Talulah Gosh: Classic or Dud?

Oh, but hang on, they're on Sarah, so of course it's some kind of 'pop-art statement', right?

Only they were good.

Talulah Gosh seemed to become the critical symbol for a particular kind of indie pop which it remains fashionable to write off blithely. I don't know what "content to be crap" means, unless you are talking about technical proficiency, which as an advocate of the Slits and the Raincoats I know you're not. Perhaps you mean "just would not become a rock band no matter how many times the NME told them to".

KNNNEEEEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!!!

GGGGRRRRRRRR!!!!

KKKEEEERRRRRRAAAAAAANG!!!

POOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

TAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLUUUULLLAAAAAHH!!!

GGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSHH!

I thought that their idea, to take the Ramones buzzsaw sound but fuse it with a Shirelles pop sensibility was a good one, and actually rather original. I also thought that taking a Ramonesy pop structure and replacing the dumb machismo with (what was at the time) quite a confrontational smart kid image was an interesting and ambitious one. That Talulah Gosh didn't manage to pull it off much of the time was a shame.

By "return to rock" I meant the emergence in the early eighties of broadly independent bands who fitted much more comfortably into the history of proper rock music than their predecessors had. I'm talking about acts like the ones mentioned above and U2 and Wah!, all of whom (except U2) had their moments.

I wasn't getting at your taste, C. (our tastes overlap significantly, at least in the area of punk and post-punk). What I was trying to suggest was that the terms of your critique of Talulah Gosh could be more relevant to other bands I know you like. I was wondering whether there might be other ways of thinking about TG which might throw more light on why you don't like them, especially when your initial comments above were fairly familiar?

For example, what did you mean by "content to be crap"?

now, where did I put those hairslides?

Chris b

PS, "somewhere in China"??? Some of the worst lyrics I've ever heard. I do like the song though in a perverse way.

http://www.twee.net/pix/talulah.jpg

For all their fey, cutiness this looks like a somewhat confrotational stance from a 2005 view point.

'maybe if it all dissapears it doesn't matter'

There's probably another thread somewhere for Heavenly / Marine Research / Tender Trap and that should be your next step...

I have difficulty understanding the concept of someone who likes Tiger Trap and Heavenly not liking them. Maybe you should give them another listen Roxy? The K records comp is easily found on Slsk I should think.

If you don't like cutesy indie jangle then steer well clear though!

I listen to Talulah Gosh a lot - I go back to them again and again, for they are on the other side of my old Shop Assistants tape.

I still feel that that band's records stand up better, in the way I've tried to describe on the other thread. But I guess TG were doing something different, actually: more up-front and clear-voiced, less fuzzy. Despite listening again and again, I can still be amazed at how wilfully kiddy they are: 'but I know that you won't, cos you're selfish that *way*' (end), or the lyric of 'Just A Dream' about castles in the air ... but there is perhaps a layer of musical richness on these records too: the slow rhythm of 'Just A Dream', never breaking out of its restraint; the blazing beginning of their title track.

worth seeing this thread again to see Tim H. say: "the Bunnymen, for example, or the Sound, both of whom were about as daring and risky as a Cornish pastie".

+ it remains true, as it was 7 years ago when we first had this debate, that I really ought to do something with my cover of 'Steaming Train', which I have never even played since then, for goodness' sake.

from Damaged Goods:

TALULAH GOSH - UNRELEASED EP - DUE OUT FOR RECORD STORE DAY 2011

This is the original demo’s the band did in early 1986 with Razorcut Gregory Webster at the controls. The four tracks are ‘Steaming Train’, ‘I Told You So’, ‘Mmm Mmm He’s So Dreamy’ & ‘Sunny Inside’. It’s a 7” and it’s limited to 500 copies…!
Also in the pipeline is a new compilation called ‘Grrrr’ which will be out in the summer and have everything that appeared on the 1993 comp ‘Backwash plus lots more.

Yeah I saw that - but I gather it's all on the Grrr comp so I'm not bothered about trying to get a copy. Maybe I should sell my Backwash CD now is it worth anything? ;)

Strangely seems their original releases are really cheap on vinyl, you can get the 53rd & 3rd 7"s for 99p on Ebay.

some of the prettiest Talulah-gosh-related material came out of The Carousel, Elizabeth Price's collaboration with Gregory Razorcut. apparently Elizabeth quit TG in a huff because she thought they were silly and juvenile, so her Carousel material is super-earnest, vaguely religious twee folk that sounds like the Singing Nun backed by Roger Mcguinn's jangly 12-string. ...ok, that's a terrible description, but some of the overdubbed vocal harmonies are just mesmerizing despite the low-fi production:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpfUSx8R50s

the carousel were beautiful, i heard them before i heard any TG or heavenly thanx to the 45 summershine put out. i've never heard anything quite like it.

I think part of the reason the Carousel stuff stands out is that it was so rare 20 years ago for indie-pop/indie-folk acts to draw inspiration from pastoral (and, I hate to say it: twee) folk singers like Shirley Collins and Joan Baez, although it seems like such an obvious thing to do in retrospect. but actually, more than anything the Carousel remind me of Virginia Astley's early recordings with and without her group The Ravishing Beauties.

Red Chair Fadeaway (another Razorcuts side project) also fit in here somewhere. their lead singer and Elizabeth even sang guest vocals on each other's records.

need to hear more RCF. tim vass is v underrated out their in twee land in comparison to GW

there

their first two 12-inches and their album Curious and Curiouser are definitely worth seeking out. the psych guitar solos and flange effects can get a little cheesy, but there's plenty of dreamy, nostalgic folk-rock to enjoy. "Grasshopper" is the song Elizabeth Price appears on; "My Brother's Room" (the first track on Curiouser) is the best thing they ever did and a perfect room with many doors.

favourite. they have a song named after my favourite album (escalator over the hill) and about my favourite thing on TV (testcard girl) and talulah gosh is like the girl who i daydream about who i always wish i was. there is nothing to stop me loving this band :)

Excerpts from the *Demos* EP are on Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Demos-EP/dp/B004RE2Z3K/

"Mmm Mmm He's So Dreamy" is the song later named "Just a Dream"

Those clips sound like garbage to my ears. Holy shit, who would want that?

What ever happened to the "Grrr" comp?

probably somewhere in the release schedule behind a bunch of billy childish and piney gir

I can't imagine what could still remain unreleased at this point. The last compilation pretty much scraped the barrel (still 95% awesome of course). I don't think there's going to be any surprises forthcoming.

Elizabeth Price on the Turner Prize 2012 shortlist
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/turner-prize/9238258/Turner-Prize-2012-Spartacus-on-the-shortlist.html

^^^ She won, btw.

Reformation supporting Helen Love. Happening as we speak (I am not there).

Latest compilation is coming out on Nov 4. Backwash plus the four demo tracks mentioned upthread.

That's Marigold, O.B.E. to you

Whozat?

Among those awarded an OBE in 2014 are Andrew Baxendine of the Ministry of Defence; deputy director of the Department for Transport's rail development group Colette Carroll; Paul Geoffrey Crowther, deputy chief constable at the British Transport Police; and Amelia Fletcher, former chief economist at the Office of Fair Trading.

Ah, saw that when I read down. I was just thinking at lunchtime, what possesses someone to accept an Honour from the Queen?

Jist wait tae ah see her again, ah'll gie her a piece ah mah mind. Holl' Amelia, 'mere! A fuckin' OBE, whit ye playin' at? Whit aboot fuckin' indie rock, doll? Did Stephen Pastel die (oan his arse) in vain? FTQ, ya bass!

(Boaby Gillespie sends his congrats)

a lot of negative appraisals from ilx's salad days.

most interesting post to me was the person who said that the concept of talulah gosh - taking the pop punk of the ramones and replacing the "machismo" with the opposite of that (hate the word twee) -- but that they didn't pull it off well. i think their best songs are really catchy and well crafted. i haven't really listened to too many of their lyrics -- assume there are a lot of clever but sometimes annoying bon mots -- but i love the lyrics to "i can't get no satisfaction (thank god)". "some of my best friends are bastards like you" is great.

anyway, should i buy an anorak? does anyone in america use that word?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFJ9tQTvno8

i like reading about this era of music in the uk, the background the "indie pop" bands were supposedly reacting against. it's always made to seem like most people in bands were always biting the tops off glass bottles and kicking sand in each other's eyes and bands like talulah gosh were off in a corner rolling their eyes.

I was there during this era of music and the Pastels have a lot to answer for, but at least they were first... well, not really, Orange Juice were.

a lot of negative appraisals from ilx's salad days.

... and thoroughly deserved imo. I still can't get over the fact that she accepted an OBE and that (14 years ago!) Tim accused the Ramones of 'dumb machismo', Joey Ramone??!??!