this (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpMGlxY3AxBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwNvZQ--?slug=insidedishmarlinscouldsw&prov=tsn&type=lgns) has some people talking. but it doesn't make much sense: why would the marlins give up "elite player"-value prospects for a reliever - and for all we know not even a good one at that? perhaps the yankees are to ship out a prospect or two as well. and is there or is there not a limit as to how much money can be included in trade?
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 7 June 2004 05:18 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 7 June 2004 05:20 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 7 June 2004 06:11 (twenty years ago) link
Seriously - I have no idea how bad their BP is (outside of Armando, who has been anything BUT bad).
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:56 (twenty years ago) link
― earlnash, Monday, 7 June 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:32 (twenty years ago) link
----Trade talks with Mets
The Astros are in discussions with the Mets about a trade that would send right fielder Richard Hidalgo, who lost his starting spot in May, to New York for reliever David Weathers, industry sources say.
Weathers, 34, has a 5-3 record with a 4.28 ERA.
Weathers, a 14-year veteran, is earning $3,93 million this season. Hidalgo, who has been on the trading block for two years, is earning $12 million this year.
Hidalgo, 28, would be owed a $2 million buyout if his $15 million option is not picked up for next season.
Weathers has given up 41 hits and 19 runs over 34 innings in 32 games.
Hidalgo has slumped to a .256 average with four home runs and 30 RBIs.
― mattbot (mattbot), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:52 (twenty years ago) link
I've heard they're shopping Hidalgo because he doesn't get along with Jimy. Certainly it's not because Orlando Palmeiro gives them more in RF.
― mattbot (mattbot), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:57 (twenty years ago) link
Palmiero wouldn't be Hidalgo's replacement, anyway. Jason Lane would get the majority of the playing time there. Lane has been hitting well the last week or so, but really hadn't gotten any consistent ABs before that. Hidalgo didn't really lose his starting spot until he strained his neck making a game-saving catch in Milwaukee this past weekend. Officially, he's been sitting because of the injury.
The Astros inability to hit with runners on base has gone from frustrating to surreal to comical.
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link
Also - if the Astros really think David Weathers will "help" the bullpen, I'm not sure that Hidalgo's the one that should be leaving Houston.
I guess Hidalgo's lackluster start (similar to what he offered 2 years ago) lead RH into Jimy's doghouse. If this trade happens, I really hope Jimy gives Jason Lane the full time job & leaves Orlando Palmeiro ON THE BENCH.
Boldbury you x-posting phreak.
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:42 (twenty years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:48 (twenty years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:59 (twenty years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 17 June 2004 15:10 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 June 2004 15:29 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:50 (twenty years ago) link
I guess I understand the Astros need for middle relief, but Weathers has been just short of awful this year, hasn't he? I know Howe has used him pretty often. Pardon the NBA draft term, but Hidalgo still strikes me as a player with a fair amount of upside. PECOTA seems to agree, 13% breakout, 48% improve, 16.1% collapse (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/hidalri01.php#forecast).
I dunno, the whole thing smells a little bit to me like the Yankees dumping of Mondesi to the D-backs last year.
― mattbot (mattbot), Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:36 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:07 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:11 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:15 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:33 (twenty years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:33 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:34 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:36 (twenty years ago) link
― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:40 (twenty years ago) link
• Kansas City Royals General Manager Allard Baird and former Royals scouting director Art Stewart are in Sacramento this week to watch the Triple-A Rivercats, fueling speculation the A's might be in the Carlos Beltran trading sweepstakes.
The Royals almost certainly will deal the center fielder, who will be a free agent after this season, before the July 31 trade deadline and A's G.M. Billy Beane and Baird are established trading partners.
Two A's officials on Wednesday said no deal is imminent but acknowledged the teams keep in semi-regular contact.
Baird said recently that he is seeking a young third baseman and a catcher for Beltran, and the A's are deep in both positions. Third baseman Mark Teahen (recently promoted to Sacramento after batting .335 with six homers and 36 RBIs at Double-A Midland) is one of the A's top prospects and catchers John Baker and Casey Myers are promising hitters.
the royals also had a scout at a AA game, with the yankees top 2B prospect (presumably) being showcased at third. but it looks like we've got a clear-cut favorite at the moment.
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 18 June 2004 03:04 (twenty years ago) link
"[Mets' GM Jim] Duquette was dialing up Seattle GM Bill Bavasi yesterday for news on Freddy Garcia, a No. 2 starter. Duquette was told Garcia isn't going anywhere for a week. But he'll be ready come next Thursday to try to beat five other teams: the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, White Sox and Angels."
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 June 2004 12:41 (twenty years ago) link
yes, i finally staretd reading moneyball.
― j.q. higgins, Friday, 18 June 2004 13:08 (twenty years ago) link
SWITCHEROO: Seattle scouts have been following the Yankees' Double-A team in Trenton recently and may have asked the Yankees to move prospect Robinson Cano from second base to third to see how he'd handle the position with an eye toward a potential trade. The Yankees are interested in Seattle righthander Freddy Garcia, who is 3-6 with a 3.23 ERA this season.
Asked if Cano had been switched for a showcase, a Yankee official would not be specific but said, "Somebody wanted to see him play third, yes. You can read into that."
The Royals also have had scouts watching Trenton and they have professed a desire to get a third baseman in return for center fielder Carlos Beltran. The Royals also reportedly want a catcher, and the Yanks' top prospect, Dioner Navarro, is the catcher at Trenton.
Cano, a 21-year-old who is batting .297 with six homers and 38RBI at Trenton, played third earlier this week, the first time he's played there as a professional.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/204073p-176130c.html
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 19 June 2004 02:52 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 19 June 2004 03:00 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 19 June 2004 03:21 (twenty years ago) link
the yankees could easily beat any sox offer, but they want to overpay for garcia instead...although we'll probably get a story after the trade is completed that the yankees had an offer on the table worth twice as much that baird rejected, or that baird asked for them to break the farm for him. it'd fit with every major bosox trade the past 2-3 years.
but i'm hoping beane will step in here.
― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 20 June 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 20 June 2004 16:39 (twenty years ago) link
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...l=cs-columnists
Center of attention: Beltran to Astros?
Keep an eye on the Houston Astros in the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes.
With Roger Clemens turning in a vintage performance at 41, the Astros know they must do everything possible to make the playoffs. General manager Gerry Hunsicker isn't inclined to place the blame for the 1-6 stretch against Milwaukee and the Cubs on manager Jimy Williams, and the only other way to jump-start the fifth-place team is to make a major transaction.
Given the troubles that Craig Biggio has had playing center field, especially in the quirky pastures of Minute Maid Park, a five-tool player like Beltran makes all the sense in the world.
Poor fielding, especially the limited range that the Astros have at virtually every position except shortstop, is the most telling flaw of a team where the sum doesn't seem to equal the parts. Beltran not only would be a godsend for Houston pitchers, but his acquisition would send a huge statement in the National League Central.
The trade of Richard Hidalgo to the New York Mets opened right field for 27-year-old Jason Lane, a prodigious run producer in the minor leagues. But with Beltran aboard, Lane could share time in left with Biggio, with Lance Berkman moving to right.
Biggio, who is waiting to see if the Astros pick up his option for 2005, also could give second baseman Jeff Kent and maybe even first baseman Jeff Bagwell some needed rest. But owner Drayton McLane will be careful in his handling of Biggio, who entered the weekend hitting .302 with eight homers and 28 runs batted in.
With two catching prospects in John Buck and Hector Gimenez and infield prospects in Chris Burke and Tommy Whiteman, the Astros are among the teams that can meet Kansas City GM Allard Baird's asking price, which is a catcher and a third baseman.
According to sources, the only talks between the Astros and Royals have been about reliever Jason Grimsley. But Beltran is very much on the minds of the Houston front office.
This is the time to make a grab for Beltran, not July 31. A team like Houston could have him for six weeks, then put him on the market again before the trade deadline if he hasn't brought a large return.
― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 21 June 2004 14:53 (twenty years ago) link
uh... who did they just trade?
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 21 June 2004 15:14 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 21 June 2004 15:15 (twenty years ago) link
Whahey?
Gerry Hunsicker should be very inclined to blame Jimy Williams for the team's woes.
Boldbury (or whoever knows their stuff re: the Astros) - was Berkman really THAT bad out there in CF?
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 21 June 2004 15:21 (twenty years ago) link
The answer to that question is a resounding NO. He's the only Astro centerfielder to ever go up on the hill to make a catch. Even after seeing him out there for a year, media folks and Astro fans alike fall prey to the misconception that he's a big galoot just because of his body type. Granted he's probably lost a step since that year, but the guy is just a terrific athlete.
― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 21 June 2004 15:40 (twenty years ago) link
I retract my previous statement re: inclination - Gerry Hunsicker should be very inclined to blame his own damn self for the Astros' woes.
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:20 (twenty years ago) link
Personally, when the Kent deal came through, my initial thought was that Bidge would move to LF, but I think it's a wash either way.
― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:56 (twenty years ago) link
― j.q. higgins, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:33 (twenty years ago) link
uh, yes.
― j.q. higgins, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:42 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:50 (twenty years ago) link
the new gms are supposed to be pitching guys and they gave up ligtenberg for dejean, reacquired fat sidney when they could have gotten kenny rogers for cheap (er) or any other number of reclamation projects that have gone well this year.
not to mention the signings of omar daal and helling last year which i'm still angry about.
― j.q. higgins, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 17:02 (twenty years ago) link
I'd take that.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2643540
Astros pursuing Royals' BeltranBy BRIAN McTAGGARTCopyright 2004 Houston ChronicleRESOURCES
The Astros are one of a handful of teams in the running to obtain Kansas City Royals center fielder Carlos Beltran through a three-team trade, sources have said.
According to sources, the Astros have explored the possibility of acquiring Beltran from the Royals and shipping closer Octavio Dotel to the Oakland A's, who would send prospects to Kansas City.
Beltran, 27, is a switch hitter who is batting .280 with 14 home runs and 50 RBIs and 14 stolen bases. He hit .307 last year with 26 home runs and 100 RBIs and was the AL Rookie of the Year in 1999.
"I'm not going to comment on specific trade discussions," Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker said. "There are a lot of conversations going on these days."
The Royals are in last place in the American League Central at 27-40 and are prepared clean house. They sent reliever Jason Grimsley to the Orioles for minor league pitcher Denny Bautista on Monday.
Oakland general manager Billy Beane has expressed interest in bolstering his bullpen before the July 31 trading deadline. The A's have a bevy of top prospects in the minor leagues.
― boldbury (boldbury), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 17:09 (twenty years ago) link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1849462
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 July 2004 21:46 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 30 July 2004 21:47 (twenty years ago) link
Expanding on that Marlins comment a little bit...
I guess the AA prospect is some pretty highly regarded pitcher in the Marlins system, Bill Murphy. I can't really speak to the foolishness of letting him go since I've never heard of him.
But the Marlins just downgraded their 1B not just for this year, but most likely long term. How many 1Bs with an 880 OPS making 300k/yr will they find? Conine gives up about 150 points of OPS to Choi. Encarnacion gives up another 30 points of OPS to replace Conine!
Brad Penny's loss hurts and I'm not sure who they think they'll replace him with. Darren Oliver? Marlin please. Didn't they let Encarnacion go for a reason last year? Why do they want him back?
They shore up behind the plate to be sure, but I think they just blew up their team to do so and may have hurt themselves in the long term too.
― mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 30 July 2004 21:49 (twenty years ago) link
Encarnacion for Larry Walker has been officially rumored during the Marlins game.
― mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 30 July 2004 22:40 (twenty years ago) link
benson trade, way good for metszambrano trade, way good for d-raysmonster deal, way good for dodgers
xpost but wait there's more, eh? i read something awhile ago about arizona being worked in and (randy) johnson possibly going to the dodgers.
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 30 July 2004 22:43 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 30 July 2004 22:46 (twenty years ago) link
― The Dreaded Rear Admiral (Leee), Friday, 30 July 2004 23:14 (twenty years ago) link
― mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 30 July 2004 23:16 (twenty years ago) link
do the dodgers really have the juice to pick up all these dudes?
― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Saturday, 31 July 2004 00:36 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 31 July 2004 01:58 (twenty years ago) link
I guess they figure that with Pavano, Beckett, Willis, Burnette and go fish they can get the job done. Beckett just came off the DL. Other than Benitez, their bullpen has really struggled and they have lost a bunch of close games. Mota hasn't been lights out like last year, but he is still very good.
What will be interesting to see is how effective Gagne is without Mota in front of him. Mota pitched nearly as well as Gagne last year in the setup role.
Finley is a free agent after the end of the season, so they might be getting him as a rental. I've read that the D-Backs didn't want to trade him to San Diego, as they hope to maybe resign him perhaps for next season if they can trade him off before the deadline.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 31 July 2004 02:03 (twenty years ago) link
Ahem....Darren Oliver is an Astro.
― boldbury (boldbury), Saturday, 31 July 2004 02:44 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 03:28 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 03:33 (twenty years ago) link
Seriously, why can't I be a GM?
― mattbot (mattbot), Saturday, 31 July 2004 03:34 (twenty years ago) link
penny would've been gone after next year, but still. i also had no idea encarnacion had been as horrible (this year and in the past) as he has. the dodgers were probably happy to dump him. i don't know what lo duca's contract situation is, but he hasn't historically held up well in the second half, and is getting old. choi, on the other hand, was a definite long-term option and mashes RHP.
i've gotta think the dodgers won this one in a bad way.
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 03:46 (twenty years ago) link
Are you that sold on Choi? The fact that this top prospect has now been dumped twice in a year might say something. Who knows about the AA guy, he could be a hall of famer in waiting or do nothing.
Unless the Marlins get on a streak like last year, which I doubt will happen, I don't think they can catch Atlanta which is streaking away (lead is up to 4.5).
The Dodgers are probably going to make the playoffs, but are Penny and Choi enough to push them over the top? I don't know about that one, unless they spin Penny for the big unit. They need another big bat to go with Beltre. Choi isn't a wiz with the glove either, he has eight errors, more than any other Dodger.
It just seems to me that the Marlins addressed more what they needed than LA, which got another #3 starter and fair to middling bat like the bunch they already have.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 31 July 2004 13:39 (twenty years ago) link
He may turn out to be the next Mark Bellhorn with a little more pop, I dunno. But maybe in LA he'll finally get a chance to be the everyday first basemen.
Unless the Marlins get on a streak like last year, which I doubt will happen, I don't think they can catch Atlanta which is streaking away...
Yeah, see this is why I think the deal makes even less sense. They're going all in in a division they should be able to win with the talent they have, or at least without having to resort to a blockbuster trade. I think the Mets and Marlins traded away enough young talent yesterday to ensure that the Braves will compete for the NL East title for the next jillion years.
― mattbot (mattbot), Saturday, 31 July 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 31 July 2004 15:39 (twenty years ago) link
"Fair to middling bat" (in 218 ABs) = .270 / .388 / .495 @ 25 years of age w/ an isolated power (SLG - BA, a show of strungth) of .225
Dodger first baseboys this year:Shawn Green (373 ABs) = .260 / .340 / .429 (ISO = .169)Robin Ventura (97 ABs) = .216 / .315 / .289 (ISO = .073)Olmedo Saenz = (72 ABs) = .236 / .329 / .458 (ISO = .222)
My chest kinda hurts, so I don't wanna see the sort of laughable efforts Choi's replacements (WIL CORDERO AND DAMION EASLEY?) (and even / ESPECIALLY Jeff Conine) have put forth in his stead.
And if the guy actually had more than 31 ABs against lefties (w/ only 6 hits), people might see the sort of pop that lead him to slap around the PCL lefites to the tune of a .550 slugging (as opposed to his .501 SLG against the guys he's supposed to hit).
Don't even trot out the counting stats as a sign of his weakness, given he's been hitting behind both Lowell & Cabrera (and Jeffy Conine - doi?), and if you project him to a full season's production, he's got 30ish homers and over 80 RBIs, which is definitely fine for a guy in the lower half of your batting order. And, hey, y'know, if you put those 30 HRs in a run producing spot of the lineup, you might have that magical 100+ RBI number make an appearance.
I just realized I've spent a good portion of time this year defending & big-upping Hee Sop Choi to naysayers & rabblerousers. Can someone get me in touch w/ his agent, yo?
― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 31 July 2004 16:33 (twenty years ago) link
still, i find it difficult to believe the same will happen to choi. i'm just throwing something out, but i'd guess guys with shorter swings and good plate coverage who don't strike out an obscene amount are more likely to make that turnaround. choi is not that guy.
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 18:10 (twenty years ago) link
you can sit back and watch the hysterics unfold here: http://p086.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbostonredsox.showMessageRange?topicID=13592.topic&start=3461&stop=3478
the snag is supposedly that the sox want a prospect, which is ludicrous on their part. nomar for clement is an even swap with long-term considerations taken accout for; so is lowe and cabrera. i really hope the cubs don't give in here, especially because, with wood and prior's health, clement could still be very valuable to them.
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago) link
i am going to freak out
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 18:47 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 19:10 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 31 July 2004 23:24 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 2 August 2004 01:42 (twenty years ago) link
The Chisox trading even a mortal 2004 Loaiza for Contreras is another white flag, no?
Of course Benson and V Zambrano will be Rick P's projects now, but VZ's walk rate is esp worrying. At least the pressure's off since the Mets got swept outta the race this weekend... Someone on BP says that Kazmir looks like a future oft-injured risk, a la Darren Dreifort.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 2 August 2004 03:52 (twenty years ago) link
here's a chance for range factor to be relevant for once:
reese 4.86nomar 3.84
now i'm not saying nomar's THAT bad...but there's a decent chance he could be pretty bad. and i'm partly saying this because i think epstein et al evaluated this and concluded as much.
this isn't, of course, taking into account the fact that he might lose/have lost considerable playing time, which would've left the sox with ricky guiterez as their starting shortstop. and depending on who you listen to, nomar was a cancer in the clubhouse as well. in short, this move was simply safe - epstein knows he's as good as anyone in the WC race with or without nomar, but garciaparra wasn't playing defense, didn't want to be there, was leaving at the end of the year, and might have gone down any time. so he was traded. in exchange, the sox got two solid players, one of whom can be a big help in the long-term, cabrera and renteria being the only two obvious options to replace nomar.
maybe epstein could've handled it better, maybe even a lot better. but as it is, the sox are not a worse team than before the deadline. they have enough talent that they didn't need to take a risk on whether or not nomar was going to DL himself, or ever get back to 100%.
and i really have no idea what you're going on about w/ contreras and loaiza. the sox won that one big. my only guess is that the yankees wanted innings (which makes a lot of sense in theory, but i'm not really sure it's going to work out) and/or really are near their cap and wanted to free up some cash for beltran + a pitcher this offseason. also, how on earth is that trade a "white flag" for the chisox (this is the second time i've seen that expression used) when they are the ones taking on cash? they traded a cheap, shitty pitcher for an expensive pitcher with great stuff and shitty results. why would anyone consider that a sign that they're giving up? they're spending cash and taking a risk to get a divisional pennant.
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 2 August 2004 06:25 (twenty years ago) link
VORP, 2004
Loaiza 15.3Contreras -0.5
(btw, a BP staffer was recently asked how to directly compare the value of a pitcher against a position player, and the reply was VORP is one way. It's designed to be position-neutral.)
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 12:23 (twenty years ago) link
2004Contreras:ERA 5.64, WHIP 1.41, BAA .250, OBPA .332, SLGA .462, OPSA .794, K/9 7.71, K/BB 1.95, GB/FB .85
Loaiza:ERA 4.86, WHIP 1.43, BAA .283, OBPA .334, SLGA .471, OPSA .805, K/9 5.31, K/BB 1.84, GB/FB 1.01
Loaiza only has the better superficial stats unless there are some park factors that are giving Contreras an unfair edge?
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:22 (twenty years ago) link
― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:27 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link
but DavidR, more importantly Contreras is allowing less batters on base!!!
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:38 (twenty years ago) link
How much of Contreras' low VORP can be attributed to the Yankees' defense?
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:23 (twenty years ago) link
Contreras: 95.2 IP, 93 H, 22 HRs Loaiza: 140.2 IP, 156 H, 23 HRs
JC's on pace to allow (in a full year of pitching) over FORTY homers?
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:32 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago) link
Also, I'd imagine the White Sox IF (Konerko / Uribe / Valentin / Crede) has less range and more suckitude defensively than the Yankee IF (Clark / Wilson / Jetes / Rodney) - is there a place where hits allowed are broken down by type?
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:48 (twenty years ago) link
the point is pretty simple: contereras can dominate, loaiza can't. while the trade is a bigger risk for the sox than it is for the yankees (for the $ if nothing else), they're NOT waving the flag. they might've gotten an ace-type pitcher for a mediocre one. you just don't throw games like jose has, this year and last, if you don't have the stuff do it. scouts say he does, and when his head or mechanics or whatever don't get in the way, he's done it.
the yankees got loaiza because they think he's capable of pitching a lot of 6IP 4ER starts and letting the offense carry him, while contreras was more a feast or famine type. and i think it's possible they wanted to save some bucks as well, believe it or not. we'll see if it works out, i guess, but it's hard to be pleased from my POV. we're basically hoping loaiza stays consistently mediocre enough to keep the yankees O (which isn't looking so hot to me these days) in games and save the bullpen (mostly the long relief) some innings. sox fans can hope for a lot more.
― John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:57 (twenty years ago) link
Contreras:ERA 4.62/2.56
Loaiza:ERA 4.17/4.58
― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:09 (twenty years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:42 (twenty years ago) link
Marlins-Lo Duca, Mota, and Seanez are all playing well.Valdez is playing about the same as with old club.Encarnacion is not doing much.
Dodgers-Finley is playing well.Choi is not doing much. Penny is on the DL.
Red Sox-Mienkiewicz and Cabrera are both hitting about the same as with their old clubs. Cabrera already has four errors in 19 games, Mienkiewicz hasn't yet had a miscue in the field with the Red Sox.
Cubs-Nomar is hitting like Nomar. He has three errors since joining the Cubs.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 23 August 2004 02:38 (twenty years ago) link
Please note: The Red Sox have won 12 of 15, with OC gone goofy w/ the bat in the past couple of days. The Cubs have split their last 10 (though Nomah is, as Earl said, hitting like Nomah), the Dodgers lead has increased (or at least it did prior to Gagne's week-long hiccup) (LENNY HARRIS?), and the Marlins have treaded water for the most part (from what I recall).
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 August 2004 11:51 (twenty years ago) link
Hmm...
NL West:Los Angeles - Last 10: 5-5San Francisco - Last 10: 8-2
Giants are still 4.5 back. The padres were 4.5 games back 2 weeks ago.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 23 August 2004 12:51 (twenty years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 August 2004 13:58 (twenty years ago) link
Red Sox - 23-7Marlins - 18-11Dodgers – 18-12Cubs - 17-12
The Red Sox success isn't really tied much to the trade, although Cabrera has played pretty well. They are the hottest team in the AL over that period and have kept with the blistering pace the Cardinals have been putting up.
The Marlins success is very much tied to the trade, as Lo Duca has hit quite well, Mota and Seanez have definitely improved the bullpen and Valdez has been solid going 3-1 with a 4.00 ERA.
The Dodgers haven't gotten anything out of Penny or Choi, but Finley has hit very well. Having another left handed power hitter in that lineup has to help Shawn Green and Beltre.
Nomar has played pretty well, but it is now obvious the Cubs needed to get another reliever for the strech run. They have played OK, but haven't been able to pull away.
It will be interesting to see how this weekend off because of the hurricane for the Marlins/Cubs effects them down the stretch. The Cubs probably could use some rest for their pitching staff, but the Fish were very hot and probably would not want to have a three day break in the middle of a winning streak. These games could definitely be interesting when they are replayed, as they could decide the wildcard and could include long plane flights on scheduled off days.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 4 September 2004 23:34 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 5 September 2004 19:22 (twenty years ago) link