The NEW Los Angeles Thread:

The NEW Los Angeles Thread:
Disney hates kids.

and here, to give this a little momentum, are four arguable observations about Los Angeles:

1) Compared with the other places I've lived, Los Angeles seems a place where people are looking for reasons to dislike you more than for reasons to like you. It's abysmally easy to end up on somebody's bad side.

2) Though there's a lot of great culture around (albeit lacking some history), it seems to me that the dominant notion of culture - Culture - is based on a silly set of consumerist politics. For instance: I was guest at a place recently and I asked for a glass of water. I was, in all seriousness, offered New Zealand Artesian water, French Mineral water (sitzy or not), something else I forget, and melted Canadian glacial spring water. When I said 'tap water's fine,' there was a noticable coming-together-but-excluding-me in the room dynamic ... apparently I'd outed myself as un-- something.

3) Because of the hodge-podge of the city's racial/ethnic population, we tend to expand the reach of our labelling from the archetypal (nerdy-xbox geeks, azure-eyeshadowed townie girls, pretentious goths, etc... etc... ) to more visible criteria: Mexican teens, white hipsters, Koreans, Hasidic Jews, which serves to place a lot of people in really funny groups they don't truly identify with. What I mean is: in a more homogeneous place, say White-Anytown USA, group-labelling can be fairly specific and often accurate: Voc-school guys who do 2-cylinder racing, Overachieving perfect girls with hard-bearing parents, the unruly conservative Methodist kids. But here? Labels are so generic that they lose any sense of meaning.

4) The best way for me to think of this place -- and I've said this before, apologies if it was here -- is not as a single map with gerrymandered demographic lines drawn throughout, but as a series of half-complete transparencies (each representing a social/economic/cultural group) laid atop one another that together define a whole city. And the most overwritten 'common' areas always seem to be in the worse shape, as if we're being punished for interacting.

(Can we also use this for running FAP ideas like for instance next Friday?)

I don't know about that. My girlfriend, having come from Seattle was surprised at how friendly everybody is in LA but I guess you're talking about something different. I do think that this surface friendliness is what sometimes prompts outsiders to think the people here are "phony." I suppose being friendly to someone you may not actually like could be considered two-faced or something but I think it's the only way to be. In NY they're rude to your face and proud of it. In the south they pride themselves on their friendly "southern hospitality". Yet in LA people are considered to be overly sunny airheads just for showing a little bit of common friendliness. Anyway, I digress. Perhaps there's some other reason you're finding it too easy to end up on somebody's bad side.

we're not rude, we're "direct"! maybe people like being bullshitted, i dunno.

Also known as: being polite.

e.g. without any malicious intent, you'll piss somebody off by walking too slowly down the aisle at Ralphs, end up with some nutball flashing high beams behind you at a stoplight, or being singled out at the gym because you're using weight somebody else wants to use. If you dare to defend yourself at all you'll end up in a shouting match. Maybe it's not people "looking for reasons to dislike you" as I said above, but here people "generally find bullying more acceptable."

If you observe closely enough, you can label people just as accurately as you could in "White-Anytown USA" - the racial/ethnic make-up just adds another dimension. But I can see your point. Outside of your own racial/ethnic group, you won't necessarily have the ability to do this, for a number of reasons. But, I think it's a little easier for people who grew up here to be more specific.

and xpost:

I don't think I'm guilty of labelling people anymore than anybody else is. But I sorta like taking control of my prejudices, if that makes sense.

And I don't (of course) use the labels above when I interact with people. But they're indicative of the really over-generalized snap catagorizations my brain [and I sorta doubt that I'm alone in this] makes in the millisecond before my intentionality takes over.

But I guess I don't want to get into an argument about whether I'm more prejudiced than other people. I definately don't use the labels I indicated above in any real way, but I was sorta just trying to illustrate my point.

Sorry if I came off like a dick.

I'm not sure which specific areas you're thinking of but could it be that the areas in the worst shape are often neighborhoods where "white hipsters" move in for the cheap housing prices? So you have mixture of races and classes as the area goes through the process of gentrification?

Maybe part of it's naivete about vehicle damage and road repair, but doesn't it seem that most of the roads travelled by the most people are the least well-upkept? Note: I really might be asking for something that's impossible given the overbearingness of traffic here.

And just to head off anybody who thinks otherwise: I really like it here. I plan to continue living here, if possible.

The roads. Lord the roads. They are a mess aren’t they? Why do you think everyone here has a car that is less than 3 years old? Big SUVs? You thought they were a class statement? No, they’re a necessity. We have pot holes that can swallow a volkswagon. Your car’s Suspension is just gonna get THRASHED driving on the bad roads. Also, if you’re too low to the ground you can’t see what’s ahead due to the SUV ahead of you with the tinted windows. Too many cars, not enough roads. Trouble is, when can they close them to fix them? Total gridlock due to roads closed for repairs leads to road rage and shootings. The city works dept fill them up with spit and some asphalt and hope for the best. The number to call (they promise w/I one week it will be fixed) 1-800-POT-HOLE (not a joke). I would love to do a FAP sometime with the LA ILX crew.

Yeah, this thread is a great idea. I need to think about your 4 points and get back to you later, Remy. I think there might be something to your point number one, though I wouldn't go so far as to say it leads to bullying. Just general aloofness. I don't know, though. I don't get out much.

I honestly have never found New Yorkers to be rude. And I lived there for 12 years. I just never understood that comment. Unless louder/with a borough accent = rude. I don't think it does. Remember the scene in Terms of Endearment (sure you do!) when John Lithgow tells off the bitchy checkout girl by saying, "Well, Ma'am, you must be from New York!". I think I saw the movie in my hometown and everyone cheered. Why? Where does this attitude come from?

Oh, a personal note--my students (and their parents) are sooooooo much better this year. The nightmare is over! Tomorrow we're going on a field trip to the Exposition Park Library on Vermont and 36th Place. You know, the one that always smells like piss?

I must see this Brothers Grimm film. I cannot attend DJing on Saturday alas!

xpost Hi Ned, welcome back.! I think I'm available for something the following weekend.

Yeah, it's just a stereotype like the phony LA people.

oh, walter, your being sarcastic, i didnt realise that, before?

I always think I can, but I'd assume Im wrong 50% of the time.

You realize you're saying this to Spencer Chow?

i've lived in a zillion places in the span of 29 years and found that overall americans are not especially nice people, not even superficially sometimes. why new york gets singled out for rudeness i'll never know.

Retrospectively:

http://lacuny.cuny.edu/committees/eis/fall2002/duckyshotorig.jpg

1) Compared with the other places I've lived, Los Angeles seems a place where people are looking for reasons to dislike you more than for reasons to like you. It's abysmally easy to end up on somebody's bad side.

this makes sense if you define "people" as "people who moved out here to get into 'the industry' and who tend to socialize with people who can help them with their 'careers'".

if you define "people" to include everybody (huell howser, chaki, me, half a million koreans, half a million people from long island, etc), then it makes no sense at all.

Seriously. You should get a job in the film industry! You're very good at projecting, Remy!

Yeah, like my Dad from China and my Mom from Arkansas, LOL!

And for the second time on the thread: I'm sorry if I offend anybody. I'll be the first to admit that I've only been here a year, and that my crummy financial situation prevents me from seeing and doing as much as I'd like. But I really don't think I'm projecting -- my personal unease here (and my newness is mostly to blame) does not take the same form as the social unease I feel moving from neighborhood to neighborhood.

What I mean is: I don't think that considering the city's idiosyncrasies and difficulties (some of which are unique to LA and some of which aren't) signifies I dislike it here or think it's better or worse than other places. But I do feel they're worth discussing, because to me LA seems much more in-progress than a lot of other cities: contemporary, plastic, and organically evolving (sometimes). And I'm fascinated by it -- especially coming from an old-world (err, w/in the US) place on the East Coast -- 'it' being 'some of the things I sense vividly as being components of the city's character.'

the tendency to want to be with similarly minded people is pretty universal. if you see it as being more pronounced in la, that could be because a relatively high percentage of people are recently from somewhere else, and they don't have the support networks that they grew up with.

as far as an inferiority complex, i don't see it at all. i'm sure that it exists in people who aspire to be rich industry types, but i don't run in those circles. i spend a lot of time with a group of people who came out from texas within the past few years, and none of them appear to be dealing with any inferiorty issues.

This was going to be another "why do all the threads about LA devolve into etc etc" post, but that phenomenon itself is kind of interesting.

I mean, it's not just the (sterotypical, fine) residents. I can't think of any city more publicly preoccupied with itself than LA, more concerned with what defines it, how it came to be, where it's headed... Are there shrinks for cities with identity issues? This thread could only happen here.

Anyway, forget it Remy. It's Chinatown.

chicago has more of an inferiority complex than l.a.

minorities have a history of getting fucked over everywhere.

chinatown, huh.

The population of Miracle Mile probably rolls over completely every three years.

i feel very much at home in la, but being "municipally tended-to" isn't really part of that. i'm priveleged in lots of ways and take many things for granted.

Anyone whose family has lived in LA for multiple generations, which includes a broad cross section of classes and ethnic groups. Anyone who has lived in LA for a while, loves it, and feels at home.

that they're accurately represented in government and municipally tended-to (these all being things I consider crucial to a sense of 'home')?

That's some pretty strict criteria though isn't it? Does every American who feels disenfrancished from the federal government really lack a feeling of "home"? I mean, even people in the most war-torn parts of the world can still feel a connection to the place they live can't they?

(xpost)

-- Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr_...), August 5th, 2005.

Haha nice I get a shout-out within the 1st ten posts. And I've only read 10 posts so far but...

I'd really have liked it if Jody hadn't mentioned EnWhySee at all...I mean c'mon, enough. Step off already, this is going to be our century =)

Los Angeles is the Nation's Biggest Market for New Urban Development
Tuesday July 26, 9:30 am ET

SYDNEY, July 26 /Xinhua-PRNewswire/ -- Leading business advisory firm KPMG today released its Population Growth Report 2005, a landmark international study of demographic trends aimed at business.

According to the key finding of the report, there is no other city in America quite like Los Angeles when it comes to population growth or to the business opportunities that flow from the urban development associated with that growth.

"The five counties comprising Los Angeles attracted 260,000 new residents over the 12 months to July 2004 or more than double the number added to the next fastest growing city, Phoenix, and almost four times the number added to the nation's largest city, New York," said report author and partner in KPMG's Risk Advisory Services practice, Bernard Salt.

"Population growth supports demand for new housing and for new retail property and there's more of this in LA than in any other town in the US," added Mr Salt, an advisor in business demographics.

The report also found that Arizona's County of Maricopa embracing Phoenix added more people than any other single county over the year to July 2004 making it the nation's No. 1 growth county.

"Phoenix is an important destination for lifestylers who prefer golf in the desert rather than the beach in Florida," Mr Salt added.

Florida's Flagler County north of Daytona Beach increased its population by 10.1 per cent over the 12 months to July 2004, making it the nation's fastest growing county in percentage terms. "Towns growing rapidly off a small population base often present opportunities for new business that have yet to be discovered by others," Mr Salt said.

Other key findings:

Fastest growing counties: 19 of the 20 fastest growing counties in terms of the absolute growth in population over the year to July 2004 were located in the sun states of Florida, Georgia, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and California. Only Chicago's Will County bucked this national trend. Will County is growing rapidly because of urban overspill from Chicago.

Fastest declining counties: 16 of the 20 fastest declining counties in terms of the absolute population growth over the year to July 2004 were located in the North-East. Many comprised the central core of larger urban masses where the population is transferring to fast-growing areas beyond the urban fringe, such as the shift underway from Chicago's central Cook County to the fringe's Will.

Sponge city Sioux Falls: The population of South Dakota's Sioux Falls increased by 52 per cent to 198,000 over 27 years to 2003. The number of people in all age groups in Sioux Falls increased over this period. But in nearby Miner County 50 miles north-west of Sioux Falls the population dropped by 35 per cent, and across most age groups. This pattern was repeated in many counties adjacent to Miner. It's almost as if Sioux Falls is soaking up the population of the surrounding prairie. Business needs to be aware of "sponge cities" across the mid-west which are growing strongly often at the expense of smaller farmland communities.

Bachelors and bachelorettes: The report measures the number of single men and single women aged 25-35 in all counties at the time of the 2000 census. Across much of the mid-west there was an over-supply of young bachelors (especially in North Dakota) whereas in the South there was an over-supply of young bachelorettes (especially in Mississippi). These figures have an impact on the rate of household formation, or non-formation, in areas where the numbers are out of kilter. In Hardee County Florida there are 5.69 bachelors per bachelorettes whereas in Dallas County Alabama there are 1.43 bachelorettes per bachelor.

Ride the subway of love: At the 2000 census there were 106,000 never-married men and 104,000 never-married women living on Manhattan Island. However in one Lower East Side neighbourhood there were 2.41 never-married young men per never-married young woman. Tell the girls from Sex and the City that this is Manhattan's bachelor hotspot. The bachelorette hotspot was a precinct in the Upper East Side where there were 2.45 bachelorettes per bachelor. The bachelorette hotspot is linked to the bachelor hotspot by the Bronx/Brooklyn Subway lines 4, 5 and 6. When you next visit New York perhaps you might like to ride this "subway of love."

The Leaving of Loving: The American county to have suffered the greatest percentage loss in population over the 12 months to July 2004 is the County of Loving in south-west Texas. This county lost 11 people or 17.5 per cent of its local population in this year, leaving only 52 Lovers left in Loving.

About the report

Population Growth Report 2005 is the signature annual demographics report prepared by KPMG for business. This year's report covers the United States, Australia and New Zealand.

Note to editors

The report is available in electronic format. Please contact Anita Poppi on the details below if you would like a copy.

Report availability and access to author Population Growth Report 2005 is published by KPMG in Australia and is available for purchase at a cost of AUD595 including GST. This annual report is sold to business to assist with strategic planning. The report's author is KPMG partner Bernard Salt. See also www.kpmg.com.au .

Our downtown is booming like nothing else in the country. SO many buildings being built, the skyline is going to be thrice as large by 2009.

(also: HAY. U. hav 2 come up here when my friend N--- does to help me cope U KNO HOW HE B)

dr. g you should cum but only if Orbit brings you as her dinner. date.

A-list hipster as a barameter for Hollywood reviatilazation

Old star, blazing scene
The Roosevelt has rocketed back on the A-list. And, as with any good celeb bio, it comes with plenty of drama.


By Gina Piccalo, Times Staff Writer


S. Irene Virbila on Dakota in the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel
Hollywood's revamped Roosevelt puts out a call for an eclectic crowd




There's been no end to the dishy tidbits filtering out of the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel in the weeks since the ranking hipsters discovered the gorgeous but long-forgotten time capsule.

The arrests, the equipment seizures by LAPD's vice squad, the reported Fourth of July antics in Lindsay Lohan's suite, the news of Bruce Willis chatting up a coed in a cabana room, even Courtney Love's recent drama there have helped, as controversy often does, elevate the hotel to near-superstar status in just two months.

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Word-of-mouth on the Roosevelt is traveling like a flash fire, moving even faster than the crews finishing the hotel's rooms, restaurants and salons, faster than the official publicity generated by the hotel's team of expert trendsetters led by hip hotelier Jason Pomeranc and scene maker Amanda Scheer Demme. So fast, in fact, that it invites the question of just how much mischief is too much?

The Roosevelt's rebirth comes as Hollywood Boulevard reclaims the club scene that, for years, has been dominated by the hyper-styled venues on Sunset. There's just enough residue of Hollywood's gritty recent past to lure the young crowds so sated by the superficial that they'll devour anything with a whiff of authenticity.

"Even the bad publicity helps feed into the mythology of the place," says Rose Apodaca, a regular at the hotel, West Coast bureau chief for Women's Wear Daily and co-owner of the Beauty Bar and Star Shoes bars in Hollywood. "We jokingly say the scene at the Roosevelt looks like a scene out of [the HBO show] 'Entourage' and it does in a way. But I think there's something kind of fabulous about that as well."

Eleven days ago, paramedics rushed into the hotel to transport Love to the hospital, prompting conflicting reports over her condition. She told the New York Daily News that she "must have fainted" after two Diet Cokes. Police initially reported she'd overdosed on drugs but later declined to elaborate, identifying the evening's victim only as "Courtney L.," citing confidentiality issues and victim identity protections. A Los Angeles Fire Department spokeswoman said an ambulance responded to a call from the hotel of a drug overdose, but its records didn't name the person transported.

During a raucous July 4 weekend, a young man reportedly jumped from the second-story balcony of Lohan's suite, nearly missing the pool. (The actress has denied the incident.)

Since June, uniformed vice officers twice have marched through the hotel's exclusive bar, the Tropicana, seizing turntables, CD players, mixers and speakers. Demme and party manager Jason Alexander have been arrested on noise violations and general manager Brett Blass has been cited as well. (Only Blass faces charges, a penalty of six months in jail or a $1,000 fine.)

"This comes down to a money issue," says LAPD Lt. Manuel Romeral. "It's big bucks for these parties. And sometimes establishments are willing to overlook the fines…. In comparison to what they're making, it's probably not that significant."

Hotel guests, meanwhile, have complained loudly on several gossip blogs and in the press that Demme's strict guest list often excludes them from the Tropicana, even when they've rented a room or booked a wedding there.

Although hotel management says all guests can now access the pool — and the party carries on with digital music files played from a laptop computer — these early incidents hit a nerve. Hollywood's honorary mayor Johnny Grant, who has occupied the hotel's 13th floor for 14 years, says that when Demme was arrested "there was a lot of applauding when they hauled her off."

These early troubles are just the result of instant fame, says Stephen Brandman, chief operating officer of Thompson Hotel Group, the company managing the Roosevelt. "When we opened up, we didn't expect the kind of crowds we opened to," he says. "It took us by surprise…. You have the good and you have the bad and that was just part of the growing process."

Demme, to her credit, is earnest about resolving the noise issues at the Tropicana, which she co-owns. But she can't resist chuckling as she recalls the two hours she spent at the police station, handcuffed to a bench alongside "gangsters," awaiting her $100 bail. "It was hard to take myself seriously," she says.

For all the melodrama — perhaps in response to it — the Tropicana is still packed every night and 92% of the hotel's 300 rooms were booked this month, doubling room revenues from a year ago, says Brandman. One guest hopes to rent out the $3,500-per-night penthouse for a year; others have relocated their offices to the poolside "cabana" rooms.

The Roosevelt hasn't been this stylish since the 1940s. Its Spanish Colonial style, the midcentury Palm Springs feel of the Tropicana, the lobby's tiered fountain and painted beam ceiling and the hotel's rich history as the site of the first Academy Awards in 1929 continue to lure event planners and L.A. clubgoers, who have tired of manufactured glamour. To them, the hotel's Hollywood pedigree renders it instantly hip.

Douglas Fairbanks Sr. and Mary Pickford were among the hotel's original investors. Carole Lombard and Clark Gable retreated to its penthouse and Marilyn Monroe posed in a suntan lotion ad by the pool, the bottom of which was painted by David Hockney in 1987.

"It's going to have longevity, whereas other things open and burn out really fast," says David Rodgers of the hotel. His event company, Rabin Rodgers Inc., organized a July 20 party in the Roosevelt's candlelit lobby to promote Citizens of Humanity jeans.

This renaissance began when real estate developer Goodwin Gaw and his partner, David Chang, who bought the hotel from Clarion Hotels in 1995, partnered with ICM agent Michael Gruber in early 2003. At the time, the Oscars had recently moved to the Kodak Theatre at the Hollywood & Highland shopping complex and the neighborhood was poised for revival.

Gruber, now the co-owner of the Tropicana, helped bring in designer Dodd Mitchell, whose work includes L.A. hotspots such as Dolce, Katana and Falcon, and Demme, widow of filmmaker Ted Demme and a well-regarded music supervisor whose films include "Mean Girls" and "Garden State." Gruber was also key in the hiring of Pomeranc's Thompson Hotel Group, which handles the 60 Thompson hotel in Manhattan's SoHo and the Sagamore Hotel in Miami's South Beach.

Demme has emerged as the most public face of the new Roosevelt. She's at the hotel every night and personally approves the Tropicana guest list and oversees events in the lobby. A strong-willed entrepreneur, she "moved in here like Gen. Patton leading an invasion," one insider recalled. But to Tropicana guests, Demme is also personable and warm, comfortable in her skin, greeting everyone with bear hugs and kisses and "Hey, baby!"

"My job has been to brand and bring in and change the clientele and bring Hollywood and its tastemakers to this place," says Demme. "There's definitely a formula to it."

Demme's crowd may come to Hollywood for the Roosevelt, but they'll find several exclusive clubs around the corner once they get there. In the last year, Geisha House, a sushi restaurant and sake bar co-owned by Ashton Kutcher, the Cabana Club and Mood have opened in the neighborhood within a few blocks of one another. Plans are underway to open a W Hotel at the corner of Hollywood and Vine in 2008.

"In a lot of ways [the Roosevelt's success] is definitely reflective of the evolution that's occurred along Hollywood Boulevard and within Hollywood nightlife," says Apodaca. "It's spiraled upwards into a different kind of scene."

By fall, the Roosevelt will house even more star attractions. Prominent Southern California chef Tim Goodell and his wife, Liza, who recently opened the restaurant Dakota at the hotel, will add a hamburger stand called 25 Degrees. The couple are also revising the hotel's room service and poolside menus. Demme will open another, more exclusive, club named Teddy's and New York hairstylist April Barton, whose clients include U2 and Elvis Costello, will cater to VIPs from a space overlooking Hollywood Boulevard. A spa, a gym and newly updated rooms are in the works.

On a recent night at the Tropicana, the music was retro rock and guests leaned into one another on cushioned lounge chairs and chatted like old friends while they awaited designer Tracey Ross, who was celebrating her birthday. Around 10 p.m., Lohan perched near an outdoor fireplace while Gisele Bundchen lined up at the bar and Nicole Richie enjoyed a private dinner at the pool's end. Herds of other long-limbed blonds with fashionably mussed young men in tow decorated the space in between veteran scenesters Kelly Lynch, Michael Des Barres and New York nightlife impresario Amy Sacco.

"If I'm in my 20s, I want to stay here," says Gruber. "If I'm in my 30s, I want to play with the 20-year-olds. If I'm in my 40s, I want to think I'm playing with the 20-year-olds."

anyway, now that i've actually _read the thread_ ...quick thoughts:

Hm. I agree with Nickn (" because there is no one group that dominates. In other words, I think many of the small subgroups would have much more of an outsider complex elsewhere. ")/Dan/Walter on this one Remy. In Los Angeles practically every group imo, can "feel at home," even beyond the obvious examples. There is Irangeles. There are of course vast stretches of Korea and Mexico and Cenral America within our city's parameters. Aren't there more Armenians in Glendale than Armenia? Really, there seems to be a community for everyone, from industrial Cambodian weekend warriors to old time Jewish orthodox aunts who religiously walk to their temples every Friday with their bearded menfolk. Even if you are a peeling faded granny-tranny, you can certainly call Benito's your "home" - where you will meet at least 11 other granny-trannies more peeling and more faded and fabulous than you. The only group I seem to have no tolerance for are transplanted maladjusted EnWhySeers who habitually whine that LA isn't like their hometown -which is precisely why it rules - but still never move back since the weather and easier lifestyle has spoiled and fixated them (that + the opportunity to exploit the career opportunities here). LA is unique with the combination of its size + decentralization, but it also pretty inarguably represents every aspect of humanity "out there" unlike most other metropolises, and as far as banding together goes...doesn't that happen naturally with like-minded foax, as others have said?

I also don't really think that having representation in the gov't should be included as an essential component within the "feeling at home" factor, for how many of the say, Iranians even in Iran (or even Americans in America today) feel a satisfying or even adequate amount of civic representation when it comes to the state? They fled here by the thousands when right after the Revolution when the Shah was deposed, and take full advantage in LA's status as a media capital along with its social liberties, which enables them to produce all of those Iranian teevee stations that they then beam via satellite "back home." That will always be the motherland, but this is the new home, the second home - tommorrow's home. Especially when they are Ben Kingsley fighting Jennifer Connelly for one (the book was set in Malibu, no?) !!!!

However I agree with your brief statements about "racial tension" and I already pontificated abt that on the LA Metro thread.

But I still disagree with its premise, kind of strongly. Which is why I don't want to include it on the future thread (will I ever really build it? Haha).

From the Wall Street Journal (but he supposedly lives in the Valley, yea? I've heard so..)

Extreme Makeover: Los Angeles Edition

By Joel Kotkin
Irvine Senior Fellow

The Wall Street Journal
August 25, 2004

This city known for makeovers is getting ready to try a big one for its downtown. On Grand Avenue, near the much ballyhooed Disney Hall and Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, city leaders earlier this month announced plans for a $1.2 billion redevelopment project complete with massive retail, residential and commercial space. The goal, as seen by billionaire Eli Broad, the plan's biggest booster, would be to transform now doughty Grand Avenue into something of an Angeleno version of Paris's elegant Champs Elysees.

The cosmetic surgery doesn't stop there. Down the road from downtown's Bunker Hill, where most of Los Angeles's '80s-vintage office towers sit, the city has embraced another huge billion-dollar-plus entertainment, hotel, retail and residential center that would serve as a draw for the less-cultured crowd. Envisioned as a "Times Square West," this confection would service the convention crowds who now largely ignore the central city.

For years the relatively modest scale of L.A.'s downtown has made many boosters feel decidedly second rate. Mr. Broad, for example, repeatedly asserts that "every great city has a vital core." Until Los Angeles has such a center, the argument goes, it can't hope to compare not only with Gotham, but even the likes of Philadelphia, Chicago, Boston and scores of other burgs.

On the surface both plans do have their merits, remaking in sharp contours what is now pretty lumpy stuff. But don't be surprised if the inevitable raids on the public purse to help finance some parts of these constructions run into serious opposition from the city's sprawling neighborhoods.

After all, these communities, some of which are a full hour's drive from downtown, already have poured hundreds of millions of hard-earned tax dollars over the past few decades to finance a subway system, failed malls and markets, high-rise construction and public office buildings. Yet to date, for all the effort and hype, downtown has failed to become anything remotely close to the acknowledged business or cultural center of the city.

Nor does the case for such an extreme makeover seem to be as compelling as the elites like to suggest. After all, Los Angeles is not like Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cleveland or Fort Worth, cities that have decided that fancy new buildings, preferably a museum or concert hall, are crucial to get them acknowledged by the world as cool and cultured places.

Los Angeles could not be better known, setting the pace in everything from pop music, sportswear and ethnic food fads to video pornography and grim mystery novels. Over the past century the largely centerless city has evolved from a rough cowboy town to Tinsel Town and is now one of only two cities in the advanced Western world -- New York being the other -- to rank among the world's 20 largest metropolitan areas. Los Angeles County, home to over 10 million people, is not only the undisputed global capital of popular culture but North America's largest port and biggest manufacturing center.

There's also a particular irony in L.A.'s new penchant for downtown monumentalism. From its earliest era, Los Angeles's planners and visionaries decided that they were going to build a very different kind of city. Instead of placing their emphasis on one dominant center, L.A. was to be a multipolar metropolis, with multiple centers surrounded by their own residential communities.

Today such thriving independent cities as Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, West Hollywood and Pasadena boast their own vital "downtowns," cultural institutions, restaurants and promenades. Many neighborhoods within the city limits -- from Sherman Oaks and Studio City in the San Fernando Valley to Leimert Park in South Los Angeles and Koreatown in midtown -- also enjoy a thriving street and cultural life.

Like the city itself, these districts appeal because they do so without much contrivance; those seeking manufactured experiences should drive an hour or so south to Disneyland, instead, where the art was first perfected. The West Coast's largest seaside visitor attraction, Venice Beach, represents the polar opposite of inspired planning; part circus sideshow, flea market and body builders' promenade, it embodies the essential vitality and freedom of the Southern California spirit.

To be sure, this expansive geography has its downsides -- the pitiless traffic being the most prominent example. But it has hardly turned Los Angeles into a cultural desert. Many of the county's most renowned oases for the arts -- from the Pasadena Playhouse and the Hollywood Bowl to the Huntington Library and the Getty, the Norton Simon and the Los Angeles County Museum of Art -- have thrived far from downtown.

Rather than skulk in shame, L.A.'s elite should realize that their endlessly evolving city constitutes, as one observer put it, "the original in the Xerox machine." The shape of the 21st century -- whether in Houston, Tokyo or Bombay -- generally takes L.A.'s sprawling, decentralized form.

Most tragic of all, the focus on redeveloping downtown via giant quasi-public projects also may mess up the already burgeoning revitalization of the area. Over the past few decades, as much of the corporate business community -- including its two leading banks, First Interstate and Security Pacific -- fell to mergers or quietly fled, downtown has spawned, with little help from City Hall or the civic grandees, a series of specialized industrial districts, ranging from toys and garments to flowers, jewelry and food. Now constituting over 6,000 businesses that employ more than 50,000 Angelenos, these areas are testaments to American urban culture, most particularly the creative force of immigrant-led enterprise.

City Hall and its mandarins may bemoan the lack of street traffic around their downtown, but if they want to see crowds, they need only go to Santee Alley, in the garment district, which is about a 40-minute walk away. A magnet for tens of thousands of Los Angeles's widely diverse people, the area possesses a commercial vibrancy that exceeds New York's Canal Street and approaches the frenzied capitalism of Hong Kong's Mon Kok.

Nor is all of downtown's allure provided by the immigrant masses. Led by pioneer developers like former New Yorker Tom Gilmore, downtown has seen a rash of office-to-apartment conversions that have led to an invasion of the black T-shirt set, attracted to the area's edgy charms. Similarly, many old abandoned industrial and warehouse districts, such as the area adjacent to the Little Tokyo section and nearby Chinatown, have developed into thriving, impromptu arts communities.

Such organic, street-by-street success is what makes for vital neighborhoods, distinguishing truly great cities from ordinary wannabes. Any Podunk can build a stadium, sell its newborn for some Frank Gehry or Rem Koolhaas eye candy, build fancy lofts and shops for the nomadic rich. In contrast, what downtown is already creating on its own -- flourishing commercial hotspots, chaotic consumer souks and effortlessly cool artist colonies -- constitutes the essence of urban genius.

These phenomena should be regarded as the basis of a new future for downtown, one that is unique to Los Angeles, the world's great multipolar city. Encouraging these grassroots developments makes much more sense than expending a couple of billion dollars on creating another monument to ersatz urbanism.

Copyright: 2004 The Wall Street Journal

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/edluva7/PICT0043.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/edluva7/PICT0044.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/edluva7/PICT0047.jpghttp://i.askask.com/2005/02/DSC_0148-2-big.jpghttp://www.slumdance.com/brian_flemming/my_photos/view_from_window/images/skyline1_big.jpghttp://zev.co.la.ca.us/pictures/2003/1Gehryhttp://californiaimage.com/images/wallpaper-los-angeles-800x600.jpghttp://www.csupomona.edu/~urp/master_files/photos/other/la_skyline.jpghttp://www.tombridge.com/photos/hollywood/hollywood.jpghttp://www.tombridge.com/photos/hollywood/vista.jpghttp://www.metro.net/images/detail_rl_f26.jpghttp://www.santamonicacollection.com/images/3rdstreet.jpg http://glen.utdallas.edu/Family/2002%20Vacation/Getty%20Museum/IMG_0004.JPGhttp://www.geocities.com/los_angeles_coast/Los_Angeles_Broadway_Pedestrians.jpghttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~dpd/photos/USA%20Trip/Los%20Angeles%20-%20Marina%20Del%20Ray%20-%20View%20From%20Marine%20Beach%20Marriott%20Room%20At%20Night%20%20with%20Swimming%20Pool%20(150dpi).jpghttp://www.cs.ucla.edu/~kulisics/images/domestic/los_angeles/night/hollywood_highland_kodak.jpghttp://www.hohpe.com/Gregor/Travel/2003/LA/huntington_beach.jpghttp://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/577/699picture_130b.jpghttp://ia33.org/images/pantages.night.800.jpghttp://www.engineering.ucsb.edu/~schmave/photos/best/Getty-47.jpg http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/languagesofla/images/ketab1.jpghttp://asianconnections.com/images/life/events/2002/06/28/worldcup.la.koreatown/02.jpghttp://asianconnections.com/images/life/events/2002/06/28/worldcup.la.koreatown/13.jpghttp://www.silverlake.org/school/neighborhood/SilverLake_showing_Silvertop1998--David_Kalwitz.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/los_angeles_coast/Broadway_at_night_Los_Angeles_1940s.jpghttp://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CTW/LosAngeles_2002b.jpg

http://img274.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc1047c9jy5mo.jpg

I want to see if this works...can we post thingees from photobucket here? Since this is going to be a test if the renderings for the DTLA thread will work:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/rpulido/9th%20and%20Flower/residencies3.bmp

http://you-are-here.com/architect/chiat_day3.jpg city hall! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Los_Angeles_City_Hall_%28color%29.jpghttp://img104.echo.cx/img104/2949/may20050439lu.jpghttp://img236.echo.cx/img236/152/may20050102cu.jpghttp://img65.echo.cx/img65/5831/may20050096qj.jpghttp://img22.echo.cx/img22/9544/may20050503yh.jpghttp://img104.echo.cx/img104/9631/may20050402wt.jpg echo pahk http://www.lapostcard.com/images/T917_Los_Angeles_09.JPGhttp://www.lapostcard.com/images/T-994_Los_Angeles_08.JPG

also i know a trop bartender - i can get in - suckr

I actually really like LA. I was totally obsessed with it for years like people get with NYC. I was thinking of moving there for most of the year -- I still might. I'm a bit of a non-stereotypical NYer, so the vibe and nice weather (I believe it was like 40 degrees here when I was there) definitely appealled. That whole driving thing though...eh, I dunno. I totally demolished a fire hydrant in Silverlake, so I'm a little anxious about getting back behind the wheel.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/ViksPix/dsc1047c9jy-1.jpg

I am vaguely living proof one can deal with SoCal without a car. I will emphasize 'vaguely.'

Some plans for this Friday were bubbling up but I hadn't heard back from most folks yet, so...

cool! i'm all for demolishing silverlake. *runs away*

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5080800049.html

Census Report: L.A. Leads Nation in Jobs

The Associated Press
Monday, August 8, 2005; 12:37 AM

LOS ANGELES -- For your best shot at a job, consider working in Los Angeles. But if you want a higher wage, try New York City.

A new U.S. Census Bureau report released Monday shows populous Los Angeles County leads the nation with the highest number of businesses while Manhattan tops the chart with the highest average salary.


The bureau's 2003 County Business Patterns report analyzes business establishments in more than 1,000 industries on a national, state and local level. The data is used by business planners to study economic activity.

In the report, Los Angeles County had 235,000 businesses, followed by Cook County, Ill., home to Chicago, with 128,000, and New York County, also known as Manhattan, with 103,000.

In 2003, businesses in Los Angeles County hired 3.8 million workers who earned $147 billion. Meanwhile, Cook County had 2.4 million employees who made $102 billion, and Manhattan had 2 million workers with a payroll of $148 billion.

Among the nation's most populous counties, Manhattan had the highest average annual salary per worker at $73,000, while the lowest was in Riverside County, Calif., east of Los Angeles, at $29,000. [insert -> HAHAHAHAHA]

Rounding out the top five counties with the highest number of businesses were Harris County, Texas, which includes Houston, with 86,000, and Orange County, Calif., south of Los Angeles, with 83,000.

that SO does not reflect the "average" salary in manhattan.

Robinson

That would be a measure of mean, not median.

while the lowest was in Riverside County, Calif., east of Los Angeles, at $29,000. [insert -> HAHAHAHAHA]

please get me out of the IE. kthx

that sounds like the REAL average salary for manhattanites!

EL CHAVO >>>>>> EL COYOTE >>>>> EL CHOLO

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/article.pl?sid=05/08/11/0346258

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/10/AR2005081002110.html

Just to be a big know-it-all here, that picture of the giant binoculars is actually in Venice and nowhere near downtown LA. It's the Chiat-Day offices.

Mary, that article about densely packed sprawl is quite interesting. If true, it flips a lot of the tired old vertical vs. horizontal arguments on their head.

Anyway, world conquest is now assured seeing as you are adding yourselves to Our Great and Glorious Number.

ILX PASSOVER SEDER

and i'll actually be moving in august!

Oxnard is all about sprawl and landowners cashing in on the real estate boom of the past 20 some years. I dont think a new apartment building has been put up since the 70s.

(I love you)

-- Shelly Winters Death Clip (theundergroundhom...), March 5th, 2006.

well?

[warning: GRAND GENERALIZATIONS]

L.A.: Friendliest at house parties... most poseurish and "must be someone I'm NOT because I'll be more impressive that way" at venues, galleries, etc. ditzy arty stereotype = mostly true. I stress "most" and "mostly". L.A. folks are generally great drunks. MUST HOLD ONTO COOL PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY, or suffer from loneliness. People generally know this and do this, so it's not that bad at all.

NYC: Friendliest out on the streets and at house parties.. in fact, friendliest in general.. except at a bar after alcohol, and i stress "alcohol" Mr. Hyde then erupts. "I CALLED FOR THIS CAR SERVICE... GET YOUR OWN, YOU FUCKING PRICK!".

L.A. arty person discourse: "you'll be sorry when I die"
NYC arty person discourse: "you'll be sorry when I kill you"

(To Waltz) Seattle: "Hey there! I'll totally forget your name or forget I met you in a few seconds, but I'm going to run into you anyway in a few days randomly anyway, so it's all good." Years later: "Hey, want to come to a party I'm having? I guess since we've run into each other over 100 times now, it's about time."

(again, GENERALIZATIONS, I stress)

I'M CRUSHING YOUR HEAD

Portland arty person discourse: "'Wi-LAMB-ette'! Not 'WILL-amet'. pssh"

have you bought your prius yet?

'Hybrid' cars were Oscars' politically correct ride
By Kelly Carter, USA TODAY
LOS ANGELES — Sure, lots of black stretch limos pulled up to the Academy Awards last week. But the real hot wheels at the Oscars were fuel-efficient hybrid and electric vehicles.

Harrison Ford, Calista Flockhart were among the celebrities who arrived at the Oscars ceremony in a Toyota Prius.
A.M.P.A.S. via AP

Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson drove themselves in their electric Toyota RAV4.

Arriving in complimentary chauffeur-driven Toyota Priuses — a hybrid that runs on a combination of gas and battery-powered electricity — were Cameron Diaz, Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins, and Harrison Ford and Calista Flockhart.

Maggie Gyllenhaal took a Prius to Vanity Fair's post-Oscar bash. The previous day she and Juliette Lewis were driven to the Independent Spirit Awards in one.

Toyota teamed with Global Green USA to offer celebs a Prius to Oscar-related events.

Tooling around in a Toyota or Honda may not seem very glamorous. But the hybrid and electric cars are environmentally correct, which scores points with stars.

Last month, Mick Jagger, Christina Aguilera, Christine Lahti, Lisa Kudrow, Mira Sorvino, Johnny Depp and Luke Wilson arrived at a free Rolling Stones concert in L.A. in Honda Civic hybrids, courtesy of Honda. Toyota provided chauffeur-driven Priuses to Diaz, Leonardo DiCaprio and Pierce Brosnan.

Robbins loved his loaner Prius so much he's considering buying one. His concern? Finding room for his brood in the $21,000 car, which seats four.

"I was driving it (last) weekend, and I'm sold," the actor said. "The kids will just have to be a little uncomfortable."

Diaz, who owns a Prius, says she drives hers every day. She's not the only star owner. DiCaprio owns two and Larry David three. Don Cheadle, Meryl Streep, David Duchovny, David Hyde Pierce, Patricia Arquette, Jackson Browne, Ted Danson, Jeff Goldblum, Donna Mills and Rob Reiner all have one. James Taylor, Richard Dreyfuss and Bonnie Raitt have the $20,000 Honda hybrid. Like Hanks, Ed Begley Jr. and Tony Shalhoub own the electric RAV4.

"I can get up to 75 miles per hour in mine," Hanks boasts.

Then again, when I was leaving the Promenade, I saw a teenage girl in a Rolls Royce doing a 5-star illegal u-turn on 2nd Ave and Wilshire, so I was back in bizarro world again. *shrug*

NEVER AGAIN

And smelt like baby poo.

perfect for that high-fiber lifestyle!

And JFTR, the westside, santa monica, palisades area is lousy with Prius'.

Welcome all you new to LA/moving soon crew. Glad to have you. You WILL need a car. Ned!?!?! How do you get around w/o one? I am amazed and darn proud of you.

except, wait, i'm actually going to be moving to your beautiful city on may 22! i got a place to stay for the summer while i look for something longer-term. (and anyway, my classes start in august.)

btw, keep this in mind for FAPs in 2010:

http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9950207/detail.html

Thanks for the birthday cheer and beer!

I missed seeing Arthur, Chaki, Spencer, Remy, and other hoped-for non-Angelenos, but it was also nice just to have a small gathering. Ned more than made up for all the absent voices. ; p

Just don't lecture me on how people who live in BF, Arkansas can still be surprisingly diverse and hip. I know that, silly willy! I'm from the other Hicksville central of California (it's not Bakersfield). We were asked what was a marker of uncool in our youths, so I said so. Don't hate me, don't blame me, just because I'm the one to tell you...haole in cowboy boots.

Eagle Rock Arts fest

Remember when I mentioned the story of a squid being penetrated by a sausage in another thread and got quizzical looks around the table at the Colorado? I found it on the Chicago: Where have all the serial killers gone? thread.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/chakisaki/opp_domeday.jpg

The Dome Village needs our help and yours too.

This is an all day event/festival. Come join these puppits and kranko the human person as we try to generate $50,000 dollars for the relocation of La's best kept secret, the Dome Village. There will be more updates and more performers signing onto this effort as the days countdown. Learn more about The Dome Village here: http://www.domevillage.org

http://www.domevillage.org/ViewDV3fadeout.jpg

!!

LOS ANGELES. California (AP) -- An old man whose car hurtled through a farmers market, killing 10 people and injuring more than 70, was convicted Friday of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence -- the harshest verdict possible.

George Russell Weller, 89 and in poor health, will probably spend the rest of his life in prison for the 2003 crash, which set off a national debate over whether elderly people should be barred from driving or required to pass additional tests when renewing their licenses.

Weller was not in court to hear the verdict, reached by a jury after eight days of deliberation.

His attorneys argued that he mistakenly stepped on the gas pedal instead of the brake and panicked when the vehicle raced into the open-air market. But prosecutors said he was careless to the point of criminal negligence and lacked remorse.

"He looked at what he had done, essentially shrugged his shoulders and said, `Oops,"' prosecutor Ann Ambrose told the jury.

Weller's 1992 Buick Le Sabre traveled about 300 yards, reaching 60 mph or more as it crashed into food stalls. It finally came to a stop after hitting a ditch, with one victim's body tangled underneath and another's draped across the hood. The victims ranged in age from 7 to 78.

Weller did not testify, but jurors heard a taped interview with police immediately after the crash in which he said he tried everything he could think of to stop the car.

"I tried to take the control knob and jam it into park. Everything. Anything that I thought would stop the action of the car," he said.

Weller faces two to six years on each of the 10 manslaughter counts. Until then, he is prohibited from driving anywhere.

You forget that I liked The Black Dahlia

Yeah that Weller story is pretty sad all around.

1) Compared with the other places I've lived, Los Angeles seems a place where people are looking for reasons to dislike you more than for reasons to like you. It's abysmally easy to end up on somebody's bad side.

People have an intense way of looking through you here, a more noticably active avoidance, than most places I've spent time. Maybe it's just this area of Orange County. Maybe it's because I'm in the Ralph's in my dusty work clothes with hardhat hair, makeupless and with a farmer's tan (all of which still gets me some eye contact in Seattle, mind). Either way, it's disconcerting.

them: "where are you from?"
me: "oh, east coast."
them: "what part of the east coast? i have a cousin from maryland."
me (hesitantly): "i'm from new york."
them: "city?"
me: "yep."
them: "whoa. what the hell made you come here?"
me: "i..."
them: "boy, you must really hate it here."
me: "er... no??"

tall firs: hi, we're tall firs, we're from brooklyn, this is our first time in l.a.

audience: brooklyn!!!

tall firs: your town is like a health spa, i ate a chorizo burrito this morning, you've got great weed, bla bla.

audience: tall firs from brooklyn!

who the fuck says they're from 'brooklyn' to a room full of arthur magazine hipsters? and health spa? yeesh. immediate bristling.

Shirley Corriher, Food Scientist
In Conversation with Jonathan Gold

Thursday, November 16, 2006 at 8:00 PM
Beckman Auditorium
FREE; no tickets or reservations required

Chef and chemist Shirley Corriher is a leading food writer, syndicated columnist, and frequent guest on television shows such as Alton Brown's Good Eats. According to an article in Food & Wine (1988), "Shirley Corriher keeps audiences (both live and TV) spellbound with her descriptions of how food and recipes work."

Jonathan Gold is an award-winning food writer whose column appears regularly in the L.A. Weekly. He was New York restaurant reviewer for Gourmet magazine and is author of Counter Intelligence: Where to Eat in the Real Los Angeles.

Er, in Pasadena or elsewhere?

This 'Tim Burton revisits his old LA haunts' story is better than I expected. (Certainly it's better than him making videos for the freakin' Killers.)

here's a site, courtesy of laobserved.com, set up by a stuttgart engineer who likes to vacation in los angeles and take pictures of buildings. he's managed to put together the best photo history of la architecture i've seen:

http://you-are-here.com/index.html

yeah, i just don't know if i can deal with all those douchey pet sounds obsessives circa 2006. i'm a little brian wilsoned out.

i haven't seen any of the brian wilson shows and should be able to deal with the fan club. most of them are doing the best they can.

I am in Pasadena.

Do you ever go to Lucky's? A solid spot, if i've ever had one.

next next friday people!!!

Nope - never set foot in Lucky's (where is it?) - I'm an ol' foggie (33 or 34, I honestly can't recall at the moment) and have critter caretaking duties so I don't get out nearly as much as I should. On the upside, I've a home filled with adorable, healing critters, and so the lack of social excitement is somewhat corrected.

I'll be in South Pas. in about 45-minutes - picking-up a furkid from the vet.

Do you take care of the ailing critters professionally?

My wife actually works up at Foothill and Rosemead, so I know exactly where you are.

Semi-professionally - they're all volunteer fosters, but I do grant and proposal writing for non-profits, professionally, so it all kind of ties together. Be sure to let me know if you're ever interested in adopting a critter - lots pass through here, seeking good forever homes :)

I'm a wee bit west of the Foothill/Rosemead intersection, but my S/O works in the vicinity of Foothill/Madre.

So what brought y'all out here?

Some recent LA photos courtesy me:

http://static.flickr.com/99/294245808_a1822f59cf.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/118/294247037_937da813b1.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/109/294248024_3c8ed366e4.jpg

Saturday was a rabbit adoption event, followed by dinner at Gale's here in Pasadena (I'd link to their site, but it appears to be down) - anyway, excellent northern Italian food. And then to the Tomorrow Show for some chortles.

Sunday was the Heritage Square Museum followed by the Southwest Museum of the American Indian. Then dinner at the Firefly Bistro.

And tonight was this talk as part of the LA Central Library's ALOUD series.

Yay! jbr birthday! We should fill the back of work truck with ice and PBR!

Wait, how? Or were you there at Taco Mesa and I missed seeing you? (Old KUCI acquaintance Jarett L. was, though.)

Thank you! Yours truly,
M

Jaq - either way, I'd like to hook-up - you can snuggle with the fur kids and we can talk books and things.

And hello M4tt - anyone who understands the intricacies of hollandaise is okay in my book. (Though I had peanut butter on burnt toast for dinner tonight. The last of the olde timey gourmands.)

http://www.pbs.org/opb/edenslostandfound/la_01.html

Los Angeles reigns throughout the world as not so much a place, but a culture. The city is famous for a movie industry and a laid-back, casual lifestyle where anyone can succeed beyond their wildest dreams. It is this illusion of Eden that drew 15 million people here in search of their individual piece of the L.A. dream.

Despite the city's cultural popularity, anyone familiar with Los Angeles might be shocked that this city is included in this series. L.A.? Sustainable? L.A. is a place that turned smog and pollution into household words! The movies may have brought L.A. its initial notoriety, but now it may be equally famous for its earthquakes, droughts, floods, fires and gridlock.

Yes, L.A. is a tough place to live. But its environmental heroes, determined political leaders and innovative programs are working on changing that. Many of today's Los Angelinos are dreaming a different city and taking sustainable steps to make this dream a reality.

That's funny, when I had a stopover in SLC during christmas travel I thought the smog looked pretty damn bad. It's hard to compare like that though.

Does anyone know of any good information about the amount of LA air pollution that comes from sources other than cars? Like the Port of LA, oil refineries, etc?

Actually my cousin had something to say about that (he works in civic engineering and transportation for Portland, Oregon) -- apparently the Port does have something to do with it, in that the major pollution in the basin derives not from cars, but trains and (I'd guess) trucks, specifically all the freight that comes into the port and from elsewhere. But I'd have to double check with him on the numbers and where he got this info.

also on feb 14th on v-day i will be hosting a party with lotsa great bands at charlie o's located in the haunted alexandria hotel on 5th and spring.

Taschen sale this weekend. Anything happening on Sunday? I have a friend in town.

There's actually a really great set of charts addressing this in one of those Tufte books. I'll see if I can dig it up...

"Container ships burning low quality bunker fuel idle dockside because most have no capability to connect to shore-generated electricity. Diesel-powered semi-trailer trucks and locomotives idle while waiting to be loaded and unloaded. The local air quality regulatory agency did a study that found that air pollution from the port is responsible for 2,000 cases of cancer per million people (25 per million is the upper limit sought by regulators). The 47 tons of nitrogen oxides generated daily by port marine vessels nearly equals the amount emitted by the 350 largest factories and refineries in the region, and that number is expected to increase 70% by 2022."

LA's industrial pollution is kind of interesting to me because it seems to be largely neglected when people talk about LA smog. I have to wonder if industry hasn't intentionally tried to push the blame entirely onto individual drivers to avoid cleaning up their own act.

Tell me about Terminal Island.

New Los Angeles thread. Cuz this one sucks at the beginning, and I said a bunch of bullshit I don't care about or believe any more.

I'm in amoeba right now. When do we eat the good shit? :-D

dude, if you eat seafood you should go over to the hungry cat on vine (near the borders). their cobb salad is to die for.

I'm at Rahel right now. Vegan Ethiopian. Fairfax and whitworth

(not pescatarian but thank you!)

Part Time Punks at the Echo with The Tartans tomorrow night

is it possible to visit and see stuff without renting a car? am i going to end up spending mega $$$ on taxis?

I sense a theme. (This question was asked on the other thread, and the answer is potentially yes to the first question, allowing for some patience and whatever it is you exactly want to see.)

sorry, didn't see other thread

Responses from here forward.

I didn’t plan for my vacation in LA which commences FRIDAY. What are some things I absolutely must see during my five days here. I have almost no money and am staying with a friend in Santa Monica.

the interior of the Bradbury Building

i like art, music, books, tacos, and beer. I dislike nightclubs, drugs (including weed), and celebrities. If there is anything that is supposed to be haunted I’m down.

If anyone wants to meet up for a drink I might be able to do that—probably during the day on one of the weekdays. I’m more likable in person.

Thanks Morbs! That is def on my list but thanks for the reminder. I love architecture too. Forgot to mention it.

Also sorry for the self-serving thread bump. I don’t regret it — I want to mine ilx’s collective wisdom — but I see how it’s obnoxious.

go down to the beach, either Malibu or Venice. Dusk is a good time.

This is the current general LA thread: Los Angeles Thread #11: Let's Save Vincente Minnelli's House

damn it treezy

u needed to tell me a little more in advance

ill be at work all day next week

not sure if youre interested but if you want to get away from the la madness for a few hours hit up the self realization fellowship lake shrine in pacific palisades

for architecture you might want to visit ace hotel? i kno nothing about architecture tho

the museum row starts on wilshire and fairfax

the broad downtown is popular these days tho

if u like books the last bookstore

food/etc lemme kno what youre into

tacos -- p much good ones everywhere but try grand central market for brain tacos tho they sell out quick

beer -- used to rep sunset beer co but lately i havent been feeling their vibe, but you can go if youre in the hood (echo park, far from santa monica). samo beer places are kinda lame. not rough enough for me. rly fancy shmansy

downtown la:

mikkeler bar
wurstkuche

hit up arts district and check out the street art/graffiti

u said no drukqs/clubs so will keep the seedier recs to myself

And this is more of a tourist advice thread (and Clifton's is now open, so if you're at the Broadway building this is fairly close by. Food is nothing special, it's the building's interior that's the draw):

Los Angeles/San Diego touristing advice?

I meant Bradbury bldg, of course.

Museum of Jurassic Technology and the merry go round + abandoned zoo at griffith park are essential stops

The Bonaventure atrium is also worth a visit - especially in combination with the Bradbury if you're in to architecture.

Also, driving west on Sunset in the late afternoon (not during the week during rush hour) listening to something mellow from Los Feliz all the way to the ocean.

The actual best time to listen to Babylon Sisters by Steely Dan.

The Last Bookstore is good times but I think the actual best used bookstore in town content wise is Iliad Books in North hollywood. Not as labyrinthine or instagram ready but they are considerably legit.

xpost, yes. Air's "La Femme D'Argent" would be the classic KCRW-ish choice, but my personal favorite for this drive is "Summer Days" by Phoenix.

not a local obv but was in town last week. everyone should grab a drink at bernadette's downtown. owned by a good friend's cousin and the type of spot i'd be a regular at.

I’ll check out that place

Downtown keeps getting better and better

When i first moved here ktown was my favourite part of the city, now it’s downtown

Thanks! I will def check out the last bookstore and compare it to my current place of employment. Friday I have six hours to kill between my plane landing and my friend getting off work... might do the museum of jurassic technology then. Want to allot at least one whole day for downtown.

just in general we had a great time in downtown on this last trip. la is the best.

So Virgin America planes have bright pink overhead lighting.

And some kind of loungey dance music is playing as people file in.

virgin america rocks. good decision.

I want to go to LA so bad

virgin amerikkka is the party airline bruh

get yr party favours out

Want to move here. Starting a new job in New York next week and am dreading going back to that cold, dirty city, which I don’t love as much as I feel I should.

drive 2 hours north if you want to feel better about a cold, dirty city that's not on fire

treezy make the move -- at least to the wet coast

come hang w all the chill d00dz

What should I see and do between February 3rd and 6th? Music? museums? sports? restaurants ? Can you make the rain go away so outdoors things can be done

Is there a different Los Angles thread that is used now? Been hanging with relatives in Hermosa Beach so far.

Drive to Malibu. Lunch at Duke’s. Proceed to Point Dume. Wade out.

Damn that sounds like an excellent rec

Anybody out there?

I hope everyone is ok.

CA wildfires thred