"Guilty pleasure"

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What a bullshit term.

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:36 (twenty years ago)

What if you take pleasure from killing people? Shouldn't you feel guilty about that?

― Huk-L, Monday, 1 November 2004 19:39 (twenty years ago)

Why Nowell?

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:40 (twenty years ago)

Well, it's a useful term for some people who choose to construct their listening experiences (to give an obvious example) around categories of "music it's OK to like" and "music it's not OK to like." But ever since I stopped doing that, I've been much happier.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago)

x post

Cuz I don't consider anything I like a guilty pleasure. Actually, I think it's dumb cuz of this new book out that tells you what guilty pleasures are. I just don't understand it. Does that make sense?

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:42 (twenty years ago)

Do you mean you don't understand the concept of guilty pleasures, or you just don't approve of it?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:43 (twenty years ago)

I agree with Nowell... Why should you feel guilty about something you like? Also, the term often implies a condescending attitude towards "lower" art.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:46 (twenty years ago)

Exactly!

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:46 (twenty years ago)

http://bestweekever.vh1.com/stewart.jpg

― Huk-L, Monday, 1 November 2004 19:49 (twenty years ago)

that is to say, if Martha Stewart was my boo, her petname would be GP.

― Huk-L, Monday, 1 November 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago)

i have several martha stewart cooking/holiday decorating books. i feel no guilt.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Monday, 1 November 2004 19:59 (twenty years ago)

Nowell, a guilty pleasure is something you enjoy despite knowing better. Something you're somewhat ashamed to like.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:01 (twenty years ago)

I think this term can apply to consuming things that are very pleasurable and yet bad for you in some respect. Like a whole pizza. Or crack.

(x-post)

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:01 (twenty years ago)

Alex, I think she knows it.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:02 (twenty years ago)

I think Nowell's got an interesting point. Maybe the term should be saved for some more extreme acts like the ones mentioned earlier — murder, raping old ladies, wearing body glitter, etc.

― Satan's Onion (twowaydream), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago)

Yes. That's what I mean. There's nothing that I'm ashamed of liking. And I don't murder, rape, or, uh, wear body glitter.

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:25 (twenty years ago)

Yes. That's what I mean. There's nothing that I'm ashamed of liking. And I don't murder, rape, or, uh, wear body glitter. So I have no guilty pleasures. Actually, maybe I do...But it's not something stupid, like liking certain music.

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:26 (twenty years ago)

DON'T MIND THAT I POSTED THE SAME MESSAGE TWICE.

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:27 (twenty years ago)

murder and rape are not guilty pleasures. They may give you pleasure and you may feel guilty about them, but they do not constitute conventional 'guilty pleasures'. Listening to Kajagoogoo or reading People Magazine or watching "the Apprentice" -- those are guilty pleasures.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago)

How are those guilty pleasures? Why? I've never watched the Apprentice. I don't watch much tv. And I don't watch reality tv at all. And there are some things that I am ashamed to like - I think...

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:35 (twenty years ago)

::::sigh:::::

They're guilty pleasures because:

1. Kajagoogoo made silly pop music without much merit, and looked damn silly doing it.
2. PEOPLE Magazine shamelessly wallows in meaningless celebrity gossip.
3. "The Apprentice" is a ridiculous waste of time, and Donald Trump is singularly vile and shallow.

However, people do eat this stuff up -- and people of otherwise reputable taste. That's why they're guilty pleasures. You should know better, but you enjoy them anyway.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:39 (twenty years ago)

Ok. You're right. Don't sigh like that.

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:40 (twenty years ago)

ny times readers like me call people like you ROCKISTS, alex.

― peter smith (plsmith), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:41 (twenty years ago)

What's a rockist?

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:42 (twenty years ago)

My questions: do guilty pleasures provide the same amount of pleasure as nonguilty pleasures? If not, are they less pleasureful because of the guilt, or because they are "lesser" (eg, "The Apprentice" is a worse TV show than "Arrested Development," so the pleasure I get from the former is less than the pleasure from the latter)? Are guilty pleasures just pleasures that take less effort to accomplish (eg, reading a John Grisham novel instead of Ulysses), hence the guilt for taking a lesser, easier pleasure over one that would be more gratifying but would take more effort?

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:43 (twenty years ago)

ROCKISTS like me call ny times readers like you PABULUM-ENGORGED SHEEP, peter.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:44 (twenty years ago)

What's a rockist?

Someone who wants his cultural pleasures to be "intelligent".

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:44 (twenty years ago)

Oh.

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:44 (twenty years ago)

That's actually not accurate, Nowell.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:45 (twenty years ago)

So what is a rockist?

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:45 (twenty years ago)

http://www.beefheart.com/zine/001/bangsrogartis.jpg

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:46 (twenty years ago)

Don't worry about it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:46 (twenty years ago)

Rockist = antipopulist.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:46 (twenty years ago)

Xpost
Tell me!

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:48 (twenty years ago)

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:58 (twenty years ago)

what nobody on this thread has considered is how your pleasures are inevitably taken and judged within social conditions that you do not choose. In other words, for all that you might want to keep saying that you don't feel guilty about the pleasures you take, this is not always in your own hands. When your tastes are seen by everyone around you as suspect, then your insistence that your pleasure is none of their business can eventually lose its force.

Guilty pleasures are guilty because they do not conform with the socially agreed idea of what counts as pleasure. You might like to think you are an individual who doesn't have to worry about what other people think of your pleasures, but, as the sociologist Bourdieu puts it: you are judged on the judgements you make!

― run it off (run it off), Monday, 1 November 2004 22:00 (twenty years ago)

Does Rockism Exist?

Rockism! - The Soundtrack: What Would This CD Comprise Of?

Anyone who mentions 'Rockism' is UNCOOL

The Schism? Random Crazed Thoughts on Rockism/Popism and what music is really FOR....

Indie pop and Rockism

What Is Rockism ?

The Scourge of Rockism

Rockism

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 22:02 (twenty years ago)

Have I missed all the mentions of masturbation on this thread?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 1 November 2004 22:35 (twenty years ago)

I hate it when other people refer to anything I'm doing as a guilty pleasure. I am reading such and such romantic comedy because I want to - you don't need to point out that it is a guilty pleasure.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Monday, 1 November 2004 22:40 (twenty years ago)

Why would masturbation be a guilty pleasure?

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:15 (twenty years ago)

Most people feel guilty about it to a degree, and it's certainly a pleasure to most. I'd have thought it was the classic example of this.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:17 (twenty years ago)

Yeah. You're right. I don't masturbate, though. Why? Well...

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:18 (twenty years ago)

I don't masturbate, though

no wonder you're so unhappy all the time.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:21 (twenty years ago)

Yeah...

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:22 (twenty years ago)

What will solve this problem?

― Nowell (Nowell), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:25 (twenty years ago)

Lots and lots of masturbation. Get to it. You'll appreciate life anew.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:30 (twenty years ago)

"Most people feel guilty about it to a degree..."

you sure about that?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 1 November 2004 23:35 (twenty years ago)

I don't think the idea of "guilty pleasures" needs to be so centered on other people's opinions: surely one of the hallmarks of a guilty pleasure is often that it's something you yourself would make fun of someone else for doing... I'd say if anything that a guilty pleasure places you at dissonance with yourself, often by representing a worldview that you find to be at odds with your own, and also perhaps by giving you the sense that -- in the process of doing/consuming/participating in it -- you're being dragged towards becoming a person you don't want to be. Sometimes that's because it's representative of, or associated with, a group of people whom you find repugnant or distasteful; sometimes that's because there's something in it that resonates with, or tends to bring out, those parts of your character you like the least; sometimes that's because it's something that has been responsible for suppressing or crowding out a form of discourse that was important to you. But regardless, for me, a guilty pleasure is one that, when the "guilt" outweighs the pleasure, gives me the uncomfortable feeling of, "Hmmm, by supporting this I'm helping to pull the world farther away from the kind of place I'd like it to be."

― christmas lights (christmaslights), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 00:17 (twenty years ago)

I f*cking hate it when my line breaks disappear.

― christmas lights (christmaslights), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 00:17 (twenty years ago)

What a rediculous point of contention. Pleasure is a priori a matter of taste. Something certainly can't both equally and simultaneously appeal and not appeal to your preference. Ergo "guilty pleasure" is a contradiction in terms. But useful as an idiomatic expression perhaps.

― mouse (mouse), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 00:30 (twenty years ago)

Something certainly can't both equally and simultaneously appeal and not appeal to your preference.

Boxing? Pornography? "Extreme Makeover"?

― christmas lights (christmaslights), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 00:32 (twenty years ago)

Anything under the sun?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 00:35 (twenty years ago)

dude. guilty pleasure is such a valid and great term.

hypothesis
guilty pleasure is a valid and great term

analysis
http://www.deonixhosting.com/~gtagang/Pictures/News/San_Andreas.jpg

Q.E.D.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 00:37 (twenty years ago)

christmas lights OTM.

also, i think the standard 'guilty pleasure' syndrome as it relates to music listening can be reversed: i.e., "i'm a huge mainstream pop fan and i only listen to music that has social relevance in the here and now, and i don't cling to some misguided notion of hierarchy and transcendence in my appreciation of art. but damn, i sure do love to pull out an eai record and enjoy some substance every once in a while. just as long as my friends don't see me doing it!"

― mattp, Tuesday, 2 November 2004 03:38 (twenty years ago)

i thought this thread was going to be about anal sex.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago)

Depends on how guilty you are of that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 17:22 (twenty years ago)

WE ARE ALL GUILTY.

― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)

Magari.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 17:35 (twenty years ago)

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