrants and the neo-Nazi skinheads who rail against them.

He is also exceedingly polite and quick to refill a guest's glass of water, and he occasionally goes grocery shopping for his mom, with whom he shared an apartment until three months ago.

"In reality I'm a relaxed guy who likes to chill, who's funny and who's seen some stuff," said Bushido, 26, the son a German woman and a Tunisian man, whose real name is Anis Ferchichi. "But these people make me out to be the Devil."

In the past half year, Bushido and other gangsta rappers, largely from Germany's immigrant communities, have landed on a media watch list normally populated by right-wing neo-Nazi bands. They have attracted the wrath of politicians along with a following of hundreds of thousands of German youths mesmerized by their rhymes about dangerous neighborhoods, stab wounds and groupie sex.

A good 15 years after the music genre spread from the streets of American cities to tough neighborhoods from Rio de Janeiro to Marseilles, gangsta rap has hit it big in Germany, where tamer rap has been popular for years. Riding on the coattails of American rappers like 50 Cent and Eminem, German gangsta rappers have made a strong showing on the charts - where Bushido's last two albums have made their debuts in the Top 6 - and shaken a society not used to hearing ghetto tales of death and revenge in its own language.

German parents and the news media have expressed shock at hardcore lyrics, which, they say, glorify a dangerous American ghetto fantasy that doesn't exist in Germany and shouldn't be encouraged.

In response, the Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons, an agency set up in 1954 in the sensitive era of post-Nazi reconstruction, has expanded its mandate to rap after spending most of the past two decades monitoring neo-Nazi music. Four rap titles have been added in the last year, joining seven others recently added to the more than 450 songs or albums the department has put on its list since the 1980's. Inclusion is more serious than an explicit lyrics sticker on a CD cover. It means that the offending album can't be advertised and stores can't sell it to anyone younger than 18.

"We put them on the list for many different reasons, but mainly because they discriminate against women, who are typically labeled prostitutes and hookers, and they advocate violence," said Elke Monssen-Engberding, director of the department.

The list features songs by radical right-wing bands like Aryan Duo and Reichsfront, offering song titles like "White and Full of Hate" and lyrics that glorify violence against immigrants. The fact that such bands are increasingly sharing space with people they spent most of their time railing against might seem strange. But to Ms. Monssen-Engberding, the threat from the two seemingly disparate groups is similar.

"The right-wing musicians are promoting an ideology, the rappers aren't promoting ideology; it's a type of dialogue," she said. "But it doesn't make it less dangerous."

In fact, there is some evidence that neo-Nazis relish the aggressive lyrics and image promoted by Berlin's gangsta rappers. Hannes Loh, an author of the book "Fear of a Kanak Planet: Hip-Hop Between World Culture and Nazi Rap," said some right-wing skinheads are abandoning jackboots and bomber jackets for the baggy pants and sneakers of the rap scene.

"We don't want to overexaggerate but it has become clear that it is moving in that direction," Mr. Loh said. "It's very contradictory, and very hard to understand."

Including for the rappers themselves. Bushido says skinheads cheered him at a concert he recently gave in the East German city of Chemnitz. After the show, they came up to congratulate him and ask for autographs.

"There is no trying to understand Nazis, but what are you going to do?" he said. "Are you going to ban them, put them in jail so that they hate you even more? If that guy is cool with me during the hour in which I'm giving my concert and respects the other people, then I think I've done a good job."

But it isn't the fact that he has some right-wing fans that has landed three of Bushido's five albums on the watch list. It's songs like "Gangbang" and "Dreckstück," in which women are portrayed as objects to abuse and humiliate, with lyrics like, "Just because you're a woman doesn't mean I won't beat you until you're blue."

His 2001 album "King of Kingz," which he produced in his mother's apartment, was put on the list in May. His most recent releases, "Electro Ghetto" and "Vom Bordstein bis zur Skyline" ("From the Pavement to the Skyline"), are also slated for listing.

"It's as dangerous to advocate violence against women as it is violence against immigrants," Ms. Monssen-Engberding said.

But that hasn't hurt Bushido's popularity among young people. "Electro Ghetto" made its debut at No. 6 last year on the German charts and is set to cross the 100,000 sales barrier needed in Germany to be certified gold. His most recent album made its first chart appearance at No. 3 and has already sold more than 50,000 copies, according to his agents at Universal Music.

Kaan Mueller, 16, who was attending a recent rap and dance open mike night at a community center in Kreuzberg, said he liked the music "because, sometimes, you need something aggressive and hard like that just to let out your feelings."

Around him, a multicultural mix of teenagers were cheering and whooping as group after group got onstage, some mimicking poses of their gangsta rap heroes as they rhymed unintelligible lyrics over a bad sound system. There were plenty of jerseys and baseball caps worn off center in imitation of American rap stars.

"I listen because I understand German hip-hop far better," said Mr. Mueller, a baseball cap tipped upwards from a face splashed with acne. "The Americans might do it better, but I don't know what they're saying."

The genre, though, is more popular with males than females. Monika Hetzer, 19, who helped organize the open mike night, said the new rappers were bad news.

"I think it's good that they put them on the list," she said. "I just got called a slut on my way in here by a little boy. Kids have gotten more and more aggressive. It's no surprise, given what you hear on the radio."

German rap has traditionally ceded ground to imports from across the Atlantic. Though some German hip-hop groups found success in the 1990's, German, unlike French and English, is not a language that accommodates the genre, say some artists.

The language features many combination words with an avalanche of syllables that don't rhyme well together, Bushido said. That impairs a rapper's ability to let loose a smooth and creative flow. That, combined with inferior production quality and beats, kept young people listening to rap imports, said Eric Remberg, the head of label Aggro Berlin, who prefers to go by the monicker Specter.

German rap's newfound success is partly a result of improved production quality and better lyrics, and partly a realization that Germany has its own problem neighborhoods, where failed integration and social hardship are part of the daily struggle, Specter said.

"I think Germany has reached the point that rap once was in the U.S.A., where it was attacked because people couldn't believe something like the gangsta life existed," said Specter, who since founding the label in the basement of a former brothel in 2001 has built it into one of the country's most notorious. "It was just ignored. People said. 'These conditions don't exist in our country.' "

Though Berlin might not have a Bedford-Stuyvesant or a South Central, he said, it has enough tough neighborhoods to provide material to the social misfits and immigrants who gathered in dark Berlin basements for freestyle battles in the late 1990's. A scene that started in the immigrant community in the 1980's quickly grew to include German youths from tough neighborhoods and children of mixed parentage.

Now that the songs they initially wrote to provoke their peers are reaching a larger audience and reaping criticism, rappers like Bushido are starting to tweak their style and tone it down. The new album he is recording in Austria is much more introspective, he said. In one song he portrays himself as an angel watching over a girl who has abusive parents. In another, he regrets missed chances with a girlfriend who has had an accident.

But other songs revert to the genre's typical form, with women getting much worse.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

what's fascinating is he's contradictory etc

gear (gear), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

"I listen because I understand German hip-hop far better," said Mr. Mueller, a baseball cap tipped upwards from a face splashed with acne. "The Americans might do it better, but I don't know what they're saying."

Heh.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

One wonders if the NYT learned any lessons from this fiasco:

Project Much?: The New York Times vs. Rammstein

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

some aggro berlin videos (left click on ::runterholen::, right click will get you 403 error)

fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

um michael the article doesn't claim that bushido, who is half-tunisian, is a nazi. just that 1. apparently some neo-nazis like his music, which he also talks about and 2. his music has come under attention from the same gov't agency that monitors neo-nazi music. it's not quite the same as the rammstein non-controversy.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

yeah i mean honestly this is what you get for listening to aggro berlin. if i'm not mistaken they're the die Sekte-affiliated label who are involved in that whole B-Tight "Neger in Mir" / A.I.D.S. thing i talked about on Global Hip-Hop

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

aggro berlin's main intention is to sell records through provocation
for myself most aggro berlin tracks are so ridiculous that i can only laugh my ass off (especially older stuff by mc basstard, taktloss etc)

sibsi (sibsi), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

White trash in listening to gangsta rap shockah, etc.

Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

trash in listening to gangsta rap shockah

myopic P.C. article only points out phenomenon in germany shockah

-rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

there are german-language rappers elsewhere?

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

i think rainbow's point is more like, misogyny exists in rap everywhere. the nazism seems like less of an issue really than it's being made out to be in the thread title. seems more like neo-nazis in .de are violent and thus appreciate the aggro image regardless of the fact that it may be coming from people they supposedly don't like (immigrants etc).

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

You're both right, I see little difference between music fans who are violent nazis and any other lumpen gangs with no coherent ideology. Contradiction shouldn't be surprising just because they're white and german. Tupac was a piece of shit too. But yeah actually this is about germany not about violent misogynistic rap in general so ignore me.

-rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

explain 'tupac was a piece of shit'??

3, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

I just hate gangsta rap. off topic, carry on

-rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

pac was not a gangsta rapper

3, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

Pac is a part of each and every one of us!

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

dude you kinda look like pac

3, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

but i mean, a title like "Germany's Rap Music Veers Toward The Violent" is a bit misleading considering that US rap music has already veered there. to me at least this seems more like a "oh shit, be scared of germany again" article than a legit commentary considering how the times has writers like k.sanneh who write encomia lauding rappers who write from jail awaiting trial for weapons charges

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

i dont think white german nazis are really the same as political prisoners like tupac

3, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

again, german rappers are not necessarily nazis
this is a bit different yeah?
"There is no trying to understand Nazis" says the rapper who's the focus of the article

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

nabisco don't look a damn thing like pac!

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

youve never seen him with his shirt off then

3, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

true, i've only dreamt it.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/1/1a/200px-2pac-diamond.jpeg
"Listening to Hope Chest I keep thinking that if Rob Buck were in some sort of critically-credible band he'd be considered one of the great guitar players of the 80s."

3, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

why is the NY Times allowed to write this sweeping generalization in the guise of (sub)cultural overview again?

kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:23 (twenty years ago)

i mean, a title like "Germany's Rap Music Veers Toward The Violent" is a bit misleading considering that US rap music has already veered there

german rap hasnt. except for the cologne scene (äi-tiem even had a real actual bank robber in the band) german hip hop in the 90s = harmless white middle class

fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

also skinheads at a rap concert dont mean shit because the concert was in eastern germany, and neo-nazi imagery is as common there as ironic t-shirts in williamsburg

fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

What are we gonna do now?!?: "Russian punk rock tends to be about teenage sexuality, drug use, leftist politics(!)".

Cunga (Cunga), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Wait, where's the "sweeping generalization"? Seems to me it's just a news report: here's what's going on, here's what people are saying about it, etc. Is there anything false or inaccurate in the story? (And yes, K. Sanneh likes a lot of gangsta and other rap, but he also called out Snoop Dogg on his bitch-slapping not long ago.)

(xxx-post)

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

xp zaffe: yeah i know that but like i don't find this particularly surprising or newsworthy. okay white middle class dominated german rap (with notable exceptions afrob, samy deluxe, etc who were in the game since practically like the fantastischen 4 / fettes brot days) until kool savas & eko fresh et al started to bring the turkish element in, purely in terms of a racial element this seems like a similar progression to what happened in the US except inverted (cf Eminem entering with more(?) blatantly homophobic/misogynistic lyrics) unless i'm very much mistaken?

xp gypsy: sure i know it's basically a news report but a: there seems to be this undertone like i said before of "worry about germany again" and b: i'm not sure why this is surprising or newsworthy to anyone. "german rap is finally catching up with american rap in terms of misogyny" oh shit. the nazi element barely enters into it except that these rappers are on the same shitlist that nazirock is, and a few nazis went to Bushido concerts. the first one is basically irrelevant given that the list is supposed to be "Media Harmful to Young Persons" which is not strictly or purely anti-Nazi, and the second one, well, there are distasteful individuals at any concert really (and yeah zaffe is right about the e germany thing)

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

My perception, based on the few months that I lived in Germany, was that German hip-hop is following the same trends as American hip-hop, except on a 10-year time delay. The German Jay-Z and Puff Daddy should be coming along in the next year or two.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

"Germany's Rap Music Veers Toward The Violent" is a bit misleading

also i didn't really mean 'misleading', i'm searching for the right word but basically what i mean is they could drop the "germany" and it would still be pretty much true. "punk rock veers toward leftist politics" indeed

German hip-hop is following the same trends as American hip-hop, except on a 10-year time delay
mindinrewind OTFM. which is why i feel it's not particularly newsworthy

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

um michael the article doesn't claim that bushido, who is half-tunisian, is a nazi

That really wasn't what I had in mind -- though it's not like anyone could tell one way or the other thanks to the brevity of my comment. I was thinking more along the lines of "well, at least they're not mistranslating German lyrics again."

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

xpost:

Well, it's newsworthy if you don't know anything about German hip-hop, which I don't. I thought it was interesting. The neo-nazi angle feels a little oversold, but you know, when it comes to Germany that's natural for people to fixate on. The story focuses more on violence in the lyrics in general and against women in particular, which is of course the same dynamic we've had in the U.S. about gangsta rap for years, but now it's happening somewhere different so that makes it kind of interesting. Just like it would be interesting if there were Iranian skate punks or whatever (which maybe there are, and if so I'd like to read about them).

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

gypsy:
okay fair enough. basically i agree with you, more or less, but definitely the neo-nazi angle is way oversold

nervous (cochere), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

until kool savas & eko fresh et al started to bring the turkish element in

and, first and foremost, azad (which reminds me - nix the 'white' in 'white middle class', i forgot about 3p)

fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 22:16 (twenty years ago)

Bushido's in jail in Austria right now for kicking the shit out of an Austrian fan after a concert. German speakers, go look it up.

A Guy in an Internet Cafe in Vienna, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

Vanilla Ice totally predicted this when he boasted of "steppin' so hard like a German Nazi."

mike a, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

>political prisoners like tupac

what the fuck ever

pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

>political prisoners like tupac
what the fuck ever

yeah i was gonna say that's a bit of a stretch.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

its trife

fe zaffe (fezaffe), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_(Rapper) has some info. It looks like he thought the guy had slashed his tires.

patita (patita), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)


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