do you need to refrigerate butter?

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will you get sick if you just leave it on your counter and eat it?

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Butter dish to thread.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

don't refrigerate it! just put it in a covered dish.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

(you'll know if it's too rancid to eat)

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

As long as you keep insects out of it.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

the above is only my personal opinion & I accept no responsibility if anyone gets sick from my advice.

(x-post: nickalicious--that's why you gotta cover the dish! also dust etc)

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i prefer Olivio meself

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

If you and your family has died...your butter might have been rancid.< /Jeff Foxworthy>

― NA. (Nick A.), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

when i was growing up, my best friend's mum never refrigerated the butter and i always thought it was the most unsavoury thing possible (coming from a household of strictly refrigerated margarine).

but now, i see the light. i leave it uncovered, and luckily insects have no interest in it. doesn't go bad either.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

not if your brando

― Chris V. (Chris V), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Leaving butter out in room temp = urgent and key for a lot of things what you might bake (cookies, brownies, etc.).

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

If it's really really hot, refrigerate the butter. Or you will have a puddle. But if not, just use a dish - it's not a hygiene issue. Well I have never got sick from it.

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

It'll melt.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

do refrigerate eggs, though!

― Aaron A., Monday, 16 June 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

they'll hatch!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

And yes it is U & K to take the butter OUT of the fridge well before using it for a cake etc. I have spent many miserable minutes trying to soften butter (easier if you have a microwave).

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

As long as you go through your butter fast enough, it won't go bad. I think the longest for me was three-four weeks to consume one stick, and the butter was still fine. Salted butter will last even longer.

This applies to a lot of foods - people are paranoid about food spoilage, but many foods will be just fine out of a refridgeraor for a few days or weeks, just make sure you eat it fast enough.

― fletrejet, Monday, 16 June 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

unfortunately the microwave threshold for softening butter is so narrow that you get either a puddle at the bottom of the dish or still-too-hard butter.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Only refrigerate eggs if you take a long time to eat them and even then if you are boiling them take them out half an hour or so before or they will crack in the pan.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

You just have to make sure you frigerate it thoroughly, and then it'll be grand.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.frenchbutterdish.com/

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 16 June 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Only refrigerate it if it is melting-butter hot, or if you prefer it. Otherwise, unless one lump lasts you several weeks there is no hygiene issue.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

When its hot like this keep the packet in the fruidge and cut chunks out into you butter dish every day or so and you will avoid rancid butter.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Warm butter and toasted bread is a vital part of my morning breakfast.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

There are people who don't refrigerate eggs, seriously?

― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I have some friends who are amazed I leave the butter sitting out for extended periods of time (weeks). I'm equally amazed they have no spreadable butter sitting around. You can do serious damage to a piece of bread while trying to spread hard butter on it.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Butter I understand. Eggs? No.

― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

This is, like, a major point of debate between me and my roommate. She holds with the warm butter argument and I hold with the "oh my god you're going to kill us all" argument. So now we have two butters -- one in a covered dish and one in the fridge.

― Chris P (Chris P), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

A book about Chris and his roommate.

― NA. (Nick A.), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The sol'n of course is to buy a fridge with a working butter softener.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

In France the eggs aren't even refrigerated in stores.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Eggs aren't refrigerated in UK stores, either. Nor in my kitchen.

As regards butter - I like that Clover stuff. It tastes nice and buttery and it spreads easily straight from the fridge. I sound like a bad advert for it, don't I?

― C J (C J), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

In Canada, most grocery stores don't either, though they are supposed to. They only go in the fridge when they are moved out front.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread seriously makes me want to hurl.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

THEY WILL HATCH, PEOPLE

― Aaron A., Monday, 16 June 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

then you get chicken = win win

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Balut to thread!

Don't refrigerate butter or all manner of Jon Tickle Toaster type madness will erupt (ie Jon's toaster design is only semi-viable in a butter-refrigerating world where spreadability = 0.)

― Cozen (Cozen), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

THEY WILL HATCH, PEOPLE

I don't about where you're coming from but my local chickens ain't gettnig enough loving to hatch no eggs foo'.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes, you people... are so weird.

― Cozen (Cozen), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

A lot of British people keep their eggs in the fridge. A lot don't. Try it Nicole - you might like it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Mmmmm yummy salmonella!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

It's like salmon but ella!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

"ella" pronouced "illa" btw

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't get salmonella from not refrigerating eggs, you asshat. Unless you're planning to eat them raw, but then I'm not sure that refrigerating them does any good if they're infected anyway.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Cheryl Mendelson in Home Comforts says butter and eggs "must be stored in the refrigerator".

The only place I have any room for a butter dish is in the fridge.

― rosemary (rosemary), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I keep my butter on a small (possibly salad) plate that I then place on the top of my small plate stack in the cupboard.

― martha kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I keep my butter in their original single-serving packets just as they were at Souper Salad.

― Aaron A., Monday, 16 June 2003 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Terrific 1910 research into storage of eggs

o Coated with paraffin: 70% spoiled.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

What about the age-old practice of storing sticks of butter unrefrigerated but submerged in a bowl of water, to prevent oxidation and keep airborne buggers at bay? Does anyone still do that? I think it works quite well.

― Paul Eater (eater), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Nobody has mentioned buttersicles. Keep them in the freezer for a tasty summer treat. You'll thank me you will.

― Chris P (Chris P), Monday, 16 June 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

You guys are weridos. Eggs not in the fridge? Melting sticks of butter sitting around the house? I buy my butter they way god intended me to: soft and spready in a tub.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Monday, 16 June 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Egg shells are porous, so if you take the eggs out of their carton and store them on that special egg-shelf in the fridge, they will absorb all the other food flavours there.

― C J (C J), Monday, 16 June 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I grew up raising chickens; my mother still does so, not so much for the money as simply because so many local people want to keep buying them instead of getting them at the supermarket. Fresh eggs don't need to be refrigerated. Eggs from the store, that might've been sitting there for a few weeks after being jostled around in a truck and developing those little cracks you don't see right away -- I dunno. But decent eggs are fine for a few weeks, even sitting outdoors.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 16 June 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

It takes a thread about butter and scattered-at-most ILX presence to get me to admit that I grew up raising chickens. (Once, I stole them all and snuck them into the weird cavern underneath the barn, just in case there was a nuclear war. I think I'd read Fantastic Mr Fox and some Gamma World supplements back to back.)

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 16 June 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to agree on the "eggs dont need a fridge" thing if only because they sell them unrefigerated on the shelf here (aus) so why the need to chill them at home? Mind you I do anyway, but thats for longevity not neccesity.

I have noticed as a rule english people seem more "funny" about eggs, cookbooks and the like always going on about "make sure you cook them properly or you'll get salmonella" etc. No one here does that. Rather strange I think

Oh and on the butter thing I think Ed's suggestion is best (keep most in fridge, a bit out in a dish) - Ive tried keeping butter out and its fine but it seems to get that off taste real fast :(

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

in the us, I don't you would ever, ever see eggs unrefridgerated (except under the hen of course). So perhaps we are more funny than the English.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

It's threads like this that make me thank god I don't have butter or eggs in my house usually. What the hell? I can't think of one good reason to leave either thing laying out in the open, it's not decor you know.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, a basket of eggs on a kitchen bench with some fruits and things could impart that homely Martha Stewart kinda vibe.

Unlike my kitchen, whose only vibe is "this beeatch hates housework".

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

>I can't think of one good reason to leave either thing laying out in the open, it's not decor you know.

As has been stated before on this thread, cold butter is difficult to spread on bread. That is one good reason, and why I started to do it in the first place.

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

instead of leaving your butter out to get soft, you could leave your bread out to go hard and stale. problem solved!

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is this starting to sound like a Viz handy hints column.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

But cold butter becomes uncold butter in the amount of time it takes to do toast up.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

well, has anyone ever gotten real sick from room temp. butter? what happens? death?

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:35 (twenty-two years ago)

You turn into Scott Stapp.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

flatulence

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I've seen butter melt but i have yet to see it do anything then turn a darker shade of yellow. Still tasty on waffles it was.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

As someone said upthread, you know when butter's gone off. It gets a sharp rancid smell/taste. But this doesnt happen within days unless its really hot out. I thought the whole point of a proper butter dish, ie a nice one made from clay or ceramic, is to keep the butter nice and cool without actually chilling it. I mean we're not talking about leaving it sitting on a windowsill in the sun attracting flies... I hope.

PS I have drunk milk a week over its useby, and not even so much as had a tummy grumble.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone tried to refrigerate extra virgin olive oil?

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

there is no try!

― Aaron A., Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Refrigeration is like any other preservative, like salt or dehydration: it's good as a preservative, but it isn't always kind to food (it makes butter and eggs more difficult to cook with -- a 40 degree difference is a real difference with anything finicky; it robs tomatoes of sugar; it tightens the juice of citrus fruit; etc). And, you know, butter and eggs have been around a lot longer than it has ... it's not like leaving them at room temperature is anything new.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever, you big hippie.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not a hippie! I live in INDIANA!

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

good point tep. excuse Ally, she is exciteable. I am reading a book called GOOD FATS. it says eat butter, not margarine, so I am. new thread? what fats are good?

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I am NOT excitable.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I wanted to start a thread on "things wot people are horrified about now that didnt exist 50 years ago" - yknow like not using refrigeration, like um... bathing every single day, like spraying EVERY DAMN THING with triclosan sprays... etc.

Now I sound like a hippy...

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen, if you saw my house, you'd know I was a filthmonger, it's not some germ phobia that keeps my things refrigerated. It just looks crazy sitting out like that! And it'll melt!

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Looks like someone did that thread.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

("things wot people are horrified about now that didnt exist 50 years ago," I mean)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yes you are

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally: meep I for one wasn't suggesting yr some clean freak or anything! :) Maybe your kitchen is really warm? In winter I can leave milk out in my kitchen, its so bloody cold *grump*.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Looks like someone did that thread.

Um Tep? Thats a thread abt Taylor Hanson. I dont think anyone was "doing him" 50 years ago ;)

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

That was the joke! Things that people are horrified about now that didn't exist 50 years ago ... cause, you know ... he's not 50 ... and he looks like a Troll doll with Botox treatments ...

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I should just go back to the blowjob thing.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

you're posting on ILX in the middle of a blowjob?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's just say I REALLY like my new computer desk.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, this thread went to cobblers, didn't it?

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

You use butter to make cobbler.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank you, that's beautiful.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Your desk allows space for a female facillitator? or it came equipped with an automatic blowjob doo-hickey?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry Tep, I'm slow today (TODAY, I tell you), I rooned your joke! *slinks off in shame*

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

or it came equipped with an automatic blowjob doo-hickey?

It does blowjobs AND hickeys! Now thats multitasking!

.. I'll get me coat.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

No no, it's okay cause I got to call him "a troll doll with Botox treatments," and then (just now) I got to say it AGAIN.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

do you need to refrigerate jam (ok, preserves, for the specificity-minded)?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

lord no

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't need to, although I think they taste better cold :) Refrigeration lessens the possibility of surface molds etc. once the jar is opened. Preserves, jams, jellies, etc., were all ways to keep fruit around longer, so they're at least less perishable than fresh fruit would be. I wouldn't want to promise a specific timespan they'd be okay for once opened, but if you were moving across country, for instance, you wouldn't need to ditch them.

(That's the case for nearly any condiment that doesn't contain animal products, basically, and doubly so for the vinegar ones. I used to leave ketchup unrefrigerated because my ex had gotten used to room-temp ketchup when she lived in Germany.)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I know people who refigerate bread, vegemite, peanut butter, coffee, tea... I DONT GET THIS.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

refrigerating ground coffee = wrong wrong wrong and oh so bad

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"We don't mean to brag / We don't mean to boast / But we like hot butter on our breakfast toast"

― Neudonym, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:44 (twenty-two years ago)

refrigerating vegemite is like refrigerating a sealed tin can. pointless.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Jim - agreed! People claim it keeps the fresh taste longer? I just dont see how. Best way to keep coffee fresh - DRINK LOTS :D Then you run out and like, have to buy more.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Arg xpost, agreed on the coffee I mean.

And the vegemite.

And as for bread - ugh cold wet bread. Its like freezing it. Why, for the love of god.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

(Whether or not you should refrigerate something also depends a lot on what exactly your alternative is, btw. If your room-temp is 68F and you have filtered air, just go ahead and throw the fridge away. Well, no, don't, but you know what I mean -- you've got a food-friendly kitchen. On the other hand, if you live in New Orleans, where it's hot and humid and there are zillions of airborne lifeforms from molds to bacteria to little critters I don't know the names of, you need to keep more things out of reach of them. I had to keep bread -- even the preservative-filled grocery store bread -- in the fridge or it'd go moldy in less than a week.)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

the damp air gets into the coffee and makes it manky. according to 'people in the know' (coffee snobs) it should be kept in a dry sealed jar or something.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Crosspost on the bread thing.

... it shouldn't come out wet, though, unless your fridge is very damp.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I find refirgerating bread makes it a dry sorrow. butter or dick makes for an odd blowjob. keep eggs warm by putting them in your pockets.

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

best place to keep coffee, in an airtight container in the freezer. It holds in the volatiles a lot better. Best thing to do though is to grind one's own beans.

Eggs really ought not to be kept in the fridge, (we do but that's because there is space there and not on the counter or in a cupboard, there is always romm forr the butter dish). N., is right about salmonella, if it's in the egg it came from the chicken and only cooking the egg properly will save you. There is not a great deal of Salmonella in British eggs nowadays. They reformed out a lot of the bad practices in battery farming that lead to a propensity for salmonella. If you buy free range eggs there is almost no danger of salmonella.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

That's actually not true, but hey, buy free range eggs anyway you bastards.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 06:41 (twenty-two years ago)

p.s DEFRA explains that the reason eggs are sold unrefrigerated is that EU regulations specify that their temperature should remain fairly constant up to the point of sale, as major fluctuations hot-cold fluctuations tend to cause condensation inside the egg, which can produce mould and EGG SPOILAGE. However, at the same time they do recommend recommend that consumers refrigerate them at home. I guess it's a trade off, but I would have thought that if you eat them within a couple of weeks (the time they might still be sitting in the store anyway) non-refrigeration is maybe better. But this is all at the margins of food safety best practive, as far as I can see. Cook your eggs and you're fine.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder how old supermarket eggs are by the time they get onto the shelves? I have a feeling they may have been hanging around for a week or two already, before they are even put on sale.

― C J (C J), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 07:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, judging by how thick the whites of my parents' chickens' eggs are (and thus how good and tight and unbubbly they are to fry), they can't be all that fresh. Though it could just be that the chickens are fucked up and thus make watery eggs, I suppose.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"it robs tomatoes of sugar"

this is what pisses me off. like, wtf? cold be-fridged tomatoes are like, the worst thing ever.

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The incidence of salmonella in free range chicken and eggs is very much lower than in battery or barn chickens and eggs. It's mainly to do with chickens craping on each other in battery and barm conditions.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 08:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I personally would as it goes really runny & icky if it's left out when it's hot, not to mention the hygiene aspect of leaving it out. Always cover the butter tho, no matter what. euw runny yuk!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 08:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm... I seem to recall that during the salmonella fuss of the late 80s, a study showed that it was actually more prevalent in free range eggs because the chickens have more opportunity to run about and spread it between themselves, rather than being stuck in individual cages.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, this was probably just counter propaganda in the war of words. But I don't think that overall there's any evidence that free range = all smelling sweet and free from disease.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no, but I recall a guardian piece in the last 6 months or so stating that. This does not, of course, mean it's true.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't find any evidence of it. The only chicken bug related research I can see in the Guardian recently was their report of the finding that free-range and organic chickens were twice as likely to carry be carrying campylobacter.

Agriculture minister reports in evidence to standing committee reports that no difference has been found between levels of salmonella in free-range and battery eggs here. I think the third report on salmonella from the FSA is due later this year.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 11:09 (twenty-two years ago)

After I wrote this long-ass post, I see rosemary has already quoted Cheryl Mendelson, but let me quote her at length because I typed all this shit up:

"Butter turns rancid if not kept quite cool. If you regularly keep it cool enough, in fact, you may find that you become more sensitive to rancid undertones in your butter. To ensure that it stays fresh, the best policy is to freeze most of your butter, keeping on a cool refrigerator shelf as much as you will use in the next few days. Be sure to wrap or cover butter well; this also keeps it from being rancid by preventing oxidation. Never leave butter standing at room temperature to keep it soft. If you need soft butter in a hurry, microwave it for a few seconds.

Peanut butter that contains hydrogenated oils may be stored outside the refrigerator in the pantry. Peanut butter that does not contain hydrogenated oils will seperate -- oil will rise to the top -- and will not stay fresh unless you refrigerate it...Health authorities usually recommend you avoid hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. Thus it is probably better to buy unhydrogenated -- and unsweetened -- peanut butter and store it in the refrigerator."

These dictates are determined by both the necessity of preventing pathogens like salmonella and shigella (she goes in detail about how to prevent these threats later on in the book) and keeping the food tasty and fresh for as long as possible.

She also recommends refrigerating cooking and salad oils, all spices (esp. ground paprika, red pepper, and chili powder as they molder easily), soy sauce and vinegar. Coffee should not be refrigerated, but the beans can be frozen.

Also take a look at what the American Egg Board and the "Butter Is Best" website.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Cheryl Mandelson sounds awful prissy.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Cheryl Mendelson received her Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of Rochester and her J.D. from Harvard Law School. She has practiced law in New York City and has taught philosophy at Purdue and Columbia Universities. She lives in New York City with her husband and son."

Surprised? She also just published a novel called Morningside Heights which sounds echt stuffy.

Excuse me while I pass out from the cough syrup I took. Damned cold.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

She wants to refrigerate vinegar? This must be why American fridges are so big.

― Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

We're going to need a bigger refrigerator...

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never refrigerated vinegar, now that's just weird. But I honestly had never heard of people not refrigerating eggs until this thread.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Part of my charm is that I refrigerate vinegar. I will never however put oil of any kind in the fridge.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

From what I read in Fast Food Nation, salmonilla is caused by unhygenic industrialized chicken farming (like Ed said, the chickens eat their own shit) and could be wiped out by reforming chicken farming practices. So if someone has the book handy they can see who Schlosser cites for those facts.

I have no idea who Cheryl Mendelson is but she is a fucking idiot. Refridgerate soy sauce and vinegar?!?! They are already spoiled!

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

You see, this is what happens when you let philosophers run wild syllogistically in the kitchen.

― Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

The biggest problem of salmonella is the eggs lying in shit until they are collected (see the semi-permeability of the egg shell). In the early days of going back to free range chickens, this was a real problem since if the chicken could go anywhere then they could shit/lay eggs anywhere. Battery chickens eggs were caught and collected instantly so this problem was less likely (though stacking th chickens in pens where they were constantly shitting on one another obviously increased the danger).

Aware of this problem free range egg suppliers have new techniques in place to ensure that eggs, when laid, are less likely to be left lying around (in the end hens prefer to lay their eggs in the same place and hence a similar drained run-off designed for the battery industry would still be applicable).

Yes, CHeryl Mendelson sounds like a fool. Butter, as every fule should know, should be kept in the larder.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Salmonella incidence in chickens and eggs in the UK has dropped markedly over the last decade. This has been attributed to the programme of poultry immunisation. Not very holistic, but hey.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder how old supermarket eggs are by the time they get onto the shelves?

Depends on the store's volume. Your average supermarket could be 1-2 weeks. When the eggs come in the back they do so in HUGE skids with all sorts of freakyassed bugs. I hated stocking eggs. Actually I hated everything about working in a supermarket.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

fast food nation = no logo of food, yes?

If so I'm going right off reading it.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris, it's not that at all. It's all about the fast food industry, and more specifically the giants of the fast food industry, and how their tactics have impacted on all aspects of society, mainly in the US, but he does use other examples.

if I ever get my copy back from Mark you should read it.

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

But in a wider sense it very much the other prong of the anti-corporate best seller fork.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Refrigeration of eggs doesn't just prevent spoilage -- it also slows the deterioration into flabbiness of the egg proteins: thus, a refrigerated week-old egg has the youthful body of a day-old egg which has been left out.

If, like N., you hardly even wait to get your eggs home before you eat them, then no-refrigeration should be fine. If you anticipate owning a batch of eggs for a while, though, refrigerating them (in the carton) is not a bad idea.

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

fridged eggs = non crispy eggs, they go kinda rubbery

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure I want my eggs to be crispy.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

batter on the other hand, that's good when it's been fridged

N. do you eat the shells?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh right. My advice doesn't apply if you have access to fresh eggs or to ones that have never been refrigerated. Here in the U.S., storebought eggs are invariably sold chilled, so they've already lost their never-been.

I've been getting amazing eggs from the farmers' market ... laid within the previous day or two, with giant orange yolks. If it weren't for the huge price difference I'd never go back to the store ones.

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

we got some like that from an organic farm in Essex the other week, they were fantastic, especially poached with a drizzle of truffle oil on them /ponce

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Your fridge runs more efficiently when it's full, fwiw.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Not true, your fridge is even more effcient when it is empty. Because then it doesn't have to be on.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

If you want to deep-fry things, you should put it in the fridge (after it's been soacked in batter). I recently found out how you can deep-fry ice-cream.

― nathalie (nathalie), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

N. do you eat the shells?

No, I was wondering if you did.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

only by accident, but rubbery shells are a bugger to crack.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

This is a vaguely unsettling thread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Mm...that was a lovely nap.

American refrigerators are big because Americans are fat pigs. I mean, I shouldn't even have to point that out.

Correction: she says low-sodium soy sauce needs to be refrigerated, and that regular soy sauce can be kept at room temperature for about a month. She also says that although vinegar is said not to need refrigeration, *she* puts it in the fridge because she's found it can get mold on it when kept at room temperature.

You folks have no idea about the depth of Mendelson's mentalism: for example, she recommends a thorough fridge-cleaning on a WEEKLY basis. And here I am thinking I'm doing good when I do it every six months.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

... and i can't believe how long it's been going for!

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

the thread, i mean.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

regular soy sauce can be kept at room temperature for about a month

!! not about three years then?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not a spoliage issue so much as a taste issue.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Obv Cheryl's days are twice as long as us mere mortals' or something.
Matt has been lugging Home Comforts round various rooms of the house for days and he seems to quite like it. Apparently I must be on my guard against this refrigeration mentalism.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

in the presence of small mark s "hundred year old eggs" were routinely discussed as an actual real chinese delicacy

however they are not yet available from takeaways so i reamin sceptical

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Hundred-year eggs are amazing.

Also: tea eggs.

I've been a victim of flaky white soy-sauce mold, so now keep mine in the fridge. I have some ancient vinegars in the cabinet though that are still fine. I know though that if you have mold/fungus allergies you're supposed to beware of undistilled vinegar.

This Ms. Mendelson evidently lives near me: perhaps I can convince her to come over and demonstrate her version of fridge hygiene.

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Undistilled vinegar? Is that infamous non-brewed condiment as sold in London chippies, and found to my horror in my new kitchen?

― RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is why I love this place.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Non-brewed? Explain please.

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Non-brewed vinegar is usually a solution of acetic acid and water, with a little bit of caramel for colouring. Really not worth your while taste wise but v.v.astringent.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

>American refrigerators are big because Americans are fat pigs. I mean, I shouldn't even have to point that out.

Americans are pigs, yes, but it also has to do with food shopping habits. Instead a multiple small food purchases they usually make huge food re-supply runs, buying $200-$300 worth of food at one go.

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Every other day.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Some $100 of which is spent on cold, rubbery eggs.

― Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Cool hand luke to thread.

― Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

sorts of freakyassed bugs

eep.

overall this thread has convinced me never to let a Brit cook breakfast for me.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Not only because of the egg thing, but because they're hamorgasmic.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr 'Freakyassed Bugs' Noodles is Canadian, isn't he?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

That really had nothing to do with the British comment. Freakyassed bugs just make me go 'eep'.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

That really had nothing to do with the British comment. Freakyassed bugs just make me go 'eep'.

I eeped very loudly at the time. And another thing, I've known chicken farms stinked for a long time, but several hundred eggs sitting in the open tends to be pretty stenchy too.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

If you want to deep-fry things, you should put it in the fridge (after it's been soaked in batter)

b-but I don't have a bowl of batter big enough to put my fridge in!

― C J (C J), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I am quite happy to take any American to an egg aisle of our supermarket and see if they can smell anything. Eggs rarely smell unless opened.

You'll be telling me next that you keep ice-dcubes in the freezer. Pshaw.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 09:05 (twenty-two years ago)

FFN is *so* the no logo of food, in that it's all about consumer power being more important that political power (which is possibly true, but annoys me something chronic). it did make me somewhat smug reading it, thinking "a-ha you yanks may run in fear of our unrefridgerated eggs, but at least our slaughterhouses aren't as bad as yours"

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Fact - 50% of animals that go into our slaughterhouses get away. Its all about that English fair play thing.

(It also means that when the cattle evolve a decent brain and revolt the English will be low down on their list for revenge).

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

You guys are weridos. Eggs not in the fridge? Melting sticks of butter sitting around the house? I buy my butter they way god intended me to: soft and spready in a tub.

-- That Girl (dallasdeadgir...)

That Girl and I are of the same mind here.

Eggs not in the refrigerator and butter (or margarine) out in the open is just asking for trouble right here in Texas. Especially during the summer. Even with the air conditioner running. You guys want to lap up all that quickly spoiling food, go right ahead. I'm sticking with my nicely 20th-century refrigerated food.

And tubs of margarine are perfect for spreading. They are what complete a platter of pancakes for me.

Oh yes, and my refrigerator/freezer combo needs to be big because I love to have lots and lots of produce on hand to munch on, I go to warehouse stores to stock up on meat, my household drinks soda, flavored waters, bottled water, orange juice, and tap water put into bottles, we need a top shelf cleared for insulin and those little catsup packets you get from fast food places, and we need space to fit our leftovers, dishes of Jell-O, watermelon slices, etc. So there. :oP

― Innocent Dreamer (Dee the Lurker), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Butter != margarine though! Different rules apply!

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I've been to Texas. It isn't hotter than a chicken ass. Eggs can handle heat as long as there aren't any cracks (which there often are, though, in storebought ones, even if you can't see them).

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(Okay, non-storebought ones, too. That was phrased oddly. There are frequently small cracks in storebought eggs because of all the jostling and so forth: there are often cracks in farm-bought eggs because they're fun to throw.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

(For instance, you can play a game by tossing an egg into the midst of a bunch of chickens and place bets on which chicken eats it first! Not that I ever did.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Tep, what is yr expert opinion on hanle y's claim re toast in this thread:

Eggs : New Found Glory or Bad Company?

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a great thread! There's even a mention in passing by masonicboom of some M*mus hijinks.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

what, person eggs?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

It isn't hotter than a chicken ass.

I would hate to watch "Chicken Run" with you.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes but Tep, eggs aren't stored beneath a chicken's ass TO KEEP THEM EDIBLE FOR LONGER PERIODS OF TIME. duh.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Hanle y's obviously way off: toast is a pad, not a tampon.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but they still survive the chicken ass for a long while and remain edible, whether that's the point of the ass or not.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(I am clearly not making Dan any more likely to watch Chicken Run with me.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

There are few times in my life that I am ever rendered speechless...

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

...and apparently this isn't one of them.

― NA. (Nick A.), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(I was just saying that, too).

Butter in the fridge, ya, unless I need to cook with it, then I'll take it out a few hours before, eggs, well, hell, *I* don't eat them, put them wherever you like.

I never did throw them into a herd of chickens to see which one would eat it first, but I did fall for the "hey Aimee, throw this egg up into the air and if you yell 'fly and be free', it'll hatch and the chicken will fly away" ruse laid on me by my brother when I was about 4. I got through about a dozen eggs before I caught on.

I was a stupid child.l

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

do u?

― jhøshea, Monday, 15 October 2007 23:07 (seventeen years ago)

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