Radiohead In Not-A-Bunch-Of-Black-Guys Shocker!

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"While stray suggestions that Yorke's vocal equipment is operatic overstate a power and range dwarfed by Jeff Buckley's as well as Pavarotti's, they certainly get at what people love about him—a pained, transported intensity, pure up top with hints of hysterical grit below, that has as little Africa in it as a voice with those qualities can. Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common, this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy. "

Remind me please why anyone in their right mind takes Christgau seriously?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I should read the whole piece, but the deep irony of ending that paragraph with "this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy" is staggering me.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i think he's saying that people like radiohead because they're far removed from r&b. but by this point i'm not certain that one can so easily make the statement that r&b is closer to africa than any other form of western pop music. what bugs me most is that (a) this description seems to be pejorative, as though a lack of a connection with black music should cast aspersions on the quality, (b) the reifying of "africa" as all that yorke's voice/radiohead's sound is *not* (per christgau).

also it still seems to me that when i finally parse his sentences, dig through the references and neologisms, their actual meaning is more often than not pretty banal and unrewarding.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

a.k.a "radiohead in arty intellectualized rock music shocka!"

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

a.k.a. "the narcissism of small differences: part MCMXIII"

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

plz can we have another 800 post thread by morning otherwise I'll be v disappointed.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)

I think it's even simpler: he's saying Thom Yorke has no "soul". I don't think I've ever read anyone say it like that. Hopefully he's able to dodge criticisms of racism.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not racism so much as an ability to address the actual qualities of thom yorke's voice/delivery he finds notable (or notably objectionable) without recourse to a shorthand with unfortunate racial implications.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

He's saying that Thom Yorke drives like this...

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

that should be inability. duh.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

why are people assuming 'sounds like africa' = 'sounds black' or that Christgau means that? who has more africa in their sound - brian eno circa 78 or johnny mathis circa 57?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

ie. radiohead circa 2003 or talking heads circa 1981?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

ie. radiohead circa 2003 or radiohead circa 2001?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

ie. talking heads circa 1981 or talking heads circa 1986?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ie talking heads 1986 or Ladysmith Black Mambazo 1986?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

do you really think christgau is invoking thomas mapfumo or griots here? "africa" seems like shorthand but i could be persuaded otherwise i suppose. also he's talking about the *voice*--talking heads and brian eno notably didn't imitate any particular african vocal technique that i know of.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Heyyy...*THATS* what Radiohead needs...close harmony singing!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

it seems like he is just trying to strengthen his case that radiohead are white guys existing within the spectrum of "guitar rock" (whatever that means) music. i had to re-read that sentence to understand it but i think its a valid observation.

what do people think about the last line, that httt will not have an impact on rock in general. i tend to agree there. actually you could expand httt to radiohead themselves and i would agree as well...

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if he means to echo the Eno quote abt 80's techno?

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Christgau perfers alot of stuff to sound like Afropop. A sold third of what he reviews (in the Consumer Guides to the 80s and 90s, at least) seems to be African pop/African folk music.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

g--ff: ding ding ding!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think he's saying it lacks soul at all, i think he's saying that it has force DESPITE being the opposite of specific features you'd expect xgau to be looking for and celebrating: he goes on straight away to say "like it or not the voice is remarkable"

i mean, that's what the grammar is saying, and that's what the piece as a whole is saying: he's countering the argt that they are merely unfunky white-brit blah blah by saying EVEN GRANTED ALL THIS there is something going on here

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Even granted Thom Yorke has no soul, there is something going on there -- I don't disagree.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

doesn't this:

"But no matter who's right, if anyone is, the future of Hail to the Thief is unlikely to have much bearing on the future of rock or anything else."

suggest that there is NOTHING going on there?

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

mark agreed although there is still a level of condescension (which i supposed is a reaction against a--mostly imagined at this point--critical endorsement of radiohead's [perceived] pretentsions) in the piece that i doubt would be as evident in a piece about um, well, african music. although christgau always comes off like he's convinced he's smarter than the artists he's reviewing.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

What's with that "Radiohead are no Nirvana range-wise" line? WTF, has he ever listened to either band?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

also he cites the alex ross new yorker piece as "perceptive": so he is not just dissing/dismissing r'head here (ross = v.pro them from an avant-classical perspective)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

christgau always comes off like he's convinced he's smarter than the artists he's reviewing.

Indeed, this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

marcg not necessarily bcz he is arguing that "future of rock" is a lame trope in the first place

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

still the africa thing really is a nonsequitir unless it means what i think it means. and christgau's pretty far along in his critical career for the idea that compelling music can be made without obvious reference to af-american idioms to be such a revelation!!!

he could be calling h.t.t.t. a world-historical masterpiece but the piece still irks in spots.

(p.s. i've always felt left out of the let's-assume-nirvana's-near-infallibility crowd.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

(major x-post)

I think what convinces me he is saying this is that if he is not, why even bring it up? At least lead rock vocalists aspiring to some kind of soul ambitions is a time-honored tradition (if not something I'm really looking for as a criterion) -- but, does anyone care that Thom Yorke doesn't have the "sound of Africa" in his voice? If Christgau is going to compare all of the music he reviews to African music, how am I supposed to ever know what he's talking about (given my admittedly ignorant experience with African music)?

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Mark S's interpretation but I still stand by my initial comment. I almost burst into laughter at that.

What's with that "Radiohead are no Nirvana range-wise" line? WTF, has he ever listened to either band?

I think he's saying exactly the opposite of what someone would normally mean with that sentence (ie, Radiohead has a wider musical range than Nirvana).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

(i am NOT an xgau fan btw and i don't think this is a good piece on r'head especially BUT i think xgau gets too much beaten about for things he's NOT guilty of and somewhat let off for things he often is)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just waiting for him to come in, leave a cryptic quote and ask that nobody e-mail him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh right, that makes sense Dan!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

"While stray suggestions that Franklin's vocal equipment is operatic overstate a power and range dwarfed by Gaye's as well as Yossou N'Dour's, they certainly get at what people love about him--a pained, transported intensity, pure up top with hints of hysterical grit below, that has as little Norway in it as a voice with those qualities can. Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common, this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy."

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

that was v. poorly done. sorry.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

radiohead's emotional range (gloom, occasionally cranky) isn't nearly as wide ranging as nirvana's, and considering the article is partially about addressing the 'radiohead: the only rock band that matters' claim, it's not off the mark to suggest that 'radiohead are no nirvana range-wise' (maybe when amnesiac goes platinum or if - if - hail to the thief goes platinum)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I loved that bit with all the amg adjectives -- like this restrained intellectual gonzoish clowning.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

what does " restrained intellectual gonzoish clowning" mean?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

the bit with the amg adjectives was fun

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

amateurist buy a dictionary

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"restrained" seems to contrast with "gonzoish"--is that the point?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

james i'm not sure that i agree with that abt their emotional range: i agree yorke's voice stands hugely in the way of r'head's wider range being apparent (i have to say that the tv footage of glasto made me suddenly "get it" where i've always before HATED his voice and as a result not been able to listen)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

sterling in puckish juxtaposition shocka!!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(sorry for all the x-posts...)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Radiohead even deal in emotions? Everything they've released since _OK Computer_ has been an exercise in sound-collage and criticizing them for limited emotional range seems to be missing the point of their music (or at least the point I'm seeing).

(I may be exaggerating for rhetorical effect here.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

mark please point me towards the happy radiohead tune (note: sounding like u2 /= happy)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeez, is there a happy Nirvana song?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought the whole nirvana comparison suggested the "safe" kind of inoffensiveness of yorke's voice. a much more bland range. i dunno, i mean at least cobain had the range of "unplugged" to "nevermind". yorke only has "httt" to "kid a (httt)"

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i meant it seems like a gonzo-crit type thing to do except instead of spinning it out and getting crazier and weirder with it he lets it become a bit absurd and then reels it back in to actually make a point.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

a-ha. thanks.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

''radiohead's emotional range (gloom, occasionally cranky) isn't nearly as wide ranging as nirvana's, and considering the article is partially about addressing the 'radiohead''

I'd say its fairly similar up to OK computer.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

ned: noone can owe that big a debt to the vaselines and not have their peppy moments

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

i think "inoffensive" is a bonkers description of yorke's voice!! (see above re hatred)

james i think "tune" is not to the point here: the sound r'head make if you screen out yorke has a wide sonic and emotional range is what i'm saying

i don't know the names of hardly any of their songs so i can't back this up with a graph sadly

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Hold on, are we talking 'peppy' or 'happy'?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

There aren't enough graphs in music articles.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

''i don't know the names of hardly any of their songs so i can't back this up with a graph sadly''

if you do it as contours you get rilly nice shapes ;)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Xgau is a fule.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i only say inoffensive as it seems their music in general is inoffensive (i.e. very placid and pastoral). i don't mean that in a bad way. i think his voice fits the music quite well actually.

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

mark - all I hear is u2 epic fading into cure epic with an occasional jaunt into smiths winsome (neverminding 'creep' - second best bush song ever - and their explorations of the warp catalogue - which ain't exactly where you're gonna find happy lala banana splits)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

and I like radiohead, but do hurry and write your 'in between days' or 'friday I'm in love' already!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i think mark is right. yorke's voice imposes a certain opacity/distance that the music on its own doesn't necessarily reflect.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, there are plenty of things that irk me about that review, but that Africa thing really annoys me.

Thom Yorke is a white guy from England. He sings like a white guy from England. He's being himself, basically. Why is that a problem? Why is that not a good thing? Oh, right. White people should be ashamed of their very existence. I forgot about that.

The notion that there is something wrong with the guy because his voice is indicative of his race and background boggles my mind. It's unfair, it's ridiculous, it has nothing to do assessing with the quality of the music on its own terms. It's like saying "I guess this apple is no good because it doesn't have a little Florida in it, like an orange."

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

ok well my almost entire exposure to has been tv broadcasts of live shows (glasto twice, jools/later, plus that totp perf back when), so my sense of them is v.skewed possibly

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

strom thurmond ain't dead after all

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah well matthew since that's not what xgau's saying you can get all unirked i guess

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Happy Radiohead tunes:

"Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors"
"Pyramid Song"
"Electioneering"
"I Might Be Wrong"
"Lucky"
"There There"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

matthew: why should music be assessed on it's own terms? (which btw christgau does, read the piece)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

''Thom Yorke is a white guy from England. He sings like a white guy from England. He's being himself, basically''

no no he is an opera singer that is why Dan likes him ;-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

dan - I almost thought of 'electioneering' when I almost wrote 'where's radiohead's "territorial pissings"?'

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoyed the article, and I felt, summed up what most people are really thinking anyway.

However, I hope when I get as old as Christgau, I don't still care this much about music.

Or maybe I do.

― David Allen, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

God, "Myxomatosis" is fucking fantastic, isn't it?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

(oh no, this is cross-posted with refutations of itself!)

I'm unconvinced of Radiohead's emotional range, to be honest: possibly I'm not as adept as Mark at "screening Yorke out," but none of their sonic diversions manage to change the tone very forcibly. I think the singularity this creates around them is a big part of why they're popular in the way that they are: they look like "the only rock band that matters" because they're one of few rock bands to pick such a not-ingratiating path and follow it so single-mindedly.

Point of comparison: Disintegration. The tone of Radiohead since Kid A reminds me of parts of this record, with two major differences. The first difference is a good one: Radiohead can get cranky and frantic in ways Disintegration rarely attempted, and the Cure has never sounded as ominously or excitingly spazzy as anything like "National Anthem." The second difference is the one that bothers me: Radiohead remind me of Disintegration, but stripped of every moment of earnest or even hopeful beauty. They will not, from what I can tell, ever again do anything like a "Plainsong" or a "Pictures of You." (And even when they did do them, they didn't turn out so well: "High and Dry" / "Stop Whispering...")

Or maybe they will, and they'll just hide it away: last week on M2 I caught Yorke playing "True Love Waits" and was satisfied for the first time. This was the range, the shift, the relief, that was missing from the past three records -- of which I liked Amnesiac best probably because its odd-and-ends format actually lent it that sense of topography. Radiohead sometimes do sound to me like one long moan, albeit a pretty glorious one with some immaculately assembled music; all I ask for is the occasional moment of hitting land or breaking down or seeking peace, no matter how undercut or troubled or complicated it might be. (Which is basically a repeat of what I said here however long ago about Radiohead doing tension with no release: let them bubble up bright or dream pretty for thirty seconds, even, and I'll be on board.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Now that I think about it, they may have confused their sonic progression -- slicing out all the strummy guitar tunes -- with an emotional one, because they sliced out most traces of a smile, however wounded, along with it.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark S: It's not what he means to say, but I definitely think it is in his subtext.

James: Music should be assessed on its own terms out of fairness and common sense, basically. I think that anyone who should consider themselves to be a decent and professional critic should consider each work of art on its own terms as well as how it relates in the context of the culture at large. Ultimately, I believe that the larger context is much less important, and when writers focus on that (as Christgau certainly does) it ceases to be about the piece of art and more about how that art relates to their set of biases and their limited understanding of something much larger than themselves.

Too much of this review is spent trying to contextualize Radiohead within a world that exists entirely in the head of one man, informed mostly by other people who have a similarly skewed and myopic view of culture and art.

So I say: fuck context. Trying to fit things into a percieved context of the world reveals only the biases, ego, and limited understanding of the critic, and are not very helpful in the long run.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Nabisco, the entire point is that the SMILE IS IN THE MUSIC. Don't make me list every Radiohead song that proves this (to me).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is emotional range SO IMPORTANT?

― Andy K (Andy K), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

some bands 'matter' more to some ppl and not others. radiohead matter too much to rock critics unfortunately.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Andy K - emotional range shouldn't be so important. Not every artist should be expected to do everything. That's just ridiculous. I mean, can you name an artist that realistically covers a wide range of emotions? There can't be too many. Most folks tend to specialize, you know?

Radiohead don't cover every emotion that a person can have, but they do cover a lot of nuances within their limited emotional palette, which I think is a major part of their appeal. I think that they are good at capturing lots of in-between emotions, which isn't always easy. Think of it like you're mixing paint - it's like they've got a knack for mixing very specific obscure shades and hues of green and blue.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is emotional range SO IMPORTANT?

Because Kurt taught us how to feel, man. *sob*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

how on earth do you figure that as his subtext? stating that Yorke's singing contains basically no traces of Africa in it isn't any kind of problem unless you decide to make it one, and Xgau doesn't. you do.

and why shouldn't emotional range be important? there would be just as much of a problem if the Ramones had been the biggest band in the world, too--as in, gee, how does something with such preconceived limits reach so many people? (and haha Ned but get real, that's not what he's saying at all)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

hey i'll scribble my name on a piece of paper. i am emo.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

or more to the point isn't any kind of statement-that-there-is-a-problem unless etc.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Emotional range is (sometimes) important in order to keep (certain types of) records from getting a bit dull and monotonous. It's not exactly critical, but with an emotionalist project it's worth hoping for.

Dan: I dunno, you can list, I guess, but I never hear anything really cut through. I'm not asking for "happy," obviously, since I'm counting "True Love Waits" as part of what I'm looking for; it just all feels a bit like watching Sisyphus push the boulder up the hill, except without the part where it rolls back down, or like watching Prometheus chained to the rock, except the birds never come. That's just me.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"Life In A Glass House"!!!!
"Lucky"!!!!
"Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors"!!!!
"Pyramid Song"!!!!
"Let Down"!!!!
"Just"!!!!
"Sit Down, Stand Up"!!!!
"Myxomatosis"!!!!
"Idioteque"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

M Matos: then why even bring the Africa thing up at all? It's a total nonissue. It's a no brainer. Why make a point of it?

Also, Michaelangelo - who do you think out there has a wide emotional range?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, even on their happy songs Thom sounds like he's watching his mother get beaten (smile in the music or no).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"Just" is angry. "Idioteque" is apocalyptically afraid. "Let Down" is the closest to a bonafide happy sounding song I can gather from that list.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

With every passing day I grow more confident in my decision to not listen to this album. It's in the changer and I almost got caught today & wound up hearing the opening thirty seconds or so but then I realized what was going on and listened to the new Nevermore instead

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony: I'm not asking for "happy," obviously, since I'm counting "True Love Waits" as part of what I'm looking for

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

matos's posts have little moldova in them.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm actually glad they don't write happy songs, cuz they'd probably sound like Coldplay then.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting.

ams: "moldova"?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"africa" still doesn't seem germane to me except as an indicator of christgau's bugaboos and preconceptions.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

matos i like your posts in spite of their lack of moldavic qualities.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

How many people realistically expect one artist to cover all of their listening needs in terms of emotional range? I guess if you're only going to listen to one artist it'll get tedious very quickly, but if you've got anything even close to a well rounded record collection (which I think most people do, in their own way), you're probably going to go to different artists for different emotions, different ideas, different occasions. So it really doesn't matter if one artist only is good at covering three or four basic emotions. Someone else will compensate.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

matthew you answer your own question: why even bring the Africa thing up at all? - as well as how it relates in the context of the culture at large. also, the notion that radiohead is painted as the only band that matters, the band that's gonna save the world with wail wail wail, exists only in xgau's head is ludicrous (see: any tagline to any radiohead cover story post-ok computer).

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

and the notion that 'africa' (and all that word apparently implies) is irrelevant to the culture at large and just a quirk of xgau's, like he's complaining there's no harmonica on the record (and btw, he's not even complaining there's no africa in yorke's voice), is ludicrous as well

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah the piece seems pretty good to me and I'm a Radiohead fan, I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

"guy"="go" above, sorry

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

all right, never mind all my smarmy posts above. the moldava thing was just dumb.

part of what i'm saying is rather simplye: it's disingenuous to say "africa" when he means "rhythm and blues"! if he actually means "africa" then it is simply not germane. (saying "rhythm and blues" isn't terribly germane either, but it's not risible.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

as far as wide emotional range, let's see: Atmosphere, Neil Young, the Streets, Ghostface Killah, Sleater-Kinney, Scarface, Missy Elliott, the Mountain Goats, Baaba Maal, Neko Case, Rancid, Sonic Youth, Aesop Rock, the Reputation, Mr. Lif, DJ Shadow, Queens of the Stone Age, Meshell Ndegeocello, Stephin Merritt in whatever guise, the Mekons, Rjd2, Drive-By Truckers, Spoon, Imperial Teen, Cee-Lo, Cornershop, Raphael Saadiq, Pink, Sugababes, the Rapture, No Doubt, Nas, Eminem, Pet Shop Boys, the White Stripes, Elvis Costello, Pretty Girls Make Graves, and about 100 other bands all seem a little more wide-ranging emotionally to me than Radiohead, who even when I enjoy them seem to occupy a pretty narrow range. which is fine--microhouse occupies a VERY narrow range and it's my favorite music right now.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

you have to be living on another planet to believe that "Africa" = "rhythm & blues"

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

why is saying/meaning 'africa' not germane? was it germane when eno said it?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm confused now, because earlier you (Matos) said: " why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting."

So is he invoking r&b, or african music, or what?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"Matos, what's that music you're listening to?"
"Well, dude, it's this hot mbalax record from Senegal."
"Gee, those rhythms are kind of weird, and it's kind of angular tonally. But it sounds really cool, I like it."
"That's because it's rhythm & blues!" [winks at camera]

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(Microhouse - expectant sadness or stunned bliss, Matos?)

― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(both, Cozen. it's breakbeat hardcore's flipside--expectant comedown and frenzied bliss)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

B-b-but...

I can't see why Christgau would mention Africa if he simply meant that Yorke's voice had little mbalax (or juju, or Afrobeat) in it? And this is different from Cobainbuckleyknowlesdioncreedaguilera how? I get the sense that "Africa" is meant to invoke some tradition which includes r&b and leaves out guys like Yorke.... which I think is misguided and disingenuous.

I hope this doesn't turn ugly because I'm not trying to make fun of you or anything, Matos, I'm honestly a bit confused at this point.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, I can see yr point, but saying "Africa" is also a way of saying "not remotely European." I think Xgau has written about Yorke as an inheritor of Euro art music tradition, and I certainly buy that. (also "Africa" reads better in that context than "rhythm & blues" which w/Xgau is always plenty of the point)

xpost

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

in other words, he's saying "this guy sounds completely European and not remotely African, African-American, or American" (which in Xgau's definition always retains some or plenty of Africa)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

This is like The Dream ILM Thread! Xgau + Racism + Overdiscussed Band!! Where's Momus?

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(the mbalax post was just me having fun, btw)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Sonny A. otm!!! I better get out of here...

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish he could describe how yorke sounds european in terms a bit more vivid and concrete. better than "pretentious college boy" at least!

(don't we all wish we could describe music in terms that are more vivid and concrete!!)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess the whole dichotomy being set up--africa on one side and "pretentious college boy" on the other--felt a bit schematic/reductionist to me and does a disservice not just to yorke but to africa and r&b etc. but it's no biggy, i'll admit.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

except he's not saying "no africa = pretentious college boy", he's saying "'Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common = pretentious college boy"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the problem comes because he's been putting these terms forth for years, in much more concrete ways, elsewhere and in other pieces, and he definitely expects his readership to catch the x-references. so those of us who read him a lot (like me) do, and he alienates lots of other folx. not sure what to say to that except shrug.

but there's no dichotomy being set up! he's using lack-of-Africa as a description of Yorke's vocal style--it's a parenthetical comment, used to shade the comment. he's referred to De La Soul as pretentious college boys too and you won't see him refusing to say they're African.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost duh)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

you're right! mea culpa.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

...which translates to "heavens! i kill you know ;)"

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - people whining about xgau refusing to accept radiohead on their own terms (which he doesn't even do, he just makes note of the terms) need to accept xgau on his own terms

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.sciencefiction.com/movies/images/exorcisttwist.jpg

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you quite sure he wasn't making a reference to the singer of the prog band Africa?

― Gavin, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I like pretentious college boys.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It wuz a Toto reference I think.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Strangely enough, Yorke's voice actually does remind me of the reedy, high-pitched, nasal inflections that I've heard in some traditional African singing (cf. Ethiopiques: Vol. 5).

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

Change "Xgau" to "pretty much every writer for the Village Voice except for sometimes Douglas Wolk" and you're OTM. Really, if anything is manifesting itself in my posts in this thread, it is just a full-on disgust with the writing/critique style typical of the Village Voice music section. It's a philosophical difference in how art and music should be discussed.

So, I've got a question. What about all the other white Europeans and Americans who don't have any trace of "Africa" in their singing voice and in their music. What about them? How is observing that Thom Yorke's voice isn't at all like an African's a unique thing about his music compared to loads of other musicians? It's hardly like he's alone in being a popular white singer who doesn't affect mannerisms that people would normally associate with black singers of any nationality.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Er... Toto, right.

― Gavin, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - people whining about xgau refusing to accept radiohead on their own terms (which he doesn't even do, he just makes note of the terms) need to accept xgau on his own terms

I think that depends on whether or not you are willing to consider writing music reviews for free newspapers given away on the street corner to be an artform.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that writing music reviews for publications that one would have to pay for in any way better or worse, mind you.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

matthew did you read the black (haha) parts of the quote you pulled up top, or just the read parts

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

a whore like the rest >>>>>>> "high and dry"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Did he read anything, is the question. Or did he just start projecting right away.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"james taylor marked for death" >>>>>>>>>> james taylor's "everyday"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

trying to understand the eagles >>>>>>>>>>> "get over it"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, I concede a number of points to Michaelangelo re: Christgau's description of Yorke's voice. I was being very unfair to Christgau, this is true. I'll go sit in the corner for an hour for being reactionary.

I still think the review was lame.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

trying to understand the eagles >>>>>>>>>>> "get over it"

TS: Radiohead vs Eagles vs POX Eagles

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Posting on ILM while in calm, level-headed state >>>>>> Posting while in annoyed, irritable mood.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Robert Christgau is absolutely fucking awful.

― Evan (Evan), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

get over it Evan!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I like pretentious college boys.

so does Xgau, as anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention to him ever can attest

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

christgau is awesome and w/o ilm i never would have discovered him. ilm, i kiss you!

― disco stu (disco stu), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

so does Xgau, as anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention to him ever can attest

Matos, one day you will be famous enough that people will assume you are saying Xgau is gay. They may even start threads about it.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Side issue:
I wonder how many yuppies got into world music after reading the reams and reams of good press Xgau wrote about Afropop?
(Or does Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon get all the credit for acquainting the golf and croquet crowd to m'bube/m'baqanga/m'balax?)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

It's always interesting to read one of these epic threads from post #1 to post #472 all at once, see the ebbs and flows of the conversation, alliances made and broken, grudges and biases lovingly exposed. I love message boards.

I'm probably not reading enough into it, but my general impression of the piece was: jeez, they might be the best Band That Matters we've got, but it sure would be nice if they were actually better. Being in the "I like Radiohead but..." camp, I'm sympathetic. I think the only generation gap that shows up here is nothing to do with taste and mostly to do with how much you thing it matters to have a Band That Matters. I think Christgau cares more about that than I do, and I even kind of understand why. But it doesn't invalidate his perspective, and I think he's fun to read. Of course he's a pretentious college boy, and he's writing for an audience of "pretentious college boys" (a demographic group that, of course, includes lots of men and women of all ages), and so when he puts down something as being too "pretentious college boy," he's assuming his audience will get the joke. I think he's one of the funniest writers out there, and that's why I like him. I like his jokes.

― JesseFox (JesseFox), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

thing=think

My culpa.

― JesseFox (JesseFox), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

disclaimer: Xgau, to a large extent, is why I am here. I laughed out loud four times (with, not at) when reading the article the first time through.

I read "Africa" here as a stand-in for rhythm, both in terms of influence and contemporary product (in that the chief marginal distinction of the continent's music, writ large, is its rhythmic qualities, i bushwa). The piece ends up quite clearly on a (re)statement of Xgau's aesthetic position - he favors foregrounding rhythm over harmony, on principle. In practice, Radiohead does not (though Xgau liked Kid A because it veered into something approximating a groove).

doesn't this:

"But no matter who's right, if anyone is, the future of Hail to the Thief is unlikely to have much bearing on the future of rock or anything else."

suggest that there is NOTHING going on there?

he's referring to what the album represents (privileging non-rhythmic elements in "rock" music), not the album itself. he considers the album pleasant, though not necessarily his style, as i understand it.

a.k.a. "the narcissism of small differences: part MCMXIII"

Then what do you make of his Distinctions Not Cost-Effective trope?

I should read the whole piece, but the deep irony of ending that paragraph with "this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy" is staggering me.

said before, but this pretty much approximates his stated perception of his audience. and considering his self-description as a "peculiar combination of pretentious and unpretentious" (paraphrase, perhaps), it's at least somewhat self-referential.

christgau's pretty far along in his critical career for the idea that compelling music can be made without obvious reference to af-american idioms to be such a revelation!!!

he's been putting classical music down for 35 years. but he said similar half-nice things about a prog-record or two in the 70s book.

ditto.

oh, and ha, my immediate first two responses to who has emotional range - S-K and Baaba Maal.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I have this picture of ILXORS and their record collections with recs filed in terms of 'emotions': the 'sad' recs on one corner, the 'happy' recs on another and so on. all the emotions are alphabetised, of course.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 07:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, I get the feeling that people are equating 'narrow emotional range' with 'not happy' which just doesn't make sense.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

"Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes ..."

Fraught and self-involved, sure; but Thom's actually a really funny guy. I guess if you don't think things like The Castle or Buffalo 66 are funny, or can't see the humor built into personas from Bryan Ferry's to Mark E. Smith's, or haven't really listened to the lyrics ... "Karma Police" is a funny song; so are "My Iron Lung" and even "Fake Plastic Trees." "Living in a Glass House" is positively silly. People are too credulous about all the 'despair.'

Oh, and "Sulk," if not quite cheery, is a pretty bracing tune.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Evan, is there anyone in the world you actually like?

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

duh, himself

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

haha

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i would really like to know how matthews philosophy differs from the voices

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

y'know, before my next piece runs

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

dude don't think so much

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Buffalo 66 isn't funny

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

plz can we have another 800 post thread by morning otherwise I'll be v disappointed.

your wish is my command!

― the genie of the lamp (dog latin), Thursday, 3 July 2003 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Buffalo 66 isn't funny

well i'm glad that's settled ...

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Hi Brian -- don't know if you've posted here before, but I just wanted to let you know I've enjoyed your writing for the Reader. (And you gave a good review to a theatre production I was involved in, so yeah!) Also: Buffalo 66 is, too, funny.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

so! are radiohead still all white guys, then?

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah but one of them's got a fucked up eye!

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

quick please someone photoshop hootie into a radiohead band photo.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

or dan perry

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

quick please someone photoshop hootie into dan perry

― Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

and put some bootyflakes on top.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

for the first (and hopefully last) time, dude's name is not hootie. twas a friend of theirs.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

he is hootie in our hearts.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

and put some bootyflakes on top.

i'd like to see Oolong wear that!

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/2003736220157000832004.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

it's so cute when people defend Buffalo 66!

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

:-0

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

C'mon, though, Ben Gazzara? Priceless!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

or rather, THIS Oolong!

http://www.syberpunk.com/images/oolong/pancake3.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Radiohead pays more attention to rhythm than most other rock bands I can think of today, the examples are countless and they definitely know their way around a groove (and for me, the odd-time stuff serves more of a purpose than ye olde prog-rock).

Buffalo 66 is hilarious.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks jaymc ... what show?

[it's so cute when people defend Buffalo 66!]

well i'm glad that's settled ...

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

shit. it won't post the picture of Oolong, the Rabbit What Wears a Panckage on His Head

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

thanx to jordan for parroting xgau

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Brian: I work with Tangerine Arts Group, who did Phantasia & Wyrd's Sybaritic Shadow Show last November. At least I think you reviewed that, yes?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

more attention to rhythm does not =! old idm skin grafts

they don't have a rhythm guitarist to save their life

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

jaymc: that was me all right.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only skimmed the article, but I thought he was saying that they are more about melody and harmony than rhythm?

Oddly enough, Myxomatosis has elements in common with some African folkloric music in that it basically feels like a triple meter and a duple meter at the same time (two speeds of duple time really, since it has that 2:3 polyrhythm going through it).

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 July 2003 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I've read that Radiohead worship Bitches Brew ...

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

... for whatever that's worth.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Friday, 4 July 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I can see them appreciating it on a sound level. And a pretension level. I'd like them better if they worshipped In a Silent Way (ha) or better yet Jack Johnson, tho I consider the latter more of a McLaughlin record than a Miles record (which may be ignorant of the latter's arrangements).

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 4 July 2003 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

They do worship In a Silent Way.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 4 July 2003 03:49 (twenty-two years ago)

shit. it won't post the picture of Oolong, the Rabbit What Wears a Panckage on His Head
http://www.rutgers.edu/~ryates/brett/dragonball/dbshot3.gif
Do you mean this one? (I always thought he was a piglet.)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 July 2003 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Aaargh! It's an anti-Oolong conspiracy!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 July 2003 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

let's try this Oolong:

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/2003751903893294663221.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

hey, that one worked.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Wonder when they'll get around to worshipping 'You're Under Arrest' - oh, Sting beat them to it!

― dave q, Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

will the next hood album receive this much attention?

― keith (keithmcl), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh...I thought you meant the Dragonball Z character.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 6 July 2003 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

nope -- just as japanese, but not as entertaining as a rabbit with a pancake on his head.

in fact, if you do a GIS, you can find a lovely pic of him with a roll of toilet paper on his head.

this leads me to believe that the japanese are the greatest people on the planet, except for that whole "gang-rape as a popular fixture of hentai anime/porn" thing.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Sunday, 6 July 2003 06:34 (twenty-one years ago)

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