Rolling NYY - BOS 2004 ALCS thread

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larry mahnken's commentary at the hardball times today helped convince me the picture isn't quite as bleak as i'd previously thought:

"Should the Yankees finish the series today, they'll be able to start Mussina in Game One. That rotation hardly negates Boston's starting two, but in a potential Game Seven the Yankees might have Mussina against Bronson Arroyo, though of course all the pitchers but Pedro and Brown will be available in the bullpen."

though i'd guess it could easily be mussina against schilling on 3 days rest. if el duque comes back strong, i'm confident the yankees can squeak it out with no small degree of luck. otherwise, it's going to take stellar performances from a whole batch of pitchers who've delivered far less than most of the year. the sox and twins offenses are so disparate as to be almost beyond compare: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Overall&cut_type=0&conference=AL&year=season_2004&sort=702

so who's gonna win? in the end it boils down to this -

what the sox have on their side:
offense
defense
pitching

what the yanks have on their side:
history

choose wisely.

(yankees in 7, just cuz)

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 9 October 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Sox in 7. Make it so, Sox.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 10 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Sox in 6 and Schilling wins 2 of 'em

― bnw (bnw), Sunday, 10 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Again, I'm agreeing with John here.
History is going to give 100%, stay focused and play some solid d.
(Boston will choke).

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 10 October 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck a choke.

Sox in 6.

― David R. (popshots75`), Sunday, 10 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Red Sox in 6 or 7 -- they're just too fucking strong. I'm impressed.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 10 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

ihttp://https://www.sunlawn.com/catalog/images/400AB.jpg

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

oh no, i've lost it!! that's the first ever image that's not gone thru for me :( :( :( :( :( i am not pure of heart

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

my title was better!!!

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Sox in 4.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

(The Twins kept the Yankees on the ropes almost every game except Game 3, which had last-inning could-they-do-it intensity anyways -- and the Twins do not have Manny/Ortiz/Damon.)

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

There will be no Boston choke. The Yankees, OTOH, can collectively choke on my dick.
Boston in 6. I would have said 5 but the Yanks have the home field advantage.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 10 October 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Boston over NYY in 6.

― boldbury (boldbury), Sunday, 10 October 2004 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Boston over the Yanks in 6. I don't know if I can take this shit again.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Monday, 11 October 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Daddies in 5.

― briania (briania), Monday, 11 October 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Boston in 7, maximum dramah.

― the leglo (the leglo), Monday, 11 October 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't need anymore fuckin dramah.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Monday, 11 October 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

SURPRISE: Murray Chass of the New York Times sez the Red Sox will lose the ALCS because losing is what they do. I'll be fucked if I'm gonna actually dredge up a link to that hooey - John or some other pro-Yanker can do that dirty work (oh yeah).

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 11 October 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

we all know how long it's been since the BoSox won a world series, but how long has it been since they beat the Yanks in a playoff series?

― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 11 October 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

In the brief history of the wild card race?

1999 NYY 4 - BOS 1
2003 NYY 4 - BOS 3

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 11 October 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck a flat knuckleball in extra innings a 3 year old could take deep.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 11 October 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Game 1 -- Schilling/Mussina
Game 2 -- Martinez/Lieber
Game 3 -- Arroyo/Brown
Game 4 -- Wakefield/Vazquez
Game 5 -- Schilling/Mussina

Looking at that lineup, I just can't feel that the Red Sox have a great advantage. They have some, but I wouldn't be suprised that Mussina or Lieber either one comes out and at least holds a game tight enough that it comes down to the bullpens late. Wakefield could either be unhittable or be gone early, not that Vazquez is a Maddux of consistency or anything.

The Yanks defense is much better than last year. Olerud may have lost most of his bat, but he is still good with the glove and a definite upgrade on Giambi in the field. I don't think the Sox defense is much better, if it is at all.

Both of these teams can hit like wild.

I wouldn't be suprised that the big game comes down to who screws up between Mike Timlin, Alan Embree, Flash Gordon or Paul Quantrill.

At least the Sox are not going to have to call upon Bob Stanley or Calvin Schraldi to get the last few outs. Keith Foulke is the first real closer they have had when Boston actually had a shot at winning it all.

This is Boston's best chance that I can remember. They went out and got a gold glove ringer to play first and a real closer, so at least they are trying to learn from their mistakes.

All I know is if I was a Sox fan I don't want to see Miguel Cairo coming to the bat in extra innings against Derek Lowe. They should shutter at the thought of that happening.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Sox in 5 if curse doesn't come into play (they really just a far better team--on paper and IRL.) Yankees in 7 in the most tragic way possible if curse holds up.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, all the people picking the Red Sox here virtually ensures the Yanks will win. Fade the public.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, the Red Sox were 11-8 against the Yankees this season. However, if you look at the second half of the season the Yanks come out ahead, since the Red Sox started out very strong, going 6-1 at the beginning of the season. This means that after the first seven games, and once the team found its footing, the Yanks went 10-2.

I think it will be the Yanks in 7. No one who watched that midseason game where Jeter dived headfirst into the stands running for a pop foul can question the determination of this team to beat the BoSox.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

once the team found its footing, the Yanks went 10-2.
No, check your math, they went 7-5.
And Jeter can be as determined as he wants, but the Sox are a better team. Both teams "want" to win equally badly.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

It's times like these that I wish I were feelthy rich and could afford to spend a week out East paying insane broker prices for tickets and watching BoSox and Yankees fans beat each other to a pulp while I sit in the middle with my hands behind my head and feet up, smoking a celebratory stogie.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, and I guess that July extra inning game in Boston where Varitek got in A-Rod's face and they won in the 9th on a Mueller HR off of Mariano, that don't mean dookie. Sheesh to the nth powah.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

BBT wants to be Ring Lardner in Eight Men Out!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

No one who watched that midseason game where Jeter dived headfirst into the stands running for a pop foul can question the determination of this team to beat the BoSox.

No offense o-nate, but no one would've noticed this play if it wasn't Jeter.

xxxpost

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

JETER JETER JETER!

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

No, check your math, they went 7-5

Sorry, I'm losing it. You're right.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

No offense o-nate, but no one would've noticed this play if it wasn't Jeter

Much to-do is made of Torii Hunter's fearlessness in jumping into the outfield wall after a home run. In my view, diving headfirst into the seats shows more fearlessness than running into the outfield wall.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Um can I ask why Mr. Determined & Fearless and the rest of Overpaidy Bunch have managed to um like not win the World Series the last three years against other teams who like the Red Sox also lack Mr. Determined & Fearless (but have those little intangibles like scrappy hitting and starting pitching. . .)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

jeter is underrated

― John (jdahlem), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, obviously determination and fearlessness aren't everything. Also, I think that determination is particularly strong against the Sox, moreso than for other teams perhaps. I think what happened last year is that the Yankees spent themselves against the Sox and didn't have enough juice left for the Series.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I think this is the toughest and MOST talented Sox team I've ever seen. I'd be shocked if the Yankees beat them cuz of pure grit or something. And the Red Sox didn't lose last year because of mental toughness anyway. They lost because their manager was an idiot (which I suppose is still possible this year.)

Jeter is an amazing ballplayer, but he's subject to the same laws of baseball that almost everyone else is. I mean for all his big game player talk, the guy was 0-4 against Beckett in that final game.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeter is not mentioned enough by sportscasters.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha you are joking, right?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Go ahead and laugh, but even leaving aside Jeter, I count on A-Rod's determination to get that WS Ring to be another not inconsiderable factor.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha and I'm sure that none of the Red Sox hitters (or pitchers want that ring.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

They do but A-Rod is better than them.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Football and basketball commentators say these sorts of things all the time, i.e. "The score is ties at the half, and it's all going to come down to who wants it more". Uh, no, it's going to come down to who plays better. There's not an athlete alive who is playing for a championship in any sport who believes that the players on the other team have more determination, motivation, or want to win more badly than they do.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think he's much better than Ramirez (at hitting anyways.)

Anyway this whole series is going to come down to how the Yankee hitters deal with Schilling. If they can't (and history seems to indicate they can't) I predict that this is going to be a very short series for them. If they can then I would wager these teams are about even and all this talk of "pressure" and "grit" and "toughness" might actually mean something.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 October 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't it think it's schilling so much as schilling AND pedro (which is so obvious that it doesn't really need to be said) - they have to hope to split those games, and come out on top in the others. but wakefield always seems to manhandle the yankees as well.

― John (jdahlem), Monday, 11 October 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Almost forgot to predict...

~~I'm pulling hard for the Sox but my GUT is sending me a signal I cannot ignore. Yanqs in 7 again.~~

Aw to hell with that, Sox in 7, party on the big goddamned NY logo behind home plate!!!
http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-1629875th.gif !!!

― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Nelson can pee on it!

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

http://wwjdd.org/wwjdd.gif

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

In my view, diving headfirst into the seats and risking a season-ending injury OR paralysis when your team is playoff-certain is fucking stupid. I think Joe Sheehan -- a Yankee fan -- said so on BP 3 months ago.

I actually think Jeter and A-Rod were both somewhere around the 11th to 15th-most valuable AL players this year. Jeets had a good year even if he's monstrously overrated.

Please Bosox, exorcise your demons NOW, then let the Blue Jays Era begin in 2006.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

EAT MY FUK YANKEES.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 441 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Another shit call at second. Christ.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Blown call or not, CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

You know what sucks? We're going to see "Mr. October" and his acrobatic non-tag from now 'til the sun burns out.

FUCK.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Ortiz was safe, no doubt about it, but that was a hell of a leap by Jeter to keep that ball out of center field.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I predict the Yanks put it away this inning. The Red Sox have had their shots.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Poor Mirabelli is trying to perform surgery with his hands in his mitt.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

WOmack breaks up the no-no...

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Varitek, duh!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, he escaped three passed balls...

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

God, that was an unbeliebable inning! I thought Varitek alone was going to give up theh ghost.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going to a gig tonight, I have to leave soon HIT THE BALL OUT MUELLER!!!!!

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The game will still be going on when you get back

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I flipped over to the NLCS during the break -- it looks like they're playing in a tanning booth.

― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never been so nervous about a guy's pitching when he's been pitching so well. (i.e. the passed balls)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

*Yawn*. Seriously, Manny, Johnny, Bill...you can wrap this one up anytime you want to.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, the Astros/Cardinals game is on Channel 248 here. I've never, ever tuned into Channel 248.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, Mark Bellhorn struck out!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

At least the umpiring has been poor going both ways...that was no ball 4.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, Mark Bellhorn struck out!

No way!!!

― ojitarian (ojitarian), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Damon better not attempt to steal again

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Everyone is too tired to hit anything at the moment

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

c'mon, Manny.

JUST TAKE ONE DIP AND END IT.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, the other game is in the 8th inning.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel like Redd Foxx on Sanford & Son...

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

FUCK YES, THANK YOU BABY JESUS!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

THANK YOU PAPI!!!!!!!

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

SUCK THAT

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Earth to Gygax, did you get ahold of your family? Everything here is still in black and white and my little dog Toto is right here, so situation normal.

― William Crump (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

enjoy it while it lasts ... for tomorrow night it's at yankee stadium, and it'll be ...

TASTE THE CAPITALISM BOSTON BITCHES time!!!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:08 (twenty-one years ago)

You said that last night.

Look what happened.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

in the interests of good sportsmanship ... hats off to David Ortiz. he deserves it.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

too much oiveying. Me and my across-the-street neighbor and his kitties knew the Sox would pull it out.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, great game!

And yes, Mr. Crumple, I got a voicemail stating that all was fine in northcentral MS.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Ortiz has been a monster, but this ends tonight in New York. What's the story with Schilling's ankle?

Did I really see Ortiz try to steal a base tonight? He was safe, but still, what the hell is Francona thinking there?

― Shaun (shaun), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

MINDFUCKERY

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:17 (twenty-one years ago)

TWO

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Reebok custom-made Schilling a shoe that will provide him all the ankle support in the right places and allow the shoe to flex in a way that his old shoe wouldn't. Schilling's bullpen session yesterday went very well according to scouts.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:24 (twenty-one years ago)

apparentl they were chanting Who's Your Dealer to Sheff.

― Magic City (ano ano), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 05:08 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahaha snap

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

aaargh.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

As Al Leiter said at the 3-inning 2-hour mark on Saturday,"Welcome to American League baseball." Or the Ring Cycle (with worse music).

I feel certain we're gonna see a position player get a save before this is over. Or an arm fall off.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Christ this is killing me again. I haven't slept in a week. If Papi doesn't get the MVP this year.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

can you imagine if that game had started at 8:10 instead of 5:10?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i started watching at 10pm GMT, couldn't stay up.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Final tally on the three Boston games:
35 pitchers (not different pitchers, obv)
1299 pitches (!!!)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Although only Lieber and Schilling didn't pitch during those games, so it was literally about 20 different pitchers.

[ADMIN: Thread locked, go here for part 2: Rolling NYY - BOS 2004 ALCS thread part 2 ]

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Boston in 7, maximum dramah.

-- the leglo (i...), October 11th, 2004 8:20 AM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

i don't need anymore fuckin dramah.

-- Velveteen Bingo (formerlypoopsmcge...), October 11th, 2004 9:15 AM.

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 22 October 2004 03:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, I called it. Sox in 4. Didn't say nothin' about them losing three games first.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Friday, 22 October 2004 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

w00t!

i think i'm going to retire from predicting while i'm on top...

― the leglo (the leglo), Friday, 22 October 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

What kind of thread lock is this?

[ADMIN: Thread locked, go here for part 2: Rolling NYY - BOS 2004 ALCS thread part 2 ]

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

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