No, really, why are CD's supposed to be a superior format?

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Don't they only have something like a 15-20 year lifespan? Is the sound quality REALLY better than well-pressed (180gm) vinyl?

Consumers DEMAND to know.

(...but have no idea where to find out, so turn to ILM)

― billslord, Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Portable

― Aja (aja), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

when i bought Godflesh's Streetcleaner when it came out the cd sounded fine. Now the same copy is so low i can barely hear it even if i turn it up really loud. i have no idea what this means.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

They fit inside my ass so much better.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

100 Reasons why vinyl is the superior format.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you still buy vinyl?

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think the 180gm vinyl makes for better sound in and of itself, but it does make it more durable as vinyl does get more brittle with age.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

100 albums that sound better on vinyl..

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, music sounds shit on CD and vinyl.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

New formats are needed.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

New formats would also give rise to opportunities for more exciting debates.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously, the wax cylinder is the superior format and should be embraced by format fetishists everywhere.

― jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'm gonna pop out for some borscht.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

could you get me the new Edison cylinder while you are out? "Mary Had A Litte Lamb" is mad killer.

― jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

you can melt them down to make clothes for s&m parties

― snd, Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

those edison cylinders sound cool, but you need really pristine ones or they sound like shit. old 78's on a victrola if they are nice copies sound amazing. kinda creepy even cuz the music and voices sound like they are actually there in the room with you. there is a full-bodied aura they have that is just wild.and they don't compare to any digital format. they are just different sounds. digital sounds don't have the same heaviness. but digital sounds have their own benefits of course. electronic music sounds grand on cd if it's done well.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

reminds of a Bruce Russell interview in Popwatch in which he talked about how vinyl and cd are suitable for different ranges of frequencies, etc.

― jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, they both have their pros and cons. i lean toward the analog as opposed to the digital, but i would be lying if i said their weren't some exciting things you can do with digital sound.it will only get better too.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

20 years from now, heck, maybe 10 years from now, whatever digital format that is out there will no doubt sound staggering. it's still early in the game.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm waiting for all cd's to sound as awe-inspiring as the stockhausen direct-to-disc 45 r.p.m. recording i have that was made in the 70's i believe. acoustically, cd's just don't blow me away as much. too much compression a lot of the times that makes things flat. i haven't heard any of the new fancy cd's that they are trying to get people to buy though. i want the sound to bounce of the walls and reverberate and be 3D like a good record can be. plus, a lot of modern stuff isn't even using all of the capabilities of the medium. some of the new rock/rap records i hear could be in friggin' mono and no one would even know.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I find it hard to tell the difference between nowadays cd's and vinyl already. Cd-editions from the eighties sounded crappy, because of technical limitations, but also because recordcompanies couldn't care less and just grinded out their backcatalogues head over heels at the lowest costs. The nowadays digital remaster sounds terrific (imho) and the sacd sounds even better (must admit: only experienced the normal cd-side of the sacd, not the sa-side).
As far as I'm concerned it's no longer a matter of what sounds better, vinyl or cd, but which of the two sounds (there is a slight difference) you like the most. My choice: the cd-format.

― Roger in Mokum (Roger T), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

What about the lifespan of CD's, though? Someone was telling me the other day that a lot of the first CD's pressed (if that's the term)are now unplayable...which, admittedly could be more to do with record companies getting stuff on CD as quickly and cheaply as possible.
But, hell, i've got CD's i bought last year that won't play...

― billislord, Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I know of only one example and that was because of an error in manufacturing. Those interested can find the story here.

I believe that regarding to the materials used in cd-manufacturing the lifespan of your regular disc is about 50 years.

My oldest discs date from 1985 and still play well.

― Roger in Mokum (Roger T), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

This sort of thread baffles me as I have never heard anything on vinyl.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

are you five years old?

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Sunday, 22 February 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yes.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 22 February 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

MP3 REVOLUZION!!!!! 576kbps!!!!!

― Adm Mhel (adam michel), Sunday, 22 February 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.projex.demon.co.uk/bugs.html

scroll down halfway.

personally I don't like vinyl because I don't have a record player.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Sunday, 22 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

the cheapest cd players play a CD well, the cheapest record players mess with pitch and screw things up.

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 22 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

in other words, if had money and wanted to spend it on being neurotic about sound quality, I would buy lots of vinyl and keep it in a enviornment adverse to scratch.

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 22 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

how do MP3's compare to CD and vinyl? how about MP3 vs AAC vs WMA? which sounds better?

― lovebug starski, Sunday, 22 February 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

It depends on the encoding rate (ie. how small a file they are compressed into). I think few people can tell the difference between a CD and a mp3 encoded at 256kps or higher, unless they have really great equipment. AAC is supposed to give you higher performance than MP3s on a filesize:quality ratio.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks!

― lovebug starksi, Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow. Pere Ubu hate vinyl...

I'm kinda glad I got the Datapanik in the Year Zero boxset and didn't get the DitYZ EP on original 12".

― Sasha (sgh), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hello - I'm a time traveller from 1985. Are you guys crazy still listening to LPs? CDs have perfect sound, will never wear out and you can throw them across the room, spread jam on them and they still won't skip!

― Marty McFly (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck you, McFly.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 23 February 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I, uh, still have CDs from at least 15 years ago, and they still play fine.... so much for that myth.

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

My theory is that, well here it goes:

I've noticed that a lot of record players send out a very low frequency hum. Mine does it considerably louder than most but i've noticed it on several others. I think this is where people are getting that "warm, satisfactory" vinyl sound from.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

make sure you don't have the dust cover on your turntable. all kinds of interference is created that way. check your connections. if it still makes a noise buy a new one.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Doesn't that just mean you haven't grounded your turntable, dog latin?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Rookies.

― maypang (maypang), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

warmth sucks. give me cold, clinical, chilly sounds.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

sometimes

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The sound of vinyl is so much more alive! CDs somehow manage to flatten the sound. It sounds like the frequency range is not enough.

― daavid (daavid), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

blame the mastering for that

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

better still, blame hstencil.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not too bothered. I don't own an awful lot of vinyl, and yes it's likely to be faulty wiring.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

That low frequency hum is at 60hz & you should definitely make sure your grounding wire is attached.

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Lady, if you have to ask...

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, my post made no sense in context of the thread question, which is asking why CDs are superior. I should have stuck to my intitial instinct, which was not to respond at all. Oh well.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

This "warmth" or "hum" is accomplished by the air filter in my room anyway, so I have nothing to worry about.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 23 February 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(Speaking of MP3s et al, lossless compression is the next big thing. Compression schemes like APE, SHN, and FLAC are able to compress the audio tracks on a CD to almost half their size, and once downloaded, they can be extracted back to a full-size, identical copy of the CD data [or played as they are with a decent player, i.e. foobar2000]. Forget AAC, MP3 has won this round and lossless compression is the next contender as hard drives and broadband become larger/wider and cheaper. BTW, VBR [variable bitrate] MP3s encoded with recent versions of LAME beat 256kbps-and-up constant bitrate rips on the filesize:quality ratio. A current-gen LAME --alt-preset standard rip is virtually indistinguishable from CD for anyone but audiophiles with hifi gear, and, uh, bats and dolphins.)

― -_- (-_-), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

You build more roads to ease the traffic and they just fill up with more cars..

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I have all my iPod stuffed with 160 bit AACs and don't know the difference cause I am not an auidiofile with a tightass asshole.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Monday, 23 February 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I find it difficult to imagine that there was once a time when vinyl was the standard format, being as I am so young and innocent.

Middle aged people and indie-kids (although the latter are more interested in something called a "seven inch" which is apparently the trendy 'in' thing to have) seem to like vinyl a lot.

― Stupid (Stupid), Monday, 23 February 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: your iPod or this here collection of cassette dubs.

― maypang (maypang), Monday, 23 February 2004 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm interested in a seven inch.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 23 February 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't even remember what vinyl sounds like. My parents' turntable broke down years ago. I've been listening to CD's and cassettes for most of my music-listening life. Vinyl fetishism is all well and good for those who started out listening to vinyl and prefer to stick with it, but for someone like me it's just silly.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

listening to not-pristine vinyl = watching an old movie print = distracting to some people

listening to cds that don't have great mastering = watching a vhs

neither should appreciably affect one's enjoyment of the real content

but if you are a music junky you will inevitably make a choice

― mig, Monday, 23 February 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer listening to loud, busy music (ie., rock) on vinyl - but music with quiet passages and dynamic shifts (ie., most classical and jazz) is better on CD. No matter how pristine your records are, you're going to hear some distracting surface artifacts during those quiet passages.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 23 February 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

listening to cds that don't have great mastering = watching a vhs

neither should appreciably affect one's enjoyment of the real content

As opposed to watching a DVD or as opposed to watching it at the cinema? If the latter then woah, big difference to the content.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

How many times are people going to crap on and on and on about this bullshit? and bringing MP3s into it is complete bollox. don't you people know anything?

for christs sake.

one argument for analogue recording techniques runs:
you can get "beating" in the audible freqquency range produced by very very high frequency sounds that will not be recorded by digital techniques. but may ( depending on the frequency range of the mic etc..) by analogue techniques.

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Monday, 23 February 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It can't be long until VHS fetishists are going to pop up denouncing DVD for lacking the subtle image "warmth" that only analogue video can provide.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 23 February 2004 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I've actually heard this from two people already.

― maypang (maypang), Monday, 23 February 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

On some crappy DVDs/players, the compression "noise" is more distracting than VHS fuzz... but I rarely see this.

I think grainy VHS has a nice, audiotape-style nostalgia appeal, but I'd never call it "superior" to anything.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 23 February 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

a brand new, crisp VHS picture is fine. a played-for-the-fiftieth-time VHS picture is not.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 23 February 2004 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

DVD = Perfect Visuals Forever.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

or more accurately, consistent visuals forever

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

booo vhs sucks especially that horrible horrible vhs sound

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

it's all about the Beta, dudes. it's what all the hipsters watch. either that or super 8.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

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