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Pazz, Jop

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http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/xgautest.php

― Sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to bed now

― Sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Anyone expecting me to claim that our Georgia-based winners resolve this dilemma should get serious. But the metaphors are there. My hot year in hip-hop wasn't like the critics' because it was more critical. Only four of the 13 hip-hop albums on the Dean's List are mainstream, and though both of my undie-rap top-10s are by nonblacks, all but two of the others are African American—unlike most undie-rap fans, and also unlike most name undie-rappers."

Wow, Xgau's undie AND black! How does he do it?!

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, and thanks for calling us all racist motherfucker! i love how you half-heartedly indicted yourself just to keep up appearances, only to return much later in the article to the fact that you listen to WAY more black people than the average Pazz 'n' Jopper!

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

josh- he's the DEAN!!!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

one more thing: fuck you for calling anyone "pathetic" who would vote for Ted Leo and Jigga over that mush-headed Lifesavas tripe.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

*cue Dean scream*

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

You do have to remember that your opinions don't count because he's a professional, and ILM's "rolls are larded with part-timers who buy many records and miss many more. And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio."

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The original was:

"Our rolls (Pazz & Jop) are larded with part-timers who buy many records and miss many more. And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio. "

But still his abuse of people who are just starting music criticism or people not paid to work fulltime on music criticism jars with me as obnoxious - he wants criticism to be filled with people like him who understand the truth.

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

reminds me of the utterly childish potshots he took at pitchfork last year...i'm not always a fan of the 'fork, but since I also write for a webzine it did hit a little too close to home.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

The thing is Robert Christgau DOES listen to more records than me! It's unarguable! It doesn't mean I trust him more (I'm a Europhile, he definitely isn't, for one thing) but all he was doing is saying that P&J reflects a certain consensus and that 'surprise' records don't often break through due to the weight of numbers who've not heard them.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ding ding ding

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean there's plenty of stuff i don't agree with in the essay (this is not a test as missy's first "real" album?? uh wtf; der deans usual myopia wtf-ness irt dance music) but let's at least pick the right ones.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Josh OTM

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and hey, much like democracy, p&j IS larded with the weight of the people: 1,400 entrants! that's too many by anyones standards, but i respect them not keeping it closed off to an internal cabal (ala, oh, every other magazines list.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean I almost didn't vote for albums this year, it's a mockery, I've only bothered listening to about 30 all the way through (same as any year to be honest). Singles on the other hand I feel I can talk about, but I voted for my albums anyway because i) it might be compulsory and ii) my #s 1 and 2 needed the points.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

but i respect them not keeping it closed off to an internal cabal (ala, oh, every other magazines list.)

But they do keep it closed! You have to be a professional rock critic to vote, right?

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not that I have a problem with hoping that people who vote in P&J have listened to a great deal of records, just with how it's phrased.

a) lot's of full-time music critics are happy to ignore most music as well

b) newbies are often more likely to listen to lots of new music

c) dismissing people who buy albums instead of being given them by record companies is just stupid.

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

But they do keep it closed! You have to be a professional rock critic to vote, right?

yes, and you have to be 18 and a citizen to vote in us elections...the indignities just never end, do they?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

But they do keep it closed! You have to be a professional rock critic to vote, right?

*ahem*

*looks innocent*

― Hardcore Amateurs (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Racist? Us? Can't be. It's just that Euro-Americans make more aesthetically commanding popular music than African Americans

Jeez, just because somebody happens to prefer music made be white people to music made by black people doesn't make them racist.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Xgau got clued in to Hongro!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, maybe hardcore amateurs should have their own poll - I'd love to see the results.

X-post x 2

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Do I read the essay correctly and see that Justified finished #46!? Below the friggin' perennial alt-losers the Jayhawks?!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I myself kinda thought Justin's been overrated last year, but c'mon!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

It got caught in the 2002/03 crossover period didn't it? Came out November - I didn't consider it for this one.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Anybody know when voting can start, and when it finishes?

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

well ballots are usually due in (very) early january...so really anything in the preceeding 12 month period is game.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not a professional critic and don't know anything about Paz and Jop except for the results, but I remember reading an article linked off an ILM board where the author was complaining about how hip hop press doesn't participate in the p&j poll, and noticed that Christgau comments on this (at least by my reading) with the following:

"Obviously the poll's imperfect. We never get out the hip-hop press."

Anyone know why the "hip-hop press" isn't part of the poll.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Doesn't Chuck always try to get a lot of the writers, though? I think he'd mentioned this before.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It's possible. Someone posted an article to another board where the author was criticizing the new Da Capo issue for having only three articles on black artists and only one or two written by women, and buried in that article was a comment that editors from The Source and I believe 2 or 3 other hip hop mags were never sent ballots for the p&j.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The article I am referring to can be found here by Jeff Chang:

http://www.sfbg.com/38/15/art_music_white.html

Near the bottom he mentions how writers of The Source and Vibe don't vote, but from re-reading this section, it could be that they just can't be bothered, which isn't P&J's fault.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Xgau I believe has always claimed in the past that they've sent out ballots to lots of hiphop writers but he's said that the writers have not been sending the ballots back. As you noted Jeff Chang touched on this on his blog and in his criticism of the Da Capo anthology.

I noticed that some writers for African, Latin, Caribbean world music magazine The Beat were not included in last year's list of voters. I don't know though whether they were sent ballots and didn't respond or just never received ballots.

Dave Marsh's Rock and Rap Confidential newsletter used to do a poll and he had an even larger voting membership. I believe he had a lot more contributors from around the world, while pazz and jop is/was largely American.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave Marsh's Rock and Rap Confidential newsletter used to do a poll and he had an even larger voting membership. I believe he had a lot more contributors from around the world, while pazz and jop is/was largely American.

And the end-result was that (IIRC) black music did even worse in those polls.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, maybe not worse. Even though Marsh had been fulminating against what he perceived to be a P&J Anglophilia/Fear of a Black Planet for years, there didn't seem to be any obvious difference between the rockrap and P&J results (though I think Kid A finished even higher than on P&J!) and I didn't notice any marked improvements in hip-hop representation.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry if I'm blind, but is the full P&J list online somewhere?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Not yet. By typing 'Christgau' (or whatever) in the Article Search box, you can get to see the Consumer Guide (or whatever) a day before it's actually listed on the front page. Which is how I found this article.

― slb, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

It will probably be up tomorrow.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess talks about 1,400 entrants but in that Christgau essay I think he says that only some 500 or so voted for singles.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"So though some 1,461 different singles were cited by the 508 voters (out of 732, up from 2002's 695, hubba hubba) who listed singles, the consensus naturally favored songs that had gotten through gates narrower than Google's or Kazaa's."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

How much more diverse/exciting/indie/undie/whatever it is that XGau hopes for do you think Pazz and Jop would be if voters submitted 20 albums rather than 10?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess OTM back there re: part-timers but that doesn't explain the rest of this:

And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio.

How does he know and who is he referring to? [which I dunno if I'm being defensive about this re: PFM (that would be a first for me!) - esp. after Xtgau's mostly correct Wrens/BSS/indie article - but of the six staffers that I know were invited to vote, not one of them falls into that category.]

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

And they're joined annually by newbies who learned to write from literary theorists and honed their opinionizing skills in the dog-eat-dog cenacles of college radio.

This statement's also a bit hypocritical coming from a highly opionated huge dog in the process of yumming down puppy.

― Jedmond, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

from a quick scan on second read, i did have trouble parsing a few sentences.

1. outkast
2. white stripes
3. fountains of wayne

4 or 5: yeah yeah yeahs

top 15: dizzee rascal

23. libertines

top 40: missy elliott, bubba sparxxx, warren zevon, drive-by-truckers, postal service, rapture, broken social scene, cat power

top 40? my morning jacket, ted leo, fiery furnaces, mars volta

― andrew s (andrew s), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

So does he want affirmative action? For every album by a white performer, you must nominate an album by a black performer, preferably in an identifiably "black" genre? I tell you, nothing will get critics listening to hip-hop faster than being told that not doing so brands them as racists. I know I'm sure gonna run down to Tower and load up.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess ilm's immediate response of covering ears and yelling I CANT HEAR YOU (or 'why are you talking about that!! stop talking about that!!') to anyone who wants to discuss racial issues irt music is par for the course for most rich yankee liberals but its still culturally irresponsible

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Christgau on a lot of points he makes here, but you guys are right, he shouldn't have said them. He should just keep his damned mouth shut, never be controversial, only ever prop up the prevailing system of reviewing, where people listen to and write about the stuff that they feel "most comfortable" with. Yeah, that's what it's all about. I mean, who the fuck is this old geezer to somehow think that he can tell us anything anyway? Let HIM put himself on the line sometime, let HIM write some reviews, and THEN he can talk shit!

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

or, b2d otm

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Rich?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i knew ppl wd be chiming in w 'but i only own 1500 cds and three vintage analogue synths!!', i grew up poor enough that rich means lower middle class or above so if you still care you can substitute 'well off' or whatever

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

He can say whatever he likes. I take it with a grain of salt cuz i already know that he loves tons of stuff that i consider boring and whitebread. or has in the past anyhow. plus, i find it hard to relate to anyone who thinks getting THE BEST DAMN GUITAR SOLO OF THE YEAR out of bruce springsteen is something worth celebrating. having said that, he is a fine writer and i enjoy disagreeing with him.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks for the ups $ but this whole Yankee-bad thing can go away any old time.

"yeah, as soon as people stop demonizing the South!"

okay fair point.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew, also add to what we know:

17. Postal Service
34. Death Cab for Cutie

(haha, we'll know everything in, like, two hours anyway)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

outkast
white stripes
fountains of wayne
led zeppelin
yeah yeah yeahs

i was very close yesterday

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

haha considering how much nyc shit i listen to i obv dont hate yankees but they usually seem even less informed on (or willfully ignorant of) american racial issues than uk ilxers

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

'get over it!! the 60s were a long time ago!! are you suggesting AFFIRMATIVE ACTION?!?!!'

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ALBUMS
1 OutKast Speakerboxxx/The Love Below (Arista)
2 The White Stripes Elephant (V2)
3 Fountains of Wayne Welcome Interstate Managers (S-Curve)
4 Radiohead Hail to the Thief (Capitol)
5 Yeah Yeah Yeahs Fever to Tell (Interscope)
6 The Shins Chutes Too Narrow (Sub Pop)
7 New Pornographers Electric Version (Matador)
8 Basement Jaxx Kish Kash (Astralwerks)
9 Drive-By Truckers Decoration Day (New West)
10 Dizzee Rascal Boy in Da Corner (XL import)

SINGLES
1 OutKast "Hey Ya!" (Arista)
2 Beyoncé featuring Jay-Z "Crazy in Love" (Columbia)
3 The White Stripes "Seven Nation Army" (Third Man/V2)
4 Kelis "Milkshake" (Star Trak/Arista)
5 50 Cent "In Da Club" (G-Unit/Shady/Aftermath/Interscope)
6 Johnny Cash "Hurt" (Universal)
7 Fountains of Wayne "Stacy's Mom" (S-Curve/Virgin)
8 R. Kelly "Ignition-Remix" (Jive)
9 Junior Senior "Move Your Feet" (Atlantic)
10 Panjabi MC featuring Jay-Z "Beware of the Boys (Mundian To Bach Ke)"
(Sequence)

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

you'd find a lot of people who'd say that about the south! some of them would be wrong.

yeah jaymc, we also know that El Gran Silencio didn't finish in the top 10 too, so add that to the list YOU BASTARDS (except SS, he knows the truth)

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think anybody's offered a cogent solution yet outside of "feel the guilt you corny indie fux." Expanding people's lists from ten to twenty miiight but that would double the data entry workload.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm totally keen on the idea that people should listen to what they're comfortable with, pop's not an assault course. I just would prefer it if some people were comfortable with more stuff.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost- fucking god thats awful

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, indie is back!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow! Basement Jaxx and Dizzee both top 10!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

grr

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

where is Sean Paul on that singles list!!!??? i demand a recount!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the actual VV site hasn't posted the rest of the list yet. More curious about the rest of the list.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, genuine question, my only experience of the Fountains Of Wayne was the "I Want An Alien For Christmas" single (awful but Isabel liked it) - who are they and what are they doing on both lists?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

is that fountains of wayne song really better than either one of sean paul's smash hit singles? i've never heard it. but i can't believe that it is.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i picked six or so of the top 10 singles - i'm not sure if this is good or bad!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"Stacy's Mom" is textbook power-pop.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

fountains of wayne?! ugh.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Fountains of Wayne are OK and all, but I'm gonna get all histrionic and shit and suggest that, yeah, its placement at #3 represents sheer reactionary terror in the face of hip-hop grabbing the world-historical brass ring.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i got that fountains of wayne album for my wife's sister and she put it on during christmas and i couldn't tell you anything about it. it went right by me. completely inocuous.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I know that I'm like one of the five or so ppl here that doesn't hate Outkast these days (along with Miccio, Geir, Nickalicious and Perry....wow, we should hold a FAP, that'd be some party!), but can I just say....

WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Take THAT, Jack-boo-hoo-hip-hop-sux0r-I-guess-I-liked-Nirvana White!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i only put TWO of the singles and NOT ONE OF THE ALBUMS LIST!! i hate free weeklys so much right now

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't hate Outkast, but i voted for "Ghetto Musick" out of spite.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Yo me too Daniel!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Two singles, one album from the top 10. But apart from potentially the FOW there's nothing on the singles list I hate.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm more out of it than either of you, no albums and ONE single I think

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Every time it gets mentioned I think I post this, but that Fountains of Wayne album is the worst thing I've been persuaded to buy in years.

― rainman (rainman), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

One single and one album each in both my top tens.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

3 Fountains of Wayne Welcome Interstate Managers (S-Curve)
5 Yeah Yeah Yeahs Fever to Tell (Interscope)
6 The Shins Chutes Too Narrow (Sub Pop)
7 New Pornographers Electric Version (Matador)
9 Drive-By Truckers Decoration Day (New West)

ive never even heard of any of these records outside of ilm!!!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone who voted for fountains of wayne voted for wilco last time. i'll betcha.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

no albums. no singles.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

ive never even heard of any of these records outside of ilm!!!!

Dude, you should get out more or...something.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

id really be interested to see ppls ballots!!! i will post mine when i get home this afternoon

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

They'll all be posted on the site anyway.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha yes michael... out...

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

At least I hope so cos I didnt keep a copy of mine.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i wonder how many of those 'singles' have even been played outside of ppls messy bedrooms

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

ok thats unfair actually i guess i just meant johnny cash and white stripes

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, here's my albums list:

Children of Bodom - Hate Crew Deathroll (Century Media)
Cradle of Filth - Damnation and a Day (Epic)
Miles Davis - The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions (Columbia)
Dimmu Borgir - Death Cult Armageddon (Nuclear Blast)
Ephel Duath - The Painter's Palette (Earache)
Gorgoroth - Twilight of the Idols: In Conspiracy With Satan (Nuclear Blast)
Killing Joke - Killing Joke (Epic)
The Mars Volta - De-Loused In the Comatorium (Universal)
Vital Remains - Dechristianize (Olympic)
Zyklon - Aeon (Candlelight)

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, FoW was about my 50th favorite record of the year. It's fine and all, but for something so basic and familiar that isn't truly exceptional to finish that high is pretty sad.

I voted for four on each list (including 8-9-10 on album list, so I feel like my points may have had an impact).

yay Drive-By Truckers!

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i hated thought i hated jr sr until i heard move your feet in the looney toons movie and tht it ws hall & oates!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

mine will be under my real name. i have no clue why i did that. Apologies for the redundancies. My ballot was very indie, but i promise that i would not have voted for Fountain of Wayne. Never even considered it.

Your Pazz & Jop albums ballot was submitted as follows:

1. Belle & Sebastian - Dear Catastrophe Waitress - Rough Trade (11 points)
2. Super Furry Animals - Phantom Power - Sony (10 points)
3. Paul Burch - Fool for Love - Blood Shot (10 points)
4. Fiery Furnaces - Gallowsbird's Bark - Sanctuary (10 points)
5. Deerhoof - Apple O' - Kill Rock Stars (10 points)
6. Rapture - Echoes - Universal (10 points)
7. Junior Senior - D-D-Don't Don't Stop the Beat - Atlantic (10 points)
8. British Sea Power - The Decline of British Sea Power - Sanctuary (10 points)
9. Clientele - The Violet Hour - Merge (10 points)
10. Holly Golightly - Truly She Is None Other - Damaged Goods (9 points)


Your Pazz & Jop singles ballot has been recorded as follows:

1. !!! - "Me and Giuliani Down by the School Yard (A True Story)" - Touch and Go
2. LCD Soundsystem - "Yeah (Stupid Version)" - DFA
3. David Banner - "Bush" - Universal
4. Dizzee Rascal - "Fix Up, Look Sharp" - Matador
5. Lumidee - "Never Leave You" - Universal
6. Fannypack - "Theme from Fannypack" - Tommy Boy
7. OutKast - "Ghetto Musick" - La Face
8. Broadcast - "Colour Me In" - Warp
9. Shins - "So Says I" - Sub Pop
10. Electric Six - "Gay Bar" - Import

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

are drive by truckers from athens?? i tht they were like an 80s band!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't remember if i voted for the drive-by truckers or not. i don't think i did. that's the only album from the top ten i have heard(all of). i'm one of those weirdos that christgau was talking about who buys lots of records but misses a lot. my singles list was short:Sean Paul/Sean Paul/LCD Soundsystem/Beyonce. I think. i honestly can't remember. i'll have to wait for the list to show up to remember properly.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

bush over like a pimp!!?!?!?

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

at least i hope that will be the headline come nov

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I think people's ballots should be in a seperate thread, just like last year.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard all the singles but 6 and 7 in pubs or clubs. All of them sent wherever I heard them mental except for R Kelly but that's probably cos I'm English, also I heard that coming out of cars often enough to make up. The White Stripes got played a LOT in 2ManyDJs / Electroclash style dance sets, and that song works best like that too.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post That's an awesome list, Phil. I haven't heard any of them though.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i've played "Bush" more times. it's the bitter hole in my heart.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Gorgoroth - Twilight of the Idols: In Conspiracy With Satan (Nuclear Blast)

I really thought this was gonna be Gorgoroth's year, Phil. Damned White Stripes!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree w/Michael about the separate thread, fwiw.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

well, then someone should start a super-duper-official thread for ballots and comments and all that stuff.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

ok i know this is my 'thing' and all but how can there only be ONE rap single in the top ten?! are all pazz n jops like this???

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to know if Jess still thinks it's the best singles list since '99!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

>I really thought this was gonna be Gorgoroth's year, Phil.

Wait till the live DVD comes out. Christraping black metal in '04!

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

'there was a lot of music last year, but one trend was undeniable- when it comes to hit singles, 2003 was the year of johnny cash and fountains of wayne'

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Did The Shins really make one of the greatest albums of the year? do i need to hear it? i don't know anything about them.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm, I just realized Led Zep's not in the top 10.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

the only thing I'm shocked about is how you guys have this unending capacity to feign shock and indignation.

― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

50 years from now who will ever forget the way that johnny cash and fountains of wayne shook the very foundations of pop music. changing it and shaping it into their own image.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Fountains of Wayne was in Christgau's Top 10. He also picked something by MC Hawking for his singles list!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

the only thing I'm shocked about is how you guys have this unending capacity to feign shock and indignation.

Al OTFM -- $, who are you trying to kid?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(As for me, two albums -- R'head, Jaxx -- and no singles, at least that I can recall.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah ned, al, im really sorry i cant feign your unending bored greyness instead

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

and this is my first pazz n jop!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean i really did think that get low wd be in singles and 50s cd in albums :(

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

haha Ned good one x/p
$ don't you see? the beyonce and kelis and panjabi songs ARE hip hop singles! and so is 'hey ya'! the critics have come through!

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

it's fun to feign shock.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm most surprised by the absence of "Get Low" as well.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

So the FOW are uncool, but apparently for some the New Pornographers are cool retro-powerpop because their lyrics are less noveltyish than FOW's powerpop "Stacey's Mom" and because the NPs are not on a major label and because they didn't do a tacky updated Mrs. Robinson from the Graduate for pre-teens video... 10 to 13 year-old American boys sure love FOW now, but I guess both FOW and NPs are uncool for those of you who prefer the Rapture's take on early 80s sounds. Early 80s retro is preferable to early 60s retro, is that it?

I like FOW's Utopia Parkway a bunch but haven't actually heard the whole new one.

Christgau or someone could write a whole 'nother essay on the various cultural, economic, and historic factors involved in explaining what music some writers feel comfortable with, and why there aren't more hiphop critics (and hiphop critics responding to the poll), and how interest in other African or African-American rooted music forms fits into the equation. He should expand on his shorthand charge of "institutional racism" sometime, and also explain his notions about fulltime paid critics vs part-timers.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah ned, al, im really sorry i cant feign your unending bored greyness instead

You mean Mr. "Heavens! I kill you now! :)"?

Didn't you at least try and check out past ones just to see what kind of mess you were contributing to?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i dont think im 'feigning' my shock that pazz n jop is playing it safer than the fuckign grammys

xpost: re get low

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think the new pornographers are cool.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

johnny cash = post-mortem sympathy vote
fountains of wayne = crank yankers vote

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

michael are they on the site? i remember a thread last year

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

10 to 13 year-old American boys sure love FOW now, but I guess both FOW and NPs are uncool for those of you who prefer the Rapture's take on early 80s sounds.

I proudly voted for all three of em, myself. And what's it to ya.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

and i only think those two good rapture songs are cool.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i dont think im 'feigning' my shock that pazz n jop is playing it safer than the fuckign grammys

Congratulations, you have a life lesson. Oh, and ';-)'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

those two good rapture songs

1) "Echoes, Side A"
2) "Echoes, Side B"

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i quite like indie pop/rock, but i didn't think that either the FoW or NP albums were the best to come out of that pigeonhole.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't have much problem with either list, but I'm non-committal like that. Of course, I care more about the stuff that DOESN'T make the Top 10 over what actually gets the spotlight, and instinctually rate that stuff BETTER than the stuff everyone liked - once a CIF, always a CIF (and that's Corny Indie Fuxor, not Caught In Flux, you trainspotter you). For the record, my lists would've been the same, but different, but I didn't get a vote (sniffle), so moot points ahoy.

"Stacy's Mom" rips off "Just What I Needed" = it gets a stay of execution in my house.

J&P should allow for Jokers like the FT Focus Groups. (Equating "jokers" w/ "voters" will NOT be funny.)

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

It's nice that Xgau likes King Sunny Ade and all but voting for it as his album of the year (and giving top hip-hop album nods to Buck 65*) leaves me all "uh er".

*yeah yeah my top two hip-hop albums were Dizzee and Atmosphere; I'll be over here now

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

nate did you vote? i imagine you are one of the few other ppl who actually voted for rap albums!!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

haha xpost nevermind then

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

michael are they on the site? i remember a thread last year

Absolutely. A link to P&J 2002 may still be on the VV front page. There are others on the site even further back, but I'm off-hand not sure how you can reach them.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

is that fountains of wayne song really better than either one of sean paul's smash hit singles? i've never heard it. but i can't believe that it is.

None of them are very good at all, actually.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"newbies who learned to write from literary theorists"

i feel like that kid in that anti-drug ad who starts freaking out on his dad, yelling 'I LEARNED IT BY WATCHING YOU!!!!!!!'

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know what to make of his singles list, which includes "Get Low" and a song by MC Hawking

(also voted for Bubba Sparxxx and Jay-Z; I know the latter's probably 'too little too late' but what the hell; this is the year I learned that 'mediocre Jay-Z album' = 'relatively slow Ferrari')

xp maura HAHA

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

maura I call you susan b. anthony because you are ON THE MONIZZLE

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i feel like that kid in that anti-drug ad who starts freaking out on his dad, yelling 'I LEARNED IT BY WATCHING YOU!!!!!!!'


HAAAAAAAAA!!! HAAAAAAAAA!!!!! oh, jeez, that is just too good.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

if you count the "Get Low" remix as dancehall then MC Hawking is the closest there is to a rap single on the Xgau list!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

this is actually the first PnJ top-ten album list I can remember that contains nothing I actively dislike, though the vast alt-rock spread in the middle is a little dull, sure.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm actually not surprised that "Get Low" isn't in there -- I think even the indie critics who are now "into" pop radio aren't necessarily all about crunk just yet (cf. Ryan Pitchfork's comment the other day about Lil Jon and Ying Yang Twins being "the worst bullshit imaginable"). They like the horn samples on "Crazy in Love" and the nostalgia of JT's Michael Jackson impression, but crunk still seems too angry-black-guy.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

well ok there's Fannypack. Oops. Disregard.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm still confused as to who gets ballots and why. i received a ballot this year, but i have never ever been paid a nickel for reviewing anything. My weblog has sucked horribly for at the very least the past year too. Several people i know online were passed over, even though they have been writing better work and more frequently. I was pleased to vote, but feel a little embarrassed.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

This should follow Maura's post:

Newbies: "I want a Red Rider BB gun etc etc etc yeah!"
Xgau: "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

the black album is like one of those posthumous pac albums but done for jigga instead

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, I was convinced "Get Low" was great when I heard it in the menu screen of Need For Speed Underground

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, Begs2Differ, I just figured out who you are! But I had to do a search on all your posts first and piece it together!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(conclusion: indie kids do not play video games, except maybe Prince of Persia)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha Nate that's how my kids know about it! they're all like "from the window..."

and jaymc you're a bastard and a nancy drew wanna be and I love ya.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

" i'm still confused as to who gets ballots and why. i received a ballot this year, but i have never ever been paid a nickel for reviewing anything. My weblog has sucked horribly for at the very least the past year too. Several people i know online were passed over, even though they have been writing better work and more frequently. I was pleased to vote, but feel a little embarrassed.
-- badgerminor (badge...), February 10th, 2004 5:14 PM. (link)"

I feel exactly the same way, although I'd do it again next year without hesitation. I wish I would have provided some comments with my choices now, though.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

and jaymc youre
a bastard and a nancy
drew wanna be and i

LOVE YA!!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

fuckers. could I have been any more obvious?

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i never would have figured it out if it weren't for that el gran silencio mention. who i voted for, by the way.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i figured it out when you gave t.i. all your pts on the rap album thread

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

'hmmm... hes not dk, hes not me...'

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the T.I. mention was what sealed the deal (although various mentions to country, Latin, and your kids gave me a pretty good clue)!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I can't even keep my own secrets. and scott, yeah, I knew it was like you and me and ben ratliff and gustavo arellano who were down with the chuntaros!

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

*reflects on all this, then rereads one of $'s posts* Heh heh heh. Nice one. Good to see you're still here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll explain it all on ILE someday. Countdown till this new persona has beef with Rockist Scientist and Orbit...five...four...three...

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

shd i change names again? $$ is so easy to type when im pretending to do work

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and Gustavo's a good sort, one of the better writers around here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

trife = accountant?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

ned, yeah, me and Gus are cool. we should get him on here. have you read his blog? it's so latin-goth! we're like a two-man EGS booster society.

― Begs2Differ, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i transcribe the messages on pimp cups

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.eultrafashion.com/trendsetterz/pc1.jpg

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Ergh, doing a search for own name, I got:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/jobatwork.php

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ned, yeah, me and Gus are cool. we should get him on here. have you read his blog? it's so latin-goth! we're like a two-man EGS booster society.

Haha! Well, he won't know me from Adam -- at least I think -- but he'd be good to have around, no question, so if you want to do the honors. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.celebritywonder.com/mp/2001_How_High/al_shearer_how_high_003.jpg

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

And now there's this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/pjpersonals.php

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I imagine some reformed pimp working in a business-casual office carrying around a golden jewel-encrusted mug reading "BITCH BETTER HAVE MY COFFEE"

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

oh god, mine's second. WHO'S THAT JUMPING OUT THE SKY, R-E-Y

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

michael that chuck eddy letter underneath yours is incredible!!!!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I imagine some reformed pimp working in a business-casual office carrying around a golden jewel-encrusted mug reading "BITCH BETTER HAVE MY COFFEE"
http://www.uic.edu/pharmacy/depts/pmpcpd/herbert_kornfeld.gif

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

ugh plz dont start that shit

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, tad to thread!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

We talk real funny on here
We drink PBR and we Laugh Out Loud
We're too dumb to make it in no Northern town
Keepin' the wiggers down

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

The final story on that page is quite something.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post
..that's how my kids know about it! they're all like "from the window..."

That's great! I nearly died when I heard a couple kids who couldn't have been older than eight walking through the music section at a bookstore singing "Milkshake." The kids know what's up.

― mike h. (mike h.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Congrats, Nate and Scott and Anthony!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

nate your breakdown of the weathermen/7l&esoteric beef seems a bit biased

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

tho i do admit cage's dis over the dead wrong beat kinda gave me a chubby

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

still havent heard anyything from the other side!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

weathermen album HELLZ WINTER in 04!!!!! nate and i will be camping out the night before

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

More comments: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/hottest.php

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Are there some interesting English-language blogs or zines out there by folks into El Gran Silencio and other like-minded stuff (in addition to Ratliff in the NY Times)? I feel overwhelmed when I look at the cds in the Spanish language cd stores, or when I listen to Spanish language radio or check out the various video channels(when I'm doing a free cable company upgrade one month digital multi channel offer!). The Simon Reynolds;Jess; Woebot; Sasha F. Jones; Jeff Chang etc. blogs are great but they don't cover everything and my African/Latin/Caribbean World music magazine of choice The Beat doesn't really cover stuff like El Gran Silencio...

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Gosh, I had missed or forgotten that someone had been arrested in the Mia Zapata rape/murder case. Good call, Jeanne.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

well I did point out the weird contradiction of "7,000 Year To Date" or whatever it was ("when sales control status I place no faith in the oops wait never mind"). I probably should've placed more emphasis on how really thrown-together and half-good/half-awful it was, but I didn't.

Steve: Matt Cibula was all over EGS.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i was having a good day until i came home to this!!!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

fountains of fucking wayne over "get low" is exactly why america is so sexually constipated right now

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Best damn one line review in ages!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve K, I refer you to Gustavo Arellano's site: http://www.gustavoarellano.com
he holds it down in the OC Weekly and he links all his stuff so you can follow him. he's the mostest.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

we're just makin' some calls to strangers

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"CAN I PLAY WITH YO PANTY LIIIIIIIIIIIINE?"
http://www.vitamin-co.net/kheer/images/fow.jpg

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

he holds it down in the OC Weekly

Best reviewer they've got, though I like Chris Ziegler a lot as well, he's a friendly feller I've met a few times, and he's becoming a much better editor than the person beforehand, who I will not name here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

More! http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/top10.php

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, I'm thinking that Aquarius/Gemini line is the only thing I should've bothered to write about Outkast.

But man, Seward is on a roll.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The single that launched a thousand catchphrases

Hm, I must really not talk to people much!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm not making fun, Nate, I seriously can't remember anyone saying any of that in casual conversation or otherwise!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

For the first time since Public Enemy hit, popular taste and that of the modern Afrocentric bohemian are in bizarre sync. It's an opera and there's supposed to be a movie coming. Yay.

GREG TATE
Manhattan

ive always repped for greg tate but... ugh

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

and is sacha jenkins for real abt the white stripes?? wtf man

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

haha those are the only non ilmers i recognized

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Well there's something really catchphrasey about a lot of those lines (which is just a stilted way of my saying they're catchy), but maybe it's just your friends or something.

So who's the 50 Cent equivalent to Emined?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Argh, my comments sound so humorless, which probably serves me right.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The hits they keep on comin'! http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0406/pebbles.php

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

(Tate, also re: Outkast -- "So now the young Black man, having waxed so eloquently about guns, blunts, and be-a-tches, will speak of love.")

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"ROSEMARY PASSANTINO"???

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hey Ya!" is the year's true milkshake. Dre drove from Atlanta to Athens balancing a thermos on his knees, squeezed a few squirts of Elephant Six in there, and jerked it like an egg cream.

CARYN GANZ
Manhattan

haha my rich liberal yankees joke vindicated!!! maybe if andre actually came to athens hed still be a rapper

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, fine, you got me on that one $.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

oh greg tate fell off for me when he started repping that dylan comeback lp (v. 98.0) in the year of, at least, like, can ox.

christ, pazz and jop comments in being 85% solipisitc bullshit shocker. no wonder i didnt bother to submit any.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

There's only one thing to do on a day like this...strut.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

haha miccio is this year's daddino

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

haha jess doesn't bother writing solipsistic bullshit

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

so apparently being a rock critic means having a 100% sure sense of doom that Bush will be re-elected?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck, I thought some of my solipsistic bullshit had made the cut. another life lesson for me.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Might it be that America is fast becoming one vast prison? Two million of us live in actual prisons, and the rest live in a micro-managed, regulated, politically correct place where speech codes and thought police have their way with us.

MICHAEL FREEDBERG
Salem, Massachusetts

hahahahaha

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

btw patrin you do know its 'love me like they love PAC' right?!?!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony, were all of your comments comparing albums to girls/relationships?

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't even know which party has the copyright on "thought police" and "politically correct" anymore

Pac, not pot? What the fuck? Oh man, I'm stupid

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

haha. I was worried about that too, Jaymc, but they put one about the Silent Majority in that Pebbles thing.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

but the ladies do love pot, am I right fellas? eh?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

especially shopping for pot

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

White America seems increasingly adept at ignoring the confused, angry, sullen, 800-pound gorilla it kidnapped and left in its streets. As a consolation, Jay-Z and Ludacris were able to top the charts with albums that referred to whites as crackers. But no one heard those lines, right? Everything's good, right? Gorilla? What gorilla?

KRIS EX
Brooklyn, New York

yeah how dare xgau imply that the ppl voting in pazz n jop are racists!!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

later tonight I might react to everyone else's stuff...once I can stop strutting.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

'trife youre so paranoid, hes just trying to say that black ppl are racist gorillas!! cant you just let it go!!'

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

so apparently being a rock critic means having a 100% sure sense of doom that Bush will be re-elected?

I was about to say, thanks for the fucking PSAs. Jesus Christ.

My own solipsistic bullshit was solely about my favorite musical moment of the year, which was in my favorite film. Give a guess.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

boat trip? ;-)

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay! Have a cigar!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and now that critical consesus is that his album is a classic...I am officially a Dizzee Rascal hater. In fact, I hate the 6 albums in the top 10 I didn't vote for...except maybe Fountains Of Wayne.

Hey my comment sez IF Bush gets re-elected...

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

;-) ;-) ;-)

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I googled "Kris Ex" and found this; I am not entirely sure he is a racist whiteboy

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

man if I don't like the David Banner remix album I'm buying today I'm gonna have a LOT of consensus challenging to do in the next few days...work work work.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony, yr my fave reactionary

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Two maths qns for when the full list goes up -

1) Where would David Banner have placed if his vote hadnt been split?

2) What percentage of Kish Kash points were from ILX posters?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Christ I was all going to be like yay ILX today but then you had to remind me Kish Kash made the top ten on this thing....

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

and Led Zeppelin didn't

har har

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

really, I was initially upset at Outkast beating out Jaxx but I figured just so long as Kish Kash beats out a collection of '70s rock I'll be OK

(don't get me wrong, some of my favorite albums are '70s rock)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate and Anthony: I give it to you. At least it's not a complete washout for me on the comments, though.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

hey I didn't vote for Zep. if I can't find ten albums better than one with "Moby Dick" on it I just ain't trying.

OUTKAST VICTORIOUS MUHFUHHHHHS. HEY YA 4-EVER! HEY YA 4-EVER! Once you guys get over yer anti-populist ass selves y'all gonna muhfuhkin RECOGNIZE. Haha I can't imagine the Purple Rain hate there would have been on ILX 1984.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Village Voice Pazz And Jopp Poll

Somewhat less frenzied.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

heeeeey yaaaaa....heeyyy yaaa....

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck Eddy's the ILXor with the most comments, right? FIGURES.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Do people get paid for those comments? How much?

― JB, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

big ups to Keith Harris for catch the muhfuhkin SUBTEXT of Hey Ya.

HEEEEEEYYYYY YAAAAAA

I think we get ourselves an X-note.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I like "Hey Ya" but one enjoyably catchy goofball Buzzcocks-as-Shuggie-Otis tribute does not a double CD make

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM. Go on Anthony, hum "My Favourite Things".

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The only way to really piss me off now would be if the Exploding Hearts finished out of the top 100 (and here I went cracking wise about "post-mortem sympathy votes")

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought we agreed "Hey Ya" was basically The Fall with whomp-whomp bass.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Also can we reaffirm that Jody Rosen isn't JBR? Or is it? I don't recall her trumpin' up Dizzee much.


Dude I thought that My Favorite Things track was fun!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, Nate, their album was all right but I can only remember two songs off it at most.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The Jody Rosen thing is actually in the ILM FAQ!!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I thoroughly enjoy the GLUT of SB/TLB. It feels less bloated to me than Stankonia though I'll admit I listen to it more as two great albums rather than one great double album. It's better than my disc of #1 Record/Radio City or the one of Los Angeles/Wild Gift. Probably better than my Ramones/Leave Home disc too.

Haha, thanks Tico! I thought the JR thing had been cleared up.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

AND FINALLY: http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

(conclusion: indie kids do not play video games, except maybe Prince of Persia)

Um...Nate...this is just plain wrong. (sorry now I'll disappear again!)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Including two more comments columns I wasn't able to excavate! More Patrin, Seward, Finney, Harris, etc., plus first appearances by Frere-Jones, Cibula, and Herrington!

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/ondacorner.php
http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/faster.php

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha, ouch

Matt, I kid because I love

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

one fuck up i noticed already = double listing of animal collective. "here comes THE indian" (correct) and "here comes AN indian". what's up w that

― a, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Led Zeppelin finished below Mars Volta? OK, I'm back to not being mad at How the West Was Won

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm, so the two-albums-in-the-top-40 that Chuck was trying to get us to guess yesterday? Johnny Cash.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

and i voted for LCD Soundsystem's Yeah, and it apparently was not counted

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

oh hell no

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate: Exploding Hearts: #111

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

LCD Soundsystem ought to have 6 votes at least, not three split. Oh no.

― badgerminor (badgerminor), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, my singles list consists of three tiers:

1) singles EVERYONE voted for
2) singles five people voted for
3) singles I and nobody else voted for

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

hey I'm the only guy who voted for Good Charlotte's "Young And The Hopeless," Kelly Osbourne's "Come Dig Me Out" and Eamon's "Fuck It" but you don't hear ME complainin'.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Huh. Two of my comments disappeared.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

And what was Chuck talking about yesterday with "Jaymc, you're seriously overrating how much crits care about the Decemberists [compared to David Banner]"?

70: Decemberists, Her Majesty
105. Banner, Mississippi
150. Banner, Screwed and Chopped
205. Decemberists, Castaways and Cutouts

Kinda evens out, if you ask me.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I am too amused to really complain, actually

Also: 105?!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Disappearing comments? Why didn't they disappearify my 50 misquote?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I had something about "corporate synergy" (a good 'un) and another on Lester Bangs (blah).

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

That Wotjowicz feller at the bottom of the faster list was the best of the bunch on that collection (most everything else, frankly, wanted to make me set things on fire).

and i voted for LCD Soundsystem's Yeah, and it apparently was not counted

Hey, you weren't alone!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I had them in the earlier P&J webpages. I guess it's karmic retribution for peeking in too early.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha nate i feel your pain- http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/voted_for.php?titleid=202701

also who is james tai? http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/critic.php?criticid=847 hes the only one besides me who voted for 2pac rap phenomenon and seems to be one of the few other ppl who voted for all hiphop (did yall see sacha jenkins' ballot... ugh)

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

the real fun with p&j online is links hopping in the individual ballots. you get to find out weird things like the fact that the three people who voted for wiley's "ice rink" were me, simon r, and someone who's top 10 albums included manitoba, outkast, four tet, and other stuff i really hated.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

1400 ballots sent out, 732 responded? Talk about voter apathy!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I also have four singles and two albums no-one else voted for.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

also, junior boys would have placed much higher if people could have, you know, agreed on what to call the damn single.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ok actually the 'starvations' may not be the youngbloodz style dirty south duo i imagine them to be

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Man! Di and Duane deserve more. But then again I wasn't expecting otherwise. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

jess wtf is the junior boys?!?! single of the year???

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

You voted for Jeck, too, Raggett! The hey?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh my shit! Cat Power at #14 (just 12 points behind Jay-Z at #13)! YESSS!!!

― Josh Timmermann (Josh Timmermann), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Much to my profound surprise, another voter besides me!


You voted for Jeck, too, Raggett! The hey?

You sold me on it, my son -- then I listened to it and agreed it was worthy. I am however annoyed that I didn't place the Marc Almond and Kenna albums in there somewhere.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

haha marcellos ballot makes no sense at all!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah, I was just looking at that myself -- it doesn't make sense only in the sense that I recognized most of the names.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

My sole comment was snatched away! I can strut no longer :(

Sole voter for the Girls Aloud album and paired with one other ILMer on a few of the singles (I am shocked - shocked! - at the lack of love for "Belly Dancer"!)

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

haha is it all improv (and agreed di and duane deserve better)?

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I've got one but it doesn't look like it'll appear in the VV print edition. Wah. I guess this means I'm going to have to try to be a real rock critic this year instead of a wacky internet poseur.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The hell? a lot of the comments linked through the links above seem to have disappeared in the newly formatted versions?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I just did a search and what woulda been my top four records if i'd voted came in at #1772 (The Black Lips), #629 (The Deadly Snakes), #650 (Clone Defects) & #960 (Coachwhips). I don't know why, but I guess I got sucked into the "garage rock" hype of the past couple of years and thought a couple of these might actually rate some attention ... when actually this shit is still completely invisible even to music writers. fair enough, i guess that's where it wants to be. shame nobody will hear these good records though.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

haha is it all improv

No, that's the thing! It's almost NON-improv!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, the thing that intrigues me the most about many of the comments is the emphasis on social listening/social activity. Hey, equal time for bedsitters dammit!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

By my count, of the 72 people who voted for Kish Kash, 16 are ILMers: Marcello C., Geeta D., Tom E., Tim F., Jeanne F., Rob G., Keith H., Jess H., Chris H., Steve K., Michaelangelo M., Nate P., Scott P., Mark P., Ned R., and Yancey S.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay us!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

THE ILXOR VOTING BLOCK: DON'T F*CK WITH US

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

You can add me to "Kish Kash," though I've only posted about half a dozen times here.

Wow, my two comments didn't make the cut. I knew I shouldn't have written about playing street hoops with Doug Martsch.

I'm actually stunned that someone else shamelessly chose The Darkness at No. 1. I also can't believe that not a single other person included Maktub's "Khronos" in their Top 10. Has nobody heard this band?

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently not. So who are they?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello C., Geeta D., Tom E., Tim F., Jeanne F., Rob G., Keith H., Jess H., Chris H., Steve K., Michaelangelo M., Nate P., Scott P., Mark P., Ned R., and Yancey S.

NOT JEANNE TOO! wahhhhhh. I walk alone...

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

though she put Fire (if not Fever To Tell) over it so rah.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

CRY, ANTHONY, CRY!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't believe no one else voted for Young People's War Prayers?! What is wrong with people, seriously, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM AGGGH

ok sorry

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I am surrounded by poxy fulez. (though I'll admit if there were single edits that chopped off the last minute or so of each track "Plug It In" and "Kish Kash" could have made my top ten singles. Hell, if they do that, "Plug It In" might make mine next year)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

But Maura, that's another new name to me!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

re: my lonely choices, I can at least console myself with the fact that METAL MIKE SAUNDERS picked Kelly Osbourne's full-length along with me last year. METAL MIKE SAUNDERS.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

and Eamon's gonna blow up in 04.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course, if I'd had a ballot, I would've voted for the Jaxx, too. :-)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

what is wrong with young people is that there is no more pink and brown...and jef rosenberg sometimes wears a neck scarf when performing.

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"Apparently not. So who are they?"
Maktub is a "heavy soul" band from Seattle. I've listened to that album non-stop all year. The vocalist is sort of like Chris Cornell meets Al Jarreau. Personally, I find the band amazing, but I have a soft spot for '70s-style funk and soul mixed with rock.

Kelly Osbourne? I hate to say this, but I think Courtney's new album blows that thing away in the "chick the rocks" category.l

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

chick THAT rocks. sorry.

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/voted_for.php?titleid=204308 this is a fucking travesty!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/voted_for.php?titleid=204411

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

ned, check your e-mail!

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

actually trife the tragedy is "In Those Jeans."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, do comments appear in the Village Voice print product, too?
(Not that any of mine made the friggin' cut.)

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Most of the comments are. The Personals section doesn't, I think.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i love that dleone ws one of the few other ppl who voted for 'i can' despite the fact that his top ten albums is like one of those made-up bands threads on ilm

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

haha at least SOMEONE else voted for the ginuwine!!

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i hope that anyone who didnt hate outkast already does now after seeing that stupid fucking picture at the top of every page

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

ethan no one liked what i did either, snif snif

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

do i hate fun?

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, what fun. I'm going to lead my column this week with Pazz & Jop. Fly-fishing, moose-hunting citizens of Idaho, welcome to obscure shit that critics in Manhattan love!!!!

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean "obscure shit" in the most complimentary way, of course.

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i hope that anyone who didnt hate outkast already does now after seeing that stupid fucking picture at the top of every page

Yes.

Anthony if it's any consolation if I were a critic and stuff I would have voted for Eamon.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone figured out how to access the comments yet? I'm assuming there's a heavy Web glitch at hand there.

― Chris O., Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the cut of your jib, M. Deeds.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

There seems to be a problem with the page, its not showing up any votes for Alan Braxe.

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

>>I just did a search and what woulda been my top four records if i'd voted came in at #1772 (The Black Lips), #629 (The Deadly Snakes), #650 (Clone Defects) & #960 (Coachwhips). I don't know why, but I guess I got sucked into the "garage rock" hype of the past couple of years and thought a couple of these might actually rate some attention ... when actually this shit is still completely invisible even to music writers. fair enough, i guess that's where it wants to be. shame nobody will hear these good records though. <<

I'm not gonna answer hardly anything on this thread, for reasons of not wanting to drive myself any more nuts about this stuff (the animal collective glitch bugs me though -- i'd noticed that one on the spreadsheet two weeks ago, and been told it was fixed. it WILL be, trust me. any other error anybody notices like that, please email me personally and i'll tell the tech department post haste.) so anyway, i just wanted to tell fritz that i did indeed hear and like all four of the albums he mentions above (or all FIVE, if you count both coachwhips albums that came out this year.) i only voted for one of them (clone defects), but deadly snakes, especially, were definitely in the running. black lips have three or so great songs; the rest of their stuff is good but i don't really remember it much. coachwhips have zero great songs as near as i can tell (unless their alice cooper counts), but i've liked everything they've done anyway.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

RE: LCD Soundsystem. I'd have to go back and check, but I'm guessing the instances mentioned above are where people voted for both the A side and the B side, which sorry, just isn't allowed. The letter specifically says to vote for SONGS. So if you listed the A side first, it counted as an A side vote; if you listed the B side first, vice versa. Unless you voted for fewer than ten singles total, in which case we tried to count your A side and B side as two seperate votes. (Same thing happened with the Outkast single, in a bunch of cases.) The Junior Boys EP was even screwier as far as that goes.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's the 'Yeah' votes, all three of 'em!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Fountains of Wayne are OK and all, but I'm gonna get all histrionic and shit and suggest that, yeah, its placement at #3 represents sheer reactionary terror in the face of hip-hop grabbing the world-historical brass ring.

Or, you know, people may've liked the record.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Your mission, should you choose to accept it: find all ballots that include both Welcome Interstate Managers and at least two non-Outkast, non-indie hip-hop albums and/or singles.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Or, you know, people may've liked the record.

The hell you say!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Easy. Here's one:

SASHA FRERE-JONES

1 Liz Phair Liz Phair Capitol 18
2 Led Zeppelin How the West Was Won Atlantic 13
3 Jay-Z The Black Album Roc-A-Fella 13
4 Deftones Deftones Maverick 8
5 Junior Senior D-D-Don't Stop the Beat Chunky Frog / Atlantic 8
6 50 Cent Get Rich or Die Tryin' G-Unit/Shady/ Aftermath/Interscope 8
7 OutKast Speakerboxxx/The Love Below Arista 8
8 Dizzee Rascal Boy in Da Corner XL 8
9 Jay-Z S. Carter Collection Roc-A-Fella 8
10 Fountains of Wayne Welcome Interstate Managers S-Curve 8

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Also: snort

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to give Sasha credit just for including the Deftones!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

By my count, of the 72 people who voted for Kish Kash, 16 are ILMers

what i want to know is, of the 732 people who cast ballots, how many are ILMers?

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose you can take the time to run down that javascript list...but I'm not.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Another list for Nate (FoW + R. Kelly and Bubba)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"No votes cast for singles" is the saddest sentence in the english language.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

And (FoW + Jay-Z and Missy)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

(wow, look how easily I can avoid actually doing work today)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Crazy ol' Dan Aquilante from the New York Post included Fountains Of Wayne along with Nelly, R Kelly, Jay-Z, and Ja Rule.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

How do you think the album results would change if you discounted every voter who didn't cast a singles ballot?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i voted for "Yeah".

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Just as many ILMers voted for Dizzee as for Basement Jaxx (maybe more, depending on how you count): http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/voted_for.php?titleid=200300

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Also: Since Fountains Of Wayne are a big pop radio group this year, and in most cases share the airwaves on playlists along with mainstream rap and r+b, wouldn't it make sense that they would be on lists along with that stuff since that's the context that it is normally found in? Just by Top 40 default, FoW has more to do with R Kelly than say, The Shins.

Why not try Nate's challenge, but with The Shins instead. The point I believe he was trying to arrive at will probably be better made.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Matthew OTM.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, come on, Fountains of Wayne namechecked P Diddy on their last album. I love how a band that are basically Wheatus's more talented elder brothers can be seen as some bastion of indie. THEY WERE THE FUCKING BAND IN THAT THING YOU DO FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.

And the album is great, yes, if overlong.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

me and two other people voted for Yeah(stupid version)

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/voted_for.php?titleid=203960

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"more talented"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

How do you think the album results would change if you discounted every voter who didn't cast a singles ballot?

Well, for one thing DeRo would be off the list.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

7 of the 8 critics voting for Fabric 13 are ILMers.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Keith's Lil Jon version of Simon Says is the funniest thing evah!

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

OK OK Shins OK fine. I like that Rabin list 'cause FoW are the token rock group (aka the Bizarro Outkast position)

Speaking of which, I have too much free time on my hands and am tallying all the ballots in which Outkast represent the only hip-hop on a voter's list. It is an arduous task, believe me.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

who is Deena Dasein? We were the only two people to vote for Amon Amarth. And me and Don Allred were the only people who voted for Groovski. I was the only person who voted for Katatonia. It's lonely at the top.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

So I guess nobody noticed my little caveat and now everybody thinks I've turned into Ethan, right?

God has had his revenge: I've had "Stacy's Mom" in my head all afternoon.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Deena Dasein is a.k.a. Daina Darzin. she's been reviewing mostly metal for about 20 years, a lot of times for Rolling Stone.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the fact that FoW beat out the New Pornographers, who do the same thing only WAY more fun and well, would depress me if it weren't for the fact that the no. 3 slot almost always goes to someone who doesn't deserve it, lately.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Ohhh! I get it! FoW are like the American Busted?

The songs-not-singles thing is why my Tatu thing comes out as Not Gonna Get Us not Ne Ver Ne Bojsia - oh well! I will know next time a faux-lesbian duo makes their ace Eurovision song an international B-Side.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Three of my singles weren't voted for by anyone else, including my #1 single of 2003. Two of those singles featured Frankie J. Where is the love y'all?

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't one of the notable/cool things about the Outkast record the fact that it crossed over and appealed to a lot of people who would not ordinarily be into a hip hop group? Call me crazy, but I think that's a pretty good thing, since it may be the record which pushes people in different directions and opens their minds up to other hip hop records. I don't see the point in putting down all of those people who were into it. Are they not pure enough? Fuck. Would you prefer it if they didn't listen to any hip hop at all?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll get me raincoat

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(Hopefully that's not directed towards me because I'm in no way anti-OutKast, not by a long-shot.)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Ohhh! I get it! FoW are like the American Busted?

It's even weirder than that, Tom -- they aimed at Respectable Credibility first.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/voted_for.php?titleid=200134 plz let me reiterate- fuck all notherners

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

the fact that FoW beat out the New Pornographers, who do the same thing only WAY more fun and well, would depress me if it weren't for the fact that the no. 3 slot almost always goes to someone who doesn't deserve it, lately.

See, I'm fine with FoW, but I feel a similar way about The Shins beating the New Pornographers. I just have to throw up my hands with that Shins record - I'm cool with power pop, but I just don't see why everyone loves that record so much. It's very undeserving as far as I'm concerned.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll get me raincoat

Room enough for me in there as well? Or an umbrella or...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

My biggest albums regret is not putting Britney on. My biggest singles regret is not putting Busted on. I wonder if anyone else did!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought the 2003 albums by FOW and new pornographers and the shins were all decent but overrated. new porns' first album was way, way better, FOW combined some genuinely great tunes with some genuine filler, and the shins' packaging is better than the shins' album. though damn it's great packaging.

in any event, what shocked me is that THREE power-pop albums actually made the top 10. what's the last time that happened?

also, FOW weren't exactly the band in "that thing you do." FOW's adam schlesinger wrote the song. mike viola of the candy butchers sang it.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Rufus Wainwright was 11th? Boy, I'm sure glad I decided to vote for Dizzee this year.

I actually think this top 10 looks pretty good by recent P&J standards, especially if you compare it to 11-20 (Rufus, Strokes, Cat Power, Lucinda, MMJ -- yawn)

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Matthew, I couldn't possibly agree with you more about the Shins

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

haha Chris, I love that Rufus album

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

but by all means I am thrilled fucking Cat Power and Lucinda and My Morning Jacket and Zevon didn't make top 10.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll echo that sentiment, especially with the latter three.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/search_return.php?poll_year=2003&type=A&keyword=tatu

Hein??

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Also: I like Hail To The Thief a lot, but what would Radiohead have to do in order to NOT place in the top 10/top 5?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, enough. I'm leaving "work" to go vote (Tenn. primary today, not that it matters much at this point) and try to buy a few records from the list that I haven't heard yet. Shopping list: Buck 65, Brother Ali, Bettye Lavette, Wire, Fiery Furnaces.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

yep -- Radiohead is the new Beck

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris, if we'd given Sunny Ade five more votes he'd have beat out Manitoba.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

That Fiery Furnaces record is great, I hope you like it. If I was invited to vote, it would've been #1 on my albums list.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm actually finally listening to the Mars Volta album for the first time and chuckling, because it seems tailor made for an audience that wished Radiohead didn't use that electronic stuff, didn't want to admit to liking Mansun and wished the Darkness were serious. Enjoyable for all that, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the fact that FoW beat out the New Pornographers, who do the same thing only WAY more fun and well, would depress me if it weren't for the fact that the no. 3 slot almost always goes to someone who doesn't deserve it, lately.

New Pornogaphers is definitely more FUN, but I just find it a haul to listen to it all the way through because it's cranked all the way on for the entire album. Kinda like my feelings on that Buck 65 album (which I'm surprised ranked so high with as many people as it did)...just not enough variety throughout for me not to drift off about 70% of the way through.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"No votes cast for singles"

This BOGGLES MY MIND every year. If Glenn McDonald -- someone with little-to-no interest (?) in the most singles-oriented genres/styles -- can fill out that category, why can't everyone else?

― Andy K (Andy K), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm SOOOO tempted to notate the votes of the non-singles voters and post the results.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I rather think you should.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Ideology?

Actually are you allowed to not fill out the albums ballot? And did anyone not do that?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Matos, that is so gonna parallel my Outkast-as-only-rap-vote list

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I don't get that no-singles-voting thing either. Even if you hate all the popular singles, why not just list your favorite album tracks? Weird.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

you arent, i tried

― $, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm SOOOO tempted to notate the votes of the non-singles voters and post the results.

Pleeeaase do.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

grrrr

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

So good they had to list it twice!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

this looks like a singles-only ballot:

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/critic.php?criticid=3137&poll_year=2003&type=A&keyword=

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

this was mentioned already, right?

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

There are actually four non-ALBUM-listing voters this year who ONLY voted for singles. For some reason, that strikes me as pretty cool, I have to admit.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but with 64 points it coulda beat John Mellencamp!

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm kind of sad there are only two essays this year. I like the essays.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

P&J dumbsized

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

was the inability to not vote for albums a web-only thing?

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I think it was. you could've just sent yr ballots to Chuck and had them hand-input.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Aw hell, no votes for "Act A Fool"? I mean that Fast and the Furious sequel supposedly sucked but come ON

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I fucked up by not voting for "Act a Fool". I forgot it.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(it sounds like the end theme from "Three's Company" gone evil)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

>was the inability to not vote for albums a web-only thing?
yeah, I think it was. you could've just sent yr ballots to Chuck and had them hand-input.<

I don't understand this question. It was possible to vote for both albums and singles or only one or the other either on line *or* via email....doesn't that answer anything?

Angels of Light and Ricardo Villalobos votes should be combined soon, by the way. (Not with each other, though!)

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

this isn't the Larry King is it?

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/critic.php?criticid=823&poll_year=2003&type=A&keyword=

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

my favorite voter: http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/critic.php?criticid=2000&poll_year=2003&type=A&keyword=

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

right under Soren Baker! first name Carry Over, last name Ballots

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, FYI: There is an error with the Mayer Fabric set, too:

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/search_return.php?poll_year=2003&type=A&keyword=michael+mayer

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

well, someone upthread said that they attempted to vote for singles only, and not albums, so i was wondering if that was due to a glitch in the web form (didn't voters have to input albums first?). sorry if i was unclear; i'm just thinking about web forms and such a lot lately because of my job.

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

So who do we think wins in the Critical Alignment scoring this year? I finished 10th out of 690 last year -- WTF? Don't think that'll happen this year, since my #1 (Banner S&C) didn't make ther top 200 and my #2 (Bubba) didn't make the top 40. Beyond that, I guess I'm as boring as usual, though how the hell did NO ONE ELSE put in a vote for "Salt Shaker" as single?

― Chris O., Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

First I heard of that problem, Maura. Metal Mike Saunders and Marc Weisblott both voted on line for only singles this year, so it was definitely possible. (Actually, there were FIVE singles only people, this year, I think, not four as I stated above.) (Who did the post upthread? I never saw it.) But I'll definitely take this into account next year....My guess is that singles-only voters will only multiply in the future.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder how many albums and singles people would trade in their 10 of one for 10 more of the other?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

>>my #2 (Bubba) didn't make the top 40.<<

Yes it did.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

So I have a question: Does "Boy in Da Corner" finish high again NEXT year? I mean, it wasn't even released in the U.S. until last month, was it? That's the primary reason I didn't vote for it: I hadn't even HEARD it until it got sent to me a few weeks ago.

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

>>my #1 (Banner S&C) didn't make ther top 200 <<

And yes, that did too.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, guess I gotta read the lists a little closer.

― Chris O., Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

my crazy next door neighbor in Philly, David Snyder, always ends up on the tail-end of that critical alignment thing cuz he always votes for aussie power-pop bands and the like. he's old-school garage rock.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

it was a really brief post.

today i wasted my entire workday clicking from ballot to ballot, song to voter. it's like christmas! with links!

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Even so, I still won't be hovering behind Hilburn and Moon this go around on consensus this time ...

― Chris O., Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Getting away from Hilburn is always a good idea.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

If Boy in Da Corner gets half as many points next year as it got this year, all of its 2003 votes (except those by people who vote for it also in 2004) will carry over. So yep, it could finish even higher the second time around....

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

THE ILXOR VOTING BLOCK: DON'T F*CK WITH US

The ILXor voting block: toe the party line or prepare to be "uncool".

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Getting away from Hilburn is always a good idea.

Yeah, no shit, huh? BTW, they oughtta just make P&J day a national holiday for rock critics and editors ... cuz I don't I;ve accomplished a damn thing today ...

― Chris O., Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Is somebody going to compile an ILXor contributor Top 40? (Maybe somebody already suggested that; I'm not sure...)

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

>>they oughtta just make P&J day a national holiday for rock critics and editors ... cuz I don't I;ve accomplished a damn thing today ..<

Well, shit, Chris, imagine how *I* feel!!

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

also, http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/03/search_return.php?poll_year=2003&type=A&keyword=explosions

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

And what's more, the hard copies of the issue just came in....

400 of the fuckers are waiting down in the Voice basement, for me to mail out to voters outside the New York metropolitan area. (I'll try to do it sometime before summer this year, I promise.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Was Dominique Leone the only Pitchfork contributor involved? I noticed a conspicious lack of Schreiber, LeMay, and DiCrescenzo in the ballots section.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

400 of the fuckers are waiting down in the Voice basement, for me to mail out to voters outside the New York metropolitan area. (I'll try to do it sometime before summer this year, I promise.)

Isn't that what interns are for?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Was Dominique Leone the only Pitchfork contributor involved? I noticed a conspicious lack of Schreiber, LeMay, and DiCrescenzo in the ballots section.

That's a good thing.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess it's a good thing in terms of how the results come out, but Pitchfork is a pretty notable presence in music criticism today, for better or worse.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

As for Pfork contributors, Scott Plaegenhoef and Brandon Stosuy both submitted ballots. Last year at this time I asked Nabisco why more Pfork staff didn't vote (it was one of my first ever posts on ILM!), and here's what he said:

I'm thinking of things like the fact that Pitchfork has quite a few writers (do you ask them all to vote?) with a more consistent aesthetic (would they turn into a voting bloc and do you want that?) that's not entirely in line with the Voice's (most of the critics included cover wider varieties of material than Pitchfork as a whole does). (Also I don't imagine Chuck being very into Pitchfork: a hunch.) These aren't giant issues, I don't think (I think several of the individual writers actually aren't a bloc and probably would cover a wide variety of stuff), but it's not as if I'd expect them to sit down and give this careful chin-scratching consideration: it's not like they use loads of people from equivalent web sites and I seriously doubt they're all that bothered about the issue.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Isn't that what interns are for?<<

Well, after they find addresses for everybody who sent in comments, and SSNs, so we can send everybody their ten measly dollars. AND after they update the data base with the 300 people who moved or changed email addresses or names or genders since since last year. Not to mention all the usual piles-of-mail opening and press release filing stuff. (In the summer it's easier, since a zillion intern applications come in. This time of year, good help is hard to find!)

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Pitchfork is a pretty notable presence in music criticism today, for better or worse.

Yeah, this was sort of why I broached the topic in the first place -- I'd noticed that Enon was #15 on Pitchfork's best-of-2002 but only like #700-something on P&J.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

:-( no comments. I guess I shoulda used whole sentences or something in them.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and then looking back at that P&J02 thread, I'm noticing that Kogan and a couple other people are saying, "If Pitchfork wants in, they should ask Chuck themselves."

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"As for Pfork contributors, Scott Plaegenhoef and Brandon Stosuy both submitted ballots"
as did amanda petrusich

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I would indeed like more Pitchfork writers to vote, by the way. And I've seeked out some a few who seem like pretty good ones; other good ones should contact us. The hacks needn't bother, though that doesn't necessarily mean I'd turn them down if they did. I'd like more non-Pitchfork writers too. But the database is up to 1400 or so as it is, which includes plenty of dead wood -- one of these days, when I find time (fat fucking chance), I need to start pruning the damn thing...

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

$10? Fuck yeah!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, what was the criterion in selecting bloggers who aren't published journalists? It seems rather arbitrary to me.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: Pitchfork - given that Ryan was called out in one of the pre-official comments (re: Fountains of Wayne), he should've rec'd a ballot. Given that criterion, though, Bush should've gotten about 76 ballots.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the shit about rock critics posting on ILM was a joke!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

We went by recommendations from other critics, by people who contacted us personally, by people who write well, and by people whose blogs we stumbled on and they impressed us. So of COURSE it's somewhat arbitray -- how the fuck could it NOT be? People act like this is an exact science, which always completely cracks me up. Actually, I'm pretty positive we had more web critic participation this year than ever before. Which makes sense, obviously. But I also have a feeling (haven't verified this; it's just a hunch) that that's why so many marginal indie-rockish cult bands did so well this year. Which is not a development I'm very happy about, but if it reflects what critics actually like, so be it. The hip hop voters are always hardest to locate, and hardest to get to vote; I'd really love to get more of them. But we say that EVERY year. I wish it was easier to do! I have a music section to edit every week, and Pazz and Jop comes but once a year. It's not my full time job, so maybe it should be...

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

why does Anthony Bozza get 11 albums on his ballot?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, I would've loved to have had a vote, but I told myself I didn't deserve it -- the blog's still fairly new, it's only updated every week or two, etc.!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

This BOGGLES MY MIND every year. If Glenn McDonald -- someone with little-to-no interest (?) in the most singles-oriented genres/styles -- can fill out that category, why can't everyone else?

My excuse is that (a) I had other, more important obligations during the small stretch of time between getting the ballot and the actual deadline to turn it in and I only had time to do an albums list (b) even though there were some things I liked, overall I just didn't think 2003 was a great singles year.

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

If it's any consolation Chuck my hunch is that the longer people keep up a weblog the more likely their taste is to diversify, just through wanting to use different words if nothing else!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

>>why does Anthony Bozza get 11 albums on his ballot? <<

Let's just say Black Keys are about to lose ten points.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"As for Pfork contributors, Scott Plagenhoef and Brandon Stosuy both submitted ballots" as did amanda petrusich

and Andy Beta - whose name is in all lower-case letters for some reason! (NB: And Dom, of course - he was mentioned up thread.)

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's just say Black Keys are about to lose ten points.

Hooray!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Chains and Black Exhaust is another miscount -- two separate listings

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, thanks for correcting my spelling of yr name, Scott.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Hello all. I've been looking for a new forum to post in and this place seems pretty good so I think I'll stick around for a while and see how I like it.

No doubt bashing Pitchfork is good fun, but this year, for the first time, I really think their list was three times better than the top fifty P&J. I don't expect most of my favorites to top either (Ulrich Schnauss would have got #1 if you're wondering), but there were so many albums in the top 50 of P&J I really, really don't like including very high placers like 50 Cent, Fountains of Wayne (Valley Winter Song aside), Yeah Yeah Yeahs, and Ted Leo. Really, the only high placer on Pitchfork's I can't tolerate is The Rapture.
I don't see why more Pitchfork staffers couldn't vote. Sure, I couldn't give a flying fuck what Brent D or Schrieber think, but many of the new writers are excellent. They've managed to change Pfork from an occasional visit when bored to a daily routine for me. But I'm glad at least Scott Plagenhoef got to vote since I've found my tastes match up with his uncannily.

― Nick Perich (drpenguin5), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, I actually have no idea who this "Ryan" fellow is, having only looked at Pitchfork a few times in my life and not really seeing much remotely interesting at all when I did, but if somebody sends me his snailmail and email information, I promise to add him to the database for next year. Seeing how he's so doggone important and all.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey Nick Perich, let's never ever hang out.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree on Pitchfork. There's some pretty awful stuff there.

As for ...
"What was the criterion in selecting bloggers who aren't published journalists?"

How can you call someone a 'critic' if they're not getting paid or published? Why would the Voice want that ballot anyway?

― JB, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's just say Black Keys are about to lose ten points.
Hooray!

You BASTARD!!!!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

JB, I was only asking because there were some bloggers who weren't published critics voting this year.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

(On second thought, from now on maybe we will only include voters whose tastes "match up" with those of Nick Perich.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, not to get all Chris Ott on you (who also didn't vote, I notice), but Pitchfork is the oldest (1995) and the largest-trafficked stand-alone (i.e., no print companion) music zine on the Internet. I share your skepticism about their tastes, I guess, but there's no denying how incredibly influential they are on a whole generation of music fans. If that counts for anything.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course it shouldn't be like that! I was just glad he voted cause I agree with is opinions most of the time.

― Nick Perich (drpenguin5), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

(On second thought, from now on maybe we will only include voters whose tastes "match up" with those of Nick Perich.)

good idea. ;)

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Matthew, I hear ya, but that seems weak. I don't get it. Who wants the opinion of "critics" who aren't actually really critics?

― JB, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

What jaymc said.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

If bloggers review records well (which few do, but there are obviously exceptions), why would I care whether somebody else is publishing them or paying them for it? I don't get that at all...

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't really agree that people who engage in music criticism on blogs aren't music critics because they don't get paid to do it. I'd only agree that they aren't music journalists.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, hello Scott! I didn't realize you were posting here. Nice to meet you. And thanks a bunch for reviewing Camera Obscura! I'm loving it! The music is nothing groundbreaking, but I find it very fun and enjoyable.

― Nick Perich (drpenguin5), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Similarly, is someone only a musician when they get paid for it?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, shit, Chris, imagine how *I* feel!!

Good point, Chuck. I'm not holding a candle at all to the Poobahs in this regard ... ;-)

― Chris O., Tuesday, 10 February 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

"No votes cast for singles"

This BOGGLES MY MIND every year. If Glenn McDonald -- someone with little-to-no interest (?) in the most singles-oriented genres/styles -- can fill out that category, why can't everyone else?

-- Andy K (xndkx...), February 10th, 2004.

Well, isn't there some rule about singles having to be the sort of things that are released as singles, either in single format or in that there's a push to isolate that one song somehow? You're not supposed to just pick your ten favorite songs/pieces. Most of the artists I was most interested in don't release singles, and I don't pay a huge amount of attention to pop radio, even though I usually like it when I do. Why the hate? Aren't those decent reasons to not submit a singles ballot?

― charlie va (charlie va), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Chuck Eddy does I suppose JB. This is my third year voting as an am among the pros, I don't remember asking for a ballot the first time, I was surprised and delighted to get one in fact. I suppose setting up and running ILM is what keeps me on the list, that and the Voice's creaky database. If I did get kicked off the list I would understand that but I'd still feel a bit sad.

Anyway there are lots of people on the list who do *most* of their writing for free online but have had a couple of pieces published, there aren't many entirely unpublished crits. And Pitchforkers at least theoretically get paid.

(many xposts)

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, Pitchfork being read by a number of people counts for something. Which is why I said I'd welcome more of them voting. I have no idea what "whole generation of music fans" they've influenced, though. (I mean, how high DID that Constantines album climb in Billboard?)

And since when is Pazz and Jop a "music journalists" poll??? Where the hell did THAT come from?

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"No votes cast for singles"

This BOGGLES MY MIND every year. If Glenn McDonald -- someone with little-to-no interest (?) in the most singles-oriented genres/styles -- can fill out that category, why can't everyone else?

-- Andy K (xndkx...), February 10th, 2004.

Well, isn't there some rule about singles having to be the sort of things that are released as singles, eit

― charlie va (charlie va), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i have no idea what "whole generation of music fans" they've influenced, though.

I think it's the people who buy Shins albums.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I have no idea what "whole generation of music fans" they've influenced, though.

Like, every single person I know who comes up to me at work or at a show or at a party or e-mails me and sez, "Didja see that Pitchfork review..." I'm not exaggerating -- every single devoted music fan I know personally reads Pitchfork at least from time to time. (Yeah, so I'm 25 and know a lot of indie rockers, but still...)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Like, every single person I know who comes up to me at work or at a show or at a party or e-mails me and sez, "Didja see that Pitchfork review..." I'm not exaggerating -- every single devoted music fan I know personally reads Pitchfork at least from time to time.

I had no idea that Pitchfork spoke to a "whole generation" either, but I guess it's just another narrowcast demographic like The Wire, etc.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

no there is not. it's ten songs, no "released as single" required as of '99

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, I accept that argument. Totally. Absolutely. I guess if these bloggers or web writers are actually being READ by lots of consumers, that makes them viable critics. That said, I think most people (not indie-rockers or ILM posters) inherently put more stock in professional opinions. That's all.

― JB, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

loooong time x-posts but I gotta thank Nicole for the Eamon back-up. And I just listened to David Banner for the first time today (I bought the Screwed version of MTA One) and...damn, this guy would probably have made my list. A fitting purchase for today.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I just put stock in opinions of people I know from experience have similar tastes to me or are particularly convincing. Many of my favorite purchases have been off recommendations from lowly doctors or McDonalds employees...people recieving no money from writing about music. As for "most people" (casual music listeners?), they put more stock into friends, the video, etc. Most people couldn't give two shits what some Spin writer thinks.

― Nick Perich (drpenguin5), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but more people give a shit about what some Spin writer thinks than what your fucking doctor thinks

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't give a fuck what some lowly doctor things about anything!

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Or thinks, for that matter!

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

and trife you can pretend you didn't know who the drive-by truckers were but i know better you know better and anyone who saw patterson's letter blasting you knows better. leave faux-naif to mini-trife dk.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

my dentist in italy was a big little river band fan

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

he looked alot like jason alexander

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

and i've caught enough of a whiff to know i don't need to go anywhere near the p&j this year

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

But the database is up to 1400 or so as it is, which includes plenty of dead wood -- one of these days, when I find time (fat fucking chance), I
need to start pruning the damn thing...

Get rid of the non-voters! I mean, I was marvelling a touch that there were only 732 ballots returned, if I read that right. (By the same token I would have been discounted last year, but what the hell, fair's fair. ;-))

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

rich yankee critics not "getting" crunk ranks beside james dobson not "getting" anal sex on the 'no duh/thank god' meter

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe Mr. Eddy would be willing to get a list of names from the American Medical Association and send out ballots in 2004.

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

like a good chunk of pfork's writers aren't pre-meds!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

What about lowly McDonalds workers? They should get invites too.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

like a good chunk of pfork writers don't work at mcdonalds!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

step off McDonald's, punks

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to have to start posting here more often. You guys are entertaining as hell.

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Welcome to us, sir or madam. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i got nothing but luv for mickey d's employees curtis! mutherfukk burger king ones though

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

all they do is beg and they scrounge

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks, Ned.
If a formal introduction is required or desired, let me know.

― M Deeds, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

There's some 'introduce yourself' threads in the archives, use the search function at the bottom of the page to dig one up and post something if you'd like.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Of all fast food employees, I'd say that KFC and Arby's workers have the worst taste. Thank GOD they didn't get ballots.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

no shit - tom arnold works for arby's

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

you just know tom arnold busts a nut for fountains of wayne!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

that rappin col. sanders problee woulda had some luv for bubba though

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, one of my unused comments was about how the Clipse got photographed with Ronald McDonald for the "I'm Lovin' It" campaign

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

how heavy is that?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

blount who theh fuck is patterson!? the only thing i know abt driveby truckers is that the dude at flagpole who hates you is into them and that stomp n stammer wrote abt a bunch of their reissues once which made me think they were an 80s atlanta band!!!

― $, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I never heard of Pitchfork before I stumbled onto ILM, but I'm not representative of anything.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean if i ws going to pretend not to know abt some athens ppl it wd be one of the fifteen shitty e6 sideprojects i know all kinds of shit abt not some country group!!!

― $, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

trife do you never go downtown or eat at the grit or something? this maybe just part of the georgia theater-40 watt divide, if so my bad

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, i LUV running into matt thompson!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this ILM's Christmas?

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

That's why it's Boxing Day tomorrow.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

And the day after we return all our unwanted gifts to the shops.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Ewing, how are you not a critic? This makes no sense to me at all.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

no paycheck

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that's his choice though, right?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

haha well he's probably making a good deal more than several of us "professionals"

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't say I wasn't one! I could hardly deny that. I just said that if you're using paid'n'published as the gatekeeping criteria (like JB was) I don't qualify. Apparently that isn't the criteria - I do remember getting an email though when I got my 1st ballot saying I should name a publication and the ballots still always get sent to "Tom Ewing, Red Pepper"!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't see why "publication" could not mean "website". People who write blogs publish THEMSELVES. Just like fanzine writers, many of whom also vote!

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

no votes for Love of Diagrams?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I never heard of Pitchfork before I stumbled onto ILM, but I'm not representative of anything.
Um, I hadn't either, so you're representative of me.

― M Deeds, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

A critic is someone who judges the merits of music, literature, et al. by some standard or criterion, which, to me, could be anyone from a blog writer to a pro.

― Christian Rawk (Christian Rawk), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, I've noticed I'm often a thread killer. I went to the bar almost two hours ago, come back and have seemingly stalled the thread of the day.

― Christian Rawk (Christian Rawk), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 06:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'll bump it.

A critic is someone who judges the merits of music, literature, et al. by some standard or criterion, which, to me, could be anyone from a blog writer to a pro.

This applies to anyone who listens to music, but if they opened it to anyone it would end up like some People's Choice award thing.

― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 08:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone ever actually vote for jazz records in this?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 08:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad Sean voted for Aphex Twin though. 26 Mixes is great!

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 08:28 (twenty-two years ago)

sundar- I think Phil voted for that 'jack johnson' boxset but that's the only thing i remember seeing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and marcello voted for lunge's 'strong language', was the only free improv I saw.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

In the cold light of morning, my "sheer reactionary terror" comment is kind of overwrought, caveat or no caveat.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm surprised Chocolate Factory didn't score higher and wonder how much that's got to do with RK's public persona.

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

BOO FUCKING HOO.

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone catch Xgau on NPR this morning decrying P and J?

If you missed, it's archived on the NPR (Morning Edition )website.

― paul c, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

what did he say?

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

'i'm hungry, gimme taco'

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate to sound like Ethan b/c I do love alot of "undie" hip-hop, but this list is just embarassing...where's Banner, Bubba, 50, Ludacris, Freeway, G-Unit, Joe Budden, anything?

note: I really do like several of those albums, esp. Buck 65, Brother Ali, Jean Grae, and Mr. Lif, but still!

2 Buck 65 Talkin' Honky Blues WEA IMPORT 19
7 Lyrics Born Later That Day . . . QUANNUM PROJECTS 5
10 Missy Elliott This Is Not a Test! ELEKTRA 5
16 OutKast Speakerboxxx/The Love Below ARISTA
18 Fannypack So Stylistic TOMMY BOY
27 Brother Ali Shadows on the Sun RHYMESAYERS ENTERTAINMENT
29 Lifesavas Spirit in Stone QUANNUM PROJECTS
33 The Black Eyed Peas Elephunk A&M
40 Timbaland & Magoo Under Construction Part II BLACKGROUND
42 Murs . . . The End of the Beginning DEFINITIVE JUX
44 Akrobatik Balance COUP D'ETAT
45 Panjabi MC Beware SEQUENCE
63 Jean Grae The Bootleg of the Bootleg EP BABYGRANDE
65 Mr. Lif Sleepyheads THOUGHT WIZARD

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

some of those i'm guessing he hasn't heard/made his mind up on maybe (he's working on a big book finally), some of those i know he just isn't that crazy about (eg. 50, i suspect the ludacris)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

He moaned that the poll was lacking in black artists, decried the Coldplay award. Here's the link; look for New music picks from Village Voice:

― paulc, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

sundar, I was thinking about that: was there more representation of jazz when this thing started?

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

D'oh

here the URL to copy and paste.

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=11-Feb-2004&prgId=3

look for New music picks from Village Voice

― paul c, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

What would P&J look like if the people who didn't vote for singles . . . ?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

''some of those i'm guessing he hasn't heard/made his mind up on maybe (he's working on a big book finally)''

sorry but who is?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

der deangle

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

A friend tells me my two comments that went missing yesterday are back on now, at least on the website. (I'll have to check the print edition.)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I know my concern sounds like blatant self-promotion, but I really like having something in the P&J I can show my mom & dad!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

haha mike the only time my mom gives a shit when i sell anything anymore is in the voice (f'in old hippies...)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

"But mom, my take on the new Young Gunz record will have a huge impact in the Greater Wilkes-Barre metropolitan area!"

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

>>if you count the "Get Low" remix as dancehall then MC Hawking is the closest there is to a rap single on the Xgau list! <<

Huh???? Closer than Fannypack, Outkast, Vybz Kartel, Justin Timberlake, or Panjabi MC featuring Jay-Z??? (Maybe you're right, though -- I've never heard anything by MC Hawking. But if you're implying that Xgau's list ignores hip-hop, that's just ridiculous.)

>>this list is just embarassing...where's Banner, Bubba, 50, Ludacris, Freeway, G-Unit, Joe Budden, anything?<<

He, uh, doesn't LIKE them?? Or at least doesn't like them enough? (He gave Ludacris and Budden's albums honorable mentions during the year, which is like a low B+ or high B; he gave two Banner albums duds. 50, he says right there in his essay, he doesn't like much. Freeway and G-Unit, who gives a flying fuck? Anyway, I don't agree with him on all those albums either -- Banner and Bubba both made my top ten, though I actually think he *overrated* Ludacris's worst album, and he likes Lifesavas and Lyrics Born and Jean Grae etc more than I do -- but so what? I'm not him, and he's not me. And he's not you, either, y'know?

(And yeah, some asshole will write "Eddy in defends Xgau Shocka." So I'll say "fuck you" early, since I argue with the guy about stuff we disagree on pretty much every day of the year. More than you can say.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

>>I'm surprised Chocolate Factory didn't score higher and wonder how much that's got to do with RK's public persona. <<

I bet his public persona HELPED him in the poll, since before most critics gave a shit about his persona, he never finished anywhere near this high in Pazz & Jop. (And his last couple albums weren't a lot worse than *Chocolate Factory,* so that argument won't help.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: P&J and jazz.

I have a friend, principally a jazz fan, who excludes his jazz favorites from P&J so as to have a bit more influence on the poll. A fair amount of voters, however, go ahead and pick jazz albums (Ben Ratliff is a name jazz critic who paricipates in the poll), and there's usually a few albums each year that manage to get five to seven votes.

― dylan (dylan), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, and uh, Tchad Blake-produced record with covers of Nirvana and Blondie as highest-ranking jazz album shockah! (Bad Plus at #60)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

So I'll say "fuck you" early, since I argue with the guy about stuff we disagree on pretty much every day of the year. More than you can say.)


So it's ok for CHUCK EDDY to argue/disagree with the great Xgau but not 'lil 'ol me?

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't say you shouldn't argue with Xgau, Josh, and I didn't say fuck you to you. (I said it to the asshole mentioned above.) I just said the point you were making was pointless. Which it was.

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(I made a "Eddy in defends Xgau Shocka" once, but decided it was a stupid joke, so I am a repentant asshole.)

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

>>He gave Ludacris and Budden's albums honorable mentions during the year, which is like a low B+ or high B;<<

Actually, this is wrong -- he gave Ludacris a B+, and gave Budden and Bubba Sparxxx honorable mentions. Either way....well, I was gonna say something about hip-hop experts who voted for Songs: Ohia and who think Ted Leo, Radiohead, and Broken Social Scene made the three best albums of the year calling the kettle embarrassing, but never mind.

― chuck, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, I sort of read that singles list wrong. Oops. Sorry.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I give a frying flee about Fuckway

― Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuckway? Is that like a grocery store that stocks sex toys and edible underpants?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "Fuck" Eddie Clarke played in that band.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 February 2004 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Either way....well, I was gonna say something about hip-hop experts who voted for Songs: Ohia and who think Ted Leo, Radiohead, and Broken Social Scene made the three best albums of the year calling the kettle embarrassing, but never mind.

So now I'm not allowed to have an opinion about hip-hop unless I listen to it exclusively? Thanks for narrowing the parameters yet again Eddy. My argument before wasn't that just Xgau listened to some shitty hip-hop, but that he was grandstanding about the apparent hip-hop/black music ignorance of P&J voters when his own preferences seemed to me to be milquetoast in the extreme.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Thursday, 12 February 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I do have to give you props Chuck for including Hitman Sammy Sam on your singles list, I had completely forgotten about that song and how great it is.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Thursday, 12 February 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...
In Xgau's P&J essay in 1983, he seems to have been much more charitable to "part-timers" who "lard the rolls":

I still believe that if more voters had more access to more music they might feel better about things. No doubt narrow-minded trend-hopping pseudointellectual sloth--epidemic among rock critics, as any empty-headed out-of-it antiintellectual good-for-nothing could tell you--contributes to this problem. But have a heart--so do time and money. Most critics are now semiprofessionals who buy or if they're lucky trade for many of the records they hear, while those who remain on the mailing lists often work in offices where any noise louder than the muffled clickety of word processors is frowned upon. I was struck by the experience of Utility Poobah Steve Anderson, who got to know two of his top 10, Womack & Womack's Love Wars and the Local Boyos' Moments of Madness, only because I slipped him my extra copies. How was he to figure out on his own that he'd take to those and not to the Blasters' Non Fiction or Hilary's Kinetic, which I also gave him? Worse still, how is he to guess which of a confusing, ill-reviewed bin of reggae or hardcore or funk or Brit-hit records to take a flier on? Full appreciation of democracy's pluralistic bounty requires a pluralistic affluence which most rock critics are too marginal to enjoy.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

(http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pj83.php)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)


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