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I have hiked about the Wiltshire Countryside. I saw TWO white horses, an Iron Age Hillfort and a Norman Motte & Bailey Castle. (I was very pleased with myself because I recognised it as being Norman without being told, even though there were no buildings left, just from the foundation plans in the crop markings.)

What have you lot done?

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I did a poop.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I didn't miss you, either, N.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all gone a bit anal. Literally.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i fell in mad love

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Awwwwwwwwwwwww serious

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I listened to the Fall

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Hooray for mad love! I tried to buy a Lush album but it was way way way too expensive on American import. :-(

I walked along The Ridgeway, too! People have been walking along there for 5000 years! You'd think they could do something about the potholes and the puddles in all that time...

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

did your travels take you into Oxfordshire then? Coz the White Horse in Uffington which is the jen-you-wine Stone Age White Horse as opposed to ones scored by bored soldiers in historial times is in Oxon.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to do some wandering around Wiltshire when I lived next door in Dorset.

I liked Old Sarum on the old Roman road out of Salisbury; bleak and ancient. Some lovely towns too. Marlborough, Devizes etc.

I've got a leaflet on how to see all the white horses in a day. I'm such a dufus.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

No, we didn't get into Oxfordshire. But we did get into Marlborough. Twice. God, I love the Marlborough Waitrose. It might possibly be the best supermarket in all of England. We got a lump of stilton bigger than the size of HSA's head!

And walked around looking at mad antique shops and things.

Is it a walking tour of the White Horses? Because the plaques by the Horses say that it's 90s miles or summit and takes about 4 days.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

now you've done the horses you'll have to do the men - the Rude Man of Cerne, the Long Man of Wilmington ect ect.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Nope, I'm a white figure purist, I only like the horses. The men are just pale imitations.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(Unfortunately, it's not Crop Circle season... there was beauty of a crop circle by one of the white horses the last time we were out there. Apparently the Marlborough And Pewsey Gazette says that some local bod is putting out a crop circle calendar.)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a driving tour, but it also explains how to do it across bridleways. Take a horse to the horses etc.

The white horse at Uffington in Ox is great. You can stand on its head and shout abuse at the new age people who are channeling energy or some such shite.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

You should post PIX! Nothing much has happened: Babble babble chat chit chat. Zee usual. :-)

― nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"now you've done the horses you'll have to do the men - the Rude Man of Cerne, the Long Man of Wilmington ect ect. "

I've done this!

The Long Man at Wilmington is terrific. Looks as if he is going skiing.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I cannot post pix cause we did not take a camera, sorry!

Ugh, new age hippie weirdoes, we hate them! HSA's mum rolls her eyes at them in Avebury. THey are so silly. But she always gets them out of the way shouting "Let me through, I'm an archeologist!"

I have to go watch a member of Throbbing Gristle grill a Chapman Brother tonight. Sigh. Though apparently it all takes place in a really spooky and cool former operating theatre, which is the real reason we're going, I suspect.

(And I got a big parcel full of Smoke today. It's the best thing in ages, it just reads like a really obscure ILE thread. I think I want to write for them, but I think they hate me.)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Smoke any good then? It seems to be the only think Matt at Shinkhansen is doing these days.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm suspicious of Shinkansen (you know how I PH34R the twee) but Smoke appears to be totally brilliant. A package landed on my doorway this morning, completely unrequested and out of the blue, like someone knew it would appeal to me! It's the first magazine in ages that I've actually really wanted to write for. Mind you, I've only skimmed the thing, but it reads like the most obscure Gareth/Ed/Mark S ILX thread.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I just looked at some of the extracts on the Smoke website and thought "Yes, great, BUT I LIVE IN NEWPORT!" While Sarah's fetishism for Bristol was acceptable to me because I could hop on a train and go and find these places, it's never going to happen for me and London. I'm curious as to how you managed to get an unsolicited package from Smoke now.

I've seriously derailed this thread now. Seeing as we're also mailing each other at the mo, maybe we should keep it there, Kate?

Nah, maybe not.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

does it have a feature abt how my flowerpot is full of snails?

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, but then, we deprive the rest of ILX from finding out about the wonder of Smoke...

(The unsolicited parcel was actually apparently solicited by a third party friend who saw Smoke and thought "Kate would love this!")

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.smokemag.com/

surely not??

― Red Harry (Enrique), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, I love your phrase "A big parcel full of Smoke". It's so ambiguous.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the first ever posts on the Brown Wedge was about Smoke. I feel like I ought to like it but I don't - everyone else I know (incl. the other FT editors) love it though.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Nah, it's www.smokelondon.co.uk

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.smokelondon.co.uk is more like it...

I think I understand, Tom. I was suspicious at first, thinking "Uh, no, this is TOO aimed at me, I feel like a demographic or something!" But that also makes me like it more, because it's a demographic I don't mind being part of.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The nearest I've come to articulating it is 'too wry' and 'too rockist about London'. On the other hand I can't imagine it being done any better. I have the first 2 issues lying around the flat as I'm sure I'll pick it up and read it properly one day.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Doesn't look hateful, but personally am bored of psychogeography/Sinclair/whatever axis -- not cos it's bad, just because my throat's done with being rammed quite so much.

― Nu-Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

But us non Londoners are well out of that demographic and can't get into it without a lot of money and effort.

Maybe I should try something similar for Newport - Smog, perhaps? Or The Wave. It'll extol the glories of the Duffryn school bus, watching the driver kicking kids off for throwing their bags out of the windows and their friends down the stairs.

For some reason I feel oddly proud of being in Newport all of a sudden and feel like posting a picture of The Wave.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Argh, x-post!

I wish I could get to that point, Enrique, but I crave more of that sort of stuff in my life...

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I just experience London in a different and perhaps worse way to those people - I am very much a '12CD person' when it comes to city living, with the possible exception of boozers and even then I follow in the footsteps of pioneers.

Gareth should write for it, definitely. (or edit it!)

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't find a way of moving some pics of the Wave, but here's a link...

http://www.art2architecture.co.uk/reconnected/steelwave.htm#

It's big and it's not clever. Right, I'll shut up again now.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I could easily do one for Oxford, and when I worked just out of it on a new Ballardian science park I thought about psychogeography a lot, but it's just a bit blah to me now. Sinclair also goes on about the founding of Ashmole's museum here -- fine yeah, and then the meme about it crops up on Marcello's blog... it's the Wainwrights for lapsed punxxors.

― Nu-Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

It's really strange; people fetishise London in a way that I suspect that people don't fetishise other cities. Or even if people *DO* fetishise other cities, it doesn't quite carry the weight of London Fetishisation because people have been fetishising London for two milennia at this point.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

London is easy to fetishise as it has so many layers. But kate, I think you're probably wrong about it getting more attention. NYC is the most fetishised place I know; Rome, Sydney, Paris (which I don't like at all), San Francisco, etc. etc. are all up there.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

That's almost certainly tru, but OxBridge have got a fair amount of fetish game: just about every autobiog I'm reading at the mo (of posh writers) has a big section about one or the other.

xpost

Paris -- good point, and I wuv it what are you on? New York -- by UK music journos.

― Nu-Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Barry is right, it's all about the layers. NYC has superficial fetishisation (I mean, lord knows I was guilty of that as a teenager) but it doesn't go very deep.

Oxford fetishisation is like babysteps fetishisation for college students who are going to grow up to fetishise London, so hah!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there are some cities around the world which have such good PR that they automatically become fetishised, and it's not just capital cities either. Even in the UK, places like Liverpool or Manchester are fetishised more than - say - Plymouth or Birmingham. I suppose it's down to the history of the cities sometimes.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a difference between fetishising a *place* and fetishising the music or scene around a place. I think London is genuinely the former, while NYC, Manchester, Liverpool, much of the fetishisation is fetishising a certain scene, rather than the actual city itself.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm... I can see that, but I'm inclined to disagree for some reason but I can't think of any valid points to make to prove my argument.

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's replace plymouth with london in our affections, i can't see anyone objecting to that

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Quite right. Replacing Plymouth with anything at all seems entirely acceptable.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't seen the second issue of Smoke yet. I hope I like it more than I liked the first one, which I liked quite a bit.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Gah I pressed 'submit' too early. I want Smoke, as it goes on, to focus on smaller and smaller things and to get as far away as possible from broad brushy overviews of things. There's always the fear that the articles will be like stand-up routines. "Lower Marsh, eh? What's all *that* about...?"

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I must get a copy

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Sigh. It's interesting that this turned into a dicussion of Smoke.

But I'm rather upset that I had to GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES to find out what's happened lately, what with the C@L*M ATTACK, and Tracer's landlady turning into the Dirt Queen and everything else! My god, I'd know nothing about anything if I relied on you lot!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry Kate, that was all my fault. But I did say we'd got a bit anal. And I was right. Have you found the anal sex thread yet?

― Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I avoided it thankfully. I thought it might be B*ck* L*c*s, two trolls in one day.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Does anyone else suffer from the paranoia that ILX is more interesting when you're not on it? Like, there have been all these interesting happenings over the past week, but now I'm back, all anyone wants to do is talk about bus routes. :-(

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

We're only talking about bus routes to welcome you back, Kate, you were so interested in them the other week.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Sigh. I hate busses. I hate London. I wish I hadn't read Smoke this morning to make me like it again, cause I was really getting into being a country girl.

Sigh, maybe I should dig up the Bill Viola thread or something now I've actually seen the installation.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, Kate.
In case you haven't read my two revived McLusky threads, I have gotten a new job lined up in Chicago for January, turned in my resignation here, and Nick found us a new apartment.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for the update, Sarah! I did actually skim the thread, but I don't think I said CONGRATULATIONS, WOO!!! etc. yet, so let me just take the time to do so now.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I think i should get this 'Smoke', it looks like it is aimed at me. i like things to be aimed at me, i think.

kate is correct in that london is fetishized for itself rather than for its music, in a way that, liverpool, say, is not.

a partial agreement with enrique about the ubiquity of london psychogeography. i think this does extend to other places too, but with other places it seems to be more a psychoheritageography, it is all about the past. londons psychogeography, in a way that mirrors the london-hardcore-continuum, seems to be very focused on continuity, this i can only approve of.

the same needs to be applied to goole, osnabruck, calais and st louis

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Psychogeography only really works if it is continuous. If it's all in the past, then obviously it doesn't work.

Walking along the Ridgeway could have been a totally "heritage" experience, what with the hillforts and all. But running into Wiltshire Man with soggy dog and walking stick along the track, were it not for the plastic on his wellies, he could have been from any moment of British history of the past 5000 years.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, is the @nal Sex thread worth reading? I am at work, after all, but I'm bored.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Pfft, it has its moments, Barry inadvertently quoting Michael Bolton was quite funny.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, that rated about a "meh".

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Pfft, it has its moments, Barry inadvertently quoting Michael Bolton was quite funny.

That was about the only highlight, and I'm using the word highlight pretty loosely.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah you're probably right, I was very bored waiting for work to end so it seemed more compelling than it probably should have.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, vis a vis the point that I made on this thread: Really, really long threads, classic or dud

Reading it after the fact was a bit dull. Were there any *good* rambling long threads while I was away?

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I read the Martin Orgasms thread after the fact and it was OK.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Tico's post made me laugh out loud, I wish the thread was called "Martin Orgasms".

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's that or the Tantric Tuomas thread.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, was that a different thread from the Tuomas thread that I brought up on that other thread there

God, I'm so confused...

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

No thats the one.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha I was about to post the pic that Alex in NYC started tormenting people with near the end of the work day but then I remembered what it looked like.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Please don't. Besides, my internet connection is filtered, so it probably wouldn't show up anyway.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 4 December 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If Skidders doesn't change his ILX name to Martin Orgasms I'm goshwelldarn going to learn |-|4x0r 5k331z and change it myself.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 4 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

You have to change your ILX name to Barry first.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 4 December 2003 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I might be up for that.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 4 December 2003 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha I was about to post the pic that Alex in NYC started tormenting people with near the end of the work day but then I
remembered what it looked like.

Oh, you mean this....?

Just kidding.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 4 December 2003 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

White people have asses that look like this...

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 December 2003 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey man, blame Gerald Scarfe and Roger Waters....I'm just the messenger. Talk about big asses and anal sex, and he'll come and smite ye....like an anally-fixated Cthulu!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 4 December 2003 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

My response to all this is perhaps surprisingly like Tico's.

I would be interested in a wee magazine waxing lyrical about somewhere else - Ipswich, Colchester, Oxford, Sunderland, Newport, Troon - in a way, or to a degree, that I am not about London.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 4 December 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I gave birth to a 3lb turd and named it Alfonze. He is my bestest friend.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Thursday, 4 December 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Are there any men who do NOT want to have anal sex with their girlfriends?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 4 December 2003 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Welcome back, Madame Kate! I conquered Florida and kicked Jeb Bush. (Seriously, I'd a solo Thanksgiving, caught up on emails and reflected on why the HELL I ever wanted to be an adult)

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 4 December 2003 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

None of us ever wanted to be an adult. It just kind of happened to us. Often against our will, dammit!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 5 December 2003 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

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