You're a bunch of Voice-worshipping music-critic pretenders.

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or so says Andy Wang in this Broken Social Scene review.

He also uses the word "fuck" twice in the same paragraph, so you know he's pretty hard.

Enjoy.
TMFTML

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I am jealous of Pitchfork! It's official!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish i hadn't read that, what a wanker.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just confused. What about those people here who write for Pitchfork? Mr. Wang = poor researcher.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

pitchfork in clear thinking, readable shocker

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

NY Press in hating the Voice at all times, loudly shockah

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Matos you didn't answer my email, did I yak on your sleeve or something

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"These writers have wasted thousands of words railing against Pitchfork’s fakeness, shallowness, whatever."

has anyone here ever moaned about Pitchfork being 'fake' or 'shallow'? really?

― DG (D_To_The_G), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Bluto: "Did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
Delta house member, responding to puzzled look: "Don't stop him, he's on a roll"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I THINK THIS MEANS WE'VE WON!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

but at what cost?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

like....he's called WANG.

what is pitchfork...and when was indie rock highly experimental ?

― gE0rdIEr0b0t (s.r.w.), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Hilarious. So don't hate on Pitchfork just because it's sophomoric and amateurish just like the music they write about, and because they occasionally get something right?

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

they bring it on themselves with fans like these, they really do.

I mean isn't the main gripe with Pitchfork, the eternal, never ending one, the fact that it is so blinkered towards indie rock. Yet this guys article is written as though this was the only genre which exists.

Also I have a burning and a bitter hatred for the tendency among indie fans to rationalise other peoples dislike for things. If you're reviewing Broken Social Scene and the best thing you can tack together is a disclaimer about why the band aren't universally critically acclaimed then you might want to consider an alternate career.

It's always a danger in criticism to begin a review with an axe to grind, but to not use your better judgement to leave all of this out is ridiculous, particularly when the band is one which generates about as much controversy as me forgetting to empty the lawnmower.

This whole answer is a waste of time but might as well get the hate out here for fear I'd make an absolute sheeps balls by including it in an article. Heaven forbid.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

But can you think of any time you cared more about music than when you were in college?

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha this article is like a professional troll: "the wrongly named 'i love music' board"...he should have questioned whether or not we have indie guilt too

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

but at what cost?

We got what we wanted, but lost what we had.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

jess I'd totally like your writing better if it wasn't so darn "impenetrable."

Also, I love that "fakeness, shallowness, whatever". Well gee, I dunno "Andy Wang", you tell me?

What a bizarre article - the diatribe is completely gratuitous. He could've used his word count to actually say something about this supposedly interesting band, but chose to go off on this neurotic tangent. Surely most readers won't even know what he's talking about. Does NYPress have editors?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone needs to start a "Broken Social Scene sucks" thread. Pitchfork likes them, you know.

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The leap from talking about BSS to talking about... pitchfork and ILM is so tortured it makes my head hurt. I think my stomach is twitching in sympathy pain for the laws of logic.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

of course, the fact that BSS is one of the most boring bands in the whole fucking world has nothing to do with it.

also, he compains about the voice's "impenetrable prose" and I'm no reader of the voice, so I wouldn't know, but impenetrable is surely preferable to his teenaged-diary scribblings.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

We should have Custos give him a logistical beatdown.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn--of course I did. Busy busy busy is all.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, my sister is dating one of the NY press editors. Apparently they hate Andy Wang too, or at least he does.

― NA. (Nick A.), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan you FUCKING FUCK, empty the FUCKING lawnmower NOW!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The really funny thing is when you check out Broken Social Scene...C/D? and see that BSS were rated fairly high.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"empty the lawnmower"??

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i think diamond/sterlings point(s) are what stuck out most for me: what editor would have thought that pitchfork/ilm were worth that much column space, let alone in such an irrational/inexplicable way? ha, ironically i can tell you that chuck would have cut it in 10 seconds as "unrelated".

i think he means the fancy "bag" tracer...you know those brits

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Does NYPress have editors?

Jeff Koyen, its editor-in-chief, writes a terrific column that always begins like this: "So Ilya, the thirty-dollar an hour Uzbekistani whore, is ramming a giant black dildo up my ass."

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy Wang = Federico

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean seriously, those of you pro writers or in publishing (because I'm not) - enlighten me. How can a professional editor - a guy on somebody's payroll to edit; a guy getting up, going to work everyday and receiving a salary to edit - receive this piece and not ask him to rewrite it? How does that process work?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

dude I just realized who andy wang is!!

Former editor of never-ran webmag ironminds.com, broken scorned and bitter.

http://www.nypress.com/content.cfm?content_id=2953

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe he's bitter that ILx has become something of a Voice farm team and NY Press hasn't. (haha, I've written for both so I'VE PAID MY DUES TWICE OVER MOTHERFUCKERS!)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the fact that indie rock has just now discovered (according to Wang) that the age of the individual auteur is over. Isn't this precisely the grounds upon which indie purists slagged off on dance music back when electronica boomed in the US? (Michiko Kakutani in indie purist shocka!)

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

according to NY Press electronica doesn't exist

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean seriously, those of you pro writers or in publishing (because I'm not) - enlighten me. How can a professional editor - a guy on somebody's
payroll to edit; a guy getting up, going to work everyday and receiving a salary to edit - receive this piece and not ask him to rewrite it? How does
that process work?

Well, it's a column, for one thing. Most editors don't give a shit that somebody whom someone else hired is making an ass of themselves.
You should see the stuff that runs in the paper that I write for. Yeesh.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan you fuck you don't even push the fucking thing it's a FUCKING RIDE-ON YOU SELL-OUT!!

also you veered to go over a slug you hata

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Former editor of never-ran webmag ironminds.com

Oh that's funny. Paul Chaplin of MST3K got in some good pieces for Ironminds but that was about all it was worth.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Wang also had a hand in that Brooklyn weekly that the genuinely horrible Erin Franzman started up a couple years back; not sure if that's still around (I'm guessing not)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

The Broken Social Scene thing really was great to see. I think there was sort of an editorial decision at Pitchfork to really dig through everything that came in and really push for the worthwhile stuff that wasn't getting coverage elsewhere -- hence Ryan's review starting off by talking about how terrible the packaging made it look. But it really is a good and interesting record: it sounded that way to me straight off, and when the review ran the American readers agreed and the Canadian readers said "told you so" and everyone was happy. I dunno, it was sort of a heartwarming example of things going right, you know -- indie site finding good indie record its indie-fan readers are gonna enjoy. It brings a tear to your eye, man.

I don't remember ILM saying anything at all about all of that -- in fact, if I remember right there are plenty of people here who like Broken Social Scene and were happy to see them getting attention. This just might possibly maybe have something to do with the fact that it's an indie record and not Basement Jaxx or Fischerspooner -- and even in the depths of ILM Pitchfork-bashing I don't think anyone's argued that Pitchfork doesn't know how to deal with indie records (except for the people who say "oh they're poor fact-checkers cause that bass player's name is Fischer, not Fisher" and the ones who say "oh all their writers suck" as if they've actually paid attention to which is which).

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't figure out where I fit in: I like Broken Social Scene, I'm a member of ILM, I used to write for P'fork and now I write for the Voice. I FEEL CONFLICTED!!!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Although Ronan, I have to say that I've never understood why the "Pitchfork is too indie" complaint would make any more sense than "The Source is too hip-hop."

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

When You Forgot It in People dropped in Canada last year

This is GEBT! Albums just don't drop in Canada often enough, yo.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

becuz the Source doesn't devote 10% of its space to stating 'our music is REAL music, unlike that crap on the CMJ charts'

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

the ones who say "oh all their writers suck" as if they've actually paid attention to which is which

You mean it's not just one guy using different names?

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

hell hath no fury like the ILM massive publicly slandered

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

plus the lawn looks like shit also

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, Blount, I think that's a cheap caricature: I can't say I get to read everything on Pitchfork, but I think that attitude's something that gets read into the material far more than it's actually there.

I mean, it's an indie review site with some coverage in other "compatible" genres; over the past half-year or so I don't think any of the forays into other genres have wound up like the Basement Jaxx or Fischerspooner reviews did, since writers like Richardson, Beta, Martelli, and Shephard pretty much know what they're doing outside of indie. I'm sure some of my forays into dance music have been painfully ill-informed, but at least they've been, umm, enthusiastic.

Anyway, ILM is gonna like Pitchfork a whole lot better pretty soon, is my guess.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

wait a minute... you guys are all rock critics!

― autovac (autovac), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

what Nabisco said. ilm has its ears hyperattenuated to potential indie-condescension like an evangelical Christian monitoring a gay schoolteacher: "See! See! He's trying to indoctrinate them!" "Cool down, man, all he said was 'I really like you guys.'"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 287 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

she looks like a goat there

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

a foxy goat

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

a secret shame

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

goatfucker

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Calum to thread!

― scott m (mcd), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Tolbert had the best line re: the Charlotte expansion team... "At least they didn't call them the Johnsons. Imagine what the mascot would be!"

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

What, Tom Tolbert?

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Aaron W OTM

What? The goatfish or about what's good about ILM vs. print media? I sure hope it's the goatfish because I don't think enough people noticed it.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

What? The goatfish or about what's good about ILM vs. print media?

Definitely in reference to the goatfish. Nice work.

― scott m (mcd), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

oh no hivemind irony oh no

I take my joy where I can find it.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

M Matos: You're right. Instead of "despite what the haters say", I should have said "despite what any haters might say", but I was too lazy.

There was only this:

of course, the fact that BSS is one of the most boring bands in the whole fucking world has nothing to do with it.

which might be hyperbole but sure ain't "hate".

Yanc3y: I can't believe I still have my notes, but here are a few of the sites where you'll be able to trace some of the convoluted geneaology of BSS. Seems the Treble Charger connection was guitarist Bill Priddle, and on their first album (it's not completely clear, but see third link):

Exclaim
Fake Jazz
Eye
Montreal Mirror

And for any confirmation, Jeffrey Remedios (jeffrey@arts-crafts.ca) is very personable and helpful.

(Although this post seems kind of redundant now after all that hissing and slashing upthread.)

*crosses fingers that HTML will work*

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Hissing & slashing = every thread ever.

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I forgot James started the jailbait thread. First ILM thread I ever saw. This thread is almost as hilarious.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I stand corrected on the Treble Charger link, Bill's name is in the bloody middle of the see also section at the bottum.

Now would someone connect the one woman band Peaches to this mess?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to think that ILX and Pitchfork agree that Peaches is utterly worthless.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Electroclash had its fans here. Im not one of them.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Woah, I didn't say electroclash (which probably has genuinely erotic, genuinely enjoyable music). I said Peaches.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

You'd like to think wrong then.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

does electroclash include the Faint? They're good.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.kuci.org/~brianm/ile/shockey.gif

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 12 June 2003 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

My little story from an early Peaches thread when I was still using my university address.
NYLPM Response: Peaches - "Fuck the Pain Away"
peaches: anyone else confused...
Tell me about Peaches
Articles Response: Peaches and Gossip live reviews
Peaches: Classic or Dud?
Chicks On Speed: S and D?
Could someone please define "electroclash" and make serious recommendations

Thats enough for now.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 12 June 2003 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

well Chicks On Speed at least had a superkickass B-52's cover, so I can't dismiss the genre outright just cause Peaches is a waste.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 June 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't mean to implying you were Anthony. Those are just the threads I can find off the top of my head were she gets more then a passing mention. There are a few more general electroclash threads I spared.

The question I still have is how is she related to Broken Social Scene?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 12 June 2003 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

wow my second ever thread!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

you were such a tike!

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"crikey I wish I could get the hang of this ilx thing" -

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

has anyone else realized that kid hasn't seemed to advance in age for like 6 years now?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

this is what happens when yr god

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't talking about you

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:36 (twenty-two years ago)

lipnicki's just a supporting player now, he's piscopo to lil bow wow's eddie

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"Eddie Murphy's success went to Joe Piscopo's head"--quote from some book I read

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it was in the tom shales snl book! I'm pretty sure I glimpsed piscopo storming the court at halftime of the nets-spurs game after kc and the sunshine band played.

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

that was one entertaining book eh? like the longest magazine article ever

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 12 June 2003 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a sucker for oral histories

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I love love love oral histories. what a great form--I've always wanted to do one.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 12 June 2003 05:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I imagine they're just an insane amount of work though

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 05:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, you'd have to run back and forth between the participants with a tape recorder while they all talked simultaneously.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 12 June 2003 05:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to think that ILX and Pitchfork agree that Peaches is utterly worthless.
-- Anthony Miccio (@yahoo.com), June 12th, 2003.

I do ILM and I think Peaches is great.

― mei (mei), Thursday, 12 June 2003 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

there is no "i" in experimental horse
-- mark s, June 11th, 2003.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes there is, right before "mental"
-- jess, June 11th, 2003.

Thanks, guys! I now have a new .sig!

― kate (kate), Thursday, 12 June 2003 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.nba.com/media/bobcats/bobcat_logo_250w.gif
RAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWRRRRR! GRRRRRRRRR!!!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 12 June 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I do ILM and I think Peaches is great.

I don't think she's unilaterally "great," but damnit if she doesn't have her moments. "Lovertits" is super. Really Vanity 6 quality.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 12 June 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

With a logo that awful, the Bobcats deserve Tim Floyd.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 12 June 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

the Hornets signed Tim Floyd

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Very good black coach VS Awful white coach

(owners prefer the latter)(ray rhodes, art shell, dennis green to thread)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 12 June 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Sidney Lowe is still available!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 12 June 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

also, could someone explain to me why Cito Gaston's name NEVER comes up?

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 12 June 2003 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay! I found the ads! http://netscape.nba.com/news/amex_030331.html

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Monday, 16 June 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Like I said, with a logo that heinous, the Bobcats deserve M.L. Carr.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:17 (twenty-two years ago)

And when the hell is Chris Chamblis going to get his chance to lose @ the major league level?

Re: Yancey's TS - see also Jeff Torborg, Phil Garner, Jack McKeon, any & all Ranger managers outside of Johnny Oates.

Re: Cito Gaston - you give Ted Turner the early-to-mid 90s Blue Jays, and he'll win 90 games every single year. (BTW, should I be so nostalgic about the McGriff / Fernandez // Alomar / Carter Padres / Jays trade to think it's the best trade of the modern era in terms of "ooooh, cool" factor?)

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)

You're a bunch of basketball-worshipping music-critic pretenders!

:-)

― mei (mei), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:54 (twenty-two years ago)

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