What was the concensus on the "I really fancy a friend of mine but don't want to mess up my friendship by asking her out" question again?

Ahem.

YES: 2
NO: 4

The no's have it by the looks of things.

also - what d'you actually mean by "ask her out"? If you hang out a lot anyway, might she not actually realise she's being "asked out" as such? This has happened to me a lot of late, and the results have been comically confusing.

It kind of depends on how well you know the person as well - if its someone you're just becoming friends I reckon that makes things easier, and the fallout won't be nearly as bad if things don't end up as you've hoped. If you're not especially close friends it might either drive a wedge between you or bring you close together even if it doesn't have the desired effect. There's really no hard and fast rule.

if, by 'asking her out', you mean just hang out normally and at some point try to make some smooth move and kiss her-- don't. awkwardness awaits you. and maybe a slap in the face.

but if you said something (like 'i think you're cute, want to go on a date?') first, that gives her time to think about it and agree or disagree.

(xpost-- and matt, aren't you glad you at least KNOW now?)

Johnney B, by the looks of your email address, you're English, right?

Americans on this thread take note - English people don't date! There's barely such a concept. English people "hang out with mates", and "do stuff in the same place at the same time", til at some point, both parties are somehow separated from the rest of the group - at the bar/jukebox/fag machine/etc - drunk and susceptible enough to take the plunge and do domething rash and ill-conceived like go in for the kiss, in the vain hope that a. it'll be reciprocated, or b. if it isn't, it'll be put down to experience/inebriation and everything'll be fine in the morning.

dating is good. english people should do it more.

(xpost with ronan: true. have you been thinking about this for a while? or is it just something you're considering slightly? more details please)

The time before that we went out for four months - but that happened more from the sort of scenario Charlie describes rather than a "hey, I have a bit of a thing for you" situation. It all depends on how serious your feelings are.

Alternatively, here are a number of approaches you could try.

This happened to me once. At least you will find out what she's really like. Rather that than wondering "what if".

If however you just want a fuck, then forget it.

andrew, that is the cutest conversation ever. what was the result?

(herbie, are you actually my little brother? that used to be his nickname when we were kids...)

"if by working out you mean smoking a pack a day and sitting on my fat ass"-strongo

Haha Colette, was this anything like our tube journey from Balham to Highbury after the comedy?

could he at least prepare with some 'i kinda have a crush on you' conversations?

Do people actually say things like that to each other after the age of 12? I mean, I can imagine confiding in a friend that I fancy another friend, but actually walking up to someone, locking their gaze and saying "I weally weally godda cwush on yooouuu" makes me want to disappear into a hole in the ground - not becauee I don't have the confidence to express my feelings towards someone, but just...all the terminology sounds so fuckin' stupid!

dating is good. english people should do it more.

I think you're probably right. I've been on one actual date in my life, five years ago - I was so intrigued at having been asked, and so flattered that someone would actually bother to single me out of the melee of people surrounding us, that I simply said "sure" without even thinking about it. Naturally, being English, we went on a pub crawl of Upper Street...

I know traditionally we've been rather more haphazard about the whole friendship/relationship divide and rely on alcohol to cover the cracks, but isn't there something of a sea change going on?

I've been told this is the case, only last night in fact. I dunno, dating all seems so clinical and contrived and cold and hard and...dead, somehow. I kinda prefer the random, chaos-theory aspects of The English Way - it somehow seems more "romantic" (sic) to leave meetings/dalliances to chance to some extent, rather than ruthlessly engineering a "this is the bit where we're meant to kiss or something" moment.

i can say with confidence that any of my english friend girls would be really excited to be asked on a date. especially if it was to somewhere other than the pub.

Of course! But therein lies the problem. It's not just confined to girls, y'know?

Also, if I go on a date with someone, I might end up "dating" them, and once againm I'm lost in some weird 1950s American netherworld full of Proms and "going steady" and friendship rings and the word "dreamboat" and basically a load of other stuff I learnt from "Heathers" and "Back To The Future"...

BRITISH PEOPLE DO GO ON DATES YOU MORANS. But we've covered this before.

see? confirmation that i SUCK at small talk. and considering that it was more than 5 minutes, i should have introduced you to the crying girl or something!

ok. i want to reply to this more. but i'm going to go learn how to do italics first. i think it's time.

Colette: you used to call your brother "Herbie 4000". How bizarre. Is he a little fucked up now?

Who was this Charlie?

But with HSA and I, there was never a "just friends" stage first, he made it obvious from the first meeting what his intentions were.

he's not fucked up. he's a good kid.

(you're not him, right? i can keep telling embarrassing stories about my love life?)

1) three years taken off my life.
2) one more character building story.
3) "I'm not really looking for someone right now", leading to 18 months of awkwardness before a rephrased question reveals that if she was, it wouldn't be me.
4) "humourous" postmortem worthy of The Office.

Also if you are going to ask someone out, I would advise having something else to do that you can crash and walk away from if necessary. Don't go round to their flat just to do so, because Miss Manners is strangely silent on how long you're supposed to hang around for afterwards.

(italics are <I> to start and </I> to stop)

From the ILX dating advice archive, kindly linked to above:

White Men Who Exclusively Date Asian Women
In this thread, Sarah keeps everyone up to date with her/Link's adventures in Hyrule
American date format - why, god, why?
SO YOU CAN DRINK YOUR OWN URINE ON A DATE!!!!
Could I have a Big Mac, regular fries and a date?

And my personal favourite,

did Ned get lucky ?

On my first date I ended up in Lewisham Hospital. We went out for a year after that.

xpost-- yes! kate, you sounded SO CANADIAN on saturday!

As for the asking out a friend thing, I did this once in the first year of uni and she turned me down, saying she'd probably cheat on me. I thought fair enough, as she was a bit of a tart half the time (she slept with my good friend and next-door neighbour, tho' to be fair, he fucked every girl in the 1st year, more or less). However, once her annoying tendencies started to really show (incessant banging on about herself, who she was shagging, falsely accusing me of being rude to her boyfriend once), I thought it a real mercy to find outr friendship deteriorated rapidly over the following 2 years.

None of this obliterates the sad fact that I met someone 100 times more wonderful 2 years ago, only she comes with a boyfriend who I can't remove from the equation and thereby ask her out. Probably doesn't help that we've been on separate continents since 2 summers ago.

That's not fair! What if dude is trying to "build up the reservoir" in order to make the first encounter more "magical" (ie, sticky)?

My dancing gets better the more everyone else drinks, hence Colette's being impressed at my attempt at 'the worm' being connected to the fact that it was last thing on the last night at ATP.

As I said upthread, some people, like the guy who finished with my friend after two dates cos he "didn't want to rip her clothes off", seem to think an utterly overwhelming lustful attraction is VITAL to a burgeoning relationship, but personally I reckon that kinda gets in the way of how you really feel about them.

In conclusion...er...if you *really* fancy them, then...oh I don't bloody know obviously.

Hmmm. Perhaps it's a great way to think if you get that overwhelming lustful thing on a fairly regular basis, but what if you never do? Or what if you *always* so? These sorts of emotions are only useful if they're distinct to how you usually feel in some way innit!

A friend advised me once that if I fancy someone, I should just ask them to dinner. Any thoughts, ILX?

Under the circumstances, being on different continents probably does help.

Yeah, but it doesn't when I go back to uni and hang with her or do crazy things like phone her up from 3000 miles away just to say "Hey" (because an e-mail wouldn't have been enough, oh no).

Having said that, she really liked the phone call.

Yes, I've had lots of actual dates - I may even start doing so again shortly.

Mr Smee gave me a lift home from work then came right out and told me how much he liked me (in great detail) and he really wanted to see more of me, it had never happened to me and I was gobsmacked and went several shades of scarlet before thinking, hmmmm, I like this direct approach....We then arranged a meeting, got drunk together several times and THEN had a proper real life date, at his suggestion.

But, to answer the orig question - you HAVE to ask. IMO once you've decided you're in crush/lust with her the agony of *carrying on as friends* is worse than rejection. But wait.... you MIGHT NOT BE TURNED DOWN!!

x-post - unless she's taken already (though seriously, I ALWAYS think I should just tell her), but enough about me. That's otm, Dr.

This is a short-term problem that is best ignored.

Ov course I don't do any of this anymore, having lovely wife and all that.

i don't think the other person will stop being friends with you just because you asked him/her out. as long as you're not too over the top with your advances.

What happens to Jel after nightfall? Some kind of Teenwolf type situation, I'll warrant.

Haha dates are rubbish if you just want a shag. Actually, even if you really do care about the other person's mind and soul but are sexually frustrated, you'll cock it up in some way, probably with a horrible drunken lunge scene. So: do as Ben Stiller does in There's Something About Mary and have a preparatory relaxing wank.

strikes me as otm. as does the entirety of that post, sadly

i thought sexual frustration was all about cocking up anyway.

Farrell is showing off, with all his talk of... dates.

Heavens no.