The, erm "official" Kanye "College Dropout" thread

Funny thing is, this is an album for people who are have long been deeply into hip hop, and can't buy into the whole Ying Yang/Banner bullshit.

If you listen to hip hop radio (for me, Hot 97 in NYC), you'd know how badly it needs something like this.

But anyway, there's an inevitable ILM backlash brewing (...people love something for 4 weeks, then turn on it once it's officially released).

Jazzy Phizzle is only on one track on the Twista CD though, caveat emptor, there are TWO Kanye West tracks. That's okay for me because I like Kanye.

i think banner has a lot more to say than kanye and his winking "ain't talkin bout coke and bird/more like spoken word," or however that line goes, shit. all that shit about buying a benz ironically or whatever, fuck that shit. he has nothing to say and he says it's in the cutest, most annoying way possible over his easy listening soul samples and shitty drums.

Also, the beats are fucking hott, ie. "Spaceship," "Breathe In Breathe Out," "Workout Plan," etc. and not just hott but actually sometimes really moving too...I don't think there's anyway that anyone could listen to something as powerful as "Jesus Walks" and think "tasteful regression."

sub-lloyd banks punchlines

Explain, please.

*) the one with Busta and the one with Scarface

That's what i was trying to express:the way that many ILM people are so aware of being seen as indie hip hop/indie rock/indie-anything tasteful and intelligent that they'll push all the things that actually aren't memorable or lyrically interesting. Sure, anyone can use the comeback that it's what they actually like, but sometimes people are a little obvious or transparent...

hence, outkast, mos, kanye, = for people who are "new" to hip hop.

so stupid...it feels dumb having to write it, but i've listened to hip hop for 15 years, have maybe 500 hip hop albums, and this is fresh. crunk is not.

it's the same reason i'm inherently distrustful of people who like pop-country, even though there is quite a lot of very good pop-country, this anti-alt.country movement just reeks of bullshit faux-populism to me.

lyrically and sonically, it's all tasteful regression, which is fine but "this is fresh. crunk is not." isn't really, like, true or anything.

let me count thee ways it's not:

It sounds nothing like "Supa Dupa..." Kanye does not chop up 4/4 loops. Timba does. The beats are lush, not minimal. To add "soul samples"...well, given that Timba uses keyboard sounds, aren't we talking two different producers????
A slow rapper doesn't mean lobotomized. Rakim flows slow.
Nas has no sense of humor. Kanye does.
Nas talks street. Kanye does not.

(x-post)

plus the insane drum break and Ziggy Elman's trumpet solo on Benny Goodman's "Bei Mir Bist du Schoen" from the 1938 Carnegie Hall concert, that's more hip-hop than John Mayer!

(I've got a couple gigs coming up in a few months at Magnus with my nu-klezmer band!)

He's easy to follow, is why I think he's popular and the punchlines are sorta dorky like I can listen to this in the background and still follow it.

There's this cool laid-back attitude, like he's half-playin' and he knows it, the same as his mixtapes that there's a goof to the whole thing, a nice sharp cynicism about everything and i heart how his voice is all wobbly and his flow is like he just rips jay's catchiest meters -- tho when he tries to switch it up like "breathe in breathe out" it starts to drag -- its like he's got all the signifiers in place, but he's leaving the space open for someone with more skillz but a different ethic -- like remember when paul simon sang the fake-words for "yesterday" and they were like "scrambled eggs -- oh baby you got lovely legs" and you wish it STAYED like that? that's how the whole album is.

Makes a total case for Wanderland style afro-no-futurism being the normative mode for producers. Kodwo on N*E*R*D to thread!

d.k. check for example from self-conscious (All Falls Down):

"But the people highest up got the lowest self esteem
The prettiest people do the ugliest things
For the road to riches and diamond rings
We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres
And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop
Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coupe

I say fuck the police, thats how I treat em
We buy our way out of jail, but we can't buy freedom
We'll buy a lot of clothes when we don't really need em
Things we buy to cover up what's inside
Cause they make us hate ourself and love they wealth
That's why shortys hollering "where the ballas' at?"
Drug dealer buy Jordans, crackhead buy crack
And a white man get paid off of all of that
But I ain't even gon act holier than thou
Cause fuck it, I went to Jacob with 25 thou
Before I had a house and I'd do it again"

or from "we don't care":
"The second verse is for my dogs working 9 to 5
That still hustle cause a nigga can't shine off $6.55
And everybody selling make-up, Jacobs
And bootleg tapes just to get they cake up
We put shit on layaway then come back
We claim other kids on our income tax
We take that money cop work than push packs to get paid
And we don't care what people say
Momma say she wanna move south
Scratchin lottery tickets Eyes on a new house
Around the same time Doe ran up in dudes house
Couldnt get a job
So since he couldnt get work he figured hed take work
The drug game bolemic its hard to get weight
So niggas money is homo its hard to get straight
So we gon keep baking to the day we get cake.
And we dont care what people say "

Also how dull is Last Call!!!

haha thanx sterling

Sterling, "Last Call" is one of my favorite tracks! although yeah, the beat is a little dull (it was co-produced by Evidence from Dilated Peoples). but it's a great response to all the haters and a great way to sum up how he managed to turn things around from back when noone thought he'd make it as a rapper. while we're quoting verses:

"Some say he arrogant, can y'all blame him?
It was straight embarrassing how y'all played him
Last year shopping my demo I was trying to shine
Every motherfucker told me that I couldn't rhyme
Now I could let these dream killers kill my self esteem
Or use my arrogance as the steam to power my dreams
I use it as my gas so they say that I'm gassed
But without it I'd be lost so I ought to laugh
So I don't listen to the suits behind the desk no more
You niggas wear suits because you can't dress no more
You can't say shit to Kanye West no more"

also, "Never Let Me Down" is overall one of my least favorite tracks, but parts of Kanye's verse I love, especially the line "I do plan to marry your daughter, and you know I gotta thank you for the way that she was brought up". I mean, that's such a beautiful, wholesome sentiment, not even some sensitive indie rocker would have the guts to say something like that on a record, it's kind of ballsy.

I think El-P is a criminally underrated rapper, esp. as a lyricist.

"Squeegee Man Shooting" is fantastic... "wrote raps in my room sippin' capri suns..."

Agreed. But I like his voice a LOT. Especially on something like "Let's Get High"

"Jesus Walks" was the #1 most requested song today on the radio here, which may be due more to the recent surge of Jesus's popularity than Kanye's, i dunno, but "All Falls Down" was I think #3, and they keep playing the Lauryn Hill version here.

"Wow"
"Hey Mama"
"You Know" (aka "I'm Here Now") f/ John Legend, Whiteboy and Belo
"Apologize"
"Wack Niggas" f/ Talib Kweli
"I Need To Know"
"Finally Got It Right"
"Arguments" (featuring samples of Martin Lawrence standup)
"Yeah"
"Dream Killers" (aka "Gossip Files")
"Out The Game" f/ John Legend and Consequence
"The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly" f/ Consequence
"Keep The Receipt" f/ Dirt McGirt
"Livin' A Movie"
"My Way"
"Home"

it's kind of a shame Kanye leaks so many tracks, at least half of these are as good as anything on The College Dropout. he almost has enough for another album already, but by the time he's ready to put one out this stuff will have been out too long to use.

Tell me about this person.

haha too true.

I did the evil villian "mwahahaha" laugh when I read that.