why are so many people convinced that the darkness are "spoofing 80's metal?"

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This question is influenced by the "teen spirit" vs "hey ya" thread, and I considered asking this there, but I don't see what it has to do with that particular argument, and I didn't want to eff up the flow..

It seems to me that The Darkness is a combnation of at least 50 different bands, and almost none of those, if any, are hair metal bands. They don't appeal to "real metalheads" because they don't sound like metal.

There was also an earlier thread where someone wrote "what songs would you suggest for Darkness fans," and nearly everyone posted 80's metal songs - "Talk Dirty To Me," and the like.. I'm really having trouble seeing the connection between The Darkness and those bands.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 07:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The riffs?

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

What about the riffs?

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 08:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Simalar?

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 08:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't hear it in the riffs, not the hair metal aspects at least. I hear some Kiss, but that's more glam than hair metal.

I hear Queen, most obviously. I hear Kiss, Cheap Trick, Rush, some Boston, I hear a lot of The Cure in "Friday Night..." I could keep going..

I don't hear Poison, Motley Crue, Warrant, Winger, Dokken, Jovi, all that good stuff.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

shut up?

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

so what you really mean is "here's a thread where i get to project my own thoughts about the Darkness onto them and then slag them off for it".
if the Draness sound like any 80s metal at all, its more the NWOBHM end of things, with touches of the G'n'R about them too.

as for real metallers not liking the band. been to any Darkness shows?
sure, its not a sea of black leather and greasy mullets like a Saxon show, but there's as many 'real' metallers at Darkness shows as there are at Motorhead shows these days.

― yayanotherdarknessthread, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

So they do appeal to real metalheads? I had no idea.

The 3 dozen or so threads that include a comment along the lines of "Spinal Tap did it better" surely deserves a "shut up?" more than my comment.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

My apologies for not spotting what appears to be the original darkness thread and cluttering shit up.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

billstevejim OTM.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The reason everyone suggested 80s metal on that thread I started was because I ASKED THEM TO! I said "Well OK if the D are rip-offs of 80s metal what 80s metal should I listen to?" - so you can't really blame people for sticking to the phrasing of the question.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

they're not spoofing it, apparently, according a "Darkness insider" i have occasional email contact with. they, of course are, and i quite like that silly double-bluff, too. but it's seventies glam that they're really mining. interesting in that they do it one way, kompakt does it in another...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

they remind me more of late 70s american rock, mixed with a little queen and a little mid 80s Van Halen. the appeal to real metalheads because they are trendy, so they are bringing new blood to the scene. Much of this new blood being posessed of breasts makes the bands more farsical ellements pallitable.

― lukey (Lukey G), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The 3 dozen or so threads that include a comment along the lines of "Spinal Tap did it better" surely deserves a "shut up?" more than my comment.

That would be the same 3 dozen thread that exist nowhere outside your head, I presume.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

They're defintely "spoofing" something. Its completely retro. Everything about their sound is borrowed from somewhere else.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

And I mean a band like Nirvana borrowed from The Beatles, Melvins, Pixies but they made it sound like Nirvana.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, and The Darkness, borow from Queen, Slade, Pulp and glam but they make it sound like the Darkness.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Looks like they had a decent thing going until that last part.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Nirvana -- Beatles -- wtf?

― ENRQ (Enrique), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Would you agree that they're funny? And that it's the result of spoofing something or other?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not really spoof though, it isn't LOLWTFOMG behaviour -- usually (the xmas song prolly crossed that line).

― ENRQ (Enrique), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i) occasionally. They're funny less often than they are thrilling or touching or gleeful. ; ii) no.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

It's sometimes the result of them copying something that was funny in the first place, but that's not 'spoofing' any more than a circus clown now is 'spoofing' Pagliacci.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they've accentuated the campy / self-aware aspect more than most of their inspirations though: yes yes I *know* Queen were called Queen but still Mr. Mercury didn't mug to the camera in the way that wotsisname does, or as often. But I agree that spoof's not really the right word.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe goof? Queen seemed like a a bunch of guys who really wanted to be the champions. Darkness seem like guys who are happy to have the spotlight for their 15-minutes, but probably know it won't be long.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes they're much more self-conscious about it. That's cos they're indie though - I said yesterday they are the Metal Orange Juice.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

dleone - if so that's more a function of the times the bands formed in, being huge world-gobbling stadium champions was a viable deal for a new band in the early 70s in a way it isn't now: short-term MTV darlings is the career model for *everyone* in pop pretty much.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

No argument there.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, TS: Kid Rock vs Darkness VS ZZ Top vs Queen.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only heard a couple songs, but yeah, it seems to me they are SO much more self-conscious about the trappings of rock & roll (whether it's 70s or 80s glam) than the bands they are emulating. Sign of the times and all, sure, but it still seems like something some of my friends would start as a novelty band that got taken really far.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Queen

(x post)

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"The 3 dozen or so threads that include a comment along the lines of "Spinal Tap did it better" surely deserves a "shut up?" more than my comment."

"That would be the same 3 dozen thread that exist nowhere outside your head, I presume."

I said "along the lines of.." Usually at least one person claims that the concept is just being re-hashed. I, on the other hand, think it's a unique combination of elements, and I've never heard anything quite like them before, even though virtually every one of their songs sounds like a combination of 4 or 5 bands.

And also, I thought a couple of the songs were outrageous, but I wasn't convinced right away that they were intentionally trying to be funny. The video made that obvious, which I still laught at every time I see it. Spinal Tap were performed by actors, which makes their stance more obvious. A huge part of the appeal of The Darkness (and AWK, Turbonegro, and a few others) is that I was never able to figure out right away whether they were kidding or not, which is far more funnier than making it blatant.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

why are so many people convinced that the darkness are "spoofing 80's metal?"

For the same reasons I'm convinced that fish prefer water to tomato paste and that Barcelona is in Spain.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

It's quite obvious.

Just listen.

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

You couldn't figure out if Turbonegro were kidding or not?!

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, but who is that?

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

What's the difference between:
(a) the Darkness LP if you've become convinced that they're kidding / spoofing, and
(b) the Darkness LP if you've become convinced that they're deadly serious?

People really seem to care about whether thay're "4REAL" or not, which seems endearing to me.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"more funnier" - um, typo..

They're not 100% sincere, obviously, but their sound is taken from GLAM, not hair metal. That's all I'm trying to say.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

but their sound is taken from GLAM, not hair metal.

Well, gosh, where do you think HAIR METAL takes its sound from, supagenius?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I said yesterday they are the Metal Orange Juice.

Right, that's you off my christmas card list, Ewing.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I think of Glam as David Bowie.

The Darkness doesn't sound like David Bowie.

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, I'll rephrase that: Their sound is taken from Glam and several other genres, but hair metal is not even in the top 3 most representated genres on that record. Glam, power-pop, new wave, then hair metal.

"I think of Glam as David Bowie." - The Sweet, The New York Dolls, Mott The Hoople, they're all in The Darkness. Not so much Bowie.

The first time I ever really experience Turbonegro was in concert - I was so amazed I didn't have much time to think "are they kidding or not?"

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, I take that back: switch hair metal with new wave, so its the #3 most represented genre, in my estimation.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you've got the order of the genres backwards in the first list.

Glam is last

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"Well, gosh, where do you think HAIR METAL takes its sound from, supagenius?"

No kidding, but there's a distinction between glam and hair metal. That's why they've been given different labels, sugagenius.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, it's obviously not a clear cut distinction if it SOUNDS like glam metal to so many people. That's exactly what I thought when I first heard the single, and still do.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

But then there is meatal in it?

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The reception the Darkness get still really interests me. A band like the Thrills come along who have certain influences and play music in a certain style and while they get criticised for that there's not these discussions about 'spoofing' and 'insincerity' - nobody could possibly doubt that the Thrills are oh-so-sincere.

I think more interesting than whether the Darkness are insincere or original or even good is the question of what is it about 80s Metal that makes the idea of someone playing it so repellent or suspicious (to Darkness nonfans) or enticing (to Darkness fans)? What unresolved baggage does it still have to make its use in modern pop so problematic?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the vocals send mixed signals for the Darkness. The few songs I've heard by them reminded me more of Cheap Trick than the New York Dolls, but the vocals are totally camp. Hence, I would only classify them as "glam" if I wanted to say the primary thing with glam is that it's camp. And that's one of the things, but maybe not the primary one for me. (x-post)

Also, I'm disappointed by TS didn't garner a response from you Tico.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

pink spandex

― kephm, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I was too dim to puzzle the TS out dleone - it's like when Dave Q does really complicated ones and I basically haven't heard enough ZZ Top (or whoever) to say anything.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

ah - dang, I'm not sure I can think of a better analogy, but I'll try.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It's very sweet and grade five-ish to have arguments about how "real" people are when said people are on TV clad in spandex stripey catsuits battling space octopi. You may as well be arguing about whether The Darkness could beat up The Fantastic Four. (answer: maybe!) Whether they're glam or hair-metal or pop or whatever is beside the point too, they have mutant powers we cannot begin to understand.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

My god Fritz, you don't really think the Darkness could beat up the F4.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

yes yes I *know* Queen were called Queen but still Mr. Mercury didn't mug to the camera in the way that wotsisname does, or as often

oooh, get thee back to thy copies of Queen's Greatest Flix vols 1 & 2!

― stevie (stevie), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Freddie Mercury said he felt like he needed the arrogance on stage. He said he wasn't like that in person.

― Aja (aja), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe! They made short work of the space octopi and they do have a space ship. Plus they play Rock Instruments, unlike the F4.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom - 80s metal is funny! It was funny and over the top then, even moreso now (and easier to laugh with because it's not omnipresent chart music). There are things about it that are patently ridiculous musically (like the operatic screams and gimmicky guitar shredding for obv. examples), which of course can make it great for various reasons.

(x-post)

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i definitely get more of a bad 70's rock vibe from the darkness than an 80's metal vibe. it's true. bad 70's pub-metal.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't especially care what genre they were in, except that it just bugs me that so many people don't see my point. If it were up to me, everything would be called "rock." Genre labelling is among my least favorite aspects of being a music fan.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes Fritz, but the Thing IS ROCK.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Fritz it seemed to me they had quite a struggle against the space octopi.

Jordan yeah that was sort of my point upthread - they are doing a funny thing which was also done by people earlier who were also funny - that doesn't mean they're 'spoofing' i.e. taking the piss out of those people.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

My head hurts.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

THEN WHY ARE YOU SPLITTING HAIRS ABOUT WHETHER IT'S 70'S OR 80'S GLAM WHICH ARE COMPLETELY DISTINCT GENRES OF MUSIC?!

(um, x-post)

(you make a good point, Tom)

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

they are doing a funny thing which was also done by people earlier who were also funny - that doesn't mean they're 'spoofing' i.e. taking the piss out of those people = urgent and key and I wish everyone would get this through their heads about everything ever

they had quite a struggle against the space octopi. No more than The Fantastic Four would have. Or The Smiths.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.iwantaband.com/Image/bandphotos/band_fantasticfour.jpg

Note the sweet tribal tat on Ben Grimm.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

they are spoofing though. they are a joke band. the reason people are confused about them is cuz they aren't funny. if they were funnier everyone would get the joke.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.bedrockcity.com/ff65.jpg

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Daft Punk to thread?

Also that was a space squid. That makes all the difference.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"HAHAHAHA! Feel THIS voib!"

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Weren't they supposed to make a Fantastic Four movie?

I honestly don't see why this makes so much sense to everyone. I mean, a few of those bands fit with the darkness, but I don't see how Warrant or Dokken is the most obvious connection, beyond the outrageousness they all share.

This is exhausting.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Caution: Erection lasting more than four hours, while rare, must immediately be attended to by a physician.

― George Smith, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Question: do you not like 80s metal, billstevejim?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"...you all are wrong it is cough syrup with codiene, milk of magnesia, rum or vodka, phenolphthalein, and a jolly rancher. it is served in a bottle. straight from da 3 6."

― George Smith, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

*sigh* I've defended myself enough, I shouldn't have to answer to that.

I like it a lot of 80s metal alright. What I don't think is great, I usually think is really funny.

Here's an idea that might help, but will probably just piss people off more: Kurt Cobain detested the hair metal, but I think he would have liked The Darkness, because he was a fan of glam and power-pop.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

they did make a fantastic four movie! it was great!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

the shocking thing here is that i've previously underestimated the power of the "fell in love with a girl" video to conclusively prove my thesis that jack and meg white are made out of legos.

― andrew s (andrew s), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Kurt Cobain would have liked Alfred E. Neuman and the Furshluginner Five because they wrote one of the best novelty pop songs of all time, "Potrzebie."

"Potrzebie," but not "It's a Gas," alas.

― George Smith, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

At least a few people seemed to understand my point, which is comforting. And on that note, I retire from this thread forever.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"I have to go now. My planet needs me." - Poochie the rockin' dog

― not billstevejim, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

The Darkness are ironic heavy metal t-shirt fashionista kitsch taken to its extreme....and y'all know how I feel about that.

Band T-shirt Etiquette

Hi-Fashion Ironic Vintage Metal/Punk Kitsch

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"they are doing a funny thing which was also done by people earlier who were also funny - that doesn't mean they're 'spoofing' i.e. taking the piss out of those people = urgent and key and I wish everyone would get this through their heads about everything ever"

hmmmm - but i think there is an inculcated mentality of self-aware laughing at old-laughter involved - we have a 20-odd year (at least that i'm aware of) strand of referential humour going on in TV as well as the spate of ooh-isn't-that-bathetically-hilarious-crap-as-seen-from-our-present-smart'n'sophisticated-view what-WERE-we(they)-thinking school of 'I ~~smugly look back upon~~ Love The XX's' programs...an implied notion of 'progress' and 'distance' is involved when there is a time-gap - it's almost as if to still find 'old' things funny without a degree of simultaneous mockery is a sign of aesthetic (and => attitudinal/political) unenlightenment

in an activity which is so entangled with time-phases and framing in its forms + business + psychology + modes of perception it seems an unavoidable aspect of evaluation, and not something it makes sense to discount

(i'm not suggesting this IS necessarily the case - but i think there is a reason for the reaction)

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

definitely. though i don't think this neccessarily conflicts with the first point.

people always have conflicted feelings about the past - mostly in the form of "oh were so dumb then/oh we were so innocent then" - that's the most natural thing in the world.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

The Darkness are more like Queen, Lizzy etc, more late 70's hard rock than the likes of Gods such as Jovi, Poison or Skid Row. But fans of the Darkness should listen to Poison, coz they are great innit.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

they are spoofing though. they are a joke band. the reason people are confused about them is cuz they aren't funny. if they were
funnier everyone would get the joke.

OTM! I agree with this.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe the reason people are confused about them is that they are confusing & interesting.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

No, that would be ILX instead.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

It'd be great if their next album was total thrash metal, and they started referring to themselves as the 'Ness, and shouting stuff about their black hearts and global warming.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

it'd be great if their next album wasn't total trash.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i am officially a darkness troll. heck, 4 posts bacck i even agreed with myself. there's gotta be a law against that.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll agree with you, fear not.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

You are both obviously afraid of The Darkness because They Believe In A Thing Called Love and You Hate A Thing Called Fun!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Revive that meme and I WILL kill you.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ah

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

oops

ha ha

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally, I think the Darkness are okay, a few good songs, but not that great. I mean to me, they don't sound new or different, I've listened to this sort of music all my life. Also, there is the "authenticity" thing that I constantly battle with, I know it shouldn't matter but it does, there's always the feeling that "hey, these guys are taking the piss"...

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

...out of you, jel, or out of themselves? Are they doing it in a way that Poison weren't?

I can't tell, I hate this sort of music.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought about this more on the train home last night, got very confused, and came to the conclusion that it's almost impossible to conclude anything... excuse the splurdge but maybe someone can clarify further

starting from the Tico/Fritz observation,I wondered:

if 80’s metal in general was ‘funny’ back then – was it also being funny in a knowing/purposeful manner, were the bands indulging in intentionally cartoonish exaggerations of guitar virtuosity, pantheistic hedonism, playing at romantic denim'n'leather-clad ringlet-haired babe-lovin’ cavalier-cowboys who didn’t know where they were goin’ but sure knew where they’d been ?

or were they funny in the sense of being worthy target of the mockery reserved for the *unintentionally* hilarious? Funny because they were pompous and overblown pouty balloons who needed a different kind of prick?

aren’t ppl who attribute ‘spoofing’ to The Darkness simply crediting them with the same kind of awareness that they see themselves as having ?
If you don’t think The Darkness are spoofing, but think they are funny, aren't you laughing at them and not with them – as you were at the 80’s hair-metal you think they might ‘un-ironically’ be like ?

(The answer, if you’re that way liberally/analytically inclined, could be to refuse the exclusive-or function:

- 'funny' can play along so many different and sometimes simultaneously mixed dimensions of naivety / self-awareness / affection / disdain / melodrama / cynicism / ridiculousness / catharsis / wish-fulfillment / mockery / defensiveness / control / ...

- attributing zer0 self-awareness to bands could be snarky attitood based on musician-resentment and fame'n'money-envy from punters or journos who are absolutely (and in many cases maybe justifiably) convinced they are so much cleverer than the ppl whose activities they buzz around and feed from and effectively support and it's JUST NOT FAIR – these ppl don't even understand what they're doing!
but these ppl are working in an industry using self-acknowledged showbiz circus image/entertainment/hooha as well as aesthetic-cultural metaphors and 'personality' and 'artist' archetypes to play the 'authentic' personal-resonance angle: to think that they couldn’t have at least the same complex and confused relationship to their job or the same mix of self-mispereception/self-awareness/childish-excitement/adult-cynicism/etc as anyone else!)

or
How could we find out?
what do we count as evidence ?

there's the output: music and videos and pictures...the problem being that as these threads show this 'evidence' is open to 'interpretation'*
there's the interviews...but what have they said ? and should they necessarily be believed ? you don't even need to think they're a shower of lying bastards carefully protecting their popularity/income, you can just say:
- sometimes ppl don't know what they're doing
- sometimes ppl don't explain what they're doing accurately
- sometimes ppl are doing several things at the same time, some of them contradictory

* i am glad that jel showed up here - he's like an 'expert witness' & i do think that the interpretation of punters like him carries more weight (if he is still ambivalent about their schtick, not able to decode their attitudes, i think that shows a 'verdict' may never be reached...)

i think liking a style of music because it is 'fun' is different to liking it because it is 'funny'

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, it's official with that darkness-vs-nme thread, I am not the darkness troll, ILM is the darkness troll cuz ILM is trying to make me say mean things about the darkness every day this week. well, i'm putting a stop to it. i refuse to say anything negative about the darkness today! Howzabout that Gwar! weren't they great? saw them in 89 at Revival in Philly on a small stage and they played their asses off. the pyro was a little scary though. saw them later at the Troc and then later still at Toad's Place in new Haven and they never failed to impress.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Are Gwar still going?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

probably.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

in fact, i'm almost certain of it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Love'em or hate'em, surely the Darkness don't warrant this much discussion, do they? I mean, they're a two-bit joke band with lucky streak beating an already-well-covered gag into the ground? Please.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

in philly, i got to know and be friendly with the guy who made all their props and costumes and who played the subhuman geek on stage for years. he was a cool guy. he designs and makes prosthetic limbs now.he also wrestles in gwar garb locally(around philly) with the dudes from rancid vat. he brought in some of the old gwar gear to where i worked one day and it was cool to see up close.

alex: OTM

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

don't like 'em much myself alex - but the discussion can be more interesting than the trigger for it ?
i think they personify/exemplify some difficult issues around music/humour/'authenticity'/ etc

(haha too difficult for me to understand anyway)

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the single sounded kind of like Foreigner or Bryan Adams or something.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim, I mean taking the piss out of rock. It's like when you first get into rock when you are young, the group "you are one us now" element is a major appeal. It's inclusive outsider music. It's explained quite well in Fargo Rock City. I'd like to know what Kloisterman thinks of the Darkness.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

they remind me of van halen 'why can't this be love'
(but are v.h. one of the supposed genre-reference points ?)

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.spin.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=260

oh, Klosterman likes them.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that a shock?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno *shrug*

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I kind of like the one song I've heard by them (and I'm not a fan of 80's hair metail, as far as I know--though I can't say I have consciously sought it out). (I know this is not a C or D thread, but I wanted to say my piece.)

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Howzabout that Gwar! weren't they great? saw them in 89 at Revival in Philly on a small stage and they played their asses off.

I never got into Gwar. I was into more serious bands like *ahem* Psychic TV (who also played a great show at Revival at around the same time).

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

who are you fooling, rockist. You know you were just there for Executive Slacks.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

For whatever it's worth (not gonna read through this whole thread), I don't hear much '80s hair metal in the Darkness, either. Not much Queen (even in the guy's voice) or AC/DC (even in "Black Shuck" or whatever the song about the dog is called) or Styx or Journey (both mentioned by I think Anthony Miccio, though maybe I'm wrong) either. The guitars on the album (which I like but don't love) always make me think of Boston, Night Ranger, Aldo Nova, and the Scorpions for some reason--pre-hair metal EARLY '80s pop metal, in other words. George Smith says UFO too, which sounds right though I can never remember what UFO sound like when I'm not listening to them. And I think he said the album-opening song ripped off Kix, which I love the idea of since Kix are one of my favorite bands ever but I'm not sure which Kix song he thinks they were ripping off. Anyway. They're a catchy, songful hard rock band with a sense of humor. A good one. (So what's not to like?? They are much more fun than Slipknot no matter what the great Scott Seward thinks.) But hardly the FIRST one, since catchy songful hard rock bands have *often* had good senses of humor, often way more clever than the Darkness's sense of humor. (If you don't believe me, you really need to go buy the first Kix album.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(Also they are much much better and funnier than Gwar, too. And much more musical than Spinal Tap, for that matter. But not more musical or funnier than the Dictators.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i still think it is, as tico/fritz implied above, the particular genre they are referencing which makes the serious/pastiche thing so problematic to sort out: the fact that many think it was so jester-festooned in the first place
- how can you do a parody of something already on the edge of ridiculousness to start with ?

madness weren't seen as taking the piss out of ska although they were quite vaudevillian and ealing-comedy in nature - why not ?

why wasn't 'electroclash' (or whatever the hell it was) regarded as taking the piss out of early 80's synth-pop/newromantic ?

but: if a goth-band stuffed with classic 80's goth-rock sounds & refs appeared and sounded just like it and they looked the part - i bet more ppl would have the same problem as with the darkness: 'haha that look/genre was so ridiculous in the first place they just CANNOT be serious"

i think it's to do with the attitude/credibility/'cool' factor accorded to the original genre - and mousse metal is regarded as carnivalesque by nature

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

well jeez, chuck, it's not like i want everything to sound like slipknot. slipknot have their place. and slipknot are actually more than enough slipknot for one planet. i disagree about Gwar though. they were a hoot live. but maybe, like beavis and butthead, i just like cavewomen who play with fire. and Gwar were funnier than kiss by a long shot. i dunno, i keep meaning to dig out that darkness album just to see if i still don't like it. i'll have to do that today. it just seemed uninspired song-wise. and not funny. and i'm all for funny! i wish more bands had a sense of humor. or all bands even.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

You will like it! it took me a couple of listens too!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I guess my Darkness over Gwar thing has to do with prefering pretty, rocking songs to gratuitously ugly and shocking-yeah-right performance art. Plus when I saw Gwar their performance art never made me LAUGH; it just seemed, you know, audacious or something. It was entertaining, in a way. But there was no music to go with it!

― chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I never thought Kiss were funny either, for what it's worth. Well maybe the song about the Capricorn and the Cancer was. ("C'Mon and Love Me"? I forget.) But I kinda doubt that was on purpose (not that "on purpose" matters one way or the other of course.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't find the darkness cd yet. in the meantime, i put on some Kix. (maybe you didn't see gwar when they had the 25 foot dinosaur on stage. that made me laugh. and their metal never sounded that bad to me. some of the songs on their first album or maybe second album were pretty good.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

but really gwar doesn't equal darkness. they really aren't the same thing. i can't remember why i brought gwar up. oh, cuz they were jokey and funny. but musically, the two bands are quite different.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i just prefer current german power metal bands that sound like they are from 1981 better. it's a preference thing. the 70's pub-metal that the darkness do just doesn't hit me the right way. but i will listen again.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

If there's anybody the Darkness sound like, it's Geordie NWOBHM band(though most of them were Geordies), Raven. Having said that I haven't heard any Raven since 1982 so my memory may be playing tricks.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Were Gwar's SONGS funny, Scott? Or just their clothes and limbs being chopped off and squirting fake blood and stuff? I actually remember nothing at all about their music except that I didn't like it...

― chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Weren't Raven the band who always dressed up like hockey players? If so, that was cool! But I forget what they sounded like, too...

(Also, I think one member of Raven might be the Lone Rager, who put out a 12 inch single called "Metal Rap" on Megaforce in 1984. But maybe I'm wrong about that, too. I just this second suddenly miss my copy for the first time in at least a decade and a half...)

― chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't read this whole thing, but spoofing implies that the spoofer looks down upon the spoofee; while I think the Darkness is self-aware about its material, there's no looking-down going on. As said upthread, I do hear a little nwobhm/gnr but no poison/crue/etc.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i gave you a great Raven album, chuck. The Pack Is Back! okay, it's not that great, but it's pretty good.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the two gwar songs i know, "penguin attack" and "sammy", are both really funny, but in very different ways. are there any ballads on the darkness album?

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The Darkness might even sound a little like Brian Johnson's old band Geordie. They made the same sorta pub-metal.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

all of gwar's stuff was pretty humorous. i mean lyrically. they had a whole dungeons and dragons convoluted mythology mixed with pottie humor and blood.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Gwar even did some silly power ballads that are pretty funny.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"sammy" is one of those, it might have been one of my favorite tracks of that year just for the audacity.

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Search: "Goodbye Love" and "Don't Do That" by Geordie (The Darkness should cover those tunes)

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't remember much about Gwar's music at all, except for "The Road Behind," another power ballad with a great video in which Oderus and the guitarist, Beefcake, dress up like Axl and Slash by throwing, respectively, a red wig and bandanna and top hat and curly black wig over their monster gear. Totally fucking hilarious - it's like a monster costume party, because they're pretending that the monster stuff is their real selves, and the Axl/Slash stuff is costumery!

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i would like the darkness if they covered thet great glam anthem "Fancy Pants" by Kenny. Or even "Yesterday's Hero" by the Bay City Rollers. As it is, i don't even think they are as good as Rollers-wannabes Rosetta Stone.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the sheer fact that they covered Radiohead completely illuminates the wink-and-a-nod of it all, and sort of ruins it.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

But it's a wacky indie cover of a summery pop hit. Er, wait.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

they covered radiohead? ewww.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The Darkness slam 'boring' Radiohead

The Darkness have slammed Radiohead - their main rivals at this year's Brit Awards - by calling them boring. Guitarist Dan Hawkins told Netzeitung that Radiohead couldn't hold up to the stage antics of his brother Justin. He said: "Most of these modern bands are so unbearably serious they leave me cold. Radiohead are totally boring.

"The world needs a showman like Justin who puts on his monkey outfit and entertains people. I haven't bought anything by these modern bands in a while. They're all wet rags."

Hawkins added: "Bands like Radiohead are great for our business, of course, because there's been a total Radiohead-isation of the British music scene. Coldplay, Turin Brakes, Starsailor - all of these groups have put together their selection from the Radiohead menu."

Hawkins says he learned to play the Darkness's special brand of retro-rock by practising to the old masters: "I always played along and practised to my favourite bands. Again and again and again. For years. Always. I didn't have a girlfriend for a long time, you know."

Dan Hawkins also revealed that his parents took out a mortgage on the family house to help finance their first album, but the condition was "no sex".

He added: "We're good boys, really. That's the big difference between us and the bands from the seventies. The condition for getting a loan from our parents was: "No drugs, no orgies, no casual sex." Well, once we've paid off our debts we'll have some catching up to do."

According to Hawkins, he and his brother's band is just what the music world needs right now: "The world needs people like us. And we're ready."

And he dismissed early criticism from NME magazine, saying: "NME criticised us when we weren't successful. Now we're the biggest band in England and these s***s are making fools of themselves by trying to kiss our behinds."

Ananova, Story filed: 13:22 Wednesday 18th February 2004

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't have a girlfriend for a long time, you know.

Well then.

We're good boys, really. That's the big difference between us and the bands from the seventies.

Yes of course.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

They weren't trying to be funny.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

wait a second here, Kiss weren't trying to be funny?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't I read all those same quotes from Kid Rock, last year? At least the Darkness are stealing from the recent past now.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think i will ever understand why the darkness inspire so much hatred. they are beautiful. no matter what they steal from and whether they are serious or not.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they're a lot of fun...even though I've caught a lot of grief for admitting to liking them.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"Growing On Me" sounds exactly like the Cars.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

who needs em when poison never stopped touring???

― kephm, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

They're more like Queen or a 70s bricklayer glam band than Poison.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i was kidding.
wait a second? QUEEN. now you are joking?

― kephm, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Boy, I wish they were like Queen. Only Laibach came close.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

because music geeks can only like something as lowbrow as 80s-esque metal if they call it a "spoof."

― I hate music geeks, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that's kind of true actually. it's like johnny ramone said, "we always wanted to play for the kids, but we had to play for the artists first." people doing good rock n roll always have to deal with people dismissing them as a joke/over-analyzing them (two sides of the same coin really) because a lot of people have trouble dealing with the idea that rock - like all art - is sometimes at its best when it's funny/grotesque/ridiculous/fucked up.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Real metalheads burn churches.

― Adm Mhel (adam michel), Thursday, 19 February 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Styx or Journey (both mentioned by I think Anthony Miccio, though maybe I'm wrong)

you may be and ARE wrong. I compared them to Heart mainly.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 19 February 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

real churches burn metalheads.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 19 February 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I just searched through some threads and this is the stuff I've compared them to (stuff they ACTUALLY kind of sound like, not stuff I negatively compared them to):

"Jessie's Girl" (one of the riffs)
Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Scorpions (at least I said the singer is from the same school)
ok I did say "Journey Meets Heart" once
Redd Kross (basically "Zira (Call Out My Name) off of Third Eye is what these guys are - or at least should be - going for)

And actually, these guys sounds kind of great when played on mainstream rawk radio these days. though ANY pop-metal would.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 19 February 2004 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"oh, Klosterman likes them"

omg, you just HAD to bring Klosterman into this and force me out of retirement...

He's actually one of the few journalists I've read who shares my opinion. He flat-out stated something along the lines of: "Despite popular belief, the Darkness are a lot more influenced by glam than by hair metal."

― billstevejim, Thursday, 19 February 2004 06:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard the single a couple times. It's not bad but I think Linkin Park and Sum 41 still do more for me.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 19 February 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

If the darkness sounded 1/10 as good as Redd Kross' "phaseshifter" album, I'd worship the fuckers!!

scott rock's attempt to push this thread into an appreciation of GWAR should have worked better, I think. I keep meaning to pick up another copy of "Scumdogs of the Universe", coz as a ministry/revco-related album, it kicks thee ass ov "Chicks and Speed: Futurism" haha. I saw GWAR live twice, and they were fucking great. Like everyone else, I went to see Oderous Urungus get beaten senseless by Sylmenstra Hymen and her giant tampon with the chain on the end etc, but we were all amazed by how hard they rox0r3d, especially the second time. I can still remember this point during the second gig of theirs that I saw where the music took on that accelerating without actually going any faster feel that for me is the epitome of good rocking music. This combined w/thee onstage visuals - there was this constant stream of mentalist happenings onstage - and the fact that when you looked at the performer's faces thru the costumes, they all had this intense 1000yd stare, like they were REALLY INTO THIS, made it one of the most exciting times I've ever had at a rock gig. Plus, it was an honour to die for GWAR.

I can't really think of one single band that the darkness sound like, the vocals make them stand out a bit I suppose, but it's awfully 80's generic nwobhm for me, and not as good as Demon for all that. It's kind of hard to imagine the darkness recording anything as awesome as THE PLAGUE.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 19 February 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

If the darkness sounded 1/10 as good as Redd Kross' "phaseshifter" album, I'd worship the fuckers!!

Pashmina is a wonderful man. I think I need to listen to some Redd Kross today, actually!

the Darkness are a lot more influenced by glam than by hair metal

I know what he's getting at but I remember how the words were used back in the late eighties and it means this still reads like '50 Cent is a lot more influenced by rap than by hip-hop.'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay Redd Kross! Now there's a band!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Redd Kross seem like a more apt point of comaprison than Gwar to me. A spandex-clad, hair-flailing, pop metal brother-led band that the hipsters were allowed to like (or argue about anyway). "neurotica" definitely used a similar visual & musical vocabulary as "permission to land" (not that they sound much alike) but they were doing it in the 80's, and I think they got the same accusations of a) being Retro & b)not taking themselves or Rock or whatever seriously enough... but I don't want to overstate the similarities. I can totally see how you guys could love Redd Kross and hate The Darkness, as they don't really sound all that much alike to me even if they were drawing on a lot of similar ideas.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference: though they had a sense of humor, Redd Kross were not EXCLUSIVELY a joke/parody/send-up band.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

...like the Darkness are.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

if every band w/ a guy with a weird voice singing funny stuff dressed in rock n roll clothes can be dismissed then throw out Little Richard Lou Reed Johnny Cash Slick Rick Axl Rose Johnny Rotten Tenpole Tudor & Wanda Jackson while you're at it.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Wanda Jackson's a guy? *hides*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

oh you know what I meant

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Slick Rick wore rock n roll clothes? *hide behind ned. realizes he is too fat to hide behind ned. hides behind tree*

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

a bejeweled eyepatch? hells yeah

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

TS Slick Rick vs. Momus. Scott, should I hide behind you or the tree in turn?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Slick Rick and Bushwick Bill in a handicap match vs. Momus (Elle Driver special guest referee)

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you're onto something, my friend.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i got a song for Momus to cover:

Hey Ray, hey Sugar, tell them who we are. ]

Well, were big rock singers, we got golden fingers
And were loved everywhere we go [ that sounds like us ]
We sing about beauty and we sing about truth
At ten thousand dollars a show [ right ]
We take all kind of pills, that give us all kind of thrills
But the thrill we've never known, is the thrill that'll getcha
When you get your picture on the cover of the Rollin' Stone

CHORUS:
Rollin' Stone,
Wanna see my picture on the cover
Wanna buy five copies for my mother [ Yeah! ]
Wanna see my smilin' face, on the cover the cover of the Rollin Stone

[ That's a very very good idea ]

I got a freaky old lady name a Cocaine Katy
Who embroideries on my jeans
I got my poor ol' grey haired daddy, drivin' my limousine

Now it's all designed to blow our minds but our minds won't really be blown
like the blow that'll getcha when you get your picture on the cover of the Rollin' Stone

CHORUS

[ Hey, I know how...ROCK AND ROLL! ]

SOLO

[ Awww, dats beautiful ]

We got a lot of teenage blue eyed groopies who'll do anything we say
We got a genuine Indyan guru, who's teachin' us a better way
We got all the friends, that money can buy, so we'll never have to be alone
and we keep gettin' richer but we can't get our picture on the cover of the Rollin' Stone

Rollin' Stone, wanna see my picture on the cover
Wanna buy five copies for my mother [ I Want one! ]
Wanna see my smilin' face, on the cover the cover of the Rollin Stone
On the cover of the Rollin' Stone
Wanna see my picture on the cover [ I don't know why we ain't on the cover, baby ]
Gonna buy five copies for my mother [ were beautiful fellows ]
Wanna see my smiling face, [ I ain't kidding ya ]
on the cover the cover of the Rollin Stone [ Ah, we would make a beautiful cover ]
[ the first shot, right up front man, I can see it now...we would be on the front smilin' man, ahhhhh beautiful ]

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

because of 'the archness' - as prevalent a mode of musical expression/appreciation now as 'the hysterical' or 'the authentic' were 15 <-> 30 yrs ago ?

(and it doesn't help when genres being referenced totter around so much on the dbl-edge meaning of 'hysterical' in the first place)

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "spoof" is the wrong word. They're certainly a novelty band, but that doesn't mean they're a "spoof" necessarily. More like a tasteless homage.

― Stupid (Stupid), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

if the darkness covered this i would love them:

My momma talkin' to me tryin' to tell me how to live
But I don't listen to her 'cause my head is like a sieve
My daddy, he disowned me 'cause I wear my sister's clothes
He caught me in the bathroom with a pair of pantyhose

My basketball coach, he done kicked me off the team
For wearin' high-heel sneakers and actin' like a queen

------ lead guitar ------

The world's comin' to an end, I don't even care
As long as I can have a limo and my orange hair
And it don't bother me if people think I'm "funny"
'Cause I'm a big rock star and I'm makin' lots of money
money, money, money, money, money, money
Ahhh! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

I'm so bloody rich! Ha ha ha ha
I own apartment buildings and shopping centers! Ha ha ha ha
And I only know three chords! Ha ha ha ha

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i think soundgarden covered that, scott! (and it didn't rock nearly as hard as the cheech y chong/alice bowie version, if i remember right.)

― chuck, Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I can agree with this to an extent. HOnestly, I think The darkness have more in common with like, Jackson Browne 80's styled pop rock than they do Motley Crue. Even the first two songs, which are the msot rocking , seem to have more of a Kiss-school of pop/hard rock feel to them than they do hair metal.

and...THEY SOUND NOTHING LIKE QUEEN. Unless idiots think that Queen was a glam rock band their entire career and think the 80's was the only decade they existed in.

― Rob DelMedico, Thursday, 19 February 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes. Earache My Eye rules.

― Rob DelMedico, Thursday, 19 February 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Dammit, enough with the Queen BS. Queen and Darkness share nothing in common other than their vocalist likes to do falsettos, but the DArkness guy has a horrible falsetto.

Queen were an eclectic mix in a giant stewpot of a million different things, from classical to ragtime. They were pretentious and over the top (in a good way), and for the most part of their first decade made their music very showy.

the Darkness? Not only do they not share any similarities in approach, sonically they don't sound the same either. They're just a standard 80's sounding pop/rock group who could have done Eddie Money/Jackson Browne covers. There's nothing really pretentious or showy about them either....

I hear very little 70's in The Darkness after the first two tracks. Most of the riffs they play aren't really aggressive but more just catchy simplistic riffs that back up the vocals.

― Rob D, Thursday, 19 February 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

So, am I the only one that thinks they sound like Benatar/Scandal/new wave-era Heart & Linda Ronstadt? Somebody else must!

I think they're OK, especially the non-hit songs. And I like his falsetto, but I find his regular voice pretty dreary.

― Arthur (Arthur), Friday, 20 February 2004 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

867-5309 is the magic number.

― dave q, Friday, 20 February 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Jenny Jenny.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 February 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I think his falsetto sucks cuz he doesn't breathe well enough to support it full out. When he does the high waily whines, he's ok, but his attempts at a more operatic intonation a la Freddie Mercury (and no, I'm not someone who throws the word 'operatic' around liberally like so many twits who think vibrato=opera) fall flat.

but yea, I think they sound like 80's pop, not hair metal, not cock rock.

and after buying Queen II yesterday, I laugh even more at the comparisons drawn between geniuses such as Queen and mere 80's pop copycatists who are fun but not essential like The Darkness.

― Rob D, Friday, 20 February 2004 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

After watching the Brit awards tonight, I have revised my opinion. I <3 the Darkness 4 eva.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 23 February 2004 05:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Aw.

Meanwhile, a band for us all.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 February 2004 06:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Or could it be that The Darkness are spoofing _on_ 80's metal?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 23 February 2004 06:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I bought the album. I quite like it. I don't think it really sounds like 80s hair metal, 80s new wave, or 80s mainstream pop/rock. Does no one remember or care how clean, synthy (or at least glossy and produced), and tightly (if unimaginatively or simplistically) played just about all mainstream guitar rock was in the 80s? As far as 80s music goes, the music is probably closer to 80s indie rock than to any mainstream 80s rock. I haven't heard that much Redd Kross but from what I do remember that's probably an apt comparison. Just the sound of the guitars may be somewhat comparable to a sloppier, boozier version of Husker Du's more pop moments. The voice reminds me most I think of "Ballroom Blitz" by Sweet in the heavy English accent, the outrageous campiness, the comically exaggerated tones, and the swoops into screeching falsetto. "Stuck In a Rut" sounds a little like "All Right Now" by Free. Both of those are great songs. This album is similarly great. I could hear a little Boston in the twinned guitar melodies but minus all their singing, playing, and production chops or their pomp and earnestness and plus a lot more humour. I think that all of these qualities are combined with a strong sense of fun, camp, and energy to make a sound that's actually really distinctive and current.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The Sweet is a good comparison, but leaving the vocals aside, I was reminded strongly of AC/DC and Slade.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 05:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't heard that much Redd Kross but from what I do remember that's probably an apt comparison.

Try Neurotica, Third Eye or Phase Shifter as suggested above by various folks if you're interested. My acidic judgment of the Darkness's worth having been noted, you are welcome to them.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know Slade but, more than any particular 70s band, I think they sound like people who grew up on classic rock radio and decided to form a rock band but do it goofier, sloppier, a little louder, and more dissonant. Which is why I could sort of imagine it being a little like some old indie rock. I mean, they can remind me of elements of AC/DC, Sweet, Free, Boston, Zeppelin, Rush, and Husker Du, but usually of a few of those within the same song.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 06:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe even Bowie. I can see Pulp in "Friday Night".

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

bowie too, i always think "love is only a feeling" is gonna turn into ziggy! i do find the darkness' slower songs reminiscent of warrant's power ballads, but yeah, i'd agree they're more 70s glam and classic rock than 80s metal.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Does no one remember or care how clean, synthy (or at least glossy and produced), and tightly (if unimaginatively or simplistically) played just about all mainstream guitar rock was in the 80s?"

Not all of it was. Besides, when you're emulating something, you don't have to nail it 100%.

I don't hear most of the 70's glam others do, except for say, the first two tracks. Other than that, they're pretty much straight up pop.

― Rob D, Friday, 5 March 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, by my count their are 22!!! Darkness threads on ILM so I had to pick one to post an update on and so i picked this one. I tried again to listen to the album yesterday and this time I made it to either track 7 or 8 before I had to turn it off. The first time I listened I think I made it to track 5 or 6. So, that's an improvement I guess. The first couple songs are fine and then it really becomes so tedious and annoying I just can't keep listening. One song with those vocals might be endearingly kooky if it were a memorable novelty a la Electric Six, but a whole album of it with no truly great hooks just makes for a slog that grows increasingly less funny with every tune. For their next album they should lock themselves in a room with some Angel, Babys, Starz, Silverhead, Marseille, and Def Leppard records until they get their shit together (Or they should just cover Trooper's "Raise A Little Hell", have DFA produce it, and watch the money come pouring in). If there is a next album.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

nine months pass...

You have been Googlewhacked!!!

― Ben, Jay and Emma, Saturday, 8 January 2005 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Really? What phrase?

― Masked Gazza, Saturday, 8 January 2005 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

I REALLY hated the darkness on this thread.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you changed your mind? (Still think they're ridiculously overrated but other acts deserve more seething contempt than the non-entities. ;-))

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I kinda forgot about them. Do you think they will even come back so that i can hate them all over again? Or are they done? I never listened to that album again. It was like a cruel joke.

this thread was funny:

Which Superhero Team Could The Darkness Beat Up?

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I kinda forgot about them.

Same here! My fave local bar had a fad of playing the album a few months back and you know, it was just dull in the end. I think I forgot everything about it every time it ended (or maybe that was just the drink).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i can barely remember what the hit sounded like.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

if it even was a hit. in the u.s. anyway. they used to show the video a lot.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

There was a slower verse and then they sped up for the chorus and it was all "ayayayaYIIIIIIIILOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" and then it ended. Something like that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, that falsetto. ugh. worse falsetto ever.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

you know, maria got that xiu xiu album and she didn't like it at all and she wondered why people like it so much. so i listened to it, and it didn't really do much for me, and i don't know what to make of that support the troops song (faux-punk irony? is he serious?), but I could see why people like it. the darkness, i just couldn't see it. the songs seemed really lousy to me. and that's really what it boils down to. i dug that young heart attack album. i don't think anyone bought that thing. they did the retro ac/dc 70's hard rock thing, and i thought the songs were really catchy. and they had the added novelty of a boy/girl vocal tag-team. but, yeah, the song is the thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

scott, did you ever hear supagroup, from new orleans? they were/are better ac/dc ripper offers than young heart attack, i think .

― chuck, Thursday, 3 February 2005 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I still listen to this album like constantly.

― My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Friday, 4 February 2005 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

Same here - and late last year I discovered their b-sides, which completely rekindled my interest. ("I Love You 5 Times" contained my favorite guitar solo of last year.) The b-sides were more outrageous than the album tracks, which has now convinced me of their tongue-in-cheekness. So now I get it, but aside from the videos, I never really thought the joke was that funny (genuine 80's metal is 1000 times funnier); however, I still love their songwriting to death, and I'm anticipating world domination after album #2.

They'll be back. I hope.

― billstevejim, Thursday, 24 February 2005 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

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