fuckthesouth.com

Fuck half the south. Fuck half of america... both Dem and Repubs.

how is this NOT correct?!?

I hate to say it, but if I have any sense of dread in the future, it's because of comments like fuckthesouth's and their yes-men.

(xpost)

then again, virginia is only an election or 2 away from being a blue state.

Probably the same point as arguing against satire?

MY WAR...!!! I THOUGHT YOU WERE A FRIEND, BUT YOU'RE NOT!!

that said, i am also not unpleased if certain southerners get just a little taste of the anti-yankee shit that they fling at US for a change.

Surely you're not saying there's been little anti-southern sentiment up til now?

THEY HAVE A POINT! SHUH, NED.. YOU'RE SUCH A HUMANIST!

They're just as much if not more to blame for this fucking mess.

secession now!

It's November 2004 in Iraq

Okay, so what's more effective, then?

im tired of it too, but i also fear for my life.

(xpost)
I think Ann Coulter believes that she believes what she says.

Alex is the Crypt Keeper!

..

Think how infuriating it would be to be a liberal in the South. Not only do you live near a bunch of half-wits who voted for Bush, but your neighbors think you're an imbecile for being liberal, and the rest of the country who share your views still think you're a moron because you live in the South.

Do you think liberals who live in South Carolina said after the election, "that's it; I'm moving to Delaware." ?

HIGH FENCES. OH SNAP.

In the meantime, according to the Washington Post, if he was distraught so over the election it was probably the last straw:

The Georgia man who killed himself at Ground Zero was upset about President Bush's reelection -- but his biggest problem may have been his double life, a source said Sunday.

Andrew Veal, 25, was engaged to be married to an Iowa college student, whom he was supposed to see at her sister's wedding in Seattle this weekend. But Veal also had a girlfriend in Athens, where he lived, sources said.

When police found his body Saturday morning, they found a note to his girlfriend saying she was "too good" for him, a source said. The note also included a reference to Bush's victory, the source said.

but yeah if you read recent ilx you'd think liberals are all a bunch of ignorant assholes.

http://home.earthlink.net/~johnsonia/webimages/IQ.jpg

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/07/blue_state_to_reds/

Somebody go track down that one thread where some guy was saying he was gonna vote GOP 2004 because he was so sick of liberal smugness.

Do you mean Voting for Bush as a means of attaining ecstasy

and daddino, don't be so cowed that anything that seems naughty and fun might be a gop trap. this shit is funny, so laugh!

i'm not about to start advocating carpetbombing the south or anything, but acting like southern bush supporters "just don't understand" and can be taught to vote lefty via, i dunno, nascar tickets and teabagging is condescending and won't get you anywhere. the nu-left mantra should be "fuck this shit, and fuck you, too."

(Or so I'm told.)

Assuming I am Mr. Van Driesen would be a ridiculous mistake, sir. But since your solution seems to be to tell everyone to fuck off, can I ask how that's going to help, you know, *change* things? Like the Congress, say, in 2006? Such as illustrating to voters how support of a Republican candidate who votes for things that have caused damage isn't such a good idea? And keeping up the pressure until that election point, and as time continues?

The only explanation I've seen offered for all this is that venting is good. Great, you've vented. So what's next?

but they are being really annoying

i'd be interested in hearing yanc3y defend that last sentence though

so what's next? i see several possible solutions, all of which should work hand in hand:

1) form a christian coalition for the left; moveon was a start, but planned parenthood, sierra club, etc need to be heavily involved as well. the point of this org: to mobilize lefty voters but also to -- perhaps more importantly -- form an organized far-left concensus, which should do two things: 1) move the mainstream slightly leftward and 2) make whoever we nominate for office -- no matter how liberal they may be -- seem moderate. doesn't the christian coalition do this for bush? and why can't it work for us?

2) create a new lexicon. i've been all over this for ages, but we can no longer be the art-house party while the g.o.p. gets to be the blockbuster. we have to PITCH better. we need concise, catchy phrases to put forward the platform. the sorts of things kids will turn over in their mouths cuz they're fun to say. hollywood we have a job for you!

3) play the media like patsies. keep tabs on what bunning, coburn, etc do in their homestates and in the senate, and email the newspapers and cable tv outlets daily letting them know, to try to get the stories legs. the gop has its echo chamber to generate news, but why can't we just contact newsrooms directly? their sympathies are with us, after all!

4) don't just monday-morning quarterback. what am i personally doing in the wake of 11/2? i've been seriously considering moving back to va to run for office. i've been researching this quite a bit, and i'm still not sure whether i could win or even if it's plausible, but it's something i'm considering. and if i stay in nyc, i'll found an organization/volunteer/donate $$$/etc.

as for "fuck this shit, and fuck you, too," lemme explain: pollsters have made a helluva hullabaloo about how bush voters prized "values" which is code for save fetuses, kill fags, me me me. and while some in the democratic party have been arguing we have to win over those voters, I DON'T WANNA BE VOTING SIDE BY SIDE WITH THEM EVEN IF MEANS I WIN. some people are fucking WRONG and we can't try to appeal to them, even in a half-assed backdoor way. FUCK THEM.

Politics is inherently pandering and condescending so perhpas we can fucking get over ourselves a little bit?

(xpost: Yeah Alex, that's basically what the little voice is screaming inside of me that still gives a fuck despite my best attempts to crush it.)

Our message that we think they're all idiotic hicks?

Southern Conservativism explained from the inside

Power comes first; the American public has shown that they won't vote for what the liberals think is in their best interests, so the liberals need to figure out how to trick the American public into voting from them AND they need to do so without regret, self-recrimination or self-flagellation.

A large misinformation campaign needs to start up that focuses on abstract issues that people care about. Liberals need to start running with the following talking points:

- The Republican party wants to institute a state religion and that state religion is born-again Evangelism; all other forms of Christianity are to be phased out. Going along with this is a ban on all non-religious holidays and alcohol.

- The Republican party wants to revitalize the American economy by turning the industrial sections of the country into domestic analogues of third-world sweatshops, complete with zero health care.

- The Republican party wants to cut taxes by lowering the minimum wage, decreasing the amount of money you have to spend on your family and decreasing federal and state benefits.

- The Republican party wants to segment American cities AND towns into class-based ghettoes where only people of a certian income bracket are allowed access to the best, most desirable aspects of the city.

- The Republican party wants the lower classes to have as many children as they can as soon as they can in order to replenish the disposable sweatshop workforce.

- The Republican party wants to remove welfare and other government assistance programs such as HUD and Stafford loans in order to keep the sweatshop workforce in its place.

- The Republican party endorses lying as a virtue.

Someone better versed in Republican political theory can come up with more effective and more creative things but there's a starting point for the purposes of our discussion. All Democratic opposition should be filtered through these types of "Repbulican want to eat your children" talking points. Also, the Democrats need an army of liberal Ann Coulters who are willing to do and say anything to make Republicans look unreasonable and evil.

The liberal viewpoint must also embrace the inherent hypocricy of being closed-minded about being open-minded and assert that a) there is no cognitive dissonance in that stance; and b) "I'd rather be a hypocrite than a liar."

To clarify, (I keep expressing myself poorly) I agree that the left must be pro-active, personal and adaptive. But what message are you wishing to spread to people - this? Obviously this is something the left have to work out, which I'm sure you/they/we can do.

Dan - How can liberalism forget it's purpose and just go for power - then you just end up with the same situation we have now but a different name for the people in power - there is no point in gaining power if you are just going to do the same thing - I know that is not what you're advocating. Realpolitik has it's place, but people need to remember why they are leftist - and it has everything to do with helping people.

i think everyone's taking this just a wee bit too seriously. This link is basically just angry catharsis, but ultimately meaningless. I mean, c'mon...the election is still UNDER A WEEK OLD. Some people are still bitter/in shock/incredulous. I don't think these sorts of rants (or many of the threads that have been sprouting up) are in any way surprising. Moreover, there'd have been just as many of the same variety of venom had Kerry won as well. There will be a time for calm, reasoned strategy and an attitude adjustment for the years ahead, but I think some people are still reeling from the election.

Do the Democrats need to lie so much?

And questions like this aren't going to restore civility any time soon.

So, basically, until there actually IS a liberal media mouthpiece for catchy Democratic one-liners that appeal to America's senselessnessabilities, it may be hopeless. If it IS to manifest at all, I guarantee the place it will begin will be THESE HERE INTERNETS.

Yes, I know that this thread isn't going to be put onto leaflets and sent to the electorate (if we were going to do that, I could think of much better threads to use) - which is why I don't particularly mind this thread, even if I don't really find it funny. Like it or not, each of us is only going to be a small part in the left that will emerge this century, none of us, I imagine, will be it's spokesmen. So on that level, you can take yourself too seriously. on the other hand, we are all parts of that dialogue, and my hopes for that dialogue often make me a bit disheartened by these sorts of things - partly because I get the impression that some people aren't joking as much as others, and partly because I think that if enough people choose hate over tolerance it could destroy that dialogue forever.

Tolerance of an adminstration that prides itself on being intollerant?

As far as I'm concerned, I sincerely don't think there's anything wrong with feeling angry and expressing it. I'm not saying you should take up arms, but why bite your tongue strictly for the sake of being polite to people who gave their rubber stamp approval to four more years of of an administration that seeks to disenfranchise those who don't adhere to their agenda?

Fair point. However, I find it exceptionally difficult to be polite to someone who honestly thinks the Bush Administration is taking the country in the right direction.

"We're tired of fighting for you by fighting against you," though, just seems so appropriate.

I just have a hard time respecting someone who thinks that the invasion of Iraq was a good idea, or that abortion should be illegal or that stem cell research is immoral or that Gay marriage threatens the very fabric of society, etc. etc. etc.

There's a fundamental lack of access to these people. They are ideologically occupied territory. They don't trust the media. They don't trust Hollywood. They don't trust people on either coast. They don't trust people who don't go to church... etc.

The conservative, lexicon-creating, media machine have these folks walled off and there is a HUGE credibility gap waiting for anyone attempting to reach out. Unless you see them at services every Sunday, you can consider your political reality non-transferable.

It's time to quit pandering to these people and offer up a real alternative to the 45%-50% of the other people who are pissed off because they can't get a damn omelet on a Sunday afternoon because the restaurant is packed with hordes of church-going families eating after-service pancakes!

The conservative machine has never offered an ounce of respect to the left-leaning establishment and seems to have WORKED QUITE WELL in their favor.

Also: secede.

Southern people, in my esteemed opinion, are the best people in America. Maybe the only true Americans left. Tho I rilly do dig some of you Californian Westy Lefties too sometimes

this thread is boring

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

HYUK HYUK
LOL

etc.

Most left-leaning people have been in churches at many different points in our lives.

Maybe the Right should evolve beyond the need for an insitution that espouses an exclusionary foundation of guilt, fear and intollerance.

Most left-leaning people have been in churches at many different points in our lives.

I endured fourteen years of Catholic education.

That is exactly how cults work - isolate and terrorize so that the individual will is subordinated to those of the leaders'.

What these people need is deprogramming.

My world is collapsing.

PS, there's a difference in being dismissive and being fed the fuck up. At least with the latter you tried for a while.

xpost PS, there's a difference in being dismissive and being fed the fuck up. At least with the latter you tried for a while.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I like Dan's list of talking points, but I think it could be presented more in the positive than the negative: flip it around and say what the Democrats are for. Steal a page from Gingrich and write their own Contract With America, 8 or 10 nice declarative statements ("We will protect the freedom of worship against any efforts to mandate a state religion," "We will foster scientific inquiry, protect the environment against short-sighted corporate exploitation, etc. etc."). I'm not much for the what's-wrong-with-the-Democrats whinging, but I do think they could do a better job of defining themselves (and defining the Republicans in the bargain).

This reminds me of how somepeople brand anti-zionists as anti-semetic.

-The Gipper

I never said or implied that.

I just draw the line at having them take the morality defined through that religion and forcing me to live by it. This is where the big issue of not allowing religion to steer government policy comes in. Apparantly no one has ever heard of the "minority rights" part of "majority rules, minority rights."

http://ilx.p3r.net

Actually, I don't give a shit anymore if my viewpoints are compatable with theirs or in their self-interest. I'm more interested in my own self interest now, since they apparantly don't give a shit about mine.

There are more of them who vote, ergo if you want someone in power who will do want you want you're going to have to trick some of them into thinking that what you stand for is something they want to vote for.

"Acting like church is something you grow out of"

I never said or implied that.

Alex in NYC did.

Would it be assuming too much to say that the most indignant Americans on ILE in the wake of the election have been white heterosexuals and to say "WELCOME TO MY FUCKING LIFE YOU CONDESCENDING ASSHOLES; HERE'S HOPING YOU DON'T LET THE ABSTRACT HOPELESSNESS KILL ALL OF YOUR DREAMS"?

Alex in NYC did.

I didn't say Church was something you grow out....were it only that simple. I only that it's something you SHOULD grow out of.

No, I'm just going to support secessionist movements for the civilized parts of the country. I'm through with them. They honestly need our economies more than we need their sense of entitlement and religiously-based morality, so I'm all for just cutting them off. It's high time 'liberals' stopped rolling with the punches and got fucking angry and fed up and did something about being taken advantage of for so long. Misidrected efforts at helping rural areas backfired and should be a lesson to let pigs wallow in filth (not to imply anything derrogatory, because for god's sake we can't do that on ILX!, just drawing an appropriate analogy).

So again, I don't want to win these people over. They clearly don't deserve my respect (or tax dollars) after they actively attack my way of life through their voting agenda.

US VS THEM is inexcusable horseshit and not what we're supposed to be doing as a country but at least Dan is entertaining and his points about what the Democratic party needs to do SORT of make sense even though it wouldn't actually work in the real world.

do you remember the campaign ads even? "JOHN KERRY AND LIBERALS IN CONGRESS DID THIS AND JOHN KERRY AND LIBERALS IN CONGRESS DID THAT"

vs. Kerry's ads which pointed out mistakes that W made specifically and noted things he would do better.

I don't see how you can even begin to say that we're instigating the "US VS THEM" attitude in this country.

But guess what? It's not like the conservative right was going to let up anytime soon after it's gotten them so far. If anything I think we need a counterbalance until things meltdown. I'm becoming terribly pessimistic about the future and really don't understand how any sort of reasonable way of going about things is going to fix things before they're irreparably broken.

Polar bears will be gone in less than 100 years, cheap oil (and our way of life) is already running out, if the arctic continues to melt the icebergs will distrub the jetstream and bring about another ice age and WE CARE ABOUT FAGS GETTING MARRIED?

WTF, people. WTF.

Seceding (which isn't going to happen) will stop this because...?

-- latebloomer (posercore24...), November 7th, 2004.

Hahahahaha

Thank you.

But there's some kind of tiny little chance that if the places producing most wealth secede and leave the rest of the country to fend for itself, it won't be able to continue in the same patterns and will either shrivel up and die or be forced to find better ways of doing things. Meanwhile, once free of the ball and chain of the rest of the country, the more progrssive parts could quickly impliment policy that would help ready them for the coming problems and possibly even avert (or push off) when they occur (MA already is working to make sure at least 10% of its energy is produced by renewable energy sources by 2010, I believe).

Long-shot, I know, but it's more hopeful for me than imagining the country plunging along with its current environmental/energy policies and just suddenly going to shit when they don't work anymore.

Considering the instability, violence, and oppression that extremists on either side had engendered, the founders recognized the dangers of imposing religion on men and women's conscience. I fear that many Americans no longer understand the lessons taught by more than two hundred years of European and North American history.

Actually, can I criticize the article that kicked all of this off a little bit?

Fuck the South. Fuck 'em. We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no, we had to kill half a million people so they'd stay part of our special Union. Fighting for the right to keep slaves - yeah, those are states we want to keep.

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of the Civil War, weren't the southern states making all* of the food for the country as well as driving the GNP with tobacco and cotton crops?

* Rhetorical hyperbole

ilx sneering at religion doesn't exactly equal the left sneering at religion, and I'm not even convinced that ilx "sneers" at "religion" per se. Skepticism about the social effects of hidebound belief systems (Christian, Muslim, whatever) isn't just a matter of elitist sneering. And the organized mainstream left, or at least the Democratic Party (which may or may not be left depending on your definition, but whatever), goes out of its way not to sneer at religion. The first born-again Christian president was a Democrat. I don't think "sneering at religion" is really endemic to the American left. And the fact that it's exactly the kind of thing Fox News analysts say makes me even more doubtful that it's true.

How much food is grown in these progessive cities or the states that house them? How much more money would have to be diverted to basic sustenance (and therefore be unavailable for progressive energy reform)? Do you recognize that there is a basic, unavoidable logistical nightmare standing in the way of secession which basic economics hint would work itself out in FAVOR of the areas you're running away from rather than the areas you want to stay in?

CALIFORNIA

Actually, can I criticize the article that kicked all of this off a little bit?

Fuck the South. Fuck 'em. We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no, we had to kill half a million people so they'd stay part of our special Union. Fighting for the right to keep slaves - yeah, those are states we want to keep.

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of the Civil War, weren't the southern states making all* of the food for the country as well as driving the GNP with tobacco and cotton crops?

Actually, the industrial revolution in the north was driving the economy.

cotton = stagnated

xxxxxpost

― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Monday, 8 November 2004 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw an interesting episode of This Old House this weekend about the thousands and thousands of run-down barns in New Hampshire being converted into luxury homes. Not that I seriously support the idea of secession, but if the need was there, New Hampshire, New York, Mass, etc would certainly support it's own farms. It'd probably be a good thing.

So basically, if the blue states seceded from the red states, the blue states would suddenly find themselves in a situation where every bit of foodstuff that they nomrally eat outside of cranberries, wine and soybeans has tripled in price regardless of where they get it from. A nation in this situation cannot help but drastically reduce its standard of living, while the red states stand to make a killing without even increasing their agricultural output.

Now, also keep in mind that the red states gets something like 80% non-urban attraction the United States has to offer as well as the birthplaces of American popular music, plus they control the mouth of the Mississippi and most of the rivers and highways.

(giant xpost: Are you people seriously suggesting that people who have spent thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars educating themselves aren't going to view being told that they have to run a farm in order to survive as being a slap in the face and a demotion in standard of living? Who exactly do you think is going to be running these farms?)

http://www.mindspring.com/~jbprtndr/rockhall.jpg

Most farming operations in the midwest are barely solvent. They produce far more food than we need. And as it was stated above, WE COULD STILL GROW OUR OWN FOOD IF THE NEED AROSE. (Esp. California, it already grows quite a bit).

PS, we paid for those highways. We can stop paying to keep them up.
And good luck next time the Mississippi floods. Don't look at us for aid. The Mississippi is hardly the vital shipping link it used to be (not to say it's not important, but it's really more important for the economies of the red states than any blue states).

Also, wouldn't Canada give us GRAIN?

um xpost who is this "we" paying for the upkeep of highways? I'm pretty sure that's a state job, unless each state's highway and transportation department is like some shadowy character really controlling the giant pyramid illuminati nazi robots.

Maybe Teresa Heinz Kerry will give us blue states her money?

No, the highways are kept up with FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS, which have been proven to largely flow FROM blue states TO red states. It's a huge chunk of the Federal Budget, and it gets distributed to highway departments all over the country. However, the biggest winners are the red states who get to pave their roads with pork barrel legislation thanks to their dominance of congress.

Quaker money = chocolate, no?

ALSO, LET'S NOT FORGET MAKING ASININE COMMENTS THAT REALLY HAVE NO RELEVANCE TO THE ISSUE AS A WAY TO DISPROVE ITS POSSIBILITY!

xpost thanks gypsy mothra, I'm too lazy.

Also, my xpost was meant to say, "'backassedly'! What an excellent word!"

also, terribly sorry for the misunderstanding, then. I'm so used to people pulling things like that out when they don't have anything else that I just sort of assumed. Again, my bad.

unspeakable!!!!

W, this is fantasy bullshit. you sound like you're from fucking fragglerock. i can't believe you even have the nuts to treat this like a serious topic of debate.

I'm hoping that they're so fed up with our 'commie pinko yankee shithead ways' that they'd just let us go, since some of them STILL want to go seperate ways.

Keep in mind that we're talking some of the strictest weapons laws in the country, these areas...

The way the military is structured now, the idea of it splitting evenly is laughable. If we got lucky, we'd get the people stationed at bases in the blue states. The people who live here sure as hell ain't gonna do shit.

But really, what I'm saying here is that anyone who'd seriously consider a secession argument (especially, since we're apt to bring up "perhaps you forgot that in the civil war...", knowing that the first one went SO WELL for the secessionists) is basically a total asshole. Or what Dan said, but much more rudely.

It is now Day Four of our advancement toward Old Des Moines. My head is filled with thoughts about our brothers here in the South. How is that we free-thinkers of Uptown Minneapolis be so liberated with our indie rock while Iowa continues to turn its nose up to the fine arts with such profane acts like Slipknot? It is clear that these people are weak-minded, having voted for General Bush instead of the truer hero, the Great Senator John Forbes Kerry. We will back take this once great state, one burning church at a time, until our brothers can see the light of restaurants not owned by Tricon, Inc.

Your loving partner,
Chance

In any case, there's plenty of people who I'm sure would work farms if there were jobs working farms. Farming has largley disappeared as a major industry in New England, but that doesn't mean it can't resurface. Additionally, some kind of survey would need to be taken to look into arable land and land which could be reclaimed, etc. It's not a process that takes place overnight, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible. You seem to also miss the other comments about 1) California
2) Canada would likely be quite friendly to us and sell us food at prices that aren't gouging
3) California

And again you set in with the stereotypes about an army. Many of us don't think that there are any good reasons to go to war, however, if a reasonable amount of support for a secession movement could be garnered, people might find something actually worth fighting for. Imperialism of any sort (be it for oil or 'democracy,' is not something we really value. War to legitimately preserve freedom is much more plausible to us(see also: WWII, and before you say it, yes there were protestors, but nowhere near as many as later wars have seen--people were far more supportive).

Ok, I'm done then.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I knew I shouldn't have changed my email address.

Finally, how are you getting the food from California to the East Coast?

FOUR-WINGED CHICKEN!!!

how about those dodgers?

I think that the 40-50% of the people who didn't vote for Kerry in the majority of the blue states would probably cause an impetus to "reasonable support".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
don't you think?

god, this is where I wish I could post the I luv eggs song here.

Seriously if we're going to go ahead and try to return New England to a more agriculturally friendly state*, what exactly is that going to do to our industrial juggernaut economy that is supporting the rest of the nation right now? How exactly do we balance this? I'm pretty sure most people aren't going to willingly give up their overpaid Verizon job in NYC to go till the land in Islip, and even if they did, who is now sustaining the industrial jobs?

* Note: I'm not saying they dont' produce any crops there, I mean I've seen a bloody pumpkin farm.

I'm sorry, this post is semi-serious sounding.

(x-post)

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS HERE TOO! YOU WOULDN'T ASK THE BUSINESSMEN TO FARM! THE DEMAND WOULD BE THERE AND THE JOBS WOULD BE THERE AND PEOPLE WOULD GO TO GET JOBS!

HAVE YOU HEARD OF UNEMPLOYMENT? IT'S PEOPLE LOOKING FOR WORK, MANY OF WHOM DON'T HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION!

Also, I'm talking about reusing suburban and rural land, not putting a farm in the middle of a bunch of goddamned factories.

At least pay attention.

(xpost yeah, like you're going to get college students to go to NEW HAMPSHIRE for spring break!) (Yes yes, I know, CALIFORNIA!)

Q: Who benefits the most in a bad economy?
A: The people with the most money.

Q: In a modern first-world economy, do you make more money in agriculture or in snooty business?
A: Snooty business.

And Adrian ... shut up, I'm trying to cheer myself up so I don't off myself.

http://www.travelsinparadise.com/australia/sydney/pictures/zoo-red-panda-01.jpg

Doesn't exclude snooty agribusiness.

gypsy, they will be re-neducated.

Actually, I put money on farming becoming an increasingly cool thing should this happen, especially if people new they could make money doing it(i.e. no longer importing from the south/mid-west states. It's not like there aren't already farms all over the mid-atlantic and new england states. My guess is they started disappearing because crops were cheaper from outside states and the land became more valuable for suburban sprawl expansion. But to think there are no farms, to think that NY's fresh produce comes from outside of tri-state area is silly. The milk I drank growing up was from NJ. The best tomatos in the world are from NJ. The best eggplant etc. The world won't end if Peter Luger can't get it's steaks from the midwest.

Bingo. Also, massive subsidies for the midwest to help provide jobs since they had very little to offer otherwise.

http://bestmessageboardever.com/uploads/post-5-1099958191.jpg

baby sloth wants 2 b friends w/u :]]]!!!

http://pantransit.reptiles.org/images/1998-09-27/redpanda.jpg
just for j/k about the hate!
luvs!

if i'm gonna be TREATED like a liberal elitist snob, then maybe i should start ACTING like a liberal elitist snob. fancy a latte, anyone?

I often feel the same way about NJ. I want to tell them to come hang out on the Jersey shore and then see what an elitist cultural mecca we are.

but would you HAVE a latte w/ jesus? and does jesus prefer starbuck's or billy bob's greasy spoon?!?

dan, isn't that kinda what we ILXors have been DOING on threads like this for the past week? and you've been complaining about it?!?

TAKING SIDES: CAFFEINE VERSUS SEX WITH THE SON OF GOD!

I'll stop complaining once you guys end up on TV.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=5652

He's this jackass..... http://www.humaneventsonline.com/img/2_smallpersonimage_8.jpg

..you may recognize him as the talking anus that infects many a news-chat show. May be be eaten alive by angry swarm of boll weevils.

What makes me uncomfortable in all this red state/blue state talk is that people like me who happen to be liberal in a red state just don't seem to count. We get written off because we're surrounded by conservatives.

I live in Kentucky. Kentucky went 60/40 for Bush. But 40% is a fairly
sizable minority.

My family, my husband's too, have lived here in Kentucky since the early
19th century. We have very deep roots. Is our only hope to pull up and
move to Massachusetts?

I was raised a Southern Baptist but so were Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al
Gore.

Most of my family are old-time Roosevelt Democrats but I have two brothers
and some young nephews who voted for Bush. They can be pretty patronizing
but they're not evil.

I don't know. I worry that this red/blue dichotomy is as oversimplifying
as the black/white one.

Sherry C.

I wonder what hstencil and mary think of the idea that they should go farm the fucking land instead of getting jobs with their college education. Yay unemployment, now go farm some fucking fields.

Retard.

Yet, there are 38 (mostly red) states today that may be inclined to adopt, let us call it, a "Declaration of Expulsion," that is, a specific constitutional amendment to kick out the systemically troublesome states and those trending rapidly toward anti-American, if not outright subversive, behavior. The 12 states that must go: California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Maryland, and Delaware. Only the remaining 38 states would retain the name, "United States of America." The 12 expelled mobs could call themselves the "Dirty Dozen," or individually keep their identity and go their separate ways, probably straight to Hell.

what do you hand-wringers and finger-wavers think of THIS? and why does this loon want to keep washington, oregon, pennsylvania and minnesota as part of the USA whilst casting all other blue states adrift?

* BUSH USA is predominantly white; devoutly Christian (mostly Protestant); openly, vigorously heterosexual; an open land of single-family homes and ranches; economically sound (except for a few farms), but not drunk with cyberworld business development, and mainly English-speaking, with a predilection for respectfully uttering "yes, ma'am" and "yes, sir."

* GORE/KERRY USA is ethnically diverse; multi-religious, irreligious or nastily antireligious; more sexually liberated (if not in actual practice, certainly in attitude); awash with condo canyons and other high-end real estate bordered by sprawling, squalid public housing or neglected private homes, decidedly short of middle-class neighborhoods; both high tech and oddly primitive in its commerce; very artsy, and Babelesque, with abnormally loud speakers.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

"This bickering is POINTless..."

I think it's fucking stupid. I don't quite see how or why I would feel any differently...?

Other than that, this thread is stupid.

"(giant xpost: Are you people seriously suggesting that people who have spent thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars educating themselves aren't going to view being told that they have to run a farm in order to survive as being a slap in the face and a demotion in standard of living? Who exactly do you think is going to be running these farms?)"

guess what? people spend thousands of dollars a year to go to college and major in AGRICULTURE. THEY ACTUALLY GIVE DEGREES FOR IT. these people go to a university for four years to become better farmers. also, they now have tractors with motors so yoked oxen are rarely used. butter churning numbers are way down as well. in some areas, being crowed awake by the call of the rooster has been replaced by alarm clocks. that's right, cityfolk. those farms have ELECTRICITY.

Actually, if you look at the 'purple' map, it's clear that Illinois is much more 'purple' than Indiana, which has many areas that are clearly red. Iowa appears to be even more purple than Illinois.

Moreover, the suburban 'collar counties', particularly ones north and west of Chicago also have a number of conservatives - conservatives with money.

Yes, Emily, we all know this, except those people generally don't then choose to settle in Edison, NJ. They go to places where, you know, they have farms.

Seriously, I mean this with all respect, but this is now the third thread you've basically come in and lambasted people on some weird "anti-hick" tip you have perceived...but they're never the people actually displaying this attitude, you never seem to be yelling at the people who are talking about secession or the people who want to blow the "red states" off the earth, you're taking nit-picky offense to some offhanded comments about, like, Wall Street bankers settled in the Northeast not wanting to become farmers. Seriously, dudette, we're on your side here, chill.

Virginia? Hello?

I'm sure the billions of Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists and the like love knowing they're not even hated - just ignored alltogether.

I have got to start coming up with better metaphors.

___________________________________________

* Please do not literally shoot anybody. The last thing we need in this country is another martyr.

http://www.werenotsorry.com/TNPHOTOFRM.htm

Eh?

http://www.werenotsorry.com/images/bush1.jpg

Needless to say, she'd look better if she took off that stupid t-shirt.

Gotta love the "Whooptee Doo." look she's got.

(haha, Ned.)

SO AUTOMATICALLY THAT MAKES HIM A BUSH PATRIOT! LAZY LIBERALS SITTING DOWN! MLK ALWAYS WANTING TO SIT AT DINER COUNTERS,E T C.

I don't even know where to start with this one.

SO GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!

So basically, the above is a long-form, polite version of "Fuck you, Emily; you don't know my life."

xpost

Speaking of puppies, did you guys know that a non-profit called 'Hugs for Puppies' was raided by the FBI?

you can't have furniture if you spent all your money on guns!

becuase those liberal pussy fags want to take your guns away, so you've gotta buy them now before they're illegal!

One never knows what the ottoman and the sofa are up to when one is away.

http://www.werenotsorry.com/images/mike.jpg

If you're going to own rifles or shotguns, you gotta have a gun rack (a stuffed deer head's antlers can also do the trick.) Leaning your shotgun up against the door jamb is sooooooo Granny Clampitt.

If this site is in fact a joke, they sure do have a really dry sense of humor:

http://werenotsorry.com/images/NYC.jpg

I mean, they did re-elect Bush. This lovely lady illustrates my point!

http://www.werenotsorry.com/images/pwn3d.jpg

I sooo wish I had thought of this - this site is a hoot. Imagine all of the paypal payments rolling in from dumb freepers.

http://www.werenotsorry.com/images/titanic.JPG

WE'RE GETTING EVEN BIGGER TAX CUTS!
JIM IS GOING TO GET THAT SECOND YACHT HE ALWAYS WANTED, AND DEBORAH MIKE & DEBORAH ARE GOING TO BUY THEIR THIRD HOUSE (THIS ONE IN THE HAMPTONS!) THE BOYS AT THE COUNTRY CLUB ARE SURE GOING TO BE JEALOUS NOW!

wow, thanks GOP stooges!
I wasn't sure what was wrong in my life, but know thanks to you I know that I'm a self-hating Islamofascist apologist!

Boy am I red in the face right now!

NEW YORK, HOWEVER, ALREADY APPARANTLY FORGOT. DC TOO!

Yes, I think someone's having a little fun with them.

OMG WE GOT MORE LAND THAN U!!!!!!
HAW HAW LIBERAL SCUM!

obviously new york city has

shame on you, new york city! for voting for the terrorists that did this to you!

...

http://www.werenotsorry.com/images/C384.jpg

LIBERALS MAKE SPACE JESUS CRY

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW

WE'D RATHER FORCE OUR CULTURE UPON THEM
EVEN THOUGH WE'RE IN NO DANGER OF THEM FORCING THEIRS UPON US

FAIR FIGHT!

boo hoo

because most neocons aren't smart enough to use photoshop

'Cause of the whole 'Love thy neighbor' shit from back in the day.

I'm sure the real neocons would be horribly insulted at being confused with the freepers they're taking advantage of.

like take advantage of freepers.
and yeah, these people don't look smart enough on average to understand photoshop either.

Do you notice that the photoshop section of that website is mostly really poorly done (and some don't even involve photoshopping!??)?

Coulter/Hannity/O'Reilly have been known to lie. Take away the lies, and you have... um. Name-calling. (Aside from specific government entities, I don't recall Moore -- or Franken or Stewart -- going specifically after "conservatives" in general like the right goes after blanket strawman "liberals".)

This is digressing real severely here. Sorry.

xposts

To be fair, Rush Limbaugh's weight has certainly been brought up a fair number of times by certain um not to nice left wing folks.

http://www.spinsanity.org/

search for 'moore'

you're welcome.







and I'm not saying that his being fat would make him any less credible
I'm just saying that there are certain health issues with being that overweight. There are certainly a ton of lardassed freeper midwestern shitbags, no doubt. They should also get out of their fucking cars and walk a little more. Also cut down on the fast food.

I mean, jesus, they're making america look fat (hello, over 50% of population is obese now!).