help needed regarding; Satie, Messiaen, Arvo Part

but all tips on these artists are welcome!

Speaking of concept albums, when I first started listening to Part my mind was blown by Lorenzo Ghielmi's cd "Tintinnabulum: Organ Works by Arvo Part And The Music Of The 16th Century And The Sound Of Bells". Annum Per Annum and Pari Intervallo are awesome... I've heard that this is not the best recording of Part's organ works - the only other I've heard is on Kevin Bowyer's "Arbo Part - Music for Organ" - but the I find the setting and concept of Ghielmi's disc really beautiful.

My current favorite Part recording is Triodion, by Polyphony... "My Heart's In the Highlands" is a quite an incredible song, that manages to avoid all that I find horrible about contemporary songs.

I'd probably suggest avoid starting with the lengthy choral works - in particular his Passio. To me it is a brilliant, moving, understated and meditative piece - other people have found it a real bore.

In summation - get Tabula Rasa!

p.s. I think those links are faulty...

definitely second turangalila's messiaen recommendations.

if you're into the dementia/madness side of things, I'd recommend Messiaen's "Et Expecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum" as well.

Messiaen POV / POX

For Satie you can't go wrong with the original Aldo Ciccolini recordings compiled on the 2 CD box 'Piano Works' (avoid the 5 CD box; later recordings, more obscure track sequencing).

Alan Marks' 70 minute recording of Satie's "Vexations" was reissued this year... still nothing else in the world like that piece.

If you can find the France Clidat 3 CD Satie set, get it.

Don't know Part much, need to hear more. I've got "Misere" and that's it.

..."New age", however...

it's impossible / expensive to get these days, though, and you can usually find the equally great Ciccolini 2 disc for about $10-15

True, the Ciccolini 2-disc set is nice, and any decent recording of orchestral pieces like "Parade" can be loads of fun

as for Messaien, I would begin with the "quartet for the end of time," as mentioned upthread - one of the most beautiful pieces of the 20th century, hands down, imho. the Turangalila Symphony is great as well, though, love that, it's a stone cold classic

there is also a nice disc with early serialized (basically) messaien piano pieces alongside xenakis which is a very nice disc to have, it's all piano, very illuminating from the historical point of view

if i were you i would skip arvo part completely

Part, I would go with Miserere.

Messiaen, I'm just getting into but I really love Et Expecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum.

Seconded, this is where I started. The Cantus for Benjamin Britten in particular is great - actually everything on this album is great.

i think i prefer originals. but maybe i'm dead wrong

i just like my albums authentic, i don't wanna spend too much cash though ;)

>anyone get the Satie Vexations CD?

it needs a pfm review! a lot of people would love this.

I made the mistake of trying to sleep to it once, a long time ago. You don't want to be unconscious / susceptible while those chords are cycling.

I want to cry now. Please don't skip him, I also recommend Fratres and Tabula Rasa.

old thread - messaien:c/d s/d

sleeve - this kind of animosity seems to be pretty much the attitude that many listeners to 'serious' contemporary music take to anyone that embraces something as out-moded as tonality. A question of personal taste in the end, I suppose.

Lets not forget that Satie ws, at one time, not so respected as he might be nowdays.

So, I urge you not to think of performances involving the composer as more "authentic"; certainly few (if any) composers would privilege their own renditions above truly great performances, though sometimes there'll be a great composer-conductor (Bernstein; Mahler according to reports, though we don't have any recorded evidence of it).

If Messiaen floats your boat, you might try the less-radical but to me infinitely richer work of Alban Berg, who pioneered serialist/"atonal" (I am suspicious of the word) composition. His Violin Concerto is unbelievably beautiful.

As for Satie, I love his delicate playing, I love Gnossiennes, any tips on that one?

If that version of Vingt Regards passes your muster, try Austbø's version of Messaien's Catalogue d'oiseaux, also on Naxos.

I'm still learning to listen to diff versions of the same piece - I guess it won't be more "authentic" if perf by someone else, but in the case of messiaen perf his own organ pieces I can't quite imagine anyone else bettering them.

Here is the Berg thread. I shd revive that someday cuz I've done quite a lot of listening to 'Lulu'. 'Violin concerto' is gd and if you pick up the disc on DG you get rihm's 'time chant'.

stravinsky being an obv example here. not the best conductor, even of his own pieces

>Berg's Violin Concerto is unbelievably beautiful.

yes, it is, i agree in toto. was for me a breakthrough piece for 'getting' 20th century classical when i was like 14 or something, along with ives and varese et al

well, it doesn't seem honestly descriptive to me! I mean, obviously by now it means "music by Schoenberg & Webern & Berg," but Schoenberg is said to have preferred "pantonal" - which, while it'd sound precious to actually use such a term in conversation now, does seem a lot more useful. "atonal"? really, there are no tones? or, rather "adheres to traditional scales & modes" = "tonal"? I don't think it's a good way of thinking about the music in question.

Messiaen's own recordings of his organ works are interesting, but the sound on them is not great and the organ at Sainte-Trinite was in pretty bad shape when he made them. Olivier Latry's recordings from Notre-Dame are excellent. Regis records also reissued a set of organ works played by Jennifer Bate - I haven't heard them but they are reputed to be excellent (and again, super-cheap).

One thing I've found is that Messiaen seemed to give his approval to anyone who played his works well. He gave his personal endorsement to both Pierre-Laurent Aimard and Peter Hill, but the recordings couldn't be much different.

I haven't listened as much to the non-keyboard works, but all of the Myung Whun-Chung recordings I've heard on Deutsche Grammophon have been excellent, especially the late work Eclairs sur l'Au-dela

Part: One more vote for Tabula Rasa and I'll also second Te Deum, which I think is the best recording of his choral work.

Satie: For those who like the repetitive/slow works, listen to the Messe des Pauvres for organ and chorus. One of my favourite Satie pieces, but it doesn't get much attention - maybe because it's not for piano. YSI of organ-only version: http://s15.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=393W9TYBID0OJ27M23UZ52TC7R

Yes I agree on "pantonal": it expands the palette, and, of the three, it will especially apply to Berg.

Yes I agree on "pantonal"

In addition to "pantonal", Schönberg has also been said to prefer "atonical" (ie without a tonic centre) to "atonal", because -- to very loosely paraphrase the man himself -- "it still has tones, duh".

He still notably used it himself in one of his "Three Satires" op. 28 though; it starts "Tonal -- oder atonal?", with the word "tonal" obv set to a C major triad... :-D

http://www.stretta-music.com/images/6/1/8/275816-01_zoom.jpg