Relationship Infidelity

I've been on all three sides of the equation. Being cheated on is one of the most painful experiences known to humankind, and I can't justify causing that kind of pain to another human being.

I have cheated on a lover exactly once, because I wanted to know what it felt like, why people did it, what enjoyment they derived out of it, and what their motivations were. It also occured quite soon after my father revealed his mistress to us, so there was a hint of "Oh, if it's OK for you, it's OK for me." It was not a pleasant experience, not even as a power trip. I felt like shit. I left the relationship with the cheatee due to guilt. The relationship with the person with whom I cheated on fell apart quite quickly, too. There was never any trust between us.

I also confess to having been the third party, more than once. This behaviour is deplorable and I have no excuse to offer other than sheer drunkenness. No, I didn't get any "Ooh, I'm so naughty, this is such a thrill" vicarious pleasure out of it at all. It was more a case of waking up the next morning feeling sick to my stomach with more than a hangover.

I really find no place for infidelity in my emotional life. It's a fairly black and white issue for me. Maybe other people can give examples (my friends parents, for example) where one partner has cheated and left an unhealthy relationship for a stable one, but I think it's rare to non-existent.

What if you're the third party and the pleasure is simply because you really like the person.

I don't think it matters if the cheating is about sex and not about love - unless it happens to me: the minute I found out they'd be dumped.

I've kiss-cheated and once my best friend's partner, who was my partner's best friend, and I tried to cheat together, just to get it out of the way and to reduce the sexual innuendo that had been occuring so we could get on with our real relationships - but our heart wasn't in it and we couldn't go through with it. Thankfully.

Saying that cheating is OK if it's only about sex ... ugh ... the word "cheapens" comes to mind, but I can't think of a way to work it into a sentance without sounding pedantic and No Fun At All.

I can almost understand destroying a relationship and wrecking lives if it really, truly is for the sake of Love. Cheating and saying "Oh, it didn't mean anything, it was just sex..." cheapens everything. Like ... this relationship means so little to you that you are prepared to throw it away for a fucking SCREW? What, you have ten fingers and you couldn't use your imagination enough to have a WANK?

But I am an intolerant person that has never HAD a successful relationship, so what do I know?

I'm a relationship someone who I love a lot and who I really like as a companion as well. I know someone else who I like and to whom I am quite sexually attracted but who I have no desire to be in a relationship with, or even to share tender intimacy. Without pre-meditation we end up having sex. It means nothing more than fun sex for either of us and it doesn't happen again.

OR

I'm a relationship someone who I love a lot and who I really like as a companion well. I have gone away interstate or overseas. Because I'm away I have that whole 'alternate universe' kind of feeling where what I'm living at that time has almost no relation to my everyday life. I meet someone with whom I share an intense but transitory attraction. We sleep together. We know that it is a 'here & now' think and enjoy it while it's happening without any fantasies about 'forever'.

I consider both these scenarios to be quite realistic and not totally morally wrong. On the other hand, trust (& control & obsession) are important parts of a relationship for me and so if someone else did them to me I would end it. Hence I also do not do it to others. I do, however, cousel friends to try to be tolerant of it because I believe they (and I, if I could) would be much happier if they were able to accept it.

I don't think giving in to animal passion type sex is cheap at all.

Like, there's a difference between having sex with people because you think it's the only way to get them to like you/having sex with people because you don't love yourself enough to be part of a loving relationship and so you use 'cheap' sex as a love substitute and having sex with lots of people because you enjoy it.

(NB I wuv Ally McBeal)

That's awfully judgmental. Loving relationships are hard to come by. Sometimes you have to take what you can get.

No, I think that statement proves exactly what was said. The whole idea of "taking what you can get" is so ... it just shows a lack of respect for oneself, i.e. "I would rather be with someone who makes me feel cheap than be alone." which expresses a fundamental inability to be alone. The usual reason for inability to be alone, even faced without a suitable Other is because of desperate lack of self worth.

Some would say this is a chocolate/vanilla taste sort of thing, but my own personal experience ... I don't believe it.

I actually like sex far more than is good for me. And in the persuit of good or even GREAT sex, I have got myself into some incredibly painful and self destructive situations. I had to learn through hard and painful experience that NO sex in the fucking world is SO good that you should sacrifice your self or your self respect for.

Lots of people would like to go around purporting that sex is just a pleasurable recreational physical activity. Fact of human nature is that it is more than that, and if you pretend that it is not, either you or the person you are having sex with is going to get emotionally hurt.

You like to boast that you don't have a consciensce, or that you don't give a shit about other human beings. I simply cannot act like that.

No, my dear, I'm just woefully immature. But hey, pat yourself on the back with great aplomb -- I'm very proud of you for coming up with one of those rare insults that make the insultee look bad no matter how she chooses to respond. Now I love you almost as much as you seem to love yourself.

You like to boast that you don't have a consciensce, or that you don't give a shit about other human beings.

You like to misinterpret things I say.

I'm the one defending people who have sex with lots of other people becuase they enjoy it.

I'm dissing those who go for 'cheap' sex as a love substitute because they have no self respect. There is nothing to defend about their behaviour, it is pathetic. And yes, I do have the right to judge it as such, as I have the right to judge everything and everybody.

Sucks all around, I think.

i wouldnt want to be either of the first two, being cheated on would hurt, and i wouldnt want to do that to a partner (if i felt enough to be with them, i doubt i would want to do something destructive). it wouldnt worry me so much to be the 3rd party (as i wouldnt be in the relationship), but it wouldnt really be something i'd want to get involved with.

the above may well read fairly moralistically, and i suppose to an extent it is, but its more a personal and practical thing (its not like i have to wrestle with conscience or anything, it just has never occurred to me to get involved with it).

as to the other question about a relationship that started out as cheating, i don't know. i would think 90% of the time something would nag me about it, and unless i could overcome that, it could grow into worry eventually, and their might be a trust issue (but then it would depend on the context of how it happened and there might be some circumstances in which it didnt lead to worry)

I realize, however, that this is much harder IRL - especially if you are married and/or there are kids involved.

Erm... seriously considering? Yes and no. I think one of the wisest things that Tom has ever said around here was that when you have a wicked crush on someone outside your relationship, you need to look at the crush as being evidence that you wish you were more like the crushee in some way (feeling they have some quality that you yourself lack) - not necessarily any fundamental flaw with the relationship or your partner.

If you can look at things that way, and have it make sense, then you probably shouldn't leave the relationship. Or cheat.

but, is it you thats being suspicious/unsure, or her?

a) you will feel guilty
b) you will feel you have no rights with the other person involved
c) they will get away with things that you should not let them get away with but not do anything because you have no rights
d) you will feel even worse
e) even if they do break up to have something with you, how cd you trust them
f) if they break up to be with you you feel upset for the other person
g) you will be associated with "being a cheat" and the guilty feelings => this does not lead to much healthiness in mental state
h) from steps!
i) wouldn't see much good in starting a relationship that began with cheating.
j) zee!
k) but who knows.

Often cheating only happens for a bit of damn comfort. And if yr in that state anyway you can't see t'wood for t'trees. Misery!!

when I did it (a long time ago) it was genuinely out of a collosal and all consuming love (and lust), while the existing relationship was pretty flawed. But it was the crappest and least respectful way to end the existing one, and the whole thing of course exploded in my face - I ended up in therapy. there were moments of real joy but they were NOT worth the pain to me or others that ensued.

I'm now married, have kids, and am perfectly happy. But the difference between that kind of happiness and the giddying short term joy of a crush (they do still happen, and when the relationship timescale is decades it seems to me unavoidable that they should) is a uniquely weird thing to try and handle. I wonder if this is actually quite different from some of the scenarios raised above - not in its consequences, but in its causes.

(Archel, yeah I appreciate it)

Personally, I'd be sufficiently convinced that it'll never work to do anything, but not because of how it started, just because of me. So, on the one hand I get a sound night's sleep. On the other hand, I get a sound night's sleep.

Still, my girlfriend-minding service goes in leaps and bounds. Farrell Enterprises - "A safe pair of hands".

I have never been unfaithful but I have been the other man and unlike most things in my life, I don't regret it. He never knew, if that makes any difference.

I used to be in a relationship where I was CONSTANTLY accused of cheating on my partner. I was NEVER unfaithful to him. Never. It wasn't until after the relationship was over that I found out he had cheated on me constantly through the relationship, even going so far as to not bother breaking off his previous relationship until he had been seeing me for a month.

I'd say that people who throw suspicions around are usually the ones with the guilty consciences. Except for the fact that Unfaithful Fucker has made me so paranoid that I was (am?) incapable of trusting anyone any more.

Why is it all stories of doom and gloom here?

Accepting it might come from growing up in a small town where anyone you end up with will have been with one of your best friends or vice-versa.

I just don't think unfaithfulness has to be a bad thing. Some people just don't care about it and some people find it a useful way to get out of a relationship that wasn't quite right.

Maybe ILXers are a bunch of particularly emotional people who can't cope with the betrayal of unfaithfulness (myself included) but I know so many people IRL that don't have a problem with it and for whom it is a normal part of life. It seems strange that there is no representation of those people here.

I was once placed in a very awkward situation, in the middle of a ‘love triangle’ involving three of my best friends, two of whom embarked on an illicit affair at the expense of the third. Because I then shared a flat with one of them without wishing to I got caught up in a web of lies and deceit. By the time the ‘affair’ went public I’d been repeatedly been placed in a situation of feeling unable to tell a close friend his partner (also a friend) was regularly sleeping with my flatmate. It cost me two friendships, and left a very sour taste.

fritz, its not that people necessarily think this *logically*, i can quite accept this is true, but its slightly different when you're involved. wouldnt necessarily think they would cheat, but there could well be that little nagging doubt

toranekos point is strange, about the partner swarrping. surely this is something that is open and upfront, therefore people are either happy with it from the off, or they say "no". the unfaithfulness is coupled with dishonesty, i don't want people to lie to me and stuff - if they think what they're doing is fine, then tell me about it, then i'll make my decision - don't hide it!

ronan, to your situation, i think, for your own peace of mind, you need to find out what the situation is between girl and bf (if things are "fine" between them, you've got a problem)

Toraneko, you should speak to the lesbian contingent at Monash - that particular coterie is so incestuous that a full-blown group sex extravaganza can surely not be far off (strange but true fact: they are much worse than the gay guys!).

eh? elaborate, please, mister farrell. bearing in mind that it is lunchtime and i am eating a sandwidge.

I remember fielding a phone call from an angry boyfriend (then of my now live-in partner, so it all worked out okay) when he demanded to know precisely how many times I'd had sex with his girlfriend. When I replied that I hadn't really been keeping count he was less than happy.

ask her if she and her boyfriend are into polyamoury.

No way are you in love with someone who you've known for eight hours. Just remind yourself that.

Re: the cheating question — it's easy to overthink the issue, but the fact is if you care about someone enough to be in a relationship with them, at least have the balls to break up with them before you date/fuck someone else. It's not that hard, seriously. I've never seen any good come of a cheating situation, and it's true that relationships that come of them are always frought with trust issues. I've never seen it go down any other way.

This is a good point.

When someone close to you does not trust you.

Before you start threat-yawning at co-workers, however, it's important to
keep in mind that comparisons to these smelly, grunting primates can go too
far. This is a species, after all, in which males who "want to say howdy" to
friends will often, Sapolsky says, give a nonchalant yank on each other's
penis. That's the kind of behavior that can make any human, from alpha males
to alternative-strategy guys, thank God for the high-five. And, of course,
three million years of beautiful evolution.

"And, when the alpha isn't looking, scuttling off to the bushes
with his best girl for what has become known as 'sneaky copulation.'"

I wonder if alpha-male baboons spit at meek male baboons.

feels so good to read this right now! she is history now.

Cheating, while I'm in the act, tends to have a "giddy taste of forbidden fruit" feeling, but the guilt and remorse kick almost immediately afterward, and I've usually left the "crime scene" (for lack of a better phrase) in a big hurry. Getting cheated on - once I've found out about it - just feels like a big kick in the teeth, like I was a sucker for ever thinking I could have something real with that person.

Ergo, both suck for different reasons, so I try to keep my nose clean either way.

I'll ignore what Tombot thinks, and treat this as an actual question.

First, you don't say if anything actually happened. Did it? What?
Second, is the boyfriend actually in the picture? Do you know him? Is she random, or in your social circle?

Basically, I think that if they are distinct from the rest of your life, you should just go for it. And I know that people will be angry at that advice, but I think you have nothing to lose and loads to gain.

Personally, I've cheated and been cheated on. I had an intense thing with someone with a very long term partner. We got closer without getting together, and the tension made everything seem more meaningful. Finally, it happened, and we were both able to get it out of our systems. I was able to understand that I wouldn't want to see that person long-term, and happily sent them back to their partner. That way, I had no regrets.

So, that could happen, you could fall in love and be together forever, or you could be together for a while and she leaves you for boyfriend or your best friend or your sister, and then you'll be sad, but at least you won't love her anymore, because you know she's a bad person.

Am intrigued just how polarised the views on this sort of thing are on here. Yeah looking at it logically/objectively it's a bad move for all concerned, and yet...

another side of it: after being cheated on, i started getting off on the idea of the person i was sleeping with being with someone else, or maybe just imaging that in my head. not that i actually wanted to witness it, just that the idea of it turned me on. is that a competitive thing? weird thing? understandable? i told someone of my fantasy along those lines recently and he acted as though i'd said i thought about animals during sex.

In one case, many years ago, the infidelity got me into a very sticky situation I had to "take care of", if you get my drift. That b/f was never told about it. Now, I dont care. I made a very stupid mistake with a friend, but I am lucky he's still one of my best mates, and the situation is best just learned from and put aside now.

I see no need to hide who I am posting this. I have no secrets.

*fear*

PS not really.

I've been a part of a cheater's harem and it made me feel like an idiot when I ended up comparing stories with another girl. I suspected that my ex had cheated on me towards the tail end of our doomed LDR. But, truthfully my anger about it was all ego driven because it drove me crazy just thinking that he was with someone younger and possibly prettier than me.

And now I'm an Other Woman. The situation is/was kinda sketchy and I think it's funny (well, it probably won't be for her if she finds out). I think I'd feel guilty or possibly ashamed if I actually was it for more than the cheap thrill. I mean, I'm single and have the license to do what I want. It's really the guy and his girlfriend's problem if he can't keep his lust in check. Or maybe I'm just a sketchy asshole, which is entirely possible.

not necessarily. it depends on why the person cheats. that said, i have never cheated.

i think you should start doing this for sport and keep a tally

i remember reading what you wrote here (Being single - Classic or Dud) and thinking to myself that it was one of the oddest, coldest, "WARNING WARNING THIS PERSON HAS MAJOR RELATIONSHIP ISSUES" things i'd ever read

but i worried that was maybe a little unfair

reading your contributions to this thread, i'm no longer troubled by that worry

(you give the impression of someone who honestly doesn't care about anyone but herself; i hope that's not true)

(but you better hope that the woman you're helping to betray never gets her druthers)

Like you know me. Fuck off.

but he's not the one lovelessly screwing someone else's boyfriend and patting himself on the back about it, is he?

(ooh SNAP)

but he's not the one lovelessly screwing someone else's boyfriend and patting himself on the back about it, is he?

I find it hard to feel chastised by someone who can't even log in to talk shit. Especially when they tell me I have a problem because I'm on record as not a fan of hugs or small dicks.

xpost I'm not being dishonest in my situation. As far as I know, there could be Other Women with this guy since he decided that he doesn't see himself as a monogamous sort. I'll even note that I think it sucks for the girl because she probably has no idea what he's up to. I rarely see the guy. Maybe once or twice a month tops. We're not wining and dining. It's an arrangement we've had since before they got together. He and I are friendly, but truthfully I could care less what he's up to normally and vice versa. I'm single by choice and the arrangement works for me at this moment in time. Is there going to be an anti-fuck buddy tempest next?

I don't mind if you're on her side or not, but as long as the man she's talking about isn't your boyfriend, I don't see any reason to get abusive about it.

i've been unfaithful in the past because i could be, basically - willing participants were present, and i am a weak pathetic motherfucker.

so here's the problem. i've been with my current other half for over a year, without a hitch. it has never occurred to me to be unfaithful, cos i love this person and fancy them rotten. but...

...tonight, for the first time in well over a year, i met someone completely randomly - and I'm massively, completely, all-encompassingly attracted to them.

fuck.

that means there are fundamental cracks in my relationship, right? fuckfuckfuck.

http://www.rocknrollhell.com/reospeedwagon/hiinfidelity.jpg

So, bobby bedelia, tell us what's going on with you?

i am faithful

Faithfully reviving lots of these kinds of threads for no raisin?

ain't no sin (if they ain't locked.....)

Reving ancient "reviving ancient threads" threads.... etc etc
I like it, its good to see who used to be about, and what they had to say.

-- Trayce (trayce), Thursday, September 11, 2003 9:01 AM (3 years ago)

Do you think "once a cheater" yadda yadda yadda is true?

I repeat what I said above, no, because it depends why you are cheating.

Also, this is a grebt fucking thread and therefore a great idea to revive it.

Also, what Jon said. I (vaguely) know a guy who was more into crushes than a longterm relationship. I wonder and hope, cause I don't see him anymore so i don't know, that he's now come to the realization that you can't crush forever. Well, you can of course. Also, I saw this old Law & Order ep last night that was about beint "stuck in a marriage" and teh guy felt the need to escape. He came across as extremely selfish and childish (pubescent more like it).

nathalie is grebt - i'm not crushing on you ;)

Hey, you can crush as much as you want to, it ain't reciprocal. :-)

So Bobby have you cheated? Do you count just looking (and wondering/fantasizing) as infidelity? I think it is a form of infidelity but how guilty should you feel about it? I think it's inevitable your and/or your partner's mind may sometimes wander.

Just looking is natural, isn't it? I wouldn't class it as infidelity. But don't say it is or I'll flay myself and wear a hair shirt for the rest of my life.

end result? understandable but now over-the-top-irrational distrust of relationships and promises.

i read that as ...over-the-top-irrational distrust of relationships and penises

Natural doesn't mean it isn't infidelity. If you have a sexual fantasy about that other person or even wonder how life would be with that person, I would consider it as a very mild form of infidelity. It's not a concrete "acted out" form of infidelity but it is theoretically speaking one. Well, it is in my book. I would never be really cross if I would discover if my husband does wonder/wander. But I rather not know if he does. :-)

What about sexy dreams?

Looking at other people, having mild crushes, and having fantasies are not infidelity. If, on the other hand, you reach a stage where you would prefer to be by yourself with your fantasies, or hanging out with your crush (even in an outwardly platonic setting) than with your significant other, you might want to take a look at your relationship. That is my belief.

I mean, shit, I see it as infidelity but only when I am "analyzing" (read: pretending to be Butler/Greer). I think, realistically you can't see this as infidelity or you would drive yourself mental. You have to be realistic (read: relationships have ups 'n' downs,...).

yes, fantasies/crushes are nowhere near qualifying as infidelity. i have been with my wife for a very long time, over 20 years, and of course there have been several women to whom i've been strongly attracted, and a couple of times the feeling was mutual. a few years ago i probably had the best "opportunity" to cheat with a woman who i had a crazy crush on, but i'm glad to say i didn't go there, and managed to keep things strictly platonic.

LIKE ANY ANY ANY GOOD?

I know someone who is now married to and has two children with a woman with whom he was cheating.

Is this good? Or is it bad? Who knows.

Just looking is natural, isn't it?

just because you are being fed at home does not mean you can't check out the menu in restaurants. Or get a bag of curried chips on the way home from the pub.

drunken kisses, though? Eh? EH?

Only as long as they're bachelor kisses, it seems.

About 3 years back, I went through a period of cheating on my partner--it had very little to do with him or even with the relationship, and a whole lot to do with some transient intimacy issues I was having. I'd gotten together with my guy probably a bit too close on the heels of the demise of a very serious long-term relationship, and as those wounds hadn't yet healed, getting close to someone new was kind of a minefield. Cheating was a release-valve/safety net to deal (read: not deal) with any uncomfortable feelings that my new relationship brought up. He never found out, and eventually I manned up, quit the cheating, and started working out my shit.

I'm still with the guy, which is a good thing, but even years later my cheating haunts me--when things get rough I find myself (irrationally) fearing that HE'LL do the same thing to ME, and when things are good I have that nagging-secret-guilt feeling. I'm occasionally tempted to confess, but I know this would only cause him pain. I've been selfish enough already.

Incidentally, my previous long term relationship ended for many reasons, but primarily because I'd reached a point where I was like, "Fuck it, I don't want to be in love anymore, it's too hard." It's been my experience that when I'm with someone for long enough, eventually I come up against this well-nigh uncontrollable urge to run/hide/cheat/whatever...learning to do otherwise is like ouch, but worth it.

As for looking/crushing/flirting, I'm all for it, as long as you remain respectful towards your partner. There must always come the final accounting: "Baby, you know I'd rather be with you than anyone in the world." I sometimes LIKE to watch my man get his flirt on, and be like, "That's right, ladies, he's coming home with me at the end of the night." Likewise, some of my hottest sex ever has been had after a night of flirting with someone else. It can definitely be taken too far, though...

yeah this sucks

sorry bro

oh it's not my relationship, i'm just lamenting for a bro of mine : /

infidelity in a friend's relationship is a guaranteed shot in the arm for your own friendship with them though!

Well, I never contributed to this thread at the time, but yeah, it sucks. I've cheated and been the third party, and suspect (but don't know) that I've been cheated on.

When I cheated on my ex, he found out and we split but got back together, and despite the fact that the only reason why I cheated on him was that I was stupidly obliterated drunk, it turned out that it really was a manifestation of our relationship turning to shit, that I did want out but hadn't realised it enough to get out of co-dependency.

As the third party, I've never had ramifications, as the relationships have been either ones I didn't know about at the time or ones that were overseas and thus very removed from the situation.

The stuff people have said upthread about crushing is kind of odd, though, as in most of my other relationships I've not looked at anyone else, but then I did end up cheating in some of them. Whereas now I feel perfectly free and easy to judge people on aesthetic value/hottness, because I'm so in love with my boyfriend that I don't feel threatened by my possible sexualities.

Hey, I'm drunk and talking nonsense about myself! w00t!

don't do it. the girl I started this thread about is a loser. I am so glad I never ended up with her.

He says at three in the morning...

sometimes I read/see old media depictions of cheating spouses/couples and I kinda wonder if this thing was just more common in past generations or what. Like, not just garden-variety cheating where one member of a couple is having an affair with someone random, but stories of people banging their friends' wives/husbands, spouse-swapping (granted mostly a 60s/70s thing), etc. This does not jibe with my experience being in or with other married couples at all. But I suppose accurate sociological data for this kind of behavior is probably hard to come by.

you know, like in a Woody Allen movie where there's two couples that are all friends and one guy is sleeping with the other guy's wife behind his back etc. that kind of set up. It's sort of unfathomable to me.

What's most unfathomable to me is the husband/wife not even picking up on it.

I almost wonder if that's Woodys slightly warped perception of the world, fantasizing that people just don't notice the bad thing someone is doing.

kinda wonder if this thing was just more common in past generations or what

i cherish optimistic shakey

one of my best friend's wives not only cheated on him, but managed to turn it around on him and say it was his fault and then divorced *him*

in fact, I know a lot of people who are outright brazen and open about it still, even in today's era when rumors can fly so much faster. my brother's best friend two years ago was once openly talking in front of a group of strangers about the girl he was going to sleep with that night, when he was with his girlfriend of five years. zero remorse or shame, even despite the looks some of us gave him.

he managed to get caught that night and she finally broke up with him (wisely) but it was like he had no shame in who heard him at that dinner table that night.

sometimes I read/see old media depictions of cheating spouses/couples and I kinda wonder if this thing was just more common in past generations or what

I live in the "slow neighborhood" in this small city and I hear a lot about all the bed-swapping that takes place in the "fast neighborhood" with slightly more expensive houses about a mile and a half from here.

Shakes do you live in SF or no, come on.

tell us more about slow and fast neighborhoods?

i've known several married and long-established couples to have come unglued due to cheating, and a few that have endured it. maybe it's more common (or just more open) in some cultures than others, but i can't imagine that philandering has been relegated to the dustbin of history.

I wasn't referring to garden variety cheating, but specifically to couples cheating amongst each other. There are tons of books/movies where this is central to the plot.

i know, but forgot to mention that some of the cheating i mentioned was of that sort. seems most common in large groups of friends with a fondness for drugs/alcohol.

ime, anecdotal

Seems like disappearing for hours with no excuse to be unreachable is harder than it used to be.

er, make that with an excuse

tbf i am unaware of any secret (or otherwise) couple-swapping

i suspect such a scenario was just as far-fetched back in the day as it is now (and god knows we don't need another 'your friends & neighbors'), and our emerging pervert geniuses no longer quite seize the culture like woody and roth did

tell us more about slow and fast neighborhoods?

The fast neighborhood has a lot of doctors. I hear they're very dirty people.

gbx is that tru

About 3 years back, I went through a period of cheating on my partner--it had very little to do with him or even with the relationship, and a whole lot to do with some transient intimacy issues I was having. I'd gotten together with my guy probably a bit too close on the heels of the demise of a very serious long-term relationship, and as those wounds hadn't yet healed, getting close to someone new was kind of a minefield. Cheating was a release-valve/safety net to deal (read: not deal) with any uncomfortable feelings that my new relationship brought up. He never found out, and eventually I manned up, quit the cheating, and started working out my shit.

I'm still with the guy, which is a good thing, but even years later my cheating haunts me--when things get rough I find myself (irrationally) fearing that HE'LL do the same thing to ME, and when things are good I have that nagging-secret-guilt feeling. I'm occasionally tempted to confess, but I know this would only cause him pain. I've been selfish enough already.

Incidentally, my previous long term relationship ended for many reasons, but primarily because I'd reached a point where I was like, "Fuck it, I don't want to be in love anymore, it's too hard." It's been my experience that when I'm with someone for long enough, eventually I come up against this well-nigh uncontrollable urge to run/hide/cheat/whatever...learning to do otherwise is like ouch, but worth it.

As for looking/crushing/flirting, I'm all for it, as long as you remain respectful towards your partner. There must always come the final accounting: "Baby, you know I'd rather be with you than anyone in the world." I sometimes LIKE to watch my man get his flirt on, and be like, "That's right, ladies, he's coming home with me at the end of the night." Likewise, some of my hottest sex ever has been had after a night of flirting with someone else. It can definitely be taken too far, though...

― blew lagoon, Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:37 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

disappointed in lagoon

I grew up on Long Island in a v upper middle class town and my parents hung out with a lot of rich assholes. The same couples would all be at each others Christmas parties each year where the women would coo over each others new furs and the men would stand around in their sweater vests and drink scotch and talk about work. There were two couples in this circle who were particularly close. They did everything together and their kids were best friends. The big scandal of the town happened one year when it turned out that the lady from one couple had been sleeping with the man from the other couple for nearly 10 years. They got caught when the two couples went on a cruise and other woman saw her pinch her husband's ass. This led to an investigation and a confrontation and both couples split. On couple remained apart and divorced but the other (the one in which the wife had been the one sleeping with the other person) ended up reconciling and getting back together.

Another woman in the circle was notorious for going after the other (all married) men but only the ones who really had money. I know of at least three she slept with.

Anyway, this is all to say that this totally still happens at least in obnoxious Long Island towns among bored rich people.

I almost wonder if that's Woodys slightly warped perception of the world, fantasizing that people just don't notice the bad thing someone is doing.

This could be part of Allen's Bergman fixation.

I have at least three married couple friends who are in open marriages, I wonder if these have become more frequent over the years....

one of them is planning on getting a divorce but still living together in the house!

one of my best friend's wives not only cheated on him, but managed to turn it around on him and say it was his fault and then divorced *him*

― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Friday, February 6, 2015 9:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is going on with some of my extended family right now. Sister-in-law felt her relationship with her husband was so broken that she had three affairs behind his back. Then after she confessed and announced that she wanted a divorce, if I'm understanding everything right, the husband slept with one of their mutual best friends. It's pretty hot actually. Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

I kind of wonder if declining marriage rates + cellphones have made this less of a thing

Also internet porn

i'd be so titillated hearing gossip about this but either a. it doesn't happen in my community of married couples or b. it would be so shameful that no one talks about it if it does happen

i'd be shocked to hear about the husband/wife dynamic discussed above but i'm a naif

Seems like disappearing for hours with no excuse to be unreachable is harder than it used to be.

― bit of a singles monster (Eazy), Friday, February 6, 2015 10:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was a scary thing to read. Not because I want to get away with cheating, but just that I think it can be psychologically helpful to get "distance" from things and cellphones have made it harder

Cheating amongst married couples always struck me as glamorous though. It'd harder now for families to have properly tragic demises that neighborhoods could talk about for years.

My smartphone has an app that my wife can track my exact location (we got it to track our kid as he roams about the neighborhood). I don't MIND particularly (no plans to be unfaithful) , but I had often fantasized about taking a day of ppl and just spend a day hiking at a park or something, I don't know. Get off the grid. But then like, even our older habit of texting each other all day would have eliminated that anyway.

One in seven divorces in the UK is granted as a result of adultery, and that's only the ones that are known and talked about, there's reason to believe that a lot of cheating is never mentioned or discovered, or is kept quiet for other reasons (ie feelings of humiliation). I doubt its on the decline in the slightest.

Facebook in particular has made it very easy to identify and contact and person's partner as well, if you're in a position of wanting to do so, the likelihood of getting caught is probably higher than ever. Having a premeditated and organised affair may be on the decline, I don't know, just because it's so much harder and a lot of people are pretty cowardly, but then again a lot of cheating happens when the wheels have otherwise come off a relationship, so maybe people in those situations just don't care as much about getting caught as they once may have. Then again I think a lot of cheating is basically opportunistic, people do it because they think they can get away with it, ie if they're temporarily in a city where they don't know anyone.

People getting married later in life might be having an effect though, if you're engaged in your late teens or early 20s, there's a lot of emotional immaturity there, and a lot of stuff that's not yet out of your system compared to early 30s or later.

My smartphone has an app that my wife can track my exact location (we got it to track our kid as he roams about the neighborhood). I don't MIND particularly (no plans to be unfaithful) , but I had often fantasized about taking a day of ppl and just spend a day hiking at a park or something, I don't know. Get off the grid. But then like, even our older habit of texting each other all day would have eliminated that anyway.

― how's life, Saturday, February 7, 2015 2:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I go 'off the grid' all the time as it's necessary for my personal mental health. Would never agree to be tracked like that by anyone, not even my wife.

You could play hilarious practical jokes / get revenge with something like that by going to some spectacularly "wrong" places. Kind of like FourSquaring from a fleabag motel in some crazy-ass bombed out neighborhood.

I've long suspected that many smartphone buyers with "family plans" order the "stay informed of your kids' location" feature to snoop on their spouses, not their kids. Of course the mobile carriers would never advertise that feature as such, since the spouse is often present when the phones or service plans are ordered. On my carrier, only one person, the designated account owner, is allowed to add or remove this feature, and the "kids" (spouse) is not informed that they are being tracked by the account owner. Alot of people I've talked to are completely unaware of how this feature works, and are frequently oblivious to the very existence of this capability. When I hear salespeople at mobile phone stores pitching their phones and service plans to a couple, I never hear the sales clerk talk about the significance of which of the two is the designated account owner, i.e., which one can utilize the carrier's optional tracking and reporting service which yields a detailed date/time/place record of other phones on the same "family plan" account.

lol that's a nightmare

How do you possibly keep this on all day without draining the battery anyway? Seems like a way of guaranteeing at least half a day off the grid.

Seems like a way of guaranteeing at least half a day off the grid absolute misery.

I guess there were a couple dudes who worked here who hung out, with their wives, outside of work all the time. Apparently one day both couples announced they were divorcing, and one of the guys suddenly had all kinds of pictures of the other guy's wife and kids on his desk! They're now married.

jeez

these are really boring, nice people who seem completely uncontroversial. the wife is actually the administrative assistant for my department!

fritz peterson style

one of my best friend's wives not only cheated on him, but managed to turn it around on him and say it was his fault and then divorced *him*

How did his other wives react?

thats fucked xps

lol DJP

i assume that cheating still goes on all the time and is no more or less prevalent than it once was. the ways that technology makes it more difficult to temporarily go off the grid are counterbalanced by the ways that technology makes it easier to make covert arrangements - certainly it's a lot easier to do today than in the 50s when you had to whisper in the kitchen at a friend's dinner party or whatever.

ashley madison is really popular too apparently

if craigslist is any indication (hahaha) a bunch of people want to watch your fuck their wives

fmw

haha

boom

fmw, please

the marriage of my maternal grandmother to my mom's stepfather was the result of some freaky 50s couple-swapping--my maternal grandfather married the stepfather's ex-wife. naturally i haven't plumbed the depths of this story too thoroughly. my mom mentioned it all casual a couple years ago and acted surprised when i was like what

Relationship Infidelity: freaky shit or nbd