Achieving Alcoholism: How To

Withdrawal can cause seizures and even death, so yeah, its a drug of physical dependency

I think it's a combination of factors, really. Physical as well as mental.

That's pretty harsh. I think I'll get a gym membership or something instead of continuing drinking... bring on the exercise induced endophins.

PROPPER

we should go drinking together MK, I did this for a while and it was great! I, er, had to stop after a while though.

HI DERE

-- miele kitty (miel...), June 22nd, 2006.

If you sincerely want to keep drinking after being drunk every day for 3 weeks, I'd wonder if you might already have alcoholic tendencies. Unless of course you're in college and this is the only time you've ever done something like this.

I'd also point out that you could be doing some liver damage if you keep going.

Sorta...Benzos like Valium help though. Benzos/Barbiturates act at similar places in the brain so you can substitute the alcohol partially with Benzos, which can be medicated in a more controlled way.

Re: Markelby's contrib. on the old thread - oh shit, it must run in the family. My bro is suffering from drinking induced fatty liver...

Anyone can become an alcoholic. If you drink enough for a long enough period of time, yeah, it'll happen. You've got to do it for awhile, usually, but your personality can help or hinder that as well.

Is alcohol a genuine drug of addiction and physical dependency?

People don't get shakes or find that they have trouble dreaming (and thus reaching REM) for no reason. It comes down to this: when you don't drink, how much time do you think about drinking? Because if it takes up a sizeable chunk, that's not a good sign.

anyone down for a FAP?

I believe there are genes that influence behavioural traits, but nurture is much bigger factor.

If Grandpa is always drinking and your dad is always drinking along with his brothers who are always drinking it affects how you see alcohol. I suppose if it leads to unpleasantness and friction at home it could put you off for life, but what if most of what you see is people having a laugh every day?

My extended family is full of fairly convivial and frequent drinkers, I'm sure it affected my attitude to drinking (i.e. drinking = good, drinking lots = better, drinking lots all the time = best).

Yeah, let's liven it up by impairing my concentration and increasing my potential to do some damage!

Uh, it affects your motor control, spatial relations and ability to concentrate. Driving stoned is no different from driving drunk (at equivalent levels of being drunk/stoned).

pwnd

Stoned drivers are safe drivers
by Dana Larsen (11 Jan, 2005) Two decades of research show that marijuana use may actually reduce driver accidents.

The effects of marijuana use on driving performance have been extensively researched over the last 20 years. All major studies show that marijuana consumption has little or no effect on driving ability, and may actually reduce accidents. Here's a summary of the biggest studies into pot use and driving.

A 1983 study by the US National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) concluded that the only significant affect of cannabis use was slower driving - arguably a positive effect of driving high.

A comprehensive 1992 NHTSA study revealed that pot is rarely involved in driving accidents, except when combined with alcohol. The study concluded that "the THC-only drivers had an [accident] responsibility rate below that of the drug free drivers." This study was buried for six years and not released until 1998.

A 1993 NHTSA study dosed Dutch drivers with THC and tested them on real Dutch roads. It concluded that THC caused no impairment except for a slight deficiency in the driver's ability to "maintain a steady lateral position on the road." This means that the THC-dosed drivers had a little trouble staying smack in the center of their lanes, but showed no other problems. The study noted that the effects of even high doses of THC were far less than that of alcohol or many prescription drugs. The study concluded that "THC's adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small."

A massive 1998 study by the University of Adelaide and Transport South Australia examined blood samples from drivers involved in 2,500 accidents. It found that drivers with only cannabis in their systems were slightly less likely to cause accidents than those without. Drivers with both marijuana and alcohol did have a high accident responsibility rate. The report concluded, "there was no indication that marijuana by itself was a cause of fatal accidents."

In Canada, a 1999 University of Toronto meta-analysis of studies into pot and driving showed that drivers who consumed a moderate amount of pot typically refrained from passing cars and drove at a more consistent speed. The analysis also confirmed that marijuana taken alone does not increase a driver's risk of causing an accident.

A major study done by the UK Transport Research Laboratory in 2000 found that drivers under the influence of cannabis were more cautious and less likely to drive dangerously. The study examined the effects of marijuana use on drivers through four weeks of tests on driving simulators. The study was commissioned specifically to show that marijuana was impairing, and the british government was embarrassed with the study's conclusion that "marijuana users drive more safely under the influence of cannabis."

According to the Cannabis and Driving report, a comprehensive literature review published in 2000 by the UK Department of Transportation, "the majority of evidence suggests that cannabis use may result in a lower risk of [accident] culpability."

The Canadian Senate issued a major report into all aspects of marijuana in 2002. Their chapter on Driving under the influence of cannabis concludes that "Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving."

The most recent study into drugs and driving was published in the July 2004 Journal of Accident Analysis and Prevention. Researchers at the Dutch Institute for Road Safety Research analyzed blood tests from those in traffic accidents, and found that even people with blood alcohol between 0.5% and 0.8% (below the legal limit) had a five-fold increase in the risk of serious accident. Drivers above the legal alcohol limit were 15 times more likely to have a collision. Drugs like Valium and Rohypnol produced results similar to alcohol, while cocaine and opiates showed only a small but "not statistically significant" increase in accident risk. As for the marijuana-only users? They showed absolutely no increased risk of accidents at all.

LINKS AND REFERENCES

1983 National Highway Transportation Safety Administration study: Stein, AC et al., A Simulator Study of the Combined Effects of Alcohol and Marijuana on Driving Behavior-Phase II, Washington DC: Department of Transportation (1983)
www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth12.shtml

1992 National Highway Transportation Safety Administration study: The Incidence and Role of Drugs in Fatally Injured Drivers, by K.W. Terhune, et al. of the Calspan Corp. Accident Research Group in Buffalo, NY (Report # DOT-HS-808-065)
www.drugsense.org/tfy/nhtsa1.htm

1993 National Highway Transportation Safety Administration study: Marijuana and actual Driving Performance, By Hindrik WJ Robbe and James F O'Hanlon. Institute for Human Psychopharmacology, University of Limburg
www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_driving4.shtml

1998 University of Adelaide and Transport South Australia study:
www.ukcia.org/research/driving4.html

1999 University of Toronto Study, Marijuana Not a Factor in Driving Accidents:
newsandevents.utoronto.ca/bin/19990329a.asp

2000 UK Transport Research Laboratory study on Cannabis and Driving:
www.mapinc.org/newscc/v00/n1161/a02.html

2000 UK Department of Transportation's Cannabis and Driving report:
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_504567.hcsp

2002 Report of the Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs
www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/ille-e/rep-e/repfinalvol1part4-e.htm

July 2004, Journal of Accident Analysis and Prevention, Psychoactive substance use and the risk of motor vehicle accidents.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15094417

For a less scientific and more amusing study of the combination of drugs and driving, go here:
www.techno.de/mixmag/interviews/Driving_on_drugs.html

A BETTER WAY TO TEST

Performance testing is better than drug testing
Cannabis Culture, January 2005
cannabisculture.com/articles/4130.html

Alternatives to Drug Testing: Performance testing Non-testers List
www.nontesterslist.com/nontesters/ptest.html

Performance testing can add an extra measure of safety
HR Magazine, February 1996
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_n2_v41/ai_18159115

An Alternative to Drug Testing
Inc Magazine, April 1995
www.inc.com/magazine/19950401/2235.html

MEDIA REPORTS ON "DRUGGED DRIVING" LAWS

UK Launches Drug Driving Tests
Daily Telegraph, December 22, 2004
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n1821/a02.html

Drug Office Out To Convince Teens Pot Impairs Driving
Lexington Herald-Leader, December 3, 2004
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n1726/a05.html

Growing danger: Drugged driving
USA Today, Oct 21, 2004
www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-10-21-cover-drugged-driving_x.htm

Zero-tolerance drugged driving law doing the job
The Daily Press, July 8, 2004
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n977/a05.html

Lawmakers Aiming for 'Zero Tolerance' Of Pot-Smoking Drivers
The Athens News, May 5, 2004
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n683/a02.html

Drugged Driving Statutes Pushed
Boston Globe, March 21, 2004
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n464/a02.html

New Legislation To Allow Police To Conduct Roadside Tests for Drug Impaired Drivers
Ottawa Citizen, February 23, 2004
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n319/a07.html

Too Many One Toke Over Line, Police Say
Globe and Mail, February 1, 2003
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v03/n173/a01.html

Drug Czar, Prohibition Establishment Seek 'Zero Tolerance' for 'Drugged Driving'
The week online with DRCNet, November 22, 2002
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v02/n2157/a04.html

British Police Plan New Drug Tests For Drivers
Reuters, August 3, 2000
www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v00/n1105/a12.html

Marjiuana Report Too Hot Too Handle
Australian Broadcasting Corporation, October 1998
www.norml.org.nz/Marijuana/Driving.htm#abc981014b

"Steer Clear of Pot" Media Campaign
US Office of National Drug Control Policy
www.mediacampaign.org/steerclear/index.html

But it does every last thing I said.

besides, you should include bylines, dude. cannabisculture.com needs that recognition.

Driving stoned would be too much work for me anyway. I am not so mobile on teh weed.

which apparently it does not
I think I know why you're such a treat on political topics.

What about the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, UK Transport Research Laboratory, UK Department of Transportation, University of Adelaide and The University of Toronto?

i blame esteban

I've never driven stoned, because I've never felt even slightly capable of driving when stoned. Seriously, even the idea frightens me.

I'm sure it's different for the habitual dudes though (I only smoke once every few months).

The thing I see about all of those studies is the arbitrary equivalencies - x beers is y amount of weed smoked that don't have a correlation to the effect on an individual.

anyone that has actually smoked pot in their life would never say this. ganj doesnt do that to people. man you are like the REFER MADNESS of ilx.

And a dozen cherry-picked studies from a weed info group? Yes, I believe it does.

where was THIS????

ok. common sense and personal experience tells me that you will never admit to not being all-knowing. see ya.

YAY!

That's not fair. I liked it better than that. Check out my review on the newly revived "Descent" thread!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_%28drinking_game%29

Iceland! Now, they're drunks! Beth, you are not a drunk. Plus it takes discipline to make sure there is always a bottle or two in the house.

I'm told my liver is a little on the dicey side, but there's reasons in addition to the booze for that in my case. I really should cut back tho. If nothing else, the last 5 years of fairly heavy drinking have given me an extra 15 kg of weight and an honest to gods beer gut.

NOT TRUE.

Horror movies are better when you juice up on CAFFEINE beforehand.

Also: Driving stoned, on long drives, just makes shit take longer. When you're delivering pizzas: totally classic.

Oh my yes. Favorite job I've ever had. (Not best, just favorite.) Drive around with a one-hitter, listen to music, eat free food when you're done. Common Sense Resurrection still makes me feel like I'm delivering pizza.

no, dismissing chaki for cherry-picking, while at the same time having no evidence other than your own "common sense and personal experience" makes you a douchebag. i'm willing to bet i have more personal experience here, and i say that driving drunk and stoned are significantly different, so i'm right regardless of what anyone else says!

Good luck, and sorry to hear about your relative's problem.

but beyond that I'd like to find some resources for adult family members of alcoholics that aren't exclusively focused on "omg here's how to recover from yr fucked up childhood" and more focused on "here's how adult family members can help each other". I guess I should just look up the nearest Al-Anon meeting...

taking sides: booze vs doobie

i choose doobie.

Shakey I dig where your head is at here. It is common, when a close relation or dear friend suffers as a result of behavior in which you yourself also engage, to wonder whether your behavior isnt also unhealthy. But the real yardstick, the sensible one, is - as others have indicated - is it affecting your life adversely? do you feel like you use liquor/weed to avoid shit, or is it something you do either socially or just for kicks? poster upthread otm in suggesting: ask ppl what they think! yr wife, friends, et al. there are, of course, as in your example, people who hide their habits - but you're not one of those it seems. Love to you!

But T.T., questions always do get answered, even though there are a lot of wacky tangents and tomfoolery. You yourself quote an eminently sensible x-post!

BTW YOU DONT HAVE TO POST OR READ ON ILX!

however, your point has absolutely nothing to do with whether it'd be a good thing for ilx to sorta bow out gracefully

this isn't actually that hard a point to grasp, but apparently some ppl are so misty-eyed for this shit that they can't grasp the difference between "I still enjoy this place, too, but I think it's run its course, and this thread offers support for that contention" and "I hate it and find nothing redeeming in it"

haha! oh man it all comes back around eventually

had my first awkward encounter with a person trying to buy me a drink last night then hugging me and whispering to me that they applauded my decision. dj'd sober for the first time in a VERY long time.

it's not so much that i thought that i had a problem that was actually hindering my ability to perform the function of life to the satisfaction of others, but that i thought i was setting up a situation where i would have a lot of serious problems to deal with at an undetermined date.

i also quit smoking. both are going pretty well and not nearly as difficult yet as i imagined/have experienced before.

Holy SHIT! Are you, like, Paul Bunyan or something? Cause I'm not a little bitty guy, and I'm sure that would kill me.

well, i'm not huge or anything, but it's definitely an amount you have to work up to.

good luck, trayce. for me, somehow it's been the boredom of weekday evenings that's been harder.

four days and counting.

i've been drinking until i'm drunk or really drunk 4-5 times a week for almost a year. i just admitted to myself i have a problem, so i'm taking a break for as long as i can hold out. i laughed really hard at "fuck you, you're a mormon, next to you everyone has a drinking problem" in burn after reading.

i feel good, but i don't know what to do with myself during the hours i used piss away before. school and work will keep me busy during the week. i'm pretty bad at filling the rest of the time though. suggestions?

Hey good for you!

There's a Mormon in 'burn after reading'???

• Make a log cabin from toothpicks and Elmers glue
• Sharpen your skills at making prank phone calls
• organize that closet
• learn how to conjugate verbs in modern greek
• daydream about comitting mayhem on Dick Cheney
• find names for abstruse colors

suggestions?

http://skattertech.com/media/2007/12/wii-ps3-xbox360.jpg

and get a club soda machine.

Tombot OTM

alternatively, exercise. bikes, hikes, weights, animal taming.

john malkovich's cia boss

got a fresh law and order torrent w/ my name on it tonight.

xxpost

got the exercise thing going. weights and slayer are awesome.

wii and weed is a wise investment.

tv on dvd.

Become obsessed with all types of music and maintain up-to-the-minute information at all times. If you can't enjoy all types, pick at least two like Techno or Chart Pop that keep you ridiculously busy reading mp3 blogs.

Although, this might just make you want to drink more!

do you play bass guitar currently matt p?

bass guitar is a gateway drug dude. this has been proven.

http://www.musictimes.com.au/images/sid-vicious1.jpg

Bass guitar leads to playing bass guitar through a guitar amp, so y'better watch it dude.

you know what would REALLY fill up that free time? a comprehensive treatment program for your addiction!

give ebaums credit where it's due, ade

?

idk what ur talkin about, i just mean to say that tellin an alcoholic to smoke weed and read music blogs is the absolute height of irresponsibility (esp the music blogz part)

oh right, this is the internet, where people have responsibilities to each other.

i'm thinking about treatment options. i've got counseling so i have the hookup when i need it. a+ weekend so far though, we'll see how long i can keep it up.

tidy up. ditch the case logics! dance with yr cat like nobodys looking. wanna go to olvera st. tonight? biday party but you know the dude. i won't drink if you go, no biggie

bday party same diff

every day is bi day

I don't know if anyone is looking for longwinded anecdotes, but this topic is right up my alley:

FWIW, I quit drinking about two months ago. I thought I might be an alcoholic, but I was able to get past the psychological withdrawal processs with no physical side effects. Up to that point, I drank (most of the time to at least mild intoxication) almost every day/night without fail. I have gone on one or two week dry stints before, but have been mostly fucked up since 1997 or so. My quitting was essential to overcoming a severe depressive slump, which I was certainly self-medicating for. Beyond that, though, I just really liked to drink. At this point, I've mostly lost my appetite for it and have been engaging in situations that I wouldn't have dared approach a month ago b/c temptation for the booze would be intolerable: bar gatherings, parties & the like. But now, having extricated the drink from my life and the clouds from my brain, I feel realistically confident that I can once again drink modestly in social situations, etc.

Actual, physical addiction to alcohol IS indeed something that one generally is or is not genetically predisposed toward, especially if there is a history of it on both sides of your family. I am fortunate not have developed any of those, despite that I should have reasonably expected to, given the extent of my indulgence. Withdrawal from real physical alcohol addiction is horrendous and nearly impossible to maintain. So if you are at all suspicious of your genetic history, its probably not best to roll the dice to too great of an extent.

Also, if you're tying on a lot of tight ones for and extended period of time, you should have your liver enzyme levels checked by your doctor at least once a year. If you're over by just a bit, you can cut back and correct for the increase with minimal personal sacrifice. Fatty liver and such take a long time to develop, so as long as you maintain some modicum of surveillance on your enzyme levels, and are confident of your lack of alcoholic genes, you could probably afford at least a few years of Bukowski-level without utterly destroying your life.

I recently had to translate a Dutch research paper about "problem drinking in the Netherlands". They made a clear distinction between alcoholism, which they consider the physical dependency, and problem drinking which is drinking that sometimes causes problems. They also stressed the range of severity of problem drinking. They found that many people are problem drinkers whose drinking only very occasionally causes problems and found that the *benefits* of drinking often outweighed the problems for those people (social contact, reduced stress). I think we are quick to label heavy drinkers alcoholics. Sometimes an all or nothing approach just sets people up to fail and doesn't help the problem.

I drink some beer or wine most nights and have for more years than I care to admit. It has taken a toll on me, I'm sure. But I don't think my life would be any happier if I went cold turkey. When I have, for 8 months the longest time, I found myself bored and isolated and depressed. I just try to be careful about not binging too often.

"Bukowski-level booze consumption"

Think it's gonna be 8.5 for yours truly.

good posts pillbox & maria

FWIW, I quit drinking about two months ago. I thought I might be an alcoholic, but I was able to get past the psychological withdrawal processs with no physical side effects. Up to that point, I drank (most of the time to at least mild intoxication) almost every day/night without fail. I have gone on one or two week dry stints before, but have been mostly fucked up since 1997 or so. My quitting was essential to overcoming a severe depressive slump, which I was certainly self-medicating for. Beyond that, though, I just really liked to drink. At this point, I've mostly lost my appetite for it and have been engaging in situations that I wouldn't have dared approach a month ago b/c temptation for the booze would be intolerable: bar gatherings, parties & the like. But now, having extricated the drink from my life and the clouds from my brain, I feel realistically confident that I can once again drink modestly in social situations, etc.

dogg, you're clearly an addict. there's no other word, no other diagnosis for someone who spends a decade+ getting fucked up day in, day out. you're bright enough to rationalize your way out of admitting this, but it's the same element of ego that's preventing you from committing yourself to the kind of help that you really need, because even though you perceive your problem you cannot divorce yourself from the idea that you can do it 'your' way.

¯\(°_o)/¯

Oh man 12-step treatment program debate spiral: will it be entered?

lol

＇へ＇凸

Dude, I'm sure AA works wonders for some. I am totally and truly fine with being able to take or leave the booze at this point. And if you think I'm rationalizing to the point of self-delusion, I'd like to point out that I've been going through this process with a therapist, so no. Psychological and emotional addictions can be overcome, some more easily than others (depending on the circumstances, etc.). B/C the "addiction" factor of my drinking habits was rooted squarely in clinical depression, combatting the depression itself (and its multitude of unfortunate byproducts, the alcohol dependence being only one), I have been able to put drinking behind me in the same order that I've made other restorative changes to my lifestyle.

lol sure thing drinky crow

http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/Drinky%20Crow%20Animation.jpg

Cankles: You are quite clever, for a troll.

xpost: early directorial effort from David Fincher. Anyway cankles, I've turned a new leaf, and you can too:

OK this is not working. Mods, please delete those empty u2be boxes. Link here

haha yeah i know, his finest work imo. btw: http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CJXZ48SLs-WbygEQrAIY7wEyCJzJbVs0Xbhl

Moderation Management to thread. Anyone have any experience with this approach?

When I have, for 8 months the longest time, I found myself bored and isolated and depressed. I just try to be careful about not binging too often.

Yeah, it's weird-- way back in the early 2000's, I all but stopped drinking for two solid years. I felt like I lost some of my humanity during that time...but I think that's in no small part due to my personal temperament-- I'm not exactly a raging extrovert, so at times drank helps me to get out of my head and interact with the other human beings.

But yeah, it definitely contributed to a sense of social isolation...I mean, I didn't mind hanging out with friends and being the one guy who was sipping on soda water the entire time, but what did bother me was the fact that in those days I was scheming to ingratiate myself with some local pub personnel, b/c I had ambitions to set up some dj nights...and, well, the idea of being a "regular" who drinks exclusively water struck me as being a game plan that even I in all of my abject foolishness was too prudent to attempt.

These days I have a "five-day plan", which is to say that I will abstain from drink for five days, and then will booze it up for one evening, and often will start drinking early the next day, partly to counteract any hangover residue, and partly just to enjoy myself. Welcome to the working week.

Last night I drank without being able to get drunk :(

Ouch.

I felt strangely proud of myself last night. I was at this party where there was not only multiple kegsa beer, but also an open bar (in someone's backyard! this was crazy, I tells ya). Anyhow, when 2:30 or so rolled around, I said to myself, "Yeah, I'm done. I can't drink no more." Part of me is almost surprised that I didn't try to poison myself further. I'm thinking that it had a lot to do with the overall way good vibes of the evening...

I also have this weird thing where I enjoy drinking in all of the situations which are culturally frowned upon-- alone, early in the day, on an empty stomach, etc.

Drinking provides me with access to parts of my psyche that I have not yet found a way to get to through other means. Maybe I should just become a MARIJUANA ADDICT, but, I dunno...I've never been much good at smoking. Also I think if I launched myself into a daily regimen along those lines such as some of my friends practice, I think it would conflict with other aspects of my lifestyle. Or something...

I bought a 375 ml bottle of bourbon the other day (Jack Daniel's, eh) and have not yet opened it bcz my past month or so has been a wreck of nervous stomach.

Well, it's living there for now. It won't drink itself.

I am pretty consistently a beer person. I've bought a couple of bottles of fancy scotch whisky in the past, and every once in a while I will have me some Jamison or whatever when I'm out, but otherwise I'm just doing beer, which I think ultimately is a good thing. From a strictly biological angle, it's kinda difficult to get into trouble with beer.

I always accidentally spill beer all over myself and sometimes my furniture. I am worried my couch maybe reeks of beer.

Heh I spilled cider all over me and my laptop pc late last year one night... luckily the pc was ok. Since we moved, my rampant "sit on the couch alone drinking and chain smoking all night" has ceased because I now have to smoke outside (which is not easy or fun in winter). This is a good thing, as it put the brakes on my compulsiveness. I still indulge a lot, but have been able to say "yeah thats enough for me tonight" after one drink, or just not have any if I dont feel like it, rather than just having it regardless.

My liver enzyme levels are back to normal now. You dont want to know where they were before. Even my GP didnt indicate quite how bad they were - wasnt til I got online and did some reading I realised I'd been a bit of a mess.

But it hasnt ever got so bad it's fucked up my life. A bad spot last year where I was ditching work a lot, but that was for all kinds of other reasons too (breakup, depression, etc).

Interesting thing, is that my tolerance for w33d has diminished massively since early this year. I had a break from it for six months and now any more than one pipe and I'm COMPLETELY WRECKED. Maybe thats just aging?

I really hate weed, I hate smoke anyway, but it just makes me feel loose and woozy and not quite centred. Half a bottle of whiskey gives me six legs and a temper and I like it much better that way.

eh i fucked up and drank a six-pack last night, so much for my golden promise. i'm not too worried though, just because it felt so good to be sober for five days and kinda crappy to be drunk last night, physically, even though i was out and not at home, so i hope i can internalize the costs/benefits and keep cutting back. i don't drink for the sake of drinking; i do it for other reasons, and it doesn't help, it just makes me tired and useless the next day.

cigs on the other hand...

Cigs make me wake up feeling like a barbecue grill.

i gave up cigarettes cos of waking up feeling my breath was like the smell of a half full can your friend has tipped ash in all night...

Carver-esque

brush your damn teeth

fuck cigarettes...brush your rotting lungs. or just stop. and stop standing downwind of repulsed human beings.

i recommend that all smokers give up and then realise how repulsive it is, in an even bigger way than people who have never smoked ever will.

good advice!!

I've hiked and drank before!

It's awesome when someone asks for a drink from your Nalgene and gets a mouthful of margarita.

I used to drink beer while working out (insert hilarious "six-pack" pun here).

Ive given up smoken pretty much recently. I end up smoking one cig 3 weeks later. than 2 more the next wekk and 3 more the next week (all when Im drinking). at first I found cig smoke repulsive when I gave it up but if u only smoke up to 3 cigs a week its not so bad.

It's awesome when someone asks for a drink from your Nalgene and gets a mouthful of margarita.

otm, also works with a picnic thermos full of mojito with mint and lime bits all floating around

I bought my first steel flask last month!

Do we have a thread for "coming back to work after happy hour" stories? This is an alarming trend in my town.

i want a flask but the liquor doesn't carry them

liquor store*

Hahah Tom that used to happen at the previous ISP I worked at a LOT. We'd have work drinks once a month then end up back in the call centre, pished, with the sup trying to get us to shut the hell up because customers probably dont want to hear drunken slurred shouting in the background while they're trying to log onto their Yahoomail.

Also, one guy walked face first really heavily into the glass wall of the boss's office. Its a wonder he didnt crash right through it.

Do we have a thread for "coming back to work after happy hour" stories?

http://www.daemonstv.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/nup_116909_0332.JPG

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/08/08/men_wideweb__470x288,0.jpg

Flasks = never a good idea.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64464406

Quite an interesting book about recovery, coupled with Alzheimer's, but they also happened a while ago too.

https://www.anothermag.com/design-living/14906/octavia-bright-this-ragged-grace-addiction-memoir-literary-friction

Not sure I'd describe it as an "achievement."

The book?

oh, the thread title, never mind.

Yes, sorry, the thread title.