The Fall Vs. Wire

Pink Flag is full of gorgeos mini-epics, and is breathtaking in a very visceral sense. But beyond that album, Wire stopped impressing me, or really having much impact. They changed, and while that's enviable, the results have never been as fascinating as the Fall's carreer path.

That almos sounds like a great endorsement!

The Frenz Experiment
Extricate
Shift Work
Code: Selfish
The Infotainment Scan
Cerebral Caustic

Plus comps, esp. Palace of Swords Reversed

i love the fall and wire pretty equally but i think wire was the more interesting musically. subtract m.e.s. from the fall and with the exception of some of the early stuff, you'd have a just-ok sorta-punky-but-not-quite band.

No way. Palace of Swords Reversed is like a ramshackle Can. Wire was like an OK kinda psychedelic art punk band w/ not much personality.

xpost;
insane vs. indie rock: WHERE DO U DRAW TEH LINE?

i still do think it's quite insane to think of wire as "bland" or "slightly mediocre" though. they were clearly doing some very ahead-of-their-time stuff (tho that's not surprising so much because when you look at 'em closely, they're really more of an art-school band than a punk band anyway). comparing them to gang of four (if only by lumping them in together as "slightly mediocre classics") seems kinda weird to me. as you'd rather champion the more "unknown" or "underdoggish" bands, or something (which seems a really indie trait, of course).

xpost - gang of four = ok early singles, not much more there
the smiths = so much to answer for, really. blugh.

xxpost - seen both wire and the fall live, tho obv. not back in the day (i was, like, three).

ian, smoke some major buddage and crank chairs missing and 154. they are heavenly.

uh, why can't both the red krayola and wire stand on their own merits? such a strange comparison.

smoke some major buddage and crank chairs missing and 154. they are heavenly.

This is wisdom.

gang of four is the britishes postpunx that i don't understand the love for IN THE SLIGHTEST

I hate when people do this, but I have to say that it would help your understanding a lot if you had seen them "back in the day." If you weren't around then, I guess I can understand your bewilderment.

I think some people would disagree with you, but how do you see it? Is 154 a psychedelic record at all?

Good to see Noodle has revived the Swans lyrics again.

Very awesome thing for them to do.

their "incense and peppermints" slays too.

"i should download 254 & chairs missing, i guess. maybe i will like them now!"

you should! those two are really chilly and less visceral than Pink Flag, but they really grow on you.

Geir, you should hear the early nineties Fall albums - Shift Work and Code: Selfish.

Your listening to Wire would confirm that your decision is wrong, wrong, wrong...

I've decided "German Shepherds" is the point at which I decide Wire are in fact, better than the Fall in the end, god bless MES notwithstanding.

Both are/were excellent bands. Personally, I have more use, on a day-to-day basis, for The Fall. But I gotta concede that they never really attempted to push their art like Wire did, to reshape the basic elements into something wholly new. Instead, like the Ramones, The Fall made an noble (if maddening) art of treading water for decades at a time. Whether you see this as formalist dedication to principles or proof of a limited range is up to you...

But when push comes to shove, (Brix's contributions notwithstanding), the Fall never had Wire's pop smarts. Both bands kinda pretended they weren't or didn't wanna be pop bands, but deep down that's exactly what they were/are.

Like I said, I'll take the Fall. Funnier. Chewier. Greater pile of indecipherable rubble to paw through. But that's just me. And I acknowledge that nothing in their entire catalog packs the timeless, transcendental wallop of "Map Reference Whateverthefuck".

Then again, nothing Wire ever did rocks my ass like "Totally Wired"...

P.S. - While there are certainly elements in Wire's sound that might be interpreted as "psychedelic", discussing them primarily in terms of bands like Can or the Red Krayola is just fuggin' crazy. Wire were a (post) punky, art-damaged pop band. That's it.

could easily be made valid by swapping the names "Fall" and "Wire".

Actually, that goes for all of the posts above.

Both had pop smarts. Both pushed the envelope. Both had their "treading water" albums.

AND I REFUSE TO PICK ONE OVER THE OTHER!

When discussing Wire, I'm referring, of course, to the band that made "Pink Flag", "Chairs Missing", and "154"...

And then broke up, never to be heard from again.

I'm comparing the first three Wire albums to the Fall's entire career. 'Cuz if we have to factor in "The Ideal Copy" and what came after, Wire don't stand a fuggin' chance.

The same four people.

(That's not the Fall, that is)

Oh piffle. Songs on Slates like "Fit and Working Again" and "Prole Art Threat" are more wonderful reshaping of basic elements than anything I've ever heard by Wire. Or "Spectre vs. Rector." Or "Iceland." Or...

"The Fall made an noble (if maddening) art of treading water for decades at a time."

No way, hoser. You tellin' me they treaded water for the decade between Live at the Witch Trials and I Am Kurious, Oranj? That's quite a lot of ground covered. Or the decade between The Frenz Experiment and The Light User Syndrome?

I don't think anyone was doing that. The discussion was about the degree to which Chairs Missing is psychedelic. Someone could probably identify some particular elements on that record that have made people describe it this way a lot over the years. The only reference to Can on this thread was in regard to the Fall. (The Fall were influenced by Can and you can particularly hear the influence of Malcolm Mooney era Can on some of their early '80s records like Slates.)

I can't even imagine being able to compare Map Ref and the Fall's output though.

(*among the more forward-thinking philosophes in the better salons)

I love both bands and welcome anyone who wants to argue this point with me. I'm trying to think of a Fall track I would consider "beautiful". I guess there are a few on Shiftwork ("Rose", "Edinburgh Man"), but not as beautiful as Wire had the capability of being.

And there's just a sense of humanity to these songs I haven't heard in Wire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksO6rszABnM&search=fall%20%22bill%20is%20dead%22

Oh, and a sense of humanity in Wire songs? Try "a serious of snakes" for a kickoff...

"Paintwork" is my most beautiful Fall song, but there's something to be said for tons of stuff: parts 1 and 2 of "Winter", "Iceland/Island", "Oh! Brother", "Wings", "Petty Thief Lout", at least half of Bend Sinister especially "Gross Chapel - British Grenadiers", a bunch of stuff mentioned above.

Oh god, this is an impossible choice. For consistency - Wire, for volume of great material - Fall. There are times when I'll go on a binge of one or the other. Wire's high points this decade equal The Fall's but The Fall has simply had MORE of them.

At the moment Last.fm says:

Wire 213
The Fall 200

The Fall