Radiohead In Not-A-Bunch-Of-Black-Guys Shocker!

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matos i like your posts in spite of their lack of moldavic qualities.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

and why shouldn't emotional range be important? there would be just as much of a problem if the Ramones had been the biggest band in the world, too--as in, gee, how does something with such preconceived limits reach so many people?

How many people realistically expect one artist to cover all of their listening needs in terms of emotional range? I guess if you're only going to listen to one artist it'll get tedious very quickly, but if you've got anything even close to a well rounded record collection (which I think most people do, in their own way), you're probably going to go to different artists for different emotions, different ideas, different occasions. So it really doesn't matter if one artist only is good at covering three or four basic emotions. Someone else will compensate.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

matthew you answer your own question: why even bring the Africa thing up at all? - as well as how it relates in the context of the culture at large. also, the notion that radiohead is painted as the only band that matters, the band that's gonna save the world with wail wail wail, exists only in xgau's head is ludicrous (see: any tagline to any radiohead cover story post-ok computer).

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

and the notion that 'africa' (and all that word apparently implies) is irrelevant to the culture at large and just a quirk of xgau's, like he's complaining there's no harmonica on the record (and btw, he's not even complaining there's no africa in yorke's voice), is ludicrous as well

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah the piece seems pretty good to me and I'm a Radiohead fan, I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

"guy"="go" above, sorry

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

all right, never mind all my smarmy posts above. the moldava thing was just dumb.

part of what i'm saying is rather simplye: it's disingenuous to say "africa" when he means "rhythm and blues"! if he actually means "africa" then it is simply not germane. (saying "rhythm and blues" isn't terribly germane either, but it's not risible.)

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

as far as wide emotional range, let's see: Atmosphere, Neil Young, the Streets, Ghostface Killah, Sleater-Kinney, Scarface, Missy Elliott, the Mountain Goats, Baaba Maal, Neko Case, Rancid, Sonic Youth, Aesop Rock, the Reputation, Mr. Lif, DJ Shadow, Queens of the Stone Age, Meshell Ndegeocello, Stephin Merritt in whatever guise, the Mekons, Rjd2, Drive-By Truckers, Spoon, Imperial Teen, Cee-Lo, Cornershop, Raphael Saadiq, Pink, Sugababes, the Rapture, No Doubt, Nas, Eminem, Pet Shop Boys, the White Stripes, Elvis Costello, Pretty Girls Make Graves, and about 100 other bands all seem a little more wide-ranging emotionally to me than Radiohead, who even when I enjoy them seem to occupy a pretty narrow range. which is fine--microhouse occupies a VERY narrow range and it's my favorite music right now.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

you have to be living on another planet to believe that "Africa" = "rhythm & blues"

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

why is saying/meaning 'africa' not germane? was it germane when eno said it?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link


I'm confused now, because earlier you (Matos) said: " why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting."

So is he invoking r&b, or african music, or what?

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Matos, what's that music you're listening to?"
"Well, dude, it's this hot mbalax record from Senegal."
"Gee, those rhythms are kind of weird, and it's kind of angular tonally. But it sounds really cool, I like it."
"That's because it's rhythm & blues!" [winks at camera]

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Microhouse - expectant sadness or stunned bliss, Matos?)

Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

(both, Cozen. it's breakbeat hardcore's flipside--expectant comedown and frenzied bliss)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

B-b-but...

I can't see why Christgau would mention Africa if he simply meant that Yorke's voice had little mbalax (or juju, or Afrobeat) in it? And this is different from Cobainbuckleyknowlesdioncreedaguilera how? I get the sense that "Africa" is meant to invoke some tradition which includes r&b and leaves out guys like Yorke.... which I think is misguided and disingenuous.

I hope this doesn't turn ugly because I'm not trying to make fun of you or anything, Matos, I'm honestly a bit confused at this point.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

hmm, I can see yr point, but saying "Africa" is also a way of saying "not remotely European." I think Xgau has written about Yorke as an inheritor of Euro art music tradition, and I certainly buy that. (also "Africa" reads better in that context than "rhythm & blues" which w/Xgau is always plenty of the point)

xpost

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

in other words, he's saying "this guy sounds completely European and not remotely African, African-American, or American" (which in Xgau's definition always retains some or plenty of Africa)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is like The Dream ILM Thread! Xgau + Racism + Overdiscussed Band!! Where's Momus?

Sonny A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

(the mbalax post was just me having fun, btw)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sonny A. otm!!! I better get out of here...

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

i wish he could describe how yorke sounds european in terms a bit more vivid and concrete. better than "pretentious college boy" at least!

(don't we all wish we could describe music in terms that are more vivid and concrete!!)

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

i guess the whole dichotomy being set up--africa on one side and "pretentious college boy" on the other--felt a bit schematic/reductionist to me and does a disservice not just to yorke but to africa and r&b etc. but it's no biggy, i'll admit.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

except he's not saying "no africa = pretentious college boy", he's saying "'Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common = pretentious college boy"

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

the problem comes because he's been putting these terms forth for years, in much more concrete ways, elsewhere and in other pieces, and he definitely expects his readership to catch the x-references. so those of us who read him a lot (like me) do, and he alienates lots of other folx. not sure what to say to that except shrug.

but there's no dichotomy being set up! he's using lack-of-Africa as a description of Yorke's vocal style--it's a parenthetical comment, used to shade the comment. he's referred to De La Soul as pretentious college boys too and you won't see him refusing to say they're African.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

(xpost duh)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

you're right! mea culpa.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

...which translates to "heavens! i kill you know ;)"

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha - people whining about xgau refusing to accept radiohead on their own terms (which he doesn't even do, he just makes note of the terms) need to accept xgau on his own terms

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Are you quite sure he wasn't making a reference to the singer of the prog band Africa?

Gavin, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like pretentious college boys.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

It wuz a Toto reference I think.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Strangely enough, Yorke's voice actually does remind me of the reedy, high-pitched, nasal inflections that I've heard in some traditional African singing (cf. Ethiopiques: Vol. 5).

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

Change "Xgau" to "pretty much every writer for the Village Voice except for sometimes Douglas Wolk" and you're OTM. Really, if anything is manifesting itself in my posts in this thread, it is just a full-on disgust with the writing/critique style typical of the Village Voice music section. It's a philosophical difference in how art and music should be discussed.

So, I've got a question. What about all the other white Europeans and Americans who don't have any trace of "Africa" in their singing voice and in their music. What about them? How is observing that Thom Yorke's voice isn't at all like an African's a unique thing about his music compared to loads of other musicians? It's hardly like he's alone in being a popular white singer who doesn't affect mannerisms that people would normally associate with black singers of any nationality.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Er... Toto, right.

Gavin, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha - people whining about xgau refusing to accept radiohead on their own terms (which he doesn't even do, he just makes note of the terms) need to accept xgau on his own terms

I think that depends on whether or not you are willing to consider writing music reviews for free newspapers given away on the street corner to be an artform.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not that writing music reviews for publications that one would have to pay for in any way better or worse, mind you.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

matthew did you read the black (haha) parts of the quote you pulled up top, or just the read parts

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

a whore like the rest >>>>>>> "high and dry"

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Did he read anything, is the question. Or did he just start projecting right away.

Ben Williams, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

"james taylor marked for death" >>>>>>>>>> james taylor's "everyday"

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

trying to understand the eagles >>>>>>>>>>> "get over it"

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

By the way, I concede a number of points to Michaelangelo re: Christgau's description of Yorke's voice. I was being very unfair to Christgau, this is true. I'll go sit in the corner for an hour for being reactionary.

I still think the review was lame.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

trying to understand the eagles >>>>>>>>>>> "get over it"

TS: Radiohead vs Eagles vs POX Eagles

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Posting on ILM while in calm, level-headed state >>>>>> Posting while in annoyed, irritable mood.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Robert Christgau is absolutely fucking awful.

Evan (Evan), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

get over it Evan!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like pretentious college boys.

so does Xgau, as anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention to him ever can attest

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

christgau is awesome and w/o ilm i never would have discovered him. ilm, i kiss you!

disco stu (disco stu), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

so does Xgau, as anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention to him ever can attest

Matos, one day you will be famous enough that people will assume you are saying Xgau is gay. They may even start threads about it.

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 01:14 (twenty years ago) link


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