Do threads in which Momus posts get so long because we all consciously or unconsciously want to engage with him because he's a minor indy celeb?

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See Kill Bill thread etc.

― Two-Faced January, Tuesday, 14 October 2003 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

No, it's because fundamentally he's C*l*m with a back catalogue and a Japanese fanbase.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, being near him makes me feel as if I've been sprinkled with pixiedust.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Blimey Kate, that's a bit harsh!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

People have repeatedly made the Geir comparison, and I think it's apt; and at the same time the subjects are generally a little more complicated, so there's a wider variety of dumb things to say. He's stubborn and he'll keep arguing and he'll generally quote someone irritating, so it's easy for threads to balloon.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it? I mean, obviously not with the rudeness and the crudeness, but in the sense of asserting deliberately provocative statements with the sole aim of "challenging our liberalism" and trying to out us all as censorship happy conservatives etc. etc....

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the minor indie celeb thing factors in there to some degree at least with me because at some point in my life I want to be responsible for influencing the decisions of "important" people and at this point I think Momus is one of the more "important" people I know who isn't related to me (side note to Momus: Have you visited http://www.poemcees.com yet?).

(I am fully cognizant that, depending on how ready people are for an argument, my use of the word "important" could open a can of worms, particularly since I've put scare-quotes around it; can we take that argument as read and move on?)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

And in doing so revealing himself as essentially reactionary and unpleasant.
X with dan.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

momus rulz fukc all u hataz

(you can just cut and paste this and keep moving it to the bottom of he thread if you like)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus said somwthing nice about me on the KB thread, so this'll be biased, but... who is he? What kind of minor indie sleb? Is he as famous as Taylor Parkes (still my life model)?

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(Haha have I hit a new low?)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Do people start more threads about Momus than anyone else on ILE because they all consciously or unconsciously want to engage with him because he's a minor indy celeb?

(btw - 'we all' is a bit daft - I for one rarely post to them, because I can't really cope with threads that are 500 pages long when I first look at them. Also I know very little about Vice magazine).

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm likely not to post to a Momus thread because of his 'celebrity'. As far as I know there's one copy of his last album in Exeter and it's been on sale for £4 in Solo for months now. I have one old 12" signle of his at home which I liberated from the bin-bound ex-uni-radio collection about 6 months ago, and have never listened to.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

can we take that argument as read and move on?

Dan, if we could do that this thread wouldn't have come up!

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Shh Tep you're ruining it!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, yes, K, but he's not a frothing lunatic, and has often contributed reasonable and intelligent posts to the boards. Admittedly these are somewhat dwarfed by his identity-politics-for-artists schtick, dodgy sexual politics, Ameriphobia and slighty unpleasant exoticization of anything non-European, but still...

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

s/European/Western/ in my last post.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, aren't we all minor indie celebs? I'm in a band, I've done some music writing, I have Rushmore glasses and a Lightning Bolt album. Worship me, mortals.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm more of a minor indie schlub

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a minor classical celeb!

(No I'm not *sob*)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

He's a 'minor indy celeb' in that I'd vaguely heard of him before lurking on this board. And Nick, you *not* posting to a Momus thread is basically the same response in negative form. Momus is argumentative, but no more or less than a number of posters here; nor are his views wildly more interesting or original. And yet even his most banal comments seem to stir up a storm of response. Obviously there's some mutual backscratching going on here - some posters like the fact that they post to a forum peopled by types like Momus; and Momus soaks up the attention lavished on him, whether positive or negative (no publicity is bad publicity, bla bla bla)

― Two-Faced January, Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't anyone take this as a defense of C*l*m, but he's contributed some reasonable and intelligent posts, too; he's usually made his more typical posts in the very same threads, but even so, I don't think Momus's non-frothiness has to weigh against Kate's comparison.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Kate is dead-on; furthermore, I think Kate's point extends to the vast majority of posters on this board (well okay, me).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't generally post to Momus heavy threads because he is generally pretty stupid.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Semiserious answer: His "celeb" status may be a factor when you add it to Momus' posting style, which is somewhat, eh, how do you say, pretentious, overliterate, preening, etc. The overall effect is the desire to take him down a peg. Thus the argumentation.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

It's cos he's more or less coherent in his views that you can actually argue with him. Compare with the ILX Politics thread where everyone's like, oh, I have some right wing, some left wing views...

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

And Nick, you *not* posting to a Momus thread is basically the same response in negative form.

Not really - I didn't click on the Kill Bill thread this morning because a) I'm not very interested in Tarantino and b) it had 550 new answers. I had no idea that Momus was involved in it till you said so above.

There's only a few people whose names make me skim their posts. Momus isn't one of them.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the other way around.

Momus wants people to ~~engage with~~ notice him because the Momus vs. Everyone Else divide keeps his minor indie celeb status afloat.

― mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

It's cos he's more or less coherent in his views that you can actually argue with him.

I think you need to read more Momus threads, Enrique. They generally don't go very long without someone complaining that Momus has started arguing about something entirely unrelated, or is now implying the opposite of what he's said previously.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

It's cos he's more or less ~~coherent~~ extremist in his views that you can actually argue with him.

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

You can argue with him because unlike most people who are actually reasonable and will make concessions to the logical arguments of others, allowing some kind of coherent conversation to take place, Momus will continue blindly repeating his ridiculous "points" over and over again no matter what anyone says, until he decides it's time to completely flip-flop and argue a totally opposite point.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Mr Pytlik so on the money he's got an imprint of the queen's head on his arse. Momus values trangression and being outside the conventional norms of society over everything else. We provide a nice cosy society for him to feel outside of/superior to.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, maybe, but 'extremist' is a cant word anyway, oh god this sounds Momus-y, but its use generally implies 'I support the way things are, don't rock the boat'.

Other cant words include 'reasonable', 'logical', etc, they just imply that x-argument has no place in a discourse whose limits, mysteriously, remain undefined.

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

(Um guys? You realize that this thread is like primo fodder for yet another round of "I AM AN OPPRESSED ARTISTE SURROUNDED BY JACKBOOTED CONSERVATIVES WHO FEAR MY DANDY WAYS", right? Can we do the smart thing for once and let it go?)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

(Covers ears, closes eyes, hums loudly to self)

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I see and talk to real celebrities every day; it doesn't actually occur to me that Momus is a "celebrity" to be totally honest.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Who? Who?
Me neiver; I have no idea who Momus is, but he's a v entertaining poster.

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus is to celebrity as Stuart Hall is to football.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

reading the above, i'm starting to feel sorry for him, that's fer sure.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir Factor

― Nicolars (Nicole), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

nb comparison w/calzy baby is unfair b/c i don't recall him (ie momus) ever creeping out on female posters.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

When momus is bored, momus trolls. Simple as that. Its amusing to watch how effectively he winds you all up.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like to invite him to suburbia for a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake. We could take my kids to the park and talk about cars, mortgages and the football.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Stuart Hall?

The erstwhile New Left Review editor who pioneered the study of Gramsci in this country, author of books about 70s youth culture, Fatcherism, cultural materialism? A most apt comparison.

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

ed, you are winding me up!!!

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

RJG is a dick!

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

cup o' tea and a slice o' life!! that's nice!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

No.

I enjoy his contributions simply cos they're often thought provoking and he's just an interesting guy.

I'd never heard of him before (or since) and his insistence on minor indie-celeb-hood seems to me like a sit-com character pleading "But look, I'm ME. Don't you recognise ME?"

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

In retrospect, this thread was fantastic, wasn't it?:

White Men Who Exclusively Date Asian Women

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 35 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Ally, the handle is a reference to a Patricia Highsmith novel.

― Two-Faced January (Two-Faced January), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Deletion or locking is up to Momus really, if I remember my ILX bylaws.

TFJ - we have at least one other indie celeb posting who is probably as famous currently as Momus. While a few of the threads he posts on have got excitable (Adbusters related ones for instance), John D does not tend to get the response Momus does. This makes me think it's to do with the posts not the poster.

A sufficiently interesting troll ceases to be a troll, even if that's what they think they're being.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

In fairness Ed it's difficult to believe Momus doesn't mean what he says because Momus on ILX is the only Momus most posters can know.

I find it hard to believe it's all one big roleplay. I shouldn't even post on this thread though.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Out of interest, who is John D?

― Two-Faced January (Two-Faced January), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I should add, if he wants to remain anonymous, don't tell me who he is!

― Two-Faced January (Two-Faced January), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That'll be one of those 'takes one to know one' things?

Not really, no; I'm a grad student, but not the kind I was describing.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely not?

― Out of Menswear, you know (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

You are all missing the point.

The reason Momus threads get so long is because he's Scottish and a bit shy about getting around to discussing what he really wants to talk about, which are the celebrities he hangs with and the parties he goes to and what he has been wearing, which I absolutely love and want him to talk about more! But for some reason, he has this British ashamedness about liking clothes and celebrity and fun, and assumes he will unleash the great backlash of DIE FASHION FASCIST! when in fact I wish Momus would post to the fashion threads more; he dresses great and Erik is very lonely with no men to talk fashion with. Momus links to a lot of interesting sites and referents and I personally have learned about a lot of interesting things from his improvisational "free logic" collage-style of arguing but one should not expect him to be Euclid; it will just make one unhappy. I think Momus should be more trusting with us about telling us about the things he sees and does and see how he is accepted for who he is and then maybe he wouldn't feel the need to call us Republicans etc.

So answer to thread question: yes

(xpost -- I suppose Two Faced January is Highsmith's pun on Janus)

― felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I never said that momus didn't believe what he typed. People do read a lot between the lines here don't they.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't call me a misogynist, Ed!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

unless your browser window is really narrow, dan, I don't see how that last post could have ended up on two lines.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Well Ed, you did say he was effective at "winding you all up". I think that does suggest a certain amount of posturing on his part without any reading between the lines. He's winding us up or he's just Momus being Momus, there isn't really a grey area.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

John D = John Denver. You thought he died in that plane crash, but shhhhhh....!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Ed, that was kind of what I was objecting to. You said "Momus gets bored and trolls and then you all get wound up" which implies A) Momus is not being honest about what he thinks, ever, on these threads B) We don't realize he's at least partially winding everyone up. Either way is fine but I think my description of what is actually going on when Momus "trolls" is far more accurate than what I'm getting out of your original post.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

And "one should not expect him to be Euclid" is the funniest goddamned thing I read all day so far!!

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I will test his geometry skills next time I see him.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Good! Report back, we will have a 7,054 post discussion of it.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Reading this thread has made me feel embarrassed and tense, like I've just walked into an office kitchen slag-off of another employee.

― Anna (Anna), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

tickle me elmo: classic

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Anna = OTM.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

(RJG = OffTM)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

At any moment Momus cd jump out with a 7-paragraph barnstormer, taking on all the republican hataz... it's dangerous

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Tickle Me Elmo is kind of frightening. I once had this doll that was a monkey and when you squeezed it, its ears would spin and it'd make monkey noises. So this one night, I was about 16, I rolled over onto it by accident in my sleep and it just broke and wouldn't stop spinning and screaming. In my slightly drunken fog, I convinced myself that this was actually a bomb. So I picked it up, placed it at the foot of my bed, and curled up at the top of my bed and started crying. Eventually my mom hears this and comes in my room. After she's done laughing for about 10 minutes solid, she opened up the monkey and took out his battery. Sometimes she still puts his battery back in to make him spin and scream for ages whenever I visit. Bitch.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The moral being that Tickle Me Elmo and Chicken Dance Elmo and Teabagging ELmo all kind of remind me of that monkey. Cocksucking humanoid toys.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

momus is only like the fifth most famous person on ilx, ranking behind fucking rock critics for fuck's sake so let's not get too carried away.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope the irony of this Momus-free thread reaching 100 posts (97 more than the greatest thread ever is not lost on anyone.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

OH, like you didn't contribute to this thread at ALL, Dan...

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

If you could point me towards the place where I said that I didn't contribute to this thread, Kate, I'd be much obliged. The meanest things I did on this thread were to shamelessly promote my brother to someone I was arguing with yesterday and to compare all of ILX to C*l*m. (I was actually being serious when I said that the thread I linked turned out to be fantastic.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ARGH Kids do not edit your posts because they end up not making sense.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway I just wanted to say that I like Momus and I also do the same bored/wind up schtick but he's better than me at it. When I do it, I start to hate myself. I give him mad props for being able to uphold this for so long. And he's lovely in real life, so I don't want him to think anything I said about him on this thread was meant as a necessarily negative thing.

― Ally-zay, Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I can think of minor indie celebrities I'd rather be engaged to. But, I guess I don't really get involved with Mo's flow.

― autobot lover -- (jel), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Momus too. Sorta glad I'm on vacation this week, tho.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to be a fan of Momus's music, but unfortunately ILX has put me off for good.

― logged out, Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I think what I was trying to say is that if I disapproved so heavily with what you said, Kate, I wouldn't have agreed with it and said it applied to me, too.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I had no clue who Momus was before ILX, and I still really don't know (much), nor have I knowingly seen or heard anything by him, so...no.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Truth be told, I didn't know either. All I know is he has a record label and my brother makes excellent hip-hop.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I appreciate Momus in that he unites the majority of ILX against him.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I still like Momus' posts since I skip the Vice threads.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I bought a momus record once when I was 16. It sounds like the Pet Shop Boys.

Like, whatever.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 03:59 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is k-lame

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Totally.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Y'know, I've never once read or even actually seen a copy of Vice magazine. I've heard 3 Momus songs. I've heard like 3600 hours of nickalivious songs in the past couple 2 weeks, and only remember making like 1200 hours of that bunch of shit, amd an amazind at rmembring that. I'm like rigoddamndiculously soooo watsted rite now 2, btw. Like borubon & beer & then red bull & vodka & beer & bloody marys & beer & ber & more beer, wow. Like pitchers nad not bottles huuuboy. But y'know what's really awesome? Kill Bill. Like, fucking Ay dawg.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll have what youre having mister 'licious.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus in neil tennat sound-alike shocka.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 07:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I want momus in george tenet soundalike shockah.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously, "Two-Faced January" is Momus.

You can hear Momus's pants sliding down around his knees, and the jar of vaseline opening, as he sits down to read this thread...

― Skottie, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

ew *scrubs brain*

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 05:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i sometimes find what momus has to say moderately interesting and have read and listened to his work, so know he is not a complete, irretrievable loon. but he has annoyed the nuts off me lately simply by not *listening* to people or reading what they have to say before going of on demented rants that really aren't necessary (i reiterate: i get vice. i understand it. i still HATE it. bottom line, i am as clever as anyone who runs it/writes for it and i certainly do not need a bunch of dumbassed fashion knobheads to challenge my pretty well considered political beliefs and social mores. go ahead by all means, but you'd better be good, otherwise it aint going to stretch me much). having said that, i have to add that he is in fact a major "ilx celeb" and i see as many people sycophantically encouraging him as much as i see trying to get him to shut up. in short, momus is the monster you have all made, now leave him alone!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, no one has answered my question about the penguins yet.

For real! Is that really Momus as a penguin, or have I spent too much time on ILX?

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Penguins are prostitutes

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

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